It's okay folks - I'm not depressed : )

However, on one thread I recently made a comment about the possibility that propagation of our species is the only point to existence, and just now I picked up my copy of Bill Bryson's, "A Short History of Nearly Everything" in which he ponders the humble existence of lichen:

"Like most things that thrive in harsh environments, lichens are slow growing. It may take a lichen more than half a century to attain the dimensions of a shirt button. Those the size of dinner plates, writes David Attenborough, are therefore "likely to be thousands of years old". It would be hard to imagine a less fulfilling existence. "They simply exist," Attenborough adds, "testifying to the moving fact that life even at its simplest level occurs, apparently, for its own sake."
It is easy to overlook this thought that life just is. As humans we are inclined to feel that life must have a point. We have plans, aspirations and desires. We want to take constant advantage of all the intoxicating existence we've been endowed with. But what's life to a lichen? Yet its impulse to exist, to be, is every bit as strong as ours - arguably even stronger...."

Our intellect tells us that all this "life" must have a point. I wonder if the point for us is any different to that of lichen?

Short answer: "no". Longer one to follow later.

This could be a very interesting thread, or it could fizzle out very quickly under the weight of "certainty" that seems to be in abundance on this forum.

My personal take is that yes, we are lichen. Our intellect, as Poirot describes it, leads us to want, very much, that there is some kind of reason behind our existence.

Doesn't make it true, though.

We have a significant benefit over lichen, though. We have the capacity to be happy that we are alive, rather than just being.

That's the bit I like.

Very weighty matter.

I agree with the others.

No, there is no meaning to life, it just seems that way, because all the people who weren't driven by a strong sense of purpose to survive and reproduce, died out, leaving only the surviving and reproducing ones flying around like blue-arsed flies.

Also the illusion is made worse by the fact that humans' particular ecological trick is to think up ad hoc solutions to practical problems, to think in chains of reasoning reflecting cause and effect, and thus to make our living. So when we aren't spending our time on such practical problems, we tend to think that "life, the universe and everything" itself must have a purpose, just as living beings do. But it doesn't.

Each has to make up his own meaning to life as he thinks best. There are number of bespoke belief systems that you can buy off the rack, as, your Buddhism, your Christianity, your Islam, and so on. But these ready-made ones, for some reason, seem to love to be miserable and censorious. Life is suffering. Life is sin. Life is submission.
And so on. None of them seem to embrace peaceably enjoying life as a free gift for itself. Why this simple but good philosophy hath not recommended itself to more of the sages is a thing mysterious to me.

http://www.oshoquotes.net/category/osho-quotes-on-life/

There you go, Poirot. Houllie is going to have to read
this stuff, if he is going to be the new Bhagwan apprentice :)

I can only speak for myself.

Does my life have some cosmic significance?

I doubt it.

But my life has meaning to me. I enjoy my life.

I hope it has meaning to those around me as their lives have to me.

I even like to think I sometimes bring a bit of fun into the lives of OLO posters. I suspect OUG enjoys the opportunity I give him for a bit of a rant every now and then :-)

And I enjoy reading some of your posts.

Turning your question, Poirot, into a chiasmus sums it up for me…

There is no meaning to life, but without life, there is no meaning.

WmTrevor,

I like that : )

Is There A Meaning To Life?
Not if Labor stays in Power.

Secularism is winning out with many. No wonder suicide rates are so high. If people were not so filled with silly pride and humbled themselves before their Maker maybe they would come to a commonsense conclusion. As long as they believe in the evolution fantasy life will always be meaningless to many as that is the only conclusion one can draw from such an idiotic theory.

Thanks for the link, Yabby.

Funnily enough, I recalled that amongst my eclectic topsy-turvy collection of books, that I had one by Osho titled "The Mustard Seed" (The Gnostic Teachings of Jesus the Mystic - no less!)....so I'm sending it post haste to Houellie in the hope that it helps to fulfill his promise : )

Just a little expansion on my previous.

The meaning of life, for us just as for lichen, is to pass on our genetic material to a new generation. The question of "why" is simply not at issue, since the imperative is itself genetically encoded. It's a part of the extended phenotype that species which survive and prosper must possess, since if they do not, there can be no propagation of the species.

