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The Forum > General Discussion > Need some ideas Julia, here's some

Need some ideas Julia, here's some

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The PM is calling on her party members for some ideas, well here a some to consider.

Welfare.
STOP PAYING CASH!
Welfare payments should be provided with a debit card only, no cash.

After all, cash, is something that is earned and, while there ar many who suggest it is their given right to welfare, it is not earned and therefore should be spent responsibly.

With 99% of items sold today having a bar code, this card could simply deny payment for restricted goods like alcohol, tabbacco,cash withdrawals and lottery tickets.

It would also assist with the problem gambling, as a fair percentage of gambling dollars are welfare generated.

First home owners grant.
Change this to the first home owners loan.

At present, this is a gift from the tax payer that is used once, and once only.

There are people out there who used this gift to purchase their first home, then, thanks to the boom of the early 2000's, they have managed to obtain additional properties.

Now while I don't object to their success, I do think it would be only fair if someone else were to benefit from this grant as well.

The loan could be interest free, and remain in use until the home is refinanced, sold, or borrowed against.

If any of these occur, then the loan has to be paid back in to the kitty to be re-issued.

There are a couple to work on.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 7:16:33 AM
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Did not See sausages on your list?
Thankfully it is quite unlikely she will pay any more attention to your anti poor stand than me.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 4:17:02 PM
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Belly, I done take an anti poor stand, rather, I take the view that welfare is intended to support families, when the bread winner/s don't have a job.

Just remember, every welfare dollar wasted, or I'll spent, is a dollar that was in tended to provide food, shelter and comfort for a member of society who is in need Not for use on drugs, alcohol, tabbacco or gambling.

Also remember, for very dollar spent on welfare, another person had to work, make sacrifices and pay tax, in order for that dollar to be made available.

Surely, even the likes of you agree that that tax payer is entitled to know his her dollars are not being wasted.

As I have always said, welfare should be a hand up, not a hand out.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 4:35:43 PM
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Belly just what's wrong with rehctub's suggestions?

Whilst I like both idea's in principle a couple of concerns with the welfare one.

I'd suggest a small proportion of welfare payment should be in cash (some stores don't allow card use for small purchases and buying at markets often requires cash).

Might need some investigation to minimise the risks of a black market around a lack of access to some items. The enterprising might find that they could trade grog which they were able to buy for much higher value of goods that a person on welfare was allowed to buy. Probably hard to do on a large scale and tracking of code's via the debit card should pick odd purchase patterns so maybe no problem.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 4:45:16 PM
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The only things Labor worry about is their super,being paid and winning the next election.They would not give a stuff about the welare of the country or how tough people are doing it.

We have to establish a new party free of corporate control.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 5:51:22 PM
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Yes I agree something, almost anything, must be done to stop the rip off by welfare cheats & bludgers.

Belly living in a small country community, you must see plenty of it, it is so obvious in small comunities.

We fortunately lost our worst example family recently, although they were just one of many. At least we don't have to watch it with this lot any more.

A family of 8. Mum & dad, on his disability pension, granted when he slipped on the bus he was driving. Too bad to work, but not build a shed to use to patch up cheep bomb cars he sold to make a bit on the side.

Eldest daughter, very early twenties, & her 3 kids, all by different fathers on supporting parents benefit.

2 sons, on unemployment. Worked with dad in the car "business" & did a day or so a week for $150 cash in hand with local farmers. These farmers were desperate for labour, as none of the locals would take a full time job & "come off the benefit".

I reckon they should have to do a couple of days a week on work the community can't afford to do. We could use a couple of hundred around here. They would only need a pick & shovel, & 4 sugar bags, to be filled with weeds & rubbish from the side of the roads each day, & we would get a little bit back.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 6:30:12 PM
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Let's also cut out Middle Class Welfare. For example, let those who can already afford to pay for their Medical Insurance do so and not continue to be subsidised by those who can't even afford to pay for their own.

While you're at it, drop negative gearing as well and let that bring back housing affordability to reasonable levels.

Better still, make trans-national corporations pay a fair amount of tax and penalise those companies who outsource local jobs overseas.
Posted by wobbles, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 7:08:54 PM
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tax the c02..only on export coal/gas...minerals etc
at the same rate...aas worst practrice...unless evidence of best practice..

stop giving public funds to private schools
stop giving corperate welfare.to multinationals

tax all income..regardles of who owns it
[ya know wage isnt income][so stop taxing wages

heck phase it out by 2015
in lue of wage increase[that should make the business owners happy]
and increase the consuming power of the worker's

allow all work reklated expenses to be claim ed as tax deduction
[travel/clothes/food etc]..cut business deduction for entertainment
[charge extra tax on extra bonus..[5 stars isnt tax deductable]

heck julia its easy if ya try'
but why should i care...with you percicuting me...your sure to fail

oh..and restore true values to our coinage
[inflation has deflated the traditional values of our coinage]
to where i pound of coin[pre 66]..

ie one pound weight..of sterling sliver
was its legislated metal content

[roughly one cent =- 1 dollar
so 10 cent=10$
20=-20$
50 cent=50 dollar
1$ [coin]=100$
2=200

notes stay noted values
no exporting of coin...only notes
with a note tax on it,..and taxing of overseas spending

pay the taxes on duty free
the rich still get their booze/smokes tax free
the poor cant do that...

[balance extreme poverty
[restore true values back into coin!]
you might just find some of us penny pinching [hoarders]..
dont need ya dole anymore...[not me ya cut mine 2 years ago

and still no one has come to ask why
how im getting money...[robbing banks?..selling my old bones?

awe stuff it
left my butt
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 7:36:14 PM
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Butch,
This mob presently in canberra has to be put out of office. So why are you making any suggestions that may make them look a bit better?

As far as i am concerned, the more stuff ups they make between now and the election the better. They have already put us in what, about $250 billion in debt so a bit more is not going to hurt much.

You would be better to pass on your money saving or welfare ideas to the opposition who will form the next government.

