I think as an opinion site it would be remiss not to mention somewhere on OLO the sad passing of one of the most fearlessly opinionated people whom I have had the pleasure of enjoying for many years.

Many here admire well argued and articulate opinion and the 'Hitch' was arguably the best in the business. Holding positions on issues like the Iraq war with which I strongly disagreed, nonetheless  under his husbandry they never appeared untenable though some undoubtably were.

Certainly flawed in many ways, some obviously contributing to his early demise, in Hitch they just seemed to highlight genius.

The verse he quoted at his father's funeral from Philippians is at least as appropriate here;

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there by any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

His work has helped me to do just that.

Salman Rushdie wrote "Goodbye, my beloved friend. A great voice falls silent. A great heart stops."

A great heart indeed.

Dear csteele,

Thank You for this thread.

Christopher Hitchens did die a tad too soon - at
62. May he Rest in Peace.

He's been described as "An Oxford-educated British snob.
A hard-partying literary figure. A one-time Trotskyite.
And over the past decade a disgraceful fan of the Iraq
War."

He popularized the term "Islamofascist" but he wasn't
too kind to the Pope either. And he died a confirmed
atheist. He wasn't dead for more than an hour when
the attacks on him started in the media. But that was to
be expected for such a controversial figure as Hitchens.
After all let's not forget that there were some who
called Mother Theresa a "thieving, fanatical, Albanian dwarf!"

I haven't read his, "God is not Great. How religion poisons
everything." I probably will eventually. However, I must admit
that I did find it very entertaining listing to Hitchens
debating learned and religious figures on the Bible, Hell,
and Jesus. Even though as one writer stated - Hitchens
in typical British style swung between "socialism and fine
champagne," I concur - the guy did indeed have style!

cont'd ...

Again apologies for the typo.
"listing," should read - "listening."

Yes ... indeed, thank you!

Yes thanks and hat off to him.
Thank you for the thread.
The world needs more of him.

Yes, it's a very sad day, we have lost a provocative thinker and 'opinionator'.

And I've just discovered that another hero of mine, Manning Marable, an outstanding writer in African-American politics and society, died back in April, just days before his book on Malcolm X came out.

Two of the best, gone before their time.

There is another name worth mentioning:

Sir Zelman Cowen, our 19th Governor-General who passed away
on the 8th December 2011 at the age of 92, after having
struggled with Parkinson's for many years. He was appointed
Governor-General by Malcolm Fraser, after the sacking
of the Whitlam Government in December 1977 and he served
honourably in that office for 4 and a half years - until
July 1982. Sir Zelman was given a state funeral at the
Temple Beth Israel Synagogue in Melbourne.

He shall be missed greatly by not only his family but by
all who had the privilege of knowing him.

"Baruch dayan ha'emet."

Dear Lexi,

Sir Zelman certainly deserves to be honored and his passing acknowledged yet at 92 it doesn't have the tragedy of Hitchens' early death. Thirty years younger with a relatively new family one can only lament the loss to them of his love and to all of us of his intellect. I was looking forward to the civilizing and humbling influence raising children would have undoubtably had on his perspective. Instead it was impending death that served to "focus one's mind".

Joe Bageant was another taken from us far too early just last March.

It is hard to dispel the sense that both were only just hitting their prime.

Both towered mightily over the best of our politicians. Not that their ideas ever calcified. Hitchens' move from the left to the right is well documented but few would ever label it a 'flip-flop'.

Once when asked if he missed his 'Trotsky' days he said 'like an amputee misses his arm'.

Missing the bastard already damnit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo6a-GQchdg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7izJggqCoA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Dear csteele,

The loss of a life is certainly felt accutely by
one's family and friends. Especially by a life
lost at a relatively younger age. My father
died of a massive coronary at the age of 52.
A family friend at the age of 20. Death comes when
we least expect it. No matter how prepared we think
we are if the person happens to be older and ill.
It still comes as a shock at the time.

