First what do I mean? it has always happened but is it good?
Royal family's wed in to enemy ones to entrench peace.
Country's divided to help others rule.
I would like to ask this.
Western intervention in to the middle east and any other country.
Something I have ALWAYS supported, is it working.
Does the end justify the means?
Afghanistan, bought me to the question, in fact it asks two questions.
Not just the one that needs no highlighting.
But [ and this may see the thread rejected] Social Engineering/religious convictions, something that stops progress.
Is it too a question we can talk about
Are our efforts in the end any chance of working.

belly quote..""it has always happened but is it good?""

allways is too general
specifixcly its both good[for some]
and not good for others]
i guess it all depends how much power you got
or how much your loosing..[and who wants you to have that 'power']

""Western intervention into the middle east..
Does the end justify the means?""

personally i say no
but its not for US..to say

""Afghanistan,..Social Engineering/religious convictions,
something that stops progress.""

oh alfgoing to town
well ol salt..there is the drug supply issue
that if govts bought it from the peons..would cut out the cia running it..[with less cash flow..they could do less 'global engeneering'[and stop engenering global drug wars]

""Are our efforts in the end any chance of working."'

our efforts....no
the powers that be's efforts
no in the end they too will be doomed to fail

to claim to be white
means your works..must be seen be be pure white

or else its all wrong.

It has always happened OUG, but I suspect it has been both good and bad and the extremes of both.
I have for some time thought Migration is subject to Social Engineering, mixing race and belief to a wanted end.
I know the history of Great Britain and it Empire, suspect not one acted any different, in trying to breed problems away.
They also divided community's, to control them.
What are we doing in Lybia, if defending human life why not in Syria.
Are our actions in the middle east [I am committed to Israels survival] worth while.
Can we get past the, in my view entrenched hate, some have for us, based on them never being able to hear about us as we are, not the version their cultural Social Engineering that sets out,resulting in out comes like this weekends.
I think, our leaders, world wide, are playing a chess game, with us as pawns.
Look at Christianity, its Engineering change across the Pacific, in an attempt to destroy whole cultures.
Many branches on this tree feel free to climb any.

Well not sure all Social engineering is done by the CIA.
Or that it is done with evil intentions.
I may well be a cynic but think quite a lot of it is going on , even some aid givers seem to be trying for cultural change too.

not hearing from our pers
i will post to try to help get this topic up to speed

social engeneering is done via tv..[in the main]

of course education as well..but by and large its done by our 'peers'
that are there to force us to con-form

as you lot are my only peers
i resent your trying to change me

OUG do not waste time giving a dead up jelly blubber mouth to mouth mate.
Some threads fail to walk let alone fly.
I think however yes TV movies every thing is aimed at selling us things and ideas.
I did widen the subject too much.
Was thinking we, the west, seem to think we can merge our cultures by osmosis and others theirs with ours till we are all that coffee colored people.
With similar views thoughts ideas.
Other threads exist see you in some.

Belly my appraisal of what constitutes social engineering in Australia is as follows:

1. The “dumbing down” of our youth via the education syllabus as exampled by only half of uni students now taking subjects requiring higher math compared to 30 years ago.
2. The erosion of free speech and thought through the implementation of “politically correct” ideology where the obvious must be denied or over looked, and with that, the denial of the majority.
3. Multicultural ideology in place of multinational cohesion under one evolving social culture.
4. The implementation of positive migration discrimination to cultures alien to the existing culture.
5. The evolution in the two party state where the two majors have no REAL point of difference or control of their nations future, they are both just caretakers to Capitalism and the 1% who control banking, commerce the stock markets and foreign exchange.
This threads ok Belly, I don’t know what your on about.