That's not to say that everybody has a strong urge to reproduce. As Dawkins showed so well, the extended phenotype may include the drive to nurture the offspring of close relatives, thus improving the chances of some of ones own genes being passed along.

Beyond that? I'd say, as it seems others agree, that our drive is to minimise our discontent. That drive is what creates everything that we regard as "human". It's not a uniquely human drive: every organism does it to some extent, whether it's a bacterium repelled from a salty droplet, or a plant extending its roots blindly in order to find food and water, or a dog scratching in the dirt to make a comfortable hole to lie in. In the human case it has lead to the several attempts at "civilisation", as well as art, engineering, science and economics among other things.

Isn't that good enough? What more "meaning" is needed?

Oh yes
There very definitely is.
Tell me what it is please?
Tell you what it is not
Not Individuals fixed hate.
Not runners God.
If it is not to dream of better ?

Not Individuals fixed hate.
Belly,
your standard silly reply. If you want me to stop criticising that useless & incompetent outfit of yours then tell them to look after this country instead of trying to beat the Greens in destroying it.

Hi Poirot,

Is there a meaning to life.
For me - yes. I am no pundit.
I have only my own life experiences to go on.
And for me - the meaning is constantly changing
as my life evolves.

For me -

Life is not predictable - its constantly evolving -
and each of us goes through transitions and
transformations and along with those transformations - the
meaning changes with circumstances along our journey
as our life evolves.

Humans are the most extraordinary
of creatures and a big part of me still wants to reach
an even greater understanding about who we are.
Not because I need to know more necessarily, but because
I am drawn to the process of discovery.

As Steven L. Meyer
stated - I too hope that I
bring meaning to the lives of my family, friends,
colleagues and acquaintances.

Why does politics have to be the cutting edge of all opinions.

Interesting posts so far.

According to John Armstrong in his book "Love, Life, Goethe", Goethe was under few illusions about what could make a person find meaning in life.

He writes:

"The striking thing about Goethe's view of life is how sane and normal it is. Like most people before and since, Goethe takes an undramatic view of life. It really is important to have a decent house, haviing relationships which are stable and loving and comfortable is a key aspect of happiness.....Where possible you should focus on things that keep you cheerful - intelligent people are prone to thinking themselves into despair or misery. It's important to eat well and keep regular hours, don't spend more than your income. Take lots of exercise, spend plenty of time in your garden....."

(Btw, I like Pericles' view that life gives us the capacity to be happy, which, although it is contrast with all the other emotions, is the nicest "experience" of all.

"

Hi Poirot,

I also liked what Pericles had to say
(no surprises there -sigh). However,
you may also be interested in the following:

http://www.dalailama.com/messages/compassion

I also liked what Elie Wiesel had to say:

"Our obligation is to give meaning to life and
in doing so to overcome the passive, indifferent
life."

Poirot we and all that live around us are genetically linked, an earth worm having very similar DNA as we, as an example.

But we have a "consciousness" that no other creature on this earth possesses. Other living creatures have a consciousness that allows them to be aware of their surroundings and make judgments based on experience, all for their ongoing survival, so as to maximized their chance at reproduction, all fairly mechanical, a must have attribute.

We on the other hand have a consciousness that enables us to think in abstract terms, terms directly opposed to nature and survival, we can consider self harm for example, why? We can be so selfless as to give our life for another today and celebrate an enemy’s torture tomorrow, duplicity and the consciousness to make the choice of duplicity sets us apart from all other creatures.

Why is it so, why are we here, is there a meaning to life and there by a guiding force, a creator, and if so why not give us a manifestation of their power, preferably an ongoing event that defies physics because defying physics is at the crux of divinity .

For as ordinary and unspectacular as I find most of humanity (myself included) I cannot escape from the fact that we evolved along with the rest, but we have this consciousness that no other creature possesses, it is singular and a singularity is not natural.

sonofgloin,

Yes, the consciousness...I've heard human's described as the universe being conscious of itself (or something to that effect)

Thank you, Lexi. I shall have a peek at the Dalai Lama's wisdom later in the avo. Going to lunch with the family at my mum's which is a Saturday ritual at who's ever house is the one for the week - and that makes me happy : )

Yes: 42.