Still, I remember reading somewhere that - to mourn
too long for those we love is self indulgent -
But to honour their memory with a promise to live
a little better for having known them, gives purpose
to their life and some reason for their death.

Dear Lexi,

Thank you for the sympathetic words but I'm inclined to let the black dog have a nibble as I think it would be a fitting tribute, that and a stiff whiskey or rather scotch.

My father didn't make 50 and identifying his body while still a teenager was one of life's more formative experiences. 

I remember at the age of 20 being informed that a 'cold solid nodule' on my thyroid indicated I likely had an aggressive cancer with the expected survivability to five years of 5%.

I knew exactly what the Hitch was talking about when he spoke of his diagnosis focussing the mind yet I didn't face the utter dispair of leaving behind a wife and children.

I like this quote from him;

"A life that partakes even a little of friendship, love, irony, humour, parenthood, literature, and music, and the chance to take part in battles for the liberation of others cannot be called 'meaningless' except if the person living it is also an existentialist and elects to call it so. It could be that all existence is a pointless joke, but it is not in fact possible to live one's everyday life as if this were so."

Perhaps we should be permitted, on the rare occasions like these, to wallow for a brief moment in the contemplation it just might.

Dear csteele,

Wallow away - we're all entitled to do so when
life becomes difficult - However, I don't imagine
that you'll dwell on it for too long.

I remember the shock I got when I was diagnosed with
bowel cancer sometime back - and I made the mistake
of sharing the devastating news with strangers -
because I was advised by my doctor to do so. Well I
was attacked mercilessly by someone who accused me
to be looking for sympathy. I wasn't. I simply for
looking for help in how to deal with what I was going
through at the time. But that's history now. I've
been in the clear for the past five years - and hopefully
it will continue that way. I do have some minor problems
still - but I can deal with those.

You're right - reflection does serve a very useful purpose -
and it does help at a time when you need it the most.

I hope I can be forgiven, for answering Lexis last post.
Look I was here, saw the whole thing.
It was raw,what appeared to me hate directed at Lexi.
I shudder still at the things said.
I can think of not one poster who I would not give my total support to under those conditions.
NO ONE.
Lexi now you have spoken of the nature of your illness I as always wish you well.
Until last Monday, it looked like that was my problem.
It may still be but I now know the dreadful pains and such came via a tiny little mozzie, and that time will make it better.
I often clash with some but think every single poster, no exceptions, would never go as low as that thread did.
We however can not ignore the poster may not have been in control.
Others we know here are sick too, I am sure each of us wishes them the very best.
Do not be concerned for me,what can be beaten will be what can not is just another lost fight, life brings them to us all.

Dear Belly,

As I said earlier - you take care of yourself.

I've just had a conversation with a girlfriend who's overseas.
She has some very tricky operations performed to remove
tumours from her brain. She's doing fine - but she told me
that her family won't be able to spend Christmas with her
this year (for a variety of reasons). She's rather upset -
and made the remark - "I hate it when people turn up at
someone's funeral and cry and weep and say how much they
miss that person, but heck why didn't they appreciate them
while they were still alive? I need my children now - but
I'll bet they'll all be there at my funeral."

I tried to comfort her - but I don't think it did much good.

i know its futile to try to comfort athiests
and certainly can imagine the frustrations of mr ditckins
now he realises he has..oh so eloquently missled...so many
what in heaven is he now to do with his guilt

he clearly is abouve inteligence..etc
if he lived a moral life he is assured his place in heaven by his avoiding of doing bad..[but on the other hand,,he has decieved even innocent children...away from their father..god]..

there is little to say
and he is too dedicated a figure head of athism..for any to take his after death communications seriously..so the guy has installed himself into a personal hell..

he who was given so much
did so little

but heck dont speak ill of the dead
but heck by his own measure he cant hear
bet he now fervantly wishes that were true

you faithfull cant even pray for him
its so hard on you...who reject the all living
all gracefull loving good...

