Lexi,

Never mind about drifting off course. All subjects connect to other aspects and I think it's best to explore them.

You don't make me cringe, in fact it's often heartening to read your positive take on such things....yet...

I suspect I'm far more cynical than your good self. I do take your points, however, your rhetoric comes across as a text-book preamble giving kudos to idealistic view of consumer society.

In my opinion, the only reason women have achieved emancipation of sorts is that profit is made from their participation. I appreciate that women now have far greater scope, but it seems to me that often it only amounts to a widening of their selection of treadmills.

I have a huge problem with the daycare industry, which of course solves two challenges: It provides a place to deposit tots while mum is working (or sociaising?) and it in itself is a huge money-making entity. for example, if we take things to the extreme, If Mrs A pays Mrs B (or someone) to look after her tots then GDP rises. If Mrs A looks after her own tots, GDP is not affected. etc.

Of course, I'd be howled down on any woman's forum for such views. It's a masculine trait to think of our stage societal development as something at the end of some Utopian trajectory. I'm suspicious of such a conclusion. It's happening because it suits capitalism to allow it, not because Westerners have reached some apex of consciousness...the wheel never stops turning.

Lexi that really is garbage.

Straight after the war [early 46], we went to Townsville. After a depression, followed by a war, anyone who was in the services was flat broke.

We lived in a good area, all rented, by senior people with good jobs, & all flat broke. Half slept on mattresses on the floor, while they saved for the beds, but they had a great life, particularly the women.

The men rode bikes, even in the tropical downpours, there were no cars available to buy, even if they could have afforded them.

I saw most of the men, dad included, come home on pay day, & hand the pay packet to the lady. She would open it, hand the man his "pocket money" & then control spending the rest.

As they gained affluence, it did not matter who's name was on the loan, the lady had at least 50%, & mostly more input into what was purchased.

After school I had to remember if it was cards, tennis or bowls day, to know where to go, to find mum. Afternoon tea was timed for the school kids arrival at all these ladies activities. It was only on Monday when the washer woman came, that I went straight home.

It was not expected that wives work in paid employment. How did you women allowed this idyllic lifestyle to disappear? It was most clumsy of you. Listening to those women's libbers has cost you a lot.

It was only in PNG in the 70s that I saw a lifestyle as good for the ladies. There they even had a full time servant in the houseboy or girl, as had some in Townsville in the 40s.

I found it interesting how few of us could really handle a personal servant well. When you're not raised to it is a challenge.

*It's happening because it suits capitalism to allow it,*

Poirot, this is where I have a problem with your posts. As if
the evil capitalism is driving all this. Who is this evil capitalism?

Its simply our individual choices, multiplied by millions. Lexi is
correct, we all have far more choices then we ever did. Its up to
us to make them happen however.

When I was in my twenties, I had a few dreams. One was to be self
employed, one was to live in the country on a piece of land big enough
to make a small living. (This was in the 70s) There was no way I
could achieve those things, as well as bankroll a wife and kids, so
I would have needed a partner prepared to work 3 days a week or similar.
Yet women at the time that I was associated with, took a
very different attitude. They wanted to stay home, they were not
about to get married to go to work. Quite frankly, they wanted a
meal ticket.

So I had to choose between that scenario and following my dreams and
the dreams won.

Today society has changed dramatically, as we all have far more
choices. In the 70s, just borrowing money to start a business was
a major problem. The Govt controlled the banks and everything else.

So I see the changes not as the evil capitalism, but about people
being able to follow their dreams, less constricted by Govt and
society dictates. You can choose to do the career thing, you can
choose to get educated, you can choose to be self employed, you
can choose to be a hippy in Denmark-Walpole and grow dope, its
really up to you and whomever you shack up with.

Some people choose to stay home, as you do, some choose the career
path and daycare solution. Some, like Gail Kelly, chose to have
4 kids, yet still become CEO of Westpac, up from her earlier job
as a bank teller in South Africa.

What capitalism allows is people to have choices about their-lives.

Yabby,

You're the one who on this occasion is calling capitalism "evil".

I merely offered my critique as to the reason women have been let off the leash.

My point being that it's not because of some noble zenith in human consciousness - it's much more mercenary than that.

*merely offered my critique as to the reason women have been let off the leash.
My point being that it's not because of some noble zenith in human consciousness - it's much more mercenary than that*

Poirot, I'm not so sure about this leash, henbpecked husbands existed
then as they do now. IMHO alot of people simply wanted more choices,
then society and our cultural habits allowed.

For of course within each gender, individuals can be quite different.
Some women love their careers. Some women love working a couple of
days a week, it gets them out of the house, amongst people etc.
Some women like the extra spending money, for the first wage
usually just pays for the basics.

I remember when some men got quite upset, that their wives wanted to
go out to work. It puzzled me, as to why. IMHO some of them might
have been control freaks, mum having her own money made them feel
threatened. Other women demanded that their husbands earn more,
they had no plans to go out to work, that was not the purpose of
marriage.

Today we have choices, we can all do as we please really, as long
as the partner agrees.I think thats a good thing, not a bad thing.

Yabby,
Women looking for a meal ticket are still in plentiful supply, despite the propaganda from women's lobies about how tough they have it.
However, the trouble with your line of reasoning (actually rationalising) is it's determinedly optimistic, and as we know it's easy to look on the bright side of life, if you're determined, "...great race, the Romans"--or seriously messed up.
Your're the one who brought up Bangladesh and you can't escape the fact that there are ethical issues and economic inequalities apropos our relative status, any more than the ladies can balance the meagre donations they make to charity against the zillions they squander on therapeutic shopping and cosmetic services (though I don't condemn the ladies for this; I see them as victims of the system and hardly exercising free or healthy "choices"; that's just their delusion). Even those determined to put a positive spin on an utterly catered existence, if they're so shallow as to play that game, have to contend with the patent fact that apart from delusional, this highly selective heaven on earth is physically unsustainable and morally insupportable. Thus we have the phenomenon of breath-taking denialism apropos resource depletion and environmental degradation. Anything but face the fact that it's not only a fool's paradise, but a terminal delusion. And here's where the genders meet; conservatives of both sexes are capable of rationalising anything.
And this is what watered-down feminism is signature to; it's all compassion and no rigour. Of course in MTR's case she doesn't need to worry about the future as God will take of that.
I doubt, Yabby, that Poirot, is personifying capitalism, though if she is I'd find that infinitely more plausible than your contention that "Its simply our individual choices". But then, that's determined optimism.