It's the question which is the tricky bit...

Is there a meaning to life?

I've been struggling with that question since it was posited, in the hopes of making a contribution that isn't a cliche. As The Acolyte Rizla says, it's the question that's tricky. Knowing Poirot (or at least inferring her), that's intentional, or at least she's inviting all the etymological agonising in, which provides for a nice generalised debate (one day we will have to define our terms and get down to the nitty gritty--or perhaps to save face we shouldn't). As it stands, I infer the question to be, "do you believe in the supernatural", since the natural looks deflationarily banal..
Aside from the fact that I generally have no truck with belief (can't decide whether it's naive, arrogant or merely stupid..), I would say yes, there is a meaning to life, and I don't mean that "we" invest life with meaning (such sweet self-affirmation), which is another way of saying "no"--there is no meaning to life.
I don't "believe", but I (no doubt naively) "suspect" there is meaning, the rider being that it's probably impossible to discern or appreciate from our addled perspective.
I have faith that there are other perspectives, but little faith in my own, except that it is almost certainly erroneous.
But I'll vote yes--with manifold qualifications.

I'll have to agree with Pericles on this one. Fortunately for
us, dna molecules happen to replicate themselves.

As a species I don't think we are that amazing. A neuroscientist
once pointed out to me that there is no part of the human brain
that bonobos and chimps don't have. He used to dissect them.

So we might think more, but then that is just our evolutionary
niche, along with a vocal tract which allows for vowels and
consonants, unlike our hairy cousins. They have other ways
of making a living in nature, perhaps far more sustainable then
ours. So that larger brain might yet be our downfall in the end.

OTOH I think life is full of purpose and that is whatever we want
it to be. Its also what can make us happy and content. For some
its raising their kids, for others its scientific discovery, for
some its music. Whatever floats your boat. Doing the things we
want to do, rather then the things we have to do, is what its
all about. The most valuable thing is time to do exactly that.

Squeers,

Your point about us "investing" meaning into our life as a self-affirmation to provide a subjective idea of "purpose" or "meaning" is a good one. Happiness or contentment are emotions we derive from life - the good ones - which are only discernible because we experience sadness and discontent, etc.

The question really jumped out at me when I read about lichens...ie, what is life, and are we any different simply because we possess the grey matter to ponder such things?


Yabby,

Ortega posited that we were very different from our simian cousins in that we have the ability to manipulate our environment to the extent that we may look inside ourselves - we have time to reflect. This a luxury not afforded to other species as they are required to remain ever vigilant.

And then there is this, also from Bill Bryson, that once again echoes the question - what is life?:

"...to begin with, for you to be here now trillions of drifting atoms had somehow to assemble in an intricate and curiously obliging manner to create you....Why atoms take this trouble is a bit of a puzzle. Being you is not a gratifying experience at the atomic level. For all their devoted attention, your atoms don't actually care about you - indeed, don't even know that you are there. They don't even know that "they" are there. They are mindless particles, after all, and not even themselves alive. (It is a slightly arresting notion that if you were to pick yourself apart with tweezers, one atom at a time, you would produce a mound of atomic dust, none of which had ever been alive but all of which had once been you.) Yet somehow for the period of your existence they will answer to a single rigid impulse: to keep you you."

And that leaves out the bit that particles are jettisoned and taken up, continually replaced as we go along...no wonder we resort to metaphysics in an effort to make some sense of it all.

"""
Is There A Meaning To Life?
"""

Absolutely! Oppose those that would tell you how to live your life. After all, what were we put here for, if not to enjoy our own life how we want to live it?

"""
The most valuable thing is time to do exactly that.
"""

The wisest quote of the whole thread. Congratulations, Yabby, you get it :)

*we have time to reflect. This a luxury not afforded to other species as they are required to remain ever vigilant.*

Well Poirot, I'd have to disagree. You need to watch more Attenborough
documentaries :)

When chimps and bonobos build nests in the trees to settle in for
the night, they snooze away, relax and take it easy. In fact much
of nature is about snoozing away and even boredom. We know and can
prove that they think, but what they think about, we cannot yet
prove. You will find with some social species, some keep guard
whilst the rest relax.

