So, it is apparent we are going to have a carbon tax and, there are twos and fros as to whether or not it will cost jobs.

So, what are the plans if it does costs jobs and, what are you prepared to do without should ithat occur?

rehctub,
in all honesty I believe I am morally not out of line by saying i don't have to do without anything the way I live. There are millions like me in the same situation. Those who bleed us dry & cause us much distress are the ones who need to curb their ways. The bureaucrats & con merchants, the entertainment elite, the pollution merchants etc. The ex politicians who cost us more than we can really afford. make them contribute to their Super so that we can get a decent pension for wearing out our bodies & mind from constant struggle.
Make those who take tighten their belts not those of us for whom a tight belt has been our life.

So much for the govt; putting their hands into the super funds. They did put their hand in there , but the fist was full of dollars. Nothing has changed since i have walked upon this sacred earth, times are always tough, life wasn't meant to be easy. The idea is keep ahead of the game. The easiest thing out is to make electricity, that eliminates an entire bill, four times a year. People are dab hands at causing their own overspending problems, and it is always someone elses fault when it is time to repay the debts. The shock and ore about the carbon tax is a fraud. It will slip into society as the GST or any other Tax. The country will be better off in the long run, and it will never be cheaper than now.

I will go without nothing.
Australians mostly will.
Those who do will ,as is the case now have other factors behind the shortages.
I would be prepared to give up reading such as this phantom bashing .

"""
The easiest thing out is to make electricity, that eliminates an entire bill, four times a year.
"""

Please do tell us dumb plebs how you make your own electricity and avoid paying four bills a year. Come on, share your secrets, be kind to us dregs.

579, How on earth can our country be better off with a carbon tax.

Perhaps the world may be better off with a globally adopted ETS, but as fo us, I doubt it.

Now I to am curious about this make you own electricity.

I hope your not referring to a government, sorry, tax payer, subsidized system that I helped to pay for, because if you are, that is a hypocritical statement, make your own power, cause if it is It's a bit like I will have that so long as someone else pays the bill.

Spain spent twenty billion $ on subsidies. We hardly scratched the surface. Solar panels started out at 1500 $ each and now 600 $ each.
You have dropped the ball, missed the boat, and all you do is whinge.
It is a matter of keeping ahead of the game, so you don't get hurt.
There's a gigantic surge in solar going on, but you don't want to know about that. The USA is the world leader in solar and wind power. AU has not yet started. Get off coal fired power, for your house and small business, and leave dirty electricity for big business to sort out.

579

So how has that worked out for Spain. Not well.

Spain has contracts around the world. They are in difficulty now like the rest of them.

Everything I'm prepared to do without I already AM doing without.
And I should point out that I am probably one of the most carbon-neutral men in all of Australia as far as directly and tangiably managing my resources and impact are concerned.
The tax will only make my life just as much more difficult as it would for the people that pollute more than me, for the simple fact that I'm still being slugged more for what I use- regardless of how little it actually is.

579, it is my understanding that a solar system is manufactured and installed and that's abou it, as it has a predicted lifespan of some 25 years.

Coal on the other hand is mined, transported, burned, even exported and employes thousands, both directly an indirectly.

So, if we all follow you lead, please explain to me, where are these lost coal mining jobs going to come from, or, just as importantly, what funding will be cut back to keep them, remembering we are going backwards, not forwards.

I know what I'd love to do without, leftie senselessness !

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Solar panels started out at 1500 $ each and now 600 $ each.
"""

And power was 15c a kilowatt hour and is now 30!

The old rebated solar panel on the roof trick, third time I fell for it this week.

You do realise that only the rich can afford to put enough panels on their roof to have no electricity bills don't you? And you do realise the way the government has set up the rebate scheme; for every rich person that has a roof big enough and pointing in the right direction that puts panels on his roof is sending power prices UP and UP and UP, robbing the poor of the money they could be saving to get their own panels. Stupid poor people, why don't they just put panels on their roof like you?

Why is the left are so thick? So thick they're destroying their own kind with their ideological, blind, kindness!

You know? With people like you in this world, the have-nots are better off backing the haves, the crumbs they get are worth more to them than the pain inflicted by do-gooders like you!