I find it hard to believe that this present mob are so incompedent. Is it some socialist plot to bring this country down for some hairbrained ideological reason? Their actions over the past few years leads one to believe it could be. Our forebears would be turning in their graves to see the waste and mismanagement we have been subjected to.

Do not give them any assistance or suggestions. Save it.
Posted by Banjo, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 7:39:43 PM
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Wobbles, middle class is not what it's cracked up to be.

A couple on a combined income of say $120K, with three kids are doing it pretty tough.

To much to get assistance, yet not enough to enjoy the fruits of your labour, especially once they pay their child care fees.

As for negative gearing, where do you propose those who require rental homes will live?

Large corporations, I would suggest a transaction tax would be a good place to start.

RoBert makes a good point about the markets. Yes, there does need to be some cash, but then, if it were made law that all cash purchases required a receipt, perhaps this would attack two problems at once.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 7:44:41 PM
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We have had a good number of threads about welfare reform.
I started a few,and got bashed by some for it.
I think welfare reform is a must.
Not this.
In the NT John Howard , followed by Labor quite rightly, bought about such change.
And have been targeted for it.
Labor is beginning to target all races with similar concerns and who are on welfare.
REFORM not red neck actions.
We on first starting welfare had to contend with the Church of England saying it was Communism.
Conservatives too thought that.
In time both sides supported it.
We have let it be used and miss used.
Public servants over looking it should be the first sacked,not all but many.
Those unable to use the money to feed and cloth, yes control them.
But we have no right to try to use food stamps,to belittle those truly in need of our help.
I find in Rechtub no sympathy for workers unions unemployed heaps more he hunts back packers and is not a person who seems to care.
My country is better than that.
A work for unemployment benefits fair wages for work that benefits the community.
Compulsory no way out, and we would see thousands of criminals now receiving it get off it.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 26 January 2012 5:16:30 AM
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Well firstly, the thread was in response to labor's proposed think tank.

Now I was referring to welfare, but let's look at unemployment then.

We have what is referred to by Mr Swan as FULL EMPLOYMENT, so, why do we need unemployment benefits then. More so, why are we still paying people the dole, who have been on this for months/years.

More and more workplaces are adopting zero drug/alcohol policies, so, if one is unemployed and being supported, the intent being, ACTIVELY SEEKING WORK, then should they not be free from these at the beginning of each potential working day.

If I had my way, all would be tested to ensure this was the case.

If it's good for the worker, why not those looking for work.

At the end of the day, unemployment benefits are there for the provision of essentials and, gigs, grog and gambling do not fit in to this category.

Furthermore, they are intended as a STOP GAP solution, until alternative work can be sought, something that according to Mr Swan and co, should not be to hard.

It is a system that has been misused and abused for years, albeit by a percentage, however, with tough times ahead, the time has come to do something about it, sooner rather than latter.

Now if my views hurt anyone, then tough tithes, it's not your money anyway, so the least you can do is spend it wisely.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 26 January 2012 6:22:05 AM
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If the present PM really had the best interest of the country at heart she would put out tenders for a contractor to run the country.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 26 January 2012 7:50:08 AM
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No matter how the dole is spent, it can only be spent once. If it's not spent on grog , spend it at mcdonalds. Either way it will still kill you.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 26 January 2012 8:11:10 AM
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Amen, Arjay.

>>The only things Labor worry about is their super,being paid and winning the next election.They would not give a stuff about the welare of the country or how tough people are doing it.<<

It just needs the substitution of "politicians" for "Labor", and you have it in a nutshell.

We maintain the fiction that we live in a "representative democracy", when the reality is that our elected representatives - of any stripe - feel entirely free to discard their commitments to us at any convenient opportunity.

Convenient to them, that is.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 26 January 2012 9:05:34 AM
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Assuming that a debit card was implemented for welfare (money taken from taxpayers and given to others) payments then what uses should it be put to?

Its already been suggested that some luxury items be off the buy list.
Should fast feed chains be on the buy list?

If not would it be reasonable to limit the proportion of the funds which could be spent at them?

Should we have different classes of card? eg should the cards for those with genuine disabilities or the elderly have fewer restrictions than the cards of those able to work but unwilling to make the choices required to get a job? If so how do we safely differentiate?

I'm broadly of the view that welfare money for the able bodied is an aid to help them through a time of crisis, not a right. I take a different view for those who genuinely unable to find paid work through causes beyond their own control (genuinely disabled etc). Mixed views around some issues, the reality is that paid employment for some single parents can be very difficult to find without a significant impact on children. A concept that's abused by some to support their own preferences but which is still a reality.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 26 January 2012 9:06:02 AM
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RObert I agree that for many parents the cost of child care can be a real problem for a working parent.

I think there should be a real difference in how single parents are treated by welfare. Those who are parents, & become single should receive more support than those who are single & become a parent, & do it a number of times. These people should not be able to decide to breed for a living.

Those opting for this course should have their welfare reduced by 15% for every child, after the first.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 26 January 2012 9:51:37 AM
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Hasbeen Tell us what that would achieve reducing welfare x 15%. No matter who is a recipient of welfare, they still have to eat, pay bills.
It is not an offence having babies, without a union.
What would a card or restricted bying achieve. What you are talking about is gestapo tactics, for what.
There will always be no-hopers in the community, what will restricting what little they do get do.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 26 January 2012 10:13:09 AM
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579,
those 15% would be far more constructive they were a reward for not having more babies people can't afford to feed. Those who just can't control their urges should volunteer for tying tubes etc.
In a word, if can't look after a baby go & get knicked.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 26 January 2012 12:24:11 PM
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What you are saying indy is of no value at all. People are allowed to have babies, and it is lawful to get welfare for it. If we didn't need more population then we would not have migration.
Middle class welfare is the one that needs knocking out. If you can not afford childcare then stay home and do it yourself. Other than that do not have kids.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 26 January 2012 3:37:33 PM
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For the most part 579 ,not RObert you are debating in all possibility with folk who would not impose the thoughts they talk of on their own.
I think I see in Rechtub and maybe another's words pensions should be paid this way too.
Let get honest, never would Australians vote for or implement such a scheme.
However my thoughts a true and honest return for unemployment benefits, would reduce first number claiming the dole,some are frauds even not existing.
The work should benefit us, not private enterprise, for that reason IF and I am unconvinced every single parent should work, that work could be selected, maybe watching other kids in rotation while they work.
We DO need reform but we must keep it real achievable change should be our target.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 26 January 2012 5:37:34 PM
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I know one of these poor disadvantaged single mothers who has four kids to different fathers. Her parents get child support for looking after the grand children which are actually in free childcare all day. she only has a single mother's child support for her four kids & that's all she has to support her pool & poker machine playing. I'm sure many out there would agree she needs more support. She can't work because she never had the opportunity to learn the meaning of the word. She is however aware that it's all our fault.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 26 January 2012 6:25:42 PM
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Work for the dole should be a given.