Even my sheepdog is pretty smart, but of course they were selected
for intelligence. I once could not figure out why there were little
pebbles in the house and blamed myself and perhaps my boots. One
day I watched her, as she brought one in from outside, then settled
down to play little games, rolling in around in her mouth and tongue,
dropping it, up again, etc. Quite amazing to watch, she's bored
and amuses herself when I'm writing posts on OLO.

Yabby,

You unwittingly prove Ortega's point.

He writes:
"If we are able to remain still for a time in passive contemplation of the simian scene, one of its characteristics will presently....strike us like a flash of lightning. And this is that the infernal little beasts are constantly on the alert, perpetually uneasy, looking and listening for all the signals that reach them from their surroundings, intent upon their environment as if they feared some constant peril in it....it is the objects and events in its surroundings which govern the animal's life, which pull it and push it about like a marionette.....
That is why the animal has always to be attentive to what goes on outside it, to the things around it. Because even if the dangers and incitements of those things were to diminish, the animal would perforce continue to be governed by them, by the outward, by what is other than "itself", since it has no "self" where it can withdraw and rest..... It cannot take a stand within itself. Hence when things cease to threaten it or caress it; when they give it a holiday; in short when the "other" ceases to move it and manage it, the poor animal has virtually to cease to exist, that is: it goes to sleep."

Your bonobos haven't the capacity to reflect on their condition. When they're not engaged they sleep.

I used to watch the TV add for tinned milk that went "Carnation milk from [MOO] contented cows", & wonder about those cows, & what being contented was like, but I stopped before I got a headache.

the question is far too general
soi will give generalities in reply

generally the meaning of life for lichen
is to feed the reindeer...and other life forms
like moulds...bateria..micro fauna/micro flora that live ..in and on and upon it

at its next level of meaning..it assists in the breakdown,,of minerals and light into a form of energy..that susains a food source

then there is the place where it fits in the theory of evolution
[as flawed as the theory is]..we can see lichen 'evolve from moss or moss into lichen...[for an egsample]..but it would help if some theorist of evolution would definitivly prove what 'evolved'..into what..

there are species..that can only breed by other species
for egsample figs needing a particular wasp to make fertile seed

and other animals/plants that have symbiological needs
needs have a symbiotic evolution line of decent
[that science cant produce]

anyhow our bodie reason for being
is to sustain the micro flora/fauna
that needs our body for food and shelter

[its said without these microflora/micro fauna within and on our bodies..our body of itself could sustain itself to life]

anyhow as others have said
we share 50%..of our dna with a bannana
but even dna cant replicate itself into rna
or indeed dna..eg..it needs that other mitrocondial processing etc
needs a cell and a porus membrance let alone them building blocks..to replicate the dna/rna closer to its intended function

i could repeat endlessly..that life is a sign of god
that it fills every litle possable nook where life can live
because life has the qualities of its designer[its by looking at the seen that the unseen cause reveals itself]

where life is god is

so yes..everything has a reason/purpose
wether they...or we..know it or not

*Your bonobos haven't the capacity to reflect on their condition. When they're not engaged they sleep*

Poirot, that is simply your speculation no more. The funny thing
about science and primates, is how the bar has been lifted over
time. At one point only man was a toolmaker. Next thing they found
chimps making tools and so on. So they thought of another reason
why man should be different. The more you read the discoveries
of primatologists, the narrower the claimed gap becomes. This is
why I found that reading what some of them have written and
discovered to be so interesting. If you want to understand humans,
start with all primates!

I disagree competely with the contention that animals have no "inner life". I've always had dogs and I am very close to my dogs. With a couple of exceptions they've all been herding dog breeds, mostly kelpies and crosses with kelpies.

Yabby's mention of the dog amusing itself by playing with a pebble rings very true. Moreover, dogs often actively seek out things to play with, whether it be a piece of stick or another animal (or human). When they live in an environment in which there is the possibility of having an active mental life, rather than being stuck in a tiny backyard with the only stimulation being provided by the call to food, they respond by being more mentally active. This is no different to humans. Prisoners show every sign of being reactive lumps, since that is all they can do.