yep he is dead..
now what]

nothing
the life energy..essence that he yet is..cant be destroyed
but to those who claim to have loved him..he is now nuthin
yet you still hold sacred his words

look what adults chose to believe
is neither here nor there...but those
who decieve others away from the good/grace/mercy..of god...[not religeon..its not the same thing]...well their enduring life has become a living hell

and god didnt judge that
nor any others..its a curse
he now uttters upon himself

simply because he presumed much;..of what he put
his anti/faith in..to be right..when much..is provably wrong..

[he is forgiven..but cant forgive himself
or those..who decieved him]

Lexi/OUG Thanks Friends.
I understand your Friend Lexi, so much about human nature is like that.
Keep showing you are better than that.
In fact sneak a letter to those who need to help her!
OUG fear not my Friend, Like the subject of this thread, saw the ABC repeat of an interview last night, what a loss!
I made my own road,inch by inch assisted in my mind by my understanding.
An understanding I MUST be accountable for my life.
And understand my what you would call sins, I do, wish [no buried bones] I had been kinder more understanding, some times firmer.
I will sail in to my future no matter what it is all flags flying.
And I am ok.
I want no harm to religions,but think while very many need a belief to prop them up.
Humanity, is advancing,in most cases away from religion, and that once it gains its legs, we may just be one.
So maybe this never again believer still understands some of those rules to live by are Worth while.

its ok belly..to walk away from religeon
but thats no excuse to walk away from god

[no matter how clever the religeon or science peers are
they in the main put forth their facts...that others must take on trust

wether you wear a dress or a lab coat
none can prove nor disproove that they did it
no proof of god..[except every little bit of creation
and the fact that we live..and we know science didnt do it]

but smooth talkers can convince us of many things
earlier it was said...'he was the best in the business''
and business it is

its about getting your followers
then selling them your books[books so long no one[or few]..can read them..when god is as simple as love..[a child can know that..and be right]

if its not l;ove..if its nmot gracefulll..if its not mercyfull..its not of god...[god sustains us all our very lives..and want nothuing from us but to try to love neighbour..to try to be good/mercyfull/gracefull..full stop

god dont care about cash..nor want a share
nor say buy my clever book...or sit on your bumb till it goes numb

god simply wants us to try to love others
cause he alone loves us all..[yes even hitchkids]
god alone dont threaten..god alone knows there are 'no just wars'

those who judge god
or claim he judges us
well their both wrong

being wrong dont mean they are bad
only wrong

the trouble is many get blessings
have high claim..hold high talents
those who use those talents to abuse others
well after 'death'..they get given yet more..of the same
justy like those who tried to love others..get more of that same

thing is till we get the full facts
why judge anything..why throw out any possability
god dont..so why should we

things we judge evil [bad things]..isnt a proof of no god
the good things we try to do to minimise bad affect..is closer to the good of god...but only god is all good

what we think we believe
is simply belief...[its by our works others will sek to judge us]

Dear OUG,

Thank you, you have cheered me up considerably with thoughts of how the Hitch would have replied to your pontifications.

Probably with the missive 'This is my death now just Fxxx Off'!'.

You might need to the explain the morality of seeking comfort in the imagined discomfort of another.

But then moral bankruptcy is the price exacted from those who would worship a deity that orders any contrarian to face hell and damnation.

I think you have eloquently made Hitchens' case.

Blowing raspberries at the dead compared to allowing ones self to be waterboarded speaks volumes about the relative moral conviction required for either act, although admittedly Hitchens happily indulged in both.

Again thank you.

Dear csteele,

Richard Dawkins interviewed Hitchens before his death
and wrote that the man was too complex to be placed
on a single left-right dimension. Dawkins said that
Hitchens was "unclassifiable." That even in his last
days Hitchens shone his relentless light on "uncomfotable
truths."