10 or 15 hours per week, no show, no dole.

If you don't like it, get a Job, there's plenty out there. APPARENTLY!

Now as for pensions, well yes, if pensioners don't have any other source of income, savings etc, it's not the fault of the tax payer.

I do think that if they have retired from the workforce, having worked most of their lives, then there should be allowances.

How many pensioners do you see lined up at the clubs/pubs, ready to stuff that cash into the pokies', have a few drinks, perhaps a smoke or two.

Now if it's their money, then that's fine, but if it's not, then sorry, but welfare was not intended to be wasted.

In any case, the whole point is we are not in a position to continue to allow welfare to be wasted. FULL STOP,
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 26 January 2012 8:19:40 PM
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rehctub,

$120K per household is quite a reasonable amount and the 3 kids is a lifestyle choice. If you can't afford the childcare then maybe you shouldn't be having the kids.
I can't see why I have to get by on much less yet subsidise those who get more.

As for negative gearing, renters can live the same way they did before and how it's being done overseas.
Positive gearing is also an investment strategy - not a tax reduction strategy.
All negative gearing does is keep property prices artificially high and reduce investment in new dwellings by making existing ones more financially attractive. Once again, the humble taxpayer makes up for the "losses" created by this system.

I agree with you about pensioners. I see them lining up at the Club the day after pension day waiting for it to open, but on the other hand those who have saved and sacrificed for their own retirement still continue to carry those who didn't.

From my experience with a relative in a Nursing Home, you can go from a life on the dole to the pension and into Aged Care and be financially better off at the end than somebody who worked and saved along the way.

I believe that even in the old USSR, you had to have worked for a minimum number of years before you were entitled to State Welfare payments.
Posted by wobbles, Thursday, 26 January 2012 8:39:45 PM
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Belly I have often thought the same way, but we have virtually made it impossible.

To "mind" children now you have to have bits of paper to say you know how. The fact that we pay many of these people to bring up their children should, you would think, mean that we see them as capable of at least minding those children, but no. No bit of paper, you can't mind them.

Then of course they would need a blue card, [safe with kids], which I believe costs $70, takes some mucking around to get, & lasts for only 2 years.

So mate, great though the idea is, I doubt it can work in todays over credentialed world.

How about long term new start people get a short training course, then work 2 weeks on, & 2 weeks off, cleaning noxious plants out of our poorly maintained national parks. If it was the same 2 weeks a month for all, it should sort out those getting paid under 2 or more identities. Then such hard work would send most of them off to something easier, damn quick.

There are quite a lot of mature ex middle management people, genuinely unable to find work. They would be capable of organising all this, & I'm sure, would jump at the chance to do something meaningful for their dole.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 26 January 2012 8:55:51 PM
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How about cutting some of the excessive bureaucrat pay/benefits/allowances & up the pension. Compensate victims of crime when the Law fails to do so. Those who never worked can continue uninterrupted but without my tax dollar. Create a National Service to get some sense back into our society. Most of all make everyone pay the same tax rate. You organise that Julia & you'll be PM for year or Tony for that matter. Stop listening to the experts & take notice of what people who know have to say.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 26 January 2012 10:06:00 PM
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3 kids is a lifestyle choice. If you can't afford the childcare then maybe you shouldn't be having the kids.

I agree with that Wobbles, so what about those who have their three or more kids, with little or no I come. Why not stop this as well.

I have long felt that if you support one, you support all.

If you stop middle class welfare, you will cause many to reduce their work efforts, just to get assistance.

In any saw, this is about welfare waste, not who should or shouldn't be entitled to welfare.

That's a whole new topic, one that would no doubt become quite ugly.

BTW, how many of these protesters are we supporting so they can support their tent city.

Welfare for that mob has become a given.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 27 January 2012 6:16:19 AM
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it is lawful to get welfare for it.
579,
welfare is the operative word. we're addressing permanent support misuse & abuse.
Posted by individual, Friday, 27 January 2012 7:41:53 AM
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here's an idea..juliar
stop listening..to ya advisers
security/media_mate's..*they all got..*adgenda's..!

heard[in media].....""'..pm dragged ashen/faced
through..the angry mob'..

angry mob..?
lol..of a..*media/throng

heck..look at the vision
not the tone..of media spin/devision/derision

heck..the racists got meat...watch them turn-up..the heat

its interesting to note..the pm's media_stunt
hasnt rated mention..[so far]..under racism

of course
mr abbots comments
could well be read..in that light

[as one..who was burned_out of the embassy..3 times
by mr howard..and his gg..iron bar turkey]..
its easier to see..what really happend

one need look not..much further
than this mornings vision..from chanel 9

[that shows..pm..and her advisers..plus opposition mini-star]
planning the evac...then..them leaving..via the back/door

police..[security]..thugs..
pushing away one..lone t/shirted figure
plus 4 media...staging the scene

no protester..was ever between pm.;.[and oppo]..
and the get/away vehicle...[in fact all concerned..and visable
in the vision..is all media/security

pannicing the pm...[and a thug
grabbing a bit of her yummie]

her face..set into a state of fear..
by her security...gropper

further stage managed
by public relations

to ensure
the oppo richard crainium leader
didnt get any media air play..out of
this stage managed event

anyhow
more as a topic does..or dont form
and we follow..the spin...lol..come in spinner

[noting the party hack/bloggers
and call-in mob..are on to..it]

the best..you can do
is learn from it..[the issue of rights/recognition..etc is a different issue]

i have personally hosted..5 deligations
where the nt/wa..first people..sent envoys
to lobby polititions..and stayed..*at the embassy...