I also agree with Yabby's suggestion that to understand humans, you need to examine the lower primates, something that many sociologists seem reluctant to do, preferring their own "construction" of human behavioural motivations to the rigorous scientific "observe, hypothesize, test, repeat".

The meaning of life is simple: avoid boredom.

There are some well thought out contributions on this thread.
I particularly liked Squeers's approach (which is something of a first!).
With one small exception, his comment that: "the natural looks deflationarily banal".
Quantum theory, describes a natural world, that can hardly be said to be banal.

For me, one of the purposes I've assigned myself-- when I can set aside some time from my myriad of competing purposes --is to venture onto OLO and do what little I can to combat the forces of darkness --which invariably sees me crossing swords with Poriot.

Anti,

I agree with you and Yabby that the study of primates is useful in understanding the ways of man.

How do you define "inner life"?

By quoting Ortega, I was referring to the human propensity for contemplation, his ability to construct theoretical propositions, which in turn enable him to solve problems and develop new and innovative ideas. He is afforded that luxury because he is able to keep the forces of nature at bay.

Dogs are intelligent creatures who team so well with man, however, describing their playful cleverness to alleviate their boredom means that they play to alleviate their boredom. In a natural situation they would be part of a pack, and like a primate in the wild would be enthrall to outside influences beyond their control. This, of course, affects mankind also, yet we do demonstrate an ability to create sanctuary from threat to a much higher degree than other species.

SPQR,

Forces of darkness, eh.

How do you define "inner life"? Good qusetion. Perhaps the ability to dream and to look forward to things? Feeling affection?

My dogs have all shown every sign of having an active dream life, often twitching their legs or "snarling" and making all sorts of small sounds. They all look forward to things like going for drives or walks or other abstract activities. They're not just eating, crapping sleeping machines. They actively seek out affection and display it, both to other dogs and to humans if they encounter them as a normal and benign part of life.

My previous dog used to look both ways before crossing the road. I didn't teach her, she learnt it herself.

If they had opposable thumbs, we might well have ended up as the pets.

Anti,

Dogs are clever, often surprisingly so. Other species often surprise us with their systems and behaviours, especially those that encompass cooperation with a fellow species.

But your dog dreams during sleep - as do humans. I'm referring to contemplation during consciousness. the ability to "dream up" ideas that are different or innovative, to visualise and infer, and then to apply the thought.

Humans are fairly puny in a physical sense, we lack the pure athletic prowess of most mammals. We don't possess a sting or venom, our teeth aren't much chop in comparison to other primates. We are endowed with a huge cranium that makes birthing difficult and our offspring are particularly helpless in infancy and dependent for a long time, etc, etc. The main threat to our well-being in the natural world, apart from other species, is the weather - and other humans.
The overwhelming factor in our dominance of the environment is our neo-cortex and the ability to innovate and adapt. We're masters at that particular game.

The other peculiarity is our penchant for metaphysical theory. If we don't understand something we tend to invoke "magic" to solve our conundrum, or at least satisfy our confusion. In other words, although we advance by mastering our physical environment using our gift of intelligence, we have recourse to purely theoretical propositions that don't conform to physical laws.

what is the adjenda behind making animals 'huhman'
sure animals use tools...so reveal themselves to be tools too?

you cant compare a tool with a fool
to compare a long stick or a rounded rock
or rockchips to a protacter..or knowing pye r squared

we have retarded humans and even they are far beyond animals
sure we share dna and basics of cell reproduction..but this could be more likely to be the result of de-evolution..that evolution..[that implies new advantage from nuthing

we could start with a bible
and graduly loose whole chapters and verse
and end up with bacteria...[god devolving into nothingness
[as opposed to bacteria becomming god]

here we are huh man
we watched the stars..measured the season
can look at random form and determine words

there is no comparison..to the dreams of a simpleton..nor a dog
to think your dreaming is the same as darwin..or jesus..or einstein
[well its plainly absurd]..to say your dog can create classical music..or duplicate rembrandt..or build the twin towers[let alone blow them down]

show me the dog rule book
point out what the dogs wrote
show me how the dog built your habitation[home]

sure it might be fun
if you could sweet talk the womankind into bonobo fear response
im not quite sure i wouldnt lie down..and take it..like a man and take the 'love'..the ol quater ton/silver back wants to spead arround freely.