As Dawkins points out Hitchens will live on, alongside
other secular giants - Bertrand Russell, Thomas
Paine, David Hume.

Dear Lexi,

He might possibly be remembered 'alongside other secular giants - Bertrand Russell, Thomas Paine, David Hume' or maybe not, but what made him special to many of us was the fact he was our secular giant, or at least of our time, making sense of our world and its problems.

We learn today of the death of North Korean leader Kim Jong-il. Hitchens often compared him to the thought of an all seeing, all knowing, judgmental God, demanding absolute, unquestioning devotion from his subjects.

The death of a tyrant. What a fitting sendoff.

I find myself amused by the idea he, and I lost something in not beleiving in a God.
I understand some just NEED to believe.
And I know great good can come for the truly down and out, in real pain, by finding some thing to believe in.
But this man was living proof to me at least each of us travels on a journey in life its self.
He was unafraid to have come from the very left,and end supporting Bush.
He refused the cloak of diplomacy and said just what he thought.
Do not write us off OUG we may be the vanguard of a new reason, an understanding humanity alone is responsible for our actions .

cs quote..""'I think you have eloquently made Hitchens' case.""

thats funny
i can bel;ieve he is even now telling the spirits""This is my death now just Fxxx Off'!'."'

lol

them saying but hitch
your not dead

hitch says [eloquently]

look im right
yoiur wrong

im dead
now go away and leave me 'be dead'

but hitch ol mate
your not dead

so i will leave him to eloquently make his own point
he dont need me making it for him

so guys get over it
he is dead...lol

""You might need to the explain
the morality of seeking comfort in the imagined discomfort of another.""

see how your saying things i didnt say

those who know of gods love
arnt serviong god..if they say cccccrap like that

only demons seek to give 'dis-comfort' to others
any so called xtian[or arab..or jew]..that says that
dont know the good of god of which they claim to speak

but they are feree to believe or disbelieve
untill they eloquently destroy OTHERS beliefs

like hitchkids did
to many too gullable to get rid of..their wrong ideas re god

you believe or disbeieve
its your right..but to decieve others into disbelief
[eloquently..as hitch kids did...welll i will let him now speak for himself]

oh he is dead
so no god..how did that workout for him?

its little use being so sure
if he is wrong[but cant come back to explain it..[eloquently]

""But then moral bankruptcy
is the price exacted from those who would worship a deity
that orders any contrarian to face hell and damnation.""'

he is in hell
but heck thats where his peers will be

he wouldnt call it hell
he just dont know different
all he knows is they love him

besides there is no hell
[because anyones sin isnt real...its only judgment of others

god dont judge
why should we

its the web of lies
that catches out..only themselves

Dear OUG,

What Mr Hitchens so stridently objected to was the imposition of one person's system of belief on another. It was for this reason he was so reactionary against those judge and decry, claiming to know the mind of their God.

He often said people were quite within their rights to believe what they wanted to just not to come knocking on his door, or into his children's school, or into his marriage.

You my friend have come knocking into his death and as such are deserving of rebuke, if only in his name.

“he has decieved even innocent children...away from their father..god”...“bet he now fervantly wishes that were true”...”he is in hell but heck thats where his peers will be”.

But perhaps Lexi's wish for the Hitch, that he rest in peace, might well be a form of damnation.

So UOG blaze away since if immortality really does only exist until ones name is uttered for the last time, like the last ember of a funeral pyre, you are doing your bit to fan the flames and keep him from that very damnation.

By the old Campaspe River, where the breezes shake the grass,
There's a row of little gravestones that the stockmen never pass,
For they bear a crude inscription saying, "Stranger, drop a tear,
For the Cuff and Collar players and the Geebung boys lie here."
And on misty moonlit evenings, while the dingoes howl around,
You can see their shadows flitting down that phantom polo ground;
You can hear the loud collisions as the flying players meet,
And the rattle of the mallets, and the rush of ponies' feet,
Till the terrified spectator rides like blazes to the pub -
He's been haunted by the spectres of the Geebung Polo Club.