Sonofglion you are not going to believe this, some will cringe, but apart from two party I agree.
I DO think modern day Multi culture's, is not post ww2 version of it.
Those refugee/Migrants needed us, we needed them even more.
We gained more than we gave.
And from country's all over the world todays culture came.
Vietnam refugees frightened us, challenged us.
Not supposed to say that the PC monster will get me, IT IS Social Engineering.
And we gained much more than we lost, but did find some enclaves more trouble than we wanted.
Some one, I may well be stupid but doubt it, is haveing us on.
Pushed along by the PC monster we are an experiment.
To see if we can be used to breed the differences out of humanity.
Some out comes are very welcome, if every one was so we would again be the winners.
Nothing worse than putting sugar in the coffee.
But PC taunts us, reduces our concerns to racism/xenophobia claims.
We are victims of others plans, every thing we do, is some ones unspoken thought we should move in other directions.

I need,truly, to address your two party complaint.
The subject is like sitting on a bed of nails to me painful.
You and I live not just on opposite sides of a fence.
We live in the paddock furthest away from each other.
Yet we agree on some things.
It is a fact, both sides busy throwing mud at one another, often share thoughts ideas and wanted out comes.
Even a quick glance, from a blind man on a galloping horse, will see this Parliament is a shambles.
BECAUSE minority's are in control.
Come! Abbott like Gillard fails us all, tells lies and BOTH should not be near a Parliament without a mop and bucket in their hands.
80% of us want an end to small party's,I have no problems with independents but most do not want them.
Some country's have ten small party's in coalition running government each twisting and turning to get things the people never wanted in to law.
Give me two party give me the greens scalp, now I have done it!
See any reference to my unhappiness that 12% of voters have more say than me gets me deep in trouble, how dare I think majority's should rule!

Belly,
Haven't commented before now as the subject was International social engineering, but now it has turned to our own social engineering.

I agree with Sonofgloin, PC is not the problem here it is multiculturalism. This ideology reckons that there is 'unity in divesity' and how wrong they are.

Until the 1970s most immigrants had a couple of things in common. They were mainly christian and culturally similar, even if language was different. Multiculturalism changed all that. We now have immigrants with vastly different cultures and social standards and even after 2 or more generations cannot integrate.

We now have a significant number of people that wish to change our social standards and laws. We turn a blind eye to things like polygamy, forced marriage and female genital mutilation.

The multicultural experiment has failed and we should ensure that our laws and standards are adhered to, even to the extent that those of vastly different culture are not allowed to immigrate. Those that have shown they cannot/will not integrate.

Banjo as you know we agree on this subject.
While not the reason for the thread it is a big part.
I truly think, UN and some of its let every one love each other MORONS.
Are a reason Europe us, NZ are getting more Migration from Muslim country's.
Because they think both sides learning to live together will bring? a result proving Social Engineering works!
You and I on this subject, are KNOWN RACISTS AND XENOPHOBIC people.
I say we are concerned, about planting problems in our garden.
Australia.
Now for give me, NO intention to defame Islam NORE to push my anti Christian barrow.
It is known I think them both fables,we should grow out of.
BUT in the nicest way, saying it is to tell us about Islam, and it probably is.
IS IT OK? for me to be offended by those signs, those coming TV adds.
Telling us Jesus is a prophet of Islam?
Bazz, my fellow xenophobe, if you and I put a sign with just the words we use here in some country's our heads would be on sticks!

Banjo:>> The multicultural experiment has failed and we should ensure that our laws and standards are adhered to, even to the extent that those of vastly different culture are not allowed to immigrate.<<

Banjo in Japan if you’re not Japanese you’re not a citizen full stop. I can understand this stance given the uniqueness of the Japanese culture and people compared Europe as example, that as a whole share a similar cultural base with regional peculiarities but the culture covers many tongues, it of itself is not peculiar to one nation, like the Japs.

Re Australia, we are a land of immigrants so to discriminate on the basis of colour, religion or language is racist, we borrowed and evolved our culture until it had a character of its own by the start of last century. My mob have been here forever and from day one the divide was Catholics and Protestants, then the divide was the existing Aussies and the post war immigrants but there was never a game plan to turn Australia into the Vatican State or Greece, and that is what the Islamic Middle Easterners are working towards, a world Islamic caliphate.