humans cant comprehend animals
by giving them huhman qualities
those who are at the spiritual evolution of beast
chose by their ignorance their beastly incarnation

our spirits have evolved[spiritual evolution of eternal spirit]
accross many material growth incarnations..not material evolution

use your volution
see putting an e before it has subverted your own volutions
there is a solution..say enough..show me the proof

life reveals meaning..it may have been there
from the beginning...only waiting for higher appriciation
by a higher evolved being..that the highest being..in whom's image we are created

your almost a god
why chose to devolve back into beast
[or put up with them lording their reigns of error[terror[..over all of creation]

http://news.discovery.com/animals/chimpanzees-self-awareness-110504.html

Poirot, all that your original quote proved, was how little that
philosophers knew about primatology and what fools they made of
themselves, jumping to conclusions. Descartes was an expert at this.

The behaviour of small monkeys, which are prey to chimps, eagles and
other predators, is more like what he described. Chimps, bonobos
and gorillas are just as relaxed in their native environment as
any tribe of humans living in the forest. In fact more so, because
nobody argues with a gorilla. Their only predator these days is man.

If we create problem solving challenges for species like orangs and
chimps, we know that they can solve them, by innovation involving
a number of steps. So clearly they can plan, think ahead and innovate.
How much they think about other things, we really don't
know. So my point is that Ortega was wrong

>> venture onto OLO and do what little I can to combat the forces of darkness --which invariably sees me crossing swords with Poriot (sic) <<

SPQR - WTF?

Poor attempt at irony perhaps. I have my disagreements with Poirot, but would hardly colour her even remotely dim let alone dark. There are far worse cavaliers of ignorance on OLO than my oft challenging Poirot (and if she knew what I knew about someone I dare not name, she would understand a lot more about me).

Is there a meaning to life?

Well if it means standing up to complete toss-pots and not being intimidated by those for whom power is an aphrodisiac, then there is meaning to my existence. Of course this may well not apply to others, whose existence is based on forcing conformity on others or on the brand and quantity of material possessions or even type of career.

Thank you, Ammonite : )
(must admit, I do like the word "tosspot"!)

Yabby,

That, of course, is your opinion.

I think its an interesting theory, in that we have evolved our hulking neo-cortex and in tandem with our propensity for theoretical thinking and our imagination, have applied our ideas to manipulate our material environment, thus furnishing us with ever more time for contemplation and improvement. Tribal man tends to be less innovative than civilised man, yet there is no comparison between his innovation and that of other primates, it's streaks ahead.

But I suppose my main question was "is there a point to life in general", not so much what purpose our psyche's fashion from our experience...on the surface there wouldn't appear to be.

*Tribal man tends to be less innovative than civilised man, yet there is no comparison between his innovation and that of other primates, it's streaks ahead.*

Indeed Poirot, but humans continue to show incredible human bias,
when it comes to analysing why and how much the difference really
is, in terms of brain function.

I once argued with an anthropologist who claimed that only humans
have culture. When I pointed out that culture is largely what
mothers teach their kids and that chimp moms have been seen to
teach their kids how to crack open nuts using certain stones,
he claimed that this was not culture as they were not human!

It is simplistic to compare Eintein to a chimp and then claim
some kind of human magical powers.

The critical evolutionary step was as much the vocal tract, as
the brain. Chimps missed out on that one and so language and the
passing on of information, is extremely limited. Humans have built
what they have on the pack of combining billions of brains, through
the power of language.

But set a chimp and a human free in the jungle, without any human
gadgets or help from others, in many cases the chimp would win
when it came to survival of the fittest, despite that human brain

Yabby,

You'll get no argument from me about the importance of language in man's advancement.