[an embassy..that has nought to do
with local first people]..cause that's not..what embassies do..

does aussie govt rule..over
the us embassy..of course not..

the embassy
*dont belong..to local first peoples

its not there..*for locals

so when the local...family
ripped..my museum tent..to shreds
[to help iron-bar..and get a nice new stone circle monument
and museum..instal;led..on a..*dead protest site..

the anti racists..racists first/people...
tried to deliver..a terra nullious tent..embassy

yes masta'...
stir sir?...yes of course..boss/maam

WELL JULIA
here is a chance..
to set the record straight
come visit me..at the embassy..[lets just sit and listen]

respect
cuts both ways
Posted by one under god, Friday, 27 January 2012 8:05:40 AM
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Mr Swann has stated "Australia has full employment"! I would like to know where and how he can make this statement.

We regularely hear of mass redundancies in the work place with the result being more on unemployment benefits.

I was made redundant from my job on 10 October 2010 (not due to any fault of my own) and have been a recipient of Unemployment benefits since.

I want to work and earn an income which I need to exist, pay my mortgage, rates, utility bills etcetera all of which I cannot do on welfare.

Many of the threads depict people on welfare benefits as bludging no hopers. I agree that there are some on welfare that would fall into that category but not all.

Every day I apply for jobs, not just in my normal field (heavy rigid truck driver) but also labouring, factory worker, storeman etc. All to no avail. Since being made redundent I have only secured approximately 20 interviews with potentional employers without any luck. I beleive this could be due to my age 60 and currantly 62.

Most of my welfare cheque is taken, before I see it, by the bank which has my mortgage. Often I do not eat for days and when I do it is usually bread and butter vegemite sandwhich.

Every day I exist with the threat of losing my home to the Bank, as the interest rate is higher than my payment now. The local council because I cannot pay the rates.

Threats of my power being disconected and my water being restricted because I cannot pay the bills.

I am not a dole bludger and find some of the threads offensive. Our government should assist genuine Australians in need instead of donating billions of the tax payers money overseas.
Posted by gypsy, Friday, 27 January 2012 10:53:10 AM
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There are some here are taking people on benefits as a sole breed.
What sort of people are on welfare; mentally impared, disability, sickness, Job injury's, There are a host of reasons for social security, but they are all bundled into the same pool.
Posted by 579, Friday, 27 January 2012 12:53:44 PM
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lets think tank on first peoples rights
[all they really are due is resect]

so julia..a thumb nail guide..to a lost generation

in the embassy welcome area..is a large muril
in the center of that mural..is the cure[lawfull remedy]

there you will see the sun
surrounded by two seats for men
and two for woman[the woman side has the coolamin/stick]

this talking square..is where...julia and tony
make offer to talk to aunti and uncle

to mutually recognise each other
and make treaty...for the solen generation..
and old ones gone..as well as for the unborn

but its futile to try to explain what simple steps
lead to mens and womand path's..to a better future
hint look at the black tracks running between the mountains

one emu[male]
one kangaroo[femail]
neither who can step backwards
once they have reached consensus

then this ritual is repeated globally
with all the first persons...making peace to their own first people

we dont need your money
god gave us our own...[based on a promise of value..
just like pre 66...a pound note was a promise of a pound of silver

only the wikiseedwikigeld...[our own first peoples money]
is a promise to [pay one pound of the seed of the tree of life
[see rev 22:2]

we dont need anything from you
we will issue our own id..to all first person first people
we just require your mother[or adoptive mother]..present you at a womans circle[and the mens circle does the rest]

fe fre bank credit card.id/passport licence etc
[all on a mobile device..[built in..that tracks you..and automaticly fibnd you no matteer which oppressor seks to oppress you]

the phone provides 3 meals per day[at any of austyralias 500 plus peace sites..bed...emercincy help etc[and we apply for that govt cash to build a free peoples peace trail globally

all linked back to the ermbassy
by fibre optiic cable we walked arround the world

[the rainbow serphanmt dreaming]
begins at that gold square

let the healing begin
we got the new vision[end di=vision]
we are all ab-origonal..from somwewhere
Posted by one under god, Friday, 27 January 2012 1:55:56 PM
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Gypsy, where I live part time and work, western qld, there arentruck driving jobs everywhere, but not for MR holders. So I'm not suremif your age is a contributing factor.

Having said that, compliance is becoming a major hadacke for trucking companies, therefore your age may well be the problem.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 27 January 2012 3:12:40 PM
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Gypsy you have my sympathy. I know that doesn't help with the house repayments, but you do have it.

There are so many inequities in our welfare system, but getting then fixed is hard, as most are designed to give more to the bludger, & backed by ACOS.

I find giving rent assistance to those who have not tried to help themselves, but not mortgage assistance to those who have tried, is totally wrong, but how do you change it. It makes no sense to make people loose their homes, after years of payments, then give them dent assistance after they have lost it, & have to rent.

Another I have seen good people suffer from is the loss of a company car, when made redundant. These people can not get support until they are broke. They must use any payout of long service leave, due leave, & other payments to live, before a benefit is available.

When a car has been part of their package, they need to buy a car, particularly in this area with no public transport. However they can't use any of their payout to buy one, that is deemed to be given away.