Just to make sure you understand what I see the enemy as, I example an Arab new born raised by an Inuit family in the Inuit culture, the kid ends up an Eskimo, nothing remains of his Semitic heritage. I am not anti people but if they represent a culture that wants to decimate mine, they are an enemy, no middle ground, because when they hit critical mass we are will get no politically correct imbeciles crying out for our rights because they will be targeted early in the radical phase of the Jihad.

Just a few weeks ago Ed Miliband said British Labor got it wrong when referring to the crook cultural mix of their immigration policy, just like ours. What he didn’t say was that the Fabians wanted to break the conservative vote by bringing in uneducated aliens with a welfare state mentality, but instead of acolytes they got Islamic expansionists.

Belly ,
Good Subject - one comment .
Pound for Pound, I think the World's Greatest Social[ ok, Political as well ] Engineers would have to be the Israeli's, as they continually use their very well educated brains to try to get Rest of the World, [and with some success in Australian Government Circles ], that they only want to be Friends with the Palestinians .

Apologies for the omission , " Convince the rest of the World " .

Sorry for calling Banjo Bazz yet again.
SOG still find it hard to understand you.
You claim Irish back ground and close family ties to past Labor greats.
But constantly talk like an extreme right wing neo whatever.
I think leftists, some, would love to have the power you claim for them.
But that the true one percent have it and such as you serve their interests.
Humanity, western developed country's,NEVER excepted even Socialism.
And will not give up the property they hold.
I think we divide our selves, following fantasy's such as your Fabians.
If we could have private contact, not on the site,I with you, could start a conspiracy here, that would gain followers.
Whole new religions got started in fantasy books about two drinkers in a bar on a planet that never existed.
I think governments are Social Engineering, that mass migration is cake mixing, and that this cake may not rise.
Not Fabians, not milk and Honey I feel out comes are all they are concerned about.
That humanity is secondary to outcomes.

Belly the first of my lot came on the Brittania, working class prisoners, there because they were deprived by the aristocracy, by the time the second generation came along my direct ancestor wed an aboriginal girl (not full blood) so I have “first here” genes along with the Irish. We had a stevedoring business for generations and they were all Labor men, business owners or not they never lost their root ideals. I have not lost the philosophy, but for the life of me I may have lived too long because I can remember a party driven from the branches, true democracy. I saw and met men and women of conviction and love for our country in my home; it was like a sub branch. But I shat on your Labor party of today, but like my forebears I have never lost the root ideals of fraternity and egalitarianism, but I shat on this lot.

Belly am I speaking English? How you could discern that I am in any way hard right is beyond me. I talk of the banks, I talk of the corporations, I speak about the wealthy, all in negative tones. The point I attempt to make is that I believe the left and right are governed by the European Banking Cartels, not directly, but if your laying the track the train goes where you want it to. Gillard wants to give money to the IMF for Christ’s sake, you may as well give it to the banks, given the IMF is their bastard child. That you do not have this overview shows that your focus is local, but the rot is global.

Sorry bloke that is how I have seen you.
Now as always, your words about a past ALP both warm me and concern me.
It needs to be said, once we the ALP/Union movement had to join battle,just for fairness.
Everything, in my view, from our leisure time to workplace reform and home ownership can be traced back to three things.
ALP Unions and Migration post ww2.
Those migrants, from Malta Italy Greece Germany, along with the British Isles.
Showed us a lot.
We won the fight, and began new ones.
Some of those who profited most, jumped the ALP ship, wanted different things now the light on the hill shone from their holiday home.
Built to fight, in days fighting was survival, some unions continued to box hard , and more jumped ship.
Labor took 23 long years to understand, voters had moved.
It is in all things the client/customer who sets the market.
If you wish to sell your product must be one they want/need.
Yes Labor has changed, without it the big fella would never have ruled, never been reminded follow the voters not lead them.
Hawky too would not have won then suffered that knife.
I am firmly sure my Labor will continue to shine, every fall sees more careful steps.
Look not at us, see the shambles sitting on the other side,a sight to scare children.