During a little sojourn into the above Banjo offering I found myself wondering whom of the other spectres Hitchens might be gathering around himself to help the house warming (not with UOG type of heat we hope).

My guess for one of the first on the list would be Hunter S Thompson.

From slate.com “And there, at the very fringe of habitation, was Owl Farm and its genial proprietor, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson. Once inside these well-armed precincts, I could drink and smoke and ingest any damn thing I liked. I finished a fairly long evening by doing some friendly target-practice, with laser-guided high-velocity rifles, in the company of my host. “

Joe Bagaent would have to have been a starter one would think. And Churchill.

And of course all the drinking philosophers... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlwPxF8_mKU

Would Jesus might get a gunsey, if only for his skill with the transforming H2O?

The thump of the lectern, the clink of the glass, the clouds of smoke and the bawdy limericks (only when Jesus was out of the room), would undoubtedly serve to keep the botherers at bay.

Any others?

no one gets eternal damnation..[its a simple truth]
there are people who have done the most vile things...here
who have revaluated their love of the material and spiritual 'sins'
and who have moved on...[gone and sinned no more']

the parrable of the long lost son..reveals the joy in heaven
when one 'sees the light'..and turns their back on selfishness
and turns their heart to the well being of others

no one can be *FORCED>>!...to do the right thing
one must in their own mind realise their own errors
before one can..be reborn..into the light

see hate has the need of a more dense/material like body
that obsures their 'god within'..[their inner life glow]
as we evolve spiritually...we moult off these more dense bodies
till we finally earn...[via l-earning]..the higher body..our better works have allowed to be revealed

hitch kids [into unbelief]...didnt earn his lower standing
by having his beliefs..or even in living them..he compounded them by subverting gods kids away from their father

thats not to say they wouldnt have rejected the fathers love by themselves..but he lit their way into greater darkness

so being wise...has that burden...
on top of the 'more..[of the same as we gave]..shall be a given..

i have no doudt even now he is recanting his wisdom
as vague echo's in hell...and even now is finding the light
and calling it good..[god]

we have cleverly had linked together many myths
santa claws/jesus birthday...a god like seeing everything eye [santa]
jusding good from bad..[a thing the real god dont do]...he dont judge anyone

and if we only tried to be like good [god]
how easy our lives could be

of course the lies..are lies

regardless of wether they are good ol-white lies
or the darkest black lies..its the subverting
of others freewill..thats the mortal sin
injury extracts other guilts

but these all come from within
as we realise that we do to the least[outside]
we do it the within..inside every living 'being'..sustaining us ALL our lives..

I love this poem by Langston Hughes.
I think that Christopher Hitchens would like it as well:

"Dear lovely death
That taketh all things under wing -
Never to kill -
Only to change
Into some other thing
This suffering flesh,
To make it either more or less,
Yet not again the same -
Dear lovely death, Change is thy other name."

Lexi,

"Change is thy other name"....

We have a beautiful tree at the rear of our garden. It was planted as a sapling on the grave of our much loved cat. It has grown tall and strong and now bestows shade and delight whenever we venture to that part of the garden.

We know it as the "Sammy tree".

Dear Poirot,

How lovely and what a beautiful legacy.

I have only just discovered The Forum and thought it looked like an interesting site. As a great long time fan of Christopher Hitchens, I decided to read this thread and register as a contributor. I now have only one question --- Dear "one under god", what on Earth are you talking about?

Dear favern,

Welcome to both the thread and the forum.

Admittedly are occasions when I have felt UOG clearly deserved a clip around the ears for his stream of consciousness offerings but there are times when patient deciphering can bring great rewards. Like all of us he has his good and bad days but it would be fair to say with UOG they can be quite amplified.

Not only that they can be quite fun.