It seems that many of these requirements are designed to send newly unemployed to the cleaners, so they are totally broke, rather than useful expenditure controls.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 28 January 2012 2:27:20 AM
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Gypsy I found that purely emotional.
Actually challenge the view asking for a return on social security benefits, the dole,is wrong.
At one stage my dad, thinking it an adventure, he was wrong, took the family to rural Queensland, from sound secure jobs.
We could not find work, but took the ones most never wanted, to live.
Carrying toilet tin and rubbish, was the low point but we worked.
I am a social activist ex trade union official and ALP member, we have become too soft on welfare.
Middle class get benefits they do not need or deserve.
Whole generations of SOME family's have never worked and never want to.
Thousands, yes think about that, of false names of non existent people, get the unemployment benefit a CRIME.
Small country firms, pay cash in hand,half wages, in the understanding if the worker complains they will inform the dole office.
I would have worked till death if I Had not found myself working for the wrong man.
ENTITLEMENT TO DOLE? it was set up for those in need, we let it get lost.
Fixing it,fairly, is a duty.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 28 January 2012 4:11:44 AM
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This is one of the most important threads we have discussed here.
A couple of points.
Negative gearing was removed from rental properties some long while
back and it was a disaster. Rental properties just disappeared and
it had to be reintroduced.
When the government forced finacial institutions to lend on both
incomes the effect was to place twice as much money into the housing
industry with the expected effect and it only lined the pockets of the
developers.

The suggestion of a welfare swipe card is a good one and the
introduction of the "Australia Card" (remember that ?) would enable it
to be used as a medicare card, petrol rationing card (ha ha) as well
as obtaining food. The US has a similar scheme with food stamps.
It might make a lot of work for supermarkets etc but in these times
the government could pay for the programming.

With the coming economic restructuring this will become a much more
serious problem. Governments will have a lot less tax income and will
seriously be after welfare cheats.
You will have noticed that there is a lot of discussion on getting
growth into most countries economies. Both the politicains and most
economists still think manipulating finance is the answer.

A few economists have realised that the problem is not money but energy.
Most of those that do realise the connection are looking for the
recipe for the magic pudding.
There isn't one and a new economy will need to be designed around
much lower energy levels.
The new economy will be localised and the manufacturing industry will
have to be reestablished and localised.

So the problem is how to get from where we are now to that new economy ?
Much tighter control of government spending and a redirection of
government interest to food production. The days of proliferate
spending have already gone, it is just that politicians have not
understood that yet.

The end of globalisation is neigh.
So endeth the first lesson.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 28 January 2012 8:44:45 AM
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please note the points made re rent assistance
uisnt for the poor...[any increaee is sukked up immediatly
by increase in rent]

see rent assistance isnt for the poor
but the rich landlord...getting the rent

lok at the slums...priced to the max rent assistance topup
[as well as all the other advantages]

[getting full tax deductability..plus depriciation
tax egsmptions..bying slums..is a way to get the poor to pay off your land][you 'lost'..money every year..by cleverly matching the income to the outflow...and if ya do it right

in the end you own a lot of stuff
stored safly..in the family trust
plus by not working [nor getting income[only advantage]
directly..from the trust..[except free travel/gifts/trips/houses car..etc]...

but no income [lol]
from wage..thus you too..get the dole

heck if you play it right you can get rent assistance
by renting it from ya family trust

double tax trusts
full personal tax rate..for corperations
transaction tax on all mutinationals..all trust transactions

and every transaction tax
over $1000-[flat 1%]

oops heck forgot
im not giving any more to ya juliar
cause all you do is take...[its pathetic]

both of ya
and you two party parity scam
serve the voters luvie..not the bloated faceless men's groups

and stuff israel
too clever by half
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 28 January 2012 8:50:49 AM
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Rechtub, Hasbeen & Belly As you are apparently all aware of the problems we are forced with under the welfare system. I too am an activist and have been since approximately January 2010.

Since my youth I was able to leave one employer and begin working for another almost immediately but those days have gone.

Many people that are the recipients of welfare payments are genuine and yes there are also many who are not.

I am a genuine recipient of unemployment payments and struggle just to exist and live. Its not easy existing with the fear and threats of losing everything I've worked hard for all my life.

If I was renting I could get rental assistence included in my benefits but I have a mortgage so I only get the unemployment benefits without any assistence.

I get angry when I see our Governments sending millions of dollars of tax payer money overseas assisting other countries when there is so much poverty in our own country Australia.
Continued next thread
Posted by gypsy, Saturday, 28 January 2012 9:08:08 AM
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Assistence should be given to our own people first. There is a lot of poverty in Australia these days.

Many Australian businesses struggle to survive thus they reduce their work force making more people redundant and joining the welfare line.

Many large corporations have and others will relocate off-shore where wages are lower and less taxes.

Then we have the threat of foreign corporations and governments buying our farms, utilities, telecommunications, transport, and most of our infrastructure. My biggest concern for this is that at the rate this is occuring we the Australian people will have nothing and no furure for our children, their children and future generations of Australians.

The government and the opposition are looking at ways to reduce and with the ultimate end to cut out welfare payments. If they do this what then?

I know the jobs are not out there anymore so why does our government keep bringing in more immigrants, refugees and the illegal boat people? All at the cost to the Taxes of Australian people. Most of them will be on welfare.

My other concern is how long will it be before foreign corporations begin bringing multitudes of workers in on work visa's to work in their industries where they will not be compelled to pay the Australian award rates. This will see more Australian people out of work.

Many of the above points may explain why so many people only know the welfare system, have never had a job and why some keep having children to increase their payments just to exist.

Until our politicians address the problems it will only get worse. The answer is to address the problems and find a remedy, not create a witch hunt on welfare recipients.
Posted by gypsy, Saturday, 28 January 2012 9:09:05 AM
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gypsie, "The answer is to address the problems and find a remedy, not create a witch hunt on welfare recipients."

There is a big difference between a witch hunt and trying to cut the rorts and abuse. One of the hassles is the welfare loobby never seems to be willing to take concerns about welfare abuse seriously, always downplaying it rather than confronting it as a part of the problem.