And of course a chimp would be better suited to survival in the jungle (although tribal man could probably match him), the same as Western man would fair better in a Westfield Mall.

...Nature says by law, the purpose of life is to consume energy by means of procreation with the outcome measured as entropy. In the end, all will be still. How simple.

...So get along with the task and make love in order to procreate, but remember, as entropy increases heat decreases, so the heart grows colder; thus unhappiness can now be added to the scales of entropy!

Please note:

...From the argument of physics, the above formula dictates that in nature, homosexuality is illegal under the terms of entropy, since procreation (the essential purpose of life) is impossible, thus entropy measured as energy loss is not supported on behalf of nature as the plan dictates!

Dan

Poirot, all of the best efforts to construct an overlying purpose to life have failed, it seems to me. They are at best speculations, at worst straight-out bullsh!t.

And the very worst of man's inhumanity to man has come out of such speculations.

Hell, Antiseptic, and here I was led to believe religion and belief in God was the universally accepted cause of all the worlds grief!

Poirot, here's an interesting take on things from Stephen Matchett

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/thecommonroom/index.php/theaustralian/comments/when_do_students_start_thinking

"Neuroscientists (well the bloke who wrote the book I read on this and the three I have interviewed for stories ) say that our brains have a mind of their own and that we are hard wired to pursue what was in demand for almost all of human history, (safety, meat and nice warm cave).

So whatever age we study at we are only using the bit of our brain which isn’t focused on the important stuff, like where the sabre tooth tigers are hiding. "

The meaning of life? Sounds positively lichenesque, in a human sort of way.

Anti,

Very good point (and your word "lichenesque" is superb!)

Civilisation (as we know it) is really only the blink of an eye in evolutionary terms, so it's not surprising that that would be the case. Our ability to adapt is something that we tend to gloss over and take for granted. Look how the world has changed even in only the last hundred years for people in developed countries. However, our modern lifestyle tends to erase the conscious connections in our psyche, like a net curtain, our true instincts are veiled from us.

Actually language is going strong in most humans by age three. apparently we're hardwired for that as well. Infants master incredible feats in this area. The "grammar of language" seems to be instinctive in all human societies. Steven Pinker, in his book "The Language Instinct" says that while there are stone-age tribes, there are no stone-age languages - that every language is sophisticated. The average Bantu tribesman has a language every bit as sophisticated as an Englishman (perhaps even more so).

It's an interesting read if you can get hold of it

diverse dan..i got a mate[my lil buddy
a real dikkkhead..who perks up at the mention of love
who refuses to entropophy

its hard going for this hard case
who hasnt a thought in his mind
yet spits out his opinion in dribs and drabs

i think he presumes he is the reason of my being
im sick of carrying the uselsss pp prikk arroun
he hangs arround uselessly...

and though im told
looks good enough to eat..
hes flat out filling even an empty scummmm bag
[that other name for them plastic raincoats]

anyhow im the court jester
thats my reason for being

and when we all 'get'..the joke
who knows we will all be seeing the joke
of a world of little pinhead prikkks..

running these huh?man ..into races..
cause..the little beggers
cant run for themselves

i would talk about his two nutty mates
but cant risk getting the sack

if sex was all we are here for
how come those who do the job well..for many
die so young..and there are so many old spinsters
and smelly old men..no one wants around..except to claim their wealth

there is a meaning in life
even if i dont got the words to explain why

some times the toa..the 'way'
is enough...its the journey..not the beginning or end

Maybe the meaning to life is very simple.

Maybe it is leaving the world a better place than we found it.

Maybe it is looking after the planet for all the life on it and for the next generation.

Why does there have to be more?

One Under God:

...Ahhhh. One Under God. (I am onto it), the mention of the rain coat was the key! So much easier though the riddle would be solved, if you had mentioned his propensity of your mate towards a "one eyed view" of the world!

...True, but thankfully half the inhabitants of the world have a similar mate. The interesting point though, centres on opportunity for successful integration under the condition of friendly circumstances. Forcing "conversation" from the interested parties is frowned upon by social norms (Not to mention laws of our "great land" preventing "conversation", unless by mutual agreement).

...PS Keep the raincoat buttoned-up