His hitch-post
about the post-hitch

Conjures thought
of the Soc-rat-tease

Instead of pleading
About the youth 
he was misleading

ordered a mug 
of hem- mock-please

Now pour Christopher
Piss-tofu-r
Sunk with his ciggies and scotch
To the arms of his dancer
His necromancer

Now close the door
To see him no more
Infect our young
With that acerbic tongue

1 under God
Could be pain-fully to sit on [upon]
An infinity would be better
For his derri-eter.

Dear UOG,

Sincere flattery.

Dear csteele,

Thank you for a most lucid translation of the thoughts of "one under god!" The veils have been lifted from my eyes, and to quote John Keats

"Then I felt like some watcher of the skies
when a new planet swims into his ken;
Or like stout Cortez when with eagle eyes
He star'd at the Pacific --- and all his men
Look'd at each other with a wild surmise ---
Silent upon a peak in Darien."

To be totally honest, I think your effort at paraphrasing "one under god" has outdone the original!

I read that this poem is a Petrarchan sonnet, divided into an octave and a sestet, with a rhyme scheme of a-b-b-a-a-b-b-a-c-d-c-d-c-d.

How does one classify the work of UOG, or does it transcend earthly categorization?

He did do some nice rhyming work at my request in a past thread that I thought was quite good, especially where he broke free from that stricture in his delivery and let fly au naturale, with a sweeping visceral panache.

Thanks for the thread (csteele), it goes well with my red!

Dear Luciferase,

For the Petrarchan can I give you Voulez Vous, Super Trooper, The Visitors?

Pre-digital though.

Sorry, may I blame that on the red?

To classify UOG, mmm, on a bad day when form completely subsumes function...scat bordering on crimp.

On a good day when the reverse is true... Sublime.

Dear favfern,

To appreciate Hitchens and verse it is hard to go past this little snippet from a talk with Julian Morrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J79iHBgb6FY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Forward to 2:00. I suspect the sound man may have been catholic.

Excellent interview clip, csteele! Hitchens at his irreverent best. Shame about the sound. It was OK until he got to the one about the Bishop of Birmingham.

Dear csteele,

I trust that you won't mind my mentioning another
name on your thread. It would be remiss of me not to,
seeing as we're mentioning other names.

It's - C.J. MORGAN.

C. J. Morgan - was a regular poster on
OLO. He passed away from pancreatic cancer -
a few months ago. C.J. always wished everyone
a "Happy Saturnalia," every year. (CJ was actually
born on Christmas Day) . I'm sure many would
remember him. I regard it as a privilege to have shared
cyberspace with him and count him as a friend.

Thinking of you C.J. and Missing You Heaps.

Lexi good on ya mate!
I miss him too.
We started as mates but it may not have been how he thought of me in the end.
This thread has me visiting and enjoying it every day.
I too welcome our new poster and thank csteele for it.
Not a shadow of this bloke little toe, but like he traveled the road from very far left.
To not far from the rights first fence.
A trip we make, most of us, in life as we grow.
CJM RIP.

Dear Lexi,

A perfectly appropriate mention in my book.

My own absences from the forum for extended periods has seen his passing slip by me so your post has served two purposes.

I did a quick review of his posting record and the number of [Deleted post}s and [Poster suspended]s I think would have had the Hitch nod approvingly.

I shall remember him on the occasion of my first suspension if and when it comes.

I have been reflecting on what makes someone like Christopher Hitchens so popular. I mean to be quite truthful I would not normally warm to such a smug, bullying, cocksure,  private school, Oxford educated, condescending, Pommy prig. But after a while I certainly did in his case.

I think many American voters are going through the same process with a certain Republican Presidential nominee namely Dr Ron Paul.