We need to address problems on both sides, find way's to reduce ageism in employment and differentiate between genuine hard times and lifestyle choices.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Saturday, 28 January 2012 9:55:49 AM
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Welfare abuse is in the hands of centrelink, but then they have to be positively correct. You can not operate a kangaroo court.
Posted by 579, Saturday, 28 January 2012 10:10:21 AM
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we are all..*AB/..Origonal
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=13170&page=0

your great/grandmother..
WAS FORCED..into shattle/status

by being forced..*to change HER..[abo]..matriarchal name/status
to the invader[killer],..who just killed..her father/brother/husband

how can a smith..[mother]..go to hospital
have her child..emmerge from HER smith/sonial waters
and get a child..of the name of jones...[its nutts..right?}

patriarchal..re/naming is about
hiding..the murder..of ab-origonal men..[the ancestors]

murder..then
fathering..her children
[slaves..bound into..your PATRIARCHAL NAME]

the..treasure/liesure...
pleaure..bounty/booty..of war

hide the histry..of the abo..[ab=origonal][origonality]
change..the matriarchal/name...!

patriarcal/naming
its all..a lie

lets return back..to a..fair basis..for truth
be the change..2012..promised to be
just as..the patriarchal/system
goes into collapse/relapse

HIT*RESET

do it..THE...*proper way

AB?
ORIGONAL!

were all*..decendant..
of the first/people!

them..uncountable billions..de-spirit natives..who's name
even...lie forgotten..in the mists of time

your mothers/mothers/mothers name..*taken from you!
as much..as mine..taken from me!

WE..can reset..the whole
colonial/patriarchal systum...globally

that's
even now,..so unsure...
lest that too..doth collapse

our old/poppy..state-mate
your patriarcal..susstem..is dead...

the new..*trible way..its done instantly
on your own..digetal/link...by govt audit/and gift

FULLY ACCOUNTABLE..to the mens
or womans_circle...[sovereign/circles]

AB/origonal..CRONO-
chromo-SONAL way..season

..[1 month=an old year]

...so the con...of 99 year/con-tracts..
be easilly detected...*[as each year..fast
comes..and goes]

as we force
the bad times...to fly us by...

dont count/the months..
count the season...use reason

each.month..is its own unique/cycle
each..a new/trible_year..[event]

each/week..covers a season...of patriarchal/contractual obligations
each..month..clears us..from the last year

each/day
becomes unique..

not matriarcal..not patrirchal
but equally..to the god..[4 good..of all]

a monthly/circle..
covers symbolicly..a full year churn..

to ensure..we remember
that most important

god
and his..first...*witnessed
living/creation..

[eve/..mother..of all..mankind]

see we need to..radicly change..
our biased/colonial..past

based on..years..away
from the christ..

*when each year..
is of truth..a god year

it starts..with the year dot
year one..to the good..*of god,..,
we all simply..forgot

[trible/way]..
ensures all vile
PLANNED to be done...
that was..*meant to be..blamed..on the long dead

can be rectified..by them..
lol..[trible way]..
while still living

we each make claim
to..our matriarchal_name..!

we ARE ALL
AB-origonal..

tell govt..like a mothers love...
not the patriarcal..threat/war hate greed

serve us..*all equally
not dead..multinational/corperate trust's
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 28 January 2012 11:31:16 AM
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Well heres my list. Enjoy

I've got some ideas too. I've put these to my local Member before & got a somewhat terse reply. Some of the replies I have received back from Ministers were faricle.

A moratorium on all Overseas Aid. with the exception of emergency Aid. As in the case of a Cyclone etc. Any Emergency Aid is not to be cash but materials. Eg; Power generation, Tarpaulines etc. Which have to be returned.

Money saved from not providing Overseas Aid to be used for Aid within Australia. Eg; Education, Health, Housing etc.

The removal of dangerious Additives to foodstuffs.

The immediate withdrawal of all Energy Drinks. The banning of those chemicles that go to make up Energy Drinks.

Special allowances & tutors for above & below average school students to allow above agerage students to excell & improve the standards of below average students.

Trade Training to be mandatory for all students in line with their aptitude.

Australian invention & innovation must be fully supported by the Australian Government even if it did not come from an Australian University or CSRIO.

Training on Australian expected behaviour standards, way of life & hygine for all immigrants (especially Muslims)

Training for Aboriginals on remote communities on cleanliness, hygine & expected maintainance of homes.

Training for those people in Australian communities that trash Government & Rental Housing.

Rebuilding of Mental Health Facilities to house those people that are a danger to themselves & others. The removal of mentally ill people from prisons.

Re-education of Criminals & permanent incarceration of habitual criminals.

The removal of all Political Correctness in any form from all levels of Government, Schools & Institutions.

The removal of all Consultants from all Australian layers of Government.

The removal of all Lobby Groups from contact with Federal & State Goverment.

The building of dual line railway lines connecting all Australian major cities.

The building of the proposed railway line between Mt. Isa & Western Australia (Broome, Dampier, etc thence on to Perth.)

The building of the proposed Australian Space Station in Nth. Queensland at Lochardt River.
Posted by Jayb, Saturday, 28 January 2012 1:07:50 PM
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con't,

The finalization of the Bradford Scheme.

All persons coming to Australia by any means must sign a waiyer, on being granted a Visa, that they will not claim asylum when they arrive in Australia. They must also sign a form to that effect before leaving the vechile on which they have arrived.

Any immigrant convicted of a criminal offence c will result in immediate deportation without recourse to an appeal.

Any New Australian that committes a jailable offence will have their Australian Citizenship revoked.

Make the Poker Machine minimum bet $1. Every time the machine does not pay up a flashing "LOSER" displays on the machine.

Amature sports are just that Amature. They should not be paid an obscene amount of money to play.

Minor Sporting clubs must receive more support in preference to Football & Horseracing.

Insurance Companies, Banks must be made to abolish all forms of “small print” They must explain just what the policy does not cover & how. Exactly what charges are involved.

All Australian Superannuation must be treated equally including the Super of Polititians.

All legal Contracts of any type must have only one charge, at one time, of any description.

All religious bodies & Institutions must pay Taxes.

Any Corporation that uses Tax Havens must pay Taxes on any money flowing through the Tax Haven.

A single age must be agreed upon for use in the Transport, Theatre, Law. Eg; 18 years old. Under that age Child prices apply.

All persons must be Organ Doners. They must opt out before they die if they do not wish to have their organs used.

