If governments had balls, Japan would not be there doing what they do, hence, these guys wouldn't be there in the first place.

It is little wonder we are so tied to America, cause we can't even stop illigal whaling, let alone protect our shores if attacked.

csteele you need not address me if you do not wish to.
I set no rule in your case, but on the rare occasions we agree am surprised.
Like your go for the throat style, as you dislike what I say I just have to be hot headed and all that pap.
OUG we are drifting apart mate, you hurl trade union at me like a rock, it has nothing to do with this thread, not even remotely.
Why tell me, do you support bad protest?
It is bad protest, stupid protest, such as this, that defames all protest.
Tell me, why did these fools Bord that ship, what was the intention.
Why do some climb the Sydney Opera house, chain them selves to rail lines.
A picket line Parliament and Japanese Embassy's businesses would Be wise.
However hurl your mud, defend those who harm good causes but ignore the damage they do and the costs we pay at your peril.

Dear Pericles,

The compensation issue is a red herring but I will persist for the sake of argument.

If I rammed the getaway vehicle I wouldn't be expecting a full payout but I certainly would expect a grateful bank to offer some monetary appreciation for my efforts.

Ratcheting it up a notch, you say; "Two wrongs not being a right, you have therefore a) illegally rammed another vehicle and b) done so against the express wishes of the authorities." but if you were witnessing a child abduction in progress and the only option open to you to stop the perpetrator from escaping with the child appears to be to ram their vehicle, I for one hope most people would ignore your dictum.

A number of years ago, I removed the keys from the hand of a total stranger who was noticeably drunk but trying to get into his car. He took a swing but was persuaded to pull his head in. I really didn't need the agro but there was no way I was going to risk reading the next morning that this clown had wiped out a family down the highway.

I meet him the next morning to return them. He was pretty sheepish when he arrived. In the very strictest sense I had committed theft. Should I have been charged?

You wrote; "Ummm... it was the Israelis who did the boarding, as did Greenpeace. The intentions of the boarded vessel do not come into consideration."

Of course, but that was not the argument I made. Both were cases of trespass, both elicited governmental responses, but you are attempting to argue the burden of those actions should fall differently yet I don't think you have given a proper explanation why.

Dear Belly,

The union movement has had a long history of trespass and occupation of workplaces as a tool in their arsenal of protest actions, particularly in the building game. Do you condemn them all or do you think that form of protest is only permissible by the good old rank and file members and illegal when done by others?

belly quote..""you hurl trade-union..at me like a rock,
it has nothing to do..with this thread,..not even remotely.""..

what if..3 unionists...walk onto a site
unannounced..

should we..charge..'the union'..for tresspass?

should we punish..political/parties..that make criminals
like that union-guy..with the hookers?

the double-standards..old mate

""Why tell me,..do you support bad protest?""

i dont..support it..nor..not support it

im just looking at the acts...illegal activity
in australian waters...doing murder..[with money
meant for sunami aid]

here you see..people with conscience..simply boarding a boat
not to set-up some criminal damage..or assult...or other murderous reason

but simply
to support..the law..

[law..govt conveniantly ignores
but that has..severe consequence later]

who are you..to judge...
""It is bad protest,..stupid protest"'

i have heard bosses say that
about unions

''stupid..protest,..such
as this,..that defames all* protest.""

yeah...lol..them union scumm
how dare they complain

same/same ol mate

""why did these fools..Bord..that ship,
what was the intention?""

publicity..to reveal govt complicity

testing..[like i used to do]..or just see
if they criminals..further ignore human decency
or..follow other lawfull process

[WHO KNOWS lets ask them]

""Why do some..climb the Sydney-Opera/house,
chain them-selves..to rail lines.""

why do some join unions"
..[to get unions to 'do it..for them''
and others say..stuff ya union..i do things..for myself

its horse's for courses
why judge someone..asking for different..than you

who got hurt?
what injury?
DAMMAGES?

we didnt charge
a british yachtie SEARCH and rescue

but we do charge aussies...
[who is intrests..is YOUR govt serving?]

""A picket line"'

wouldnt make the news

""However hurl your mud,..
defend those..who harm good causes
but ignore the damage..they do and the costs..we pay at your peril.""

im not saying jail/criminalise..judge
you lot sling..the mud

name the damage..!
swallow the costs

govt has made enough of a fool..on its own...ignorances
on too many different issues..

[ya want the ever growing list?]

its getting to be more than..all its new rules
been more..than its new taxes..for ages..

what is it about unions
that they..want to lord it over us
by governing over us..like nannies..

do as we say
say,..."who's has the credit card?"
who's DOING..real criminal activity?

Fuzzy thinking and defense at any cost will not change the truth.
This protest is a stupid and dangerous act.
That ship is the property of a foreign nation.
The act of boarding it, at sea both piracy and dangerous.
I support the right to protest, have done so with the occupy ones world wide.
And pointed to the damage done by the infection of these protests of extremists .
Just look at the news paper headlines, the photos of these Bogans.
15 minutes of fame equals thousands more, forever of the view every protest is like this.
A publicity stunt.
True extremes left/green conservationists, need desperately to understand, they must farm mass support, not bleed it away impressing only the inner circle supporters.
Facts ,figures, polling shows very clearly, this back fired.
Feel no need to offer defense for trade unions .
But lets be honest csteele show me the hundreds of thousands in costs such a protest has bought us.

I will show you, in the 1990s a bus convoy to Canberra by workers, a protest, extreme left thugs, left construction workers.
Smashed Parliament house.
Non left unions ,still today, took no part felt only shame and discust and still are blamed for the whole thing.
Protest? yes!
But not like this, not throwing bottles about at workers either.
And again.
If Japanese did all of that, to one of our crews, ships?
Defending the indefensible is not changing the idiots actions.

Not entirely sure it is, csteele.

>>The compensation issue is a red herring...<<

I think it is a key issue. Although I was referring to the taxpayer's involvement.

>>If I rammed the getaway vehicle I would expect a grateful bank to offer some monetary appreciation...<<

My question was "would you expect the government to pay?", your response was "yes I would expect to be compensated". Now it would appear that you want that the bank should pay you.

Better, but I'm not at all convinced that a bank would like to be seen to encourage vigilantism, especially as the police themselves frown upon it. If you are seen to reward civilian action, when someone gets hurt you will be held liable. Banks have their public image to consider after all. And as far as the theft itself is concerned, they'd be well insured anyway.

Since you are stretching the example a little with the child-abduction scenario, let me take it one step further. How would you feel, as the parent of the abductee, if the action of a self-styled hero in ramming the car had killed your child? I doubt you'd be particularly grateful. You'd also be unlikely to offer to repair the car, I suspect.

I don't follow your logic on the Israeli incident at all.

>>Both were cases of trespass, both elicited governmental responses<<

When Israeli troops boarded the Turkish ship, it was a government-sanctioned action, for which the Israeli government was responsible. When Greenpeace activists boarded the Japanese ship, it was not a government-sanctioned action, and therefore the Australian government - and the Australian taxpayer - should not be held liable.

If the taxpayer is in fact footing the bill, it would be more honest of the government to go the whole hog, and send the Australian Navy after the whalers. At least that would show commitment to their principles. Letting Greenpeace do their dirty work, then slipping them a few quid after the event, seems a bit tacky.