Even Libs like Cenk on the Young Turks can not help themselves.
http://youtu.be/iGPDTkeYjFs

I'm not wanting to directly compare the two because that in reality is impossible, particularly in Paul's case because it is such a small pool. However there is a quality I think that both have or had in Christopher's case, that has the rest of us thinking 'I really don't think they are the least bit interested in pulling the wool over my eyes'. 

Some of the words and phrases that come to mind are consistency, straightforwardness, telling it like it is, not beholden to others, conviction, honesty.

Don't get me wrong I am with Cenk in believing Ron Paul has some appalling policies, further Hitchens' lurch to the right, while understandable, left me vehemently disagreeing with him of certain issues.

But one can't help but feel that both are treating us as they themselves would like to be treated, with openness and a degree of respect, prepared to champion for the rest of us. This is why they are were able to garner such ardent followers.

And yes I'm sure that such things were probably once said about Hitler and Mussolini, and even Gaddafi and Saddam. Oh it is a fine line sometimes.

I think part of it is the ability to not put on a mask with the makeup.
It can be said for 99% politics is about looks, showman ship.
Selling ones self,that different manufactured self.
I will consider us a better world if we ever elect a rude but honest ugly person to lead because he/she has the best policy's and we know they are not no core.
Ron Paul will see his run stop after early promise, America votes for stars.
And in truth? I doubt they have the ability for rational political debate.

As I drove through the quiet Brisbane traffic this morning, listening to Australian News Radio, I heard that he of the big mouth, small brain and large hair (Donald Trump) had changed his registered alligence from Republican to Independent. It reminded me once again what an absolute mess is American politics. That a buffoon such as Trump could even be considered as a potential front runner for the highest office in the land makes Abbott and Gillard look like Abraham Lincoln. (To be continued)

I am an unashamed Australian Liberal i.e. equivalent to an American Conservative due to our strange juxaposition of word meanings --- but the current crop of Republican hopefuls surely could only attract the vote of the brain-dead. They are a pot-pourri of the weird, strange, and downright stark raving mad, and Ron Paul is just as bad as the rest of the nutters. I don't know how many of you have been to the USA lately, but I first went to America in 1967 and have visited many times over the years. My last visit was in 2010. America is no longer the home of the brave and the land of the free. It is an unequal society where people starve in the presence of plenty, and Wall Street bankers are paid $25 million a year for wrecking the economies of the whole world. I am still a believer in the power of free enterprise (just like Hitchins), but Like Hitch I also abhor the dictatorship of the Wall Street oligarchs!

Dear favfern,

The US really does seem to now be just about winners and losers. Is that the attraction though?

It is as if people do indeed recognize the game for the most part is rigged, they know the odds are long but the rewards are great, and in a society where so many of the successful are unabashed about flouting it, they are the new warriors, they have stuck to their guns and beaten the odds.

No one wants to be the waitress serving the drinks at the poker table, or the dealer. They all want to be players, risking it all knowing only a lucky few will make it.

 Why is it the Hitchens would adopt the country as his own? To embrace its myths and to advocate its desires and fears?

To have joined the chorus of warmongers wanting a swift and decisive military solution to Iran seems to me to have been a particularly American position.

Let's roll the dice baby. Why have all this power (read advantage) and not be prepared to use it? How can we be winners if we are not playing?

America put Hitchens center stage, he became a player in the greatest show on earth.

The current crop of nominees are there because they are deemed the most electable. Why, because they are dead against any rules that might stymie the game, to lessen the chances of beating the odds since to make it you gotta take it, primarily from others, and protecting the suckers lengthens my odds.

It is hard to condemn though from a nation exhibiting all the signs of a gambling addiction.