All criminal records must be available to all police throughout Australian & Overseas Police Agencies.
Posted by Jayb, Saturday, 28 January 2012 1:09:00 PM
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Some of your ideas were great & I've added them to my list. I myst appologize for the state of the spelling & grammar. It was rushed of the top of my head & sent.

I intend to send this list to the ALP Think Tank just incase they can't think of anything.

Welfare payments should be provided with a debit card only, no cash.

Drop negative gearing as well and let that bring back housing affordability to reasonable levels.

Better still, make trans-national corporations pay a fair amount of tax and penalise those companies who outsource local jobs overseas.

Tax everyone & every business at 10% of Gross income & no deductions for anything.

Dental care must be included on Medicare.

Lower Fees for the training of Engineers, Industrial Chemists, Doctors, Specialists, and Surgeons & Dentists in Universities.

Raise the fees for Arts Courses.

Work for the Dole.

Employment means a 71/4 hour day 5 days a week. Not 1 hour of part time work.

Schooling of children in High Schools on how to be budget & parent.
Posted by Jayb, Saturday, 28 January 2012 2:06:27 PM
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Whew JayB, I like a lot of your ideas but they might need more money
than will be available.
Some are totally unrealistic; for instance I think that it would be
impossible to get the public service to remove political correctness.
It is in their DNA.

The future will be very restricted in government spending. They just
will not have the money. I think there is a very real risk that all
forms of wealfare will be reduced, age pensions, the dole, child
payments, etc etc. I even expect public housing to disappear.
Have a look at the welfare cutbacks going on in the UK and Greece at
the moment. Thats the writing on the wall for us all.
Once cut they will never return.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 28 January 2012 3:08:43 PM
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Oh Jayb, I forgot to comment on your Qld space station.
Havn't you noticed how all these NASA big projects are on the back
burner ?
Space projects will be going and in the long run Nasa will be renamed.
We will not have the money for improved railways let alone space projects.
We will be flat out duplicating the main line railways and as for roads
well once the pollies get forced into staring the problem in the face
that will be the end of new roads.
Even the US is having to let their roads go back to gravel.
Their main interstate roads are getting so rough that truck drivers
are claiming their trucks are being damaged.

How long before we see that here ?
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 28 January 2012 3:17:45 PM
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hygine for all immigrants (especially Muslims)
Jayb,
please explain ?
Posted by individual, Saturday, 28 January 2012 3:19:19 PM
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Gillards think tank, must be running about now.
Any one been to one? God they are boring, and nonproductive, unless.
Unless every one is empowered to express any thought.
Black texta white butchers paper, the recycled off cuts of news papers before printing.
Walls covered with dribble, and the few for further consideration go on another wall.
Been in hundreds, only the few, ones that WANT TO HEAR others thoughts work.
My list, while telling Australia the costs, reminding the evidence says it will not longer work put Nehru up for all offshore processing first week.
Constantly remind us Malaysia is still wanted.
Find away for Gillard to save face, but step down.
Continue with carbon tax, highlight Wilkie wanted some thing he could never get passed but that things are moving.
Stop kowtowing to media, ask questioners this question and often
*Are you asking for an answer or giving me your opinion*
Take on Murdock media head on every time.
By the way, the best idea,always can come from the person cleaning up.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 28 January 2012 5:14:29 PM
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Individual: hygine for all immigrants (especially Muslims)

This is one of those TABOO subjects. Nobody wants to talk about. (It's embarrasing, you see.")

We all have nice sit down,flushable toilets & toilet paper. Most of these people never did. They use their left hand to wipe themselves clean. Flushable toilets that may have used are the squat type. An oblong hole in the ground & a small pot of water to wash their behind in, then pour the remainder down the hole to flush away the excreta. That's why they only use their right hand to eat with, you see. (fact.)

We have bathrooms with a plunge & a shower & we use soap. Where most of these people come from they only bathed occasionally & then fully clothed & then they did it was from a large water pot using a dipper & no soap. (fact.)

Washing of clothing is mostly done in the local river on a rock, or in the communal village wash trough with out using washing powder. (unheard of.)

Now I can hear you say, "you don't know that." Sorry babe, yes I do.

Does that answer you query satisfactualy .

Bazz: I did say it was a wish list didn't I? If not sorry.
As regards the Lochart River airport. It was built to take a 747 in preparation for "Joes" Space port. It's mostly used by drug runners in the dead of night now. I had to do a SitRep on it once for NorForce.
Posted by Jayb, Saturday, 28 January 2012 5:54:59 PM
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oh jay..""small pot of water..to wash their behind in,""

you must really hate the french
they was their bottums too..every time they expel the waste

we civilised peopple...[lol]..just wipe with paper
pulp whole rainforrests..to make toilet tissue

they must wash not only hands feet face
up to 5 times a day..just to pray

heck we pray once a week
wash only twice per day

go to a bar..eat the peanuts
muslims dont drink..so you should be just fine
eating the peanuts off the bar..

""That's why they only use their right hand..to eat with,..you see. (fact.)""..

gee jay
who wiould think it..we eat with the same hand
we wipe our tissue into our bum with

them barbarians

lol

and they cant charge intrest neither
or make money from evil stuff like pulp mills
pulping old growth...into sewers..all over the west

anmyhow
lets shake on it
my hand is clean..liquids..dont soak through onto ya hand
its not hard to see..how come they invented numbering and algebra

they clearly..are too retarded
to even use computa's...right?

you dont owbn a dog right
it..likes to lick your face?
sleep on ya bed...;lick clean,,ya plate..
when its not liking its butt..[and every other dogs butt bits]
and rolling in all them other social ills..that give dogs such teeny thrills
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 29 January 2012 7:25:10 AM
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Can anyone tell me why our politicians totaly disregard and ignore our Commonwealth of Australia Act 1900?

Why they recognise and adhere to the Australia Act 1986 which the people voted against in a referendum.

Why local municipal councils are now local government again the people voted against it in 3 referendums.

Why all our governments, federal and state, have A.B.N.'s and are registered as a business on the U.S.A. stock exchange.