RM, not sure who,you targeted your post at, but the rich go without plenty to subsidize the poor and, without this subsidy, the poor would starve.

Now if a person chooses to drink, smoke, gamble, or all of the above, then they can afford solar panels, they just choose to spend thier money elsewhere.

Remember, we are all presented with an equal opportunity to fail, so the poor should not blame others thier position.

The guarantee life of a solar panel is twenty five years, panels have been operating in excess of forty five years. If we took the attitude of never discontinuing a job, we would be stuck in the stone age. Coal and oil is doomed, for destruction. As for power costs, and paying thirty cents a kwh, i would be moving states. The baby boomers are the most likely to put on solar, sometimes you have to spend money to make money.
It's a matter of keeping in front. It is the over mortgaged that complain about costs. At $600 / panel is hardly rich persons buying power. It is business sense to delete your power costs.

579, while I agree with some of your points, you still haney to explains as to where the jobs are going to come from if we do away with coal and oil.

Do you care to offer a suggestion, or, are you like the many, who can offer a solution to one problem, but not factor in the collateral damage this solution can potentially create.

Furthermore, how would we all have fared in qld last summer if we were to rely on solar, remembering, that back up, fuel burning generators, are fa less efficient than power stations and creat far more polution had there been a hundred thousand odd in operation.

At the end of the day, you can't simply solve one problem by causing another.

579 just who is giving the guarantee on these solar panels? Do you really think the Chinese manufacturers are likely to be running around Oz replacing the things, or the installers will be overhauling failed installations in 5 years time? Come in spinner?

If you really like the things, just wait a while, & you'll be able to get them for the cost of getting them off someones roof, & fixing the holes the instillation made.

Once the subsidy goes, & it will, the piddling bit of power they put out won't pay for the necessary maintenance, & people will be trying to give them away, to stop the roof leaks.

My brother in law, an engineer, has recently moved into town, after 10 years living off the grid. He had 2 solar arrays, one for the house, & one for his phone/internet connection. Oh, plus the necessary diesel generator for when the solar was out.

When I asked him what was the best/worst thing about returning to civilisation his instant reply was it was a best thing. Escaping from the constant trouble with his solar arrays

He reckoned the best thing about modern life was reliable power, at the flick of a switch, & with solar, that's one thing you don't get.

All i can say about that is, you have no idea how solar is installed, operated or guaranteed. Make a phone call to an installer and find out.

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not sure who,you targeted your post at,
"""
It wasn't targeted at you rehctub.

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but the rich go without plenty to subsidize the poor
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Hmm, not sure how to respond to that comment. How do the rich go without to subsidize the poor? I mean what are they missing that the poor have taken from them?

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Now if a person chooses to drink, smoke, gamble, or all of the above, then they can afford solar panels, they just choose to spend thier money elsewhere.
"""
Way to stereo type everyone who can't afford 10 grand + for solar panels on their roof, spoken like a true plutocrat. What makes you think everyone who can't afford solar panels, drinks, smokes and gambles?

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Remember, we are all presented with an equal opportunity to fail, so the poor should not blame others thier position.
"""
That's true, but not everyone who fails did so because of their own incompetence. I notice that most of your posts are whinging about shutting down your own business because the rules are getting tougher. Have you ever thought that perhaps people like you have already experienced what you are experiencing and have already given up? Some of the ones I know have re-educated 3 times now, only to be shafted by the system over and over again. Now they're not quite poor, but certainly can't afford the cost of removing their ever increasing electricity bill completely by putting solar panels on their houses!

What about all the people that live in apartments, or self funded pensioners who have moved into retirement villages, how are they suppose to get solar panels?

It's not as black and white as you'd like it to be, rehctub.

Fact is the government have created a scheme to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich but not only that, have created a system by where the more rich that receive their subsidy the more the poor are finding it difficult to keep up with the scam. All on a lie!

Highrise apartments can have solar. They do not have to be installed on your roof. These panels can be in a paddock with thousands of other panels The amount of panels you provide as a group, are calculated as wattage in credit. All power is fed into the grid. Small towns are installing solar and wind as a collective group, and sharing benefits among participants. No one is saying it has to be on your roof.

Vegemite !!

SD