I remain concerned with todays America, its balance directions.
Favfern said it all.
I Am just as proud to be from the only left faction in fact progressive, the ALP.
I passively gloat at Australia's better health care/education/welfare/ much more than Americas.
Yes I am aware of the wrongs, that 80% of the homeless are said to be ex service personnel?
Stunning!
I however am not unaware of those country's America confronts.
Not blind to the equal of Americas Christian Fundamentalist rabbits, in those other country's.
Nore will I ever fail to remember the middle east other country's sharing that faith, lie to us.
And are told it is ok, a page exists, talking of those lies, even fears, that mans most important part,will and have fallen off because of drinking coke!
Yes world is not perfect America's lost, on the way down in my view.
But take your eyes off the opponents at your peril.
Syria today who tomorrow will murder its own people rather than free them?

It can be said for 99% politics is about looks, showman ship.
Belly,
Then how do you explain our present Government ? Personally, I think it's more the exploitation of the silly. Tell them you're doing a good job & they believe you & support you.

Dear Belly,

I am a little hesitant engaging with you directly because I don't think it is good for your blood pressure. But we will give it a try.

I agree with you about the honesty part. I would also add I thing the biggest driver of 'false faces' are focus groups. When our politicians are slaves to the very fickle winds of public opinion we get the awful blandness we currently experiencing.

Just as the money changers in the temple changed hard currency into 'holy money' the focus group flouters work to do the same to our politicians. They need to be driven from the place and sent packing.

Dear favfern,

You may well be right about Ron Paul being as mad as the rest but his campaign has produced some 'kick ass' ads. This one is just brilliant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfuS6gfxPY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Where is Belly?

Good question Poirot, I hope the answer is holding a rod over a quiet stream with a campsite close by.

Hi csteele, that is indeed a "kick ass" advert! There is one thing you can say about the Yanks, "Madison Avenue Rules!"

After 40 years of visiting the great US of A, I am always amazed at the gullibility of the average US citizen. Baigent's great book called Deer Hunting with Jesus summed it all up. The great under-class are kept in place at $9.00 per hour stacking shelves at Wal Mart while still believing they will achieve millionaire status by joining Amway or some other multi-level shell game!

Still, I guess when they finally die unfullfilled on this earth with cholesterol filled arteries at the age of 55, they can look forward to that eternity in paradise that the bible promises. I personally prefer that Muslim bit about the virgins, but what would I know?

I remain a happy atheist who in my 66 years on this Earth have tried to reduce where ever possible, the number of available virgins for the nutters!

Thanks for the concern.
My PC suffered from visiting kids.
As a result I did too.
No early morning surf in to local and international news papers.
No cleansing dip in to OLO.
Virus has me stalled, improving but shaken.
But PC withdrawal? torture!
csteele no problem, but I like you, like Poirot have other views.
We all do.
And would not in my case change that.
I fail, we all do, to remain quietly amused at, well strange views.
Some times our own.
No good me making new years resolutions, I would fail, every time.
I will content myself by reminding me, often, numbers supporting views do matter.
I take on my party often.
And because I love it, desperately want it, to see with 20/20 vision some things need to change.
I welcome conversations with you, like you expect we will not always agree.
But in truth we would both be bored by that if we always found common ground Poirot too is included and respected in my thoughts.

Favfern

Don't waste too much time trying to understand under one god. I certainly haven't

Lexi

What would be the best piece of writing that you could use to sell Hitch to us unbelievers?

here was i
thinking the topic over

i noted the new poster
but as i said a lot...in 4 posts...
i would need him to be more specific

benks last post...i feel is 7 days at least too late

im often haunted by post limitations
[my posts typically run 444 words of so
in editing them down to 350..of course issues get confused

96 words is a lot to take out of a reply

i dont re-read my posts...when they reach the right word limit

[im usually so relieved i dont have to edit them again
as editing often sees the word limit go up rather than down
as i try to explain..

anyhow in lue of specific questions
thats my general answer

it will be a relief
to get over the need to post[badly]
so many of my posts have been removed and deleted[at other forums]

here in the main the topic i get deleted
are new topics i tried to begin..

and the occasional reaction..
[stretching the point too far]..so someone complains]

anyhow nuthin to see here
so im not here
either

envision words feelings
rather than literate meaning