Why the have sold all our utilities, transport, land, mineral resources, water etcetera to foreign countries which allows those companies to continually increase costs and why they do not have to pay taxes in Australia?

Why our inalienable rights have been removed from us in our courts, which now also have A.B.N.'s.

Answers to all the above may address the problems we are faced with in Australia, such as loss of employment which is forcing people onto welfare.

Why keep importing refugees and immigrants if the jobs are no available thus more joining the welfare lines, forcing our government to find more ways to increase taxes and find new taxes.

In my opinion we have been reduced to Slaves and our politicians, banks and corporations are the slave masters.
Posted by gypsy, Sunday, 29 January 2012 9:59:55 AM
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Oh I forgot Australian owned businesses and farmers are doing it hard and cannot compete with foreign imports which the price of those imports are a lot less.

The result being employee staff reductions or relocating offshore or folding up their businesses.

Many farmers have had to sell their farms to foreign corporations from countries such as China etceters, this concerns me because I suspect that eventually the will bring their own people out to on work visas to work those industries meaning less jobs for Australian people and resulting more on welfare.

We must beware or Australia will be reduced to a third world country and be afflicted with poverty and homelessness.

All of our minerals and resources will be gone and we Australia will be reduced to a baron land.

That is the future for our children, their children and generations of Australians to come.
Posted by gypsy, Sunday, 29 January 2012 10:18:10 AM
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Come on children. You are being conned again. I'm a bit surprized at Butch falling for this PR spiel.

K Rudd gave us the 2020 summit, with 1000 of 'our best and brightest' to set the agenda. This was all at our expense, travel and accomadation and no doubt a meeting fee for all. That was Rudd's idea to keep us going untill 2020.

Julia does not need butchers paper and textas for her polys, all the bright ideas are there already. Short term history shows the last thing we need is more bright ideas from the present government.

It is just a PR exercise to let us believe they are listening.
Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 29 January 2012 11:12:56 AM
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here is an idea juliar
fix..*the huge*..lie

its worth noting..re quote
that boils-down to lies..
on-top of right royal
governer spin

with all this
platitude[ingratitude]....re ab-origonal insult
lets rub..real salt..
into the wound

my reply
to sense
[quote/quoted from]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4941&page=0

some common/sense
[for once]..to quote..

""The nation of Australia..was actually born
on January 1st,..1901.""

wether it was vandiemens land...new holland...
or simply the great south land's..australia didnt egsist..
till it was created..[or granted..to egsist by its people]..

and its people
have denied it..[..*howards referndumb!..lol..remember]

some other foreign
[colonising]..british govt's act
[australia act]...DOTH NOT A NATION MAKE..!lol

austr-alien?
lol..you are..a colon[y]

get your own act
dont take insult..its time to consult

there is no flag
described..in its colonial constitution

we still have..an armed occupation force*
CONTROLED..by a representative..of the british queen

who serve..to protect..*the queen..and her heirs/suckseizers
we teqniclly cant even claim..a flag..of our own
hence the convoluted double/tripple crosses..
in the corner..lol..of the southern cross

cause we arnt even..a self aware..
self declared independant nation
maybe at best a colony...

[lets face it..the australia ACT...had to be
ratiefied..by british govt]..see the joke..right there..

look at..who gives order's
commisions/honours..to the armed forces?

a british queen's govener..[general]...lol..!

if anything..the flag/nation/colony
stands..for ignorance

we are a funny convoliution..of states gov/generals
and a federal gov/general..who has final yeah or nay

indeed teqniclly you..cant sign..[ratify]..*any law...
but by by..the queens governing generalities/mark

[thus cant even..join
the united nations..unless ratified..by hrh]

that hasnt happend
but..other things have...[funny how lies..only grow bigger]

""This inauguration..date
was legally and constitutionally proclaimed by Queen Victoria on 17 September, 1900...This is our true birthday as a nation.""

lol..if nation we be
or colony..or collective of colonies

""December 31st..should also be made a public holiday
as it was on December 31st,..1900.""

till we direct...the gg to leave
we are a colony..under occupation..forces!

that deserves more thinking
than blustering..[spin]..by an anti monarcist pm
Posted by one under god, Monday, 30 January 2012 7:05:35 AM
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gypsy/quote..""Can anyone tell me
why our politicians totaly disregard
and ignore our Commonwealth of Australia Act 1900?""

cvause it was never ratified..by the people
[howards referndum..denies it]

""Why they recognise..and adhere to the Australia Act 1986
which the people voted..against in a referendum.""

yeah funny how govt ignore it

""Why local municipal councils
are now local government..again
the people voted against it in 3 referendums.""

as long as we got courts/jails
a coloniser..does as it choses
heck the queen..hasnt ratified even one law

""Why..all our governments,federal/state,
have A.B.N.'s..and are registered as a business
on the U.S.A. stock exchange.""..

few know this..but the reason..is
they must be..as dead fictions..[in-corperate..incorp-orations]

""Why the have sold..all our utilities,transport,land,mineral resources,water etcetera to foreign countries""

no other corperation's

""continually increase costs""
even as our domestic exchange/rate
doubles their invest-ment's revenue income?

[cause it can]..
the lie runs deep
why rock the boat[maritime juristiction

""why they..not have to pay taxes..in Australia?""

yes juliar
WHY?

""our inalienable rights..have been removed
from us in our courts,..which now also..have A.B.N.'s.""

see your in capitalised name
created a dead fiction..that can interact..
with other dead fictions..[let the dead tend the dead]

the court asks are you the in caps fiction
when you reply thats me..he askls if you under stand
thus you the living...stand/under..under/stand..to the dead fictions

""In my opinion
we have been reduced to Slaves
and our politicians,..banks and corporations are the slave masters""

the living are lorded over by the dead
[in corperal fictions][inc]...by understanding
you lost your freeborn standing..[under god]...and the dead..
took away your living birth right's..

now they got right..
and we get..whatever is left
Posted by one under god, Monday, 30 January 2012 7:23:29 AM
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