Don’t worry. Australian TV channels give little coverage to events in our nearest neighbour. What happens in a remote province of that sprawling Javanese Empire called Indonesia usually does not merit even a mention.

No need to reach for the remote.

However those who are interested in what is happening in our neck of the woods should read:

EVERYONE PROFITS FROM WEST PAPUA, EXCEPT FOR PAPUANS

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/12/west-papua-striking-miners-indonesia

>>The death of a striking Papuan miner at the hands of Indonesian troops is the latest brutal COLONIAL injustice inflicted on my people>>

(Capitalisation added)

Wait a moment.

That can’t be right.

Only Europeans, Americans or Israelis can be “colonialists.”

Read the article and decide for yourself.

>>So who is profiting from our sacred lands? The answer lies with companies including Freeport, Rio Tinto and BP – and, … the Indonesian government. When West Papua was colonised by Indonesia in the early 1960s, Indonesia quickly awarded the rights to mine our land to the US company Freeport-McMoRan …The multimillion-dollar Freeport contract was signed in 1967, two years before West Papuans were given a vote on whether to remain part of Indonesia in a UN referendum …The Act of Free Choice (we call it the Act of No Choice) saw just 1,025 people allowed to vote, out of a population close to 1 million, ….>>

For further worrying news about Indonesia see:

THE THREAT TO MODERATE INDONESIA

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/the-threat-to-moderate-indonesia/story-e6frg6z6-1226163349517

>>Last year, and again this year, enraged mobs of Muslim activists burned down Ahmadiya centres and beat Ahmadis to death.
[…]

Sabam Siagian is a Christian, … a former highly successful Indonesian ambassador to Australia. …he tells me: "This country faces three great challenges. The first is the decline of religious tolerance. The second is the cancer of corruption. And the third is the eroding respect for authority and institutions."

Sabam says …religious minorities -- Christians, Hindus, Ahmadis and others -- now feel insecure and often under threat in Indonesia.>>

For those who want to know a little more about West Papuan history see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Papua_%28province%29

>>Even after Indonesia's independence in 1949, Irian Jaya was retained by the Dutch for various reasons. However, Indonesia claimed all of the territory of the former Dutch East Indies, including the Dutch New Guinea holdings, so it invaded Irian Jaya in 1961. In 1969, the United Nations supervised the Act of Free Choice in which Papuan leaders decided in favour of joining Indonesia. This was however rejected by the Free Papua Movement (OPM). The OPM group then conducted guerrilla warfare against Indonesia.>>

Whats to know Steven?
The United States of America Ordered the Dutch out.
Sold out the natives to Indonesia.
Not much different than all sides of Australian politics.
My side headlining, in East Timor.
We covered up the murders of our TV men.
Do you think this country will over night grow a back bone?

Belly asks:

>>Do you think this country will over night grow a back bone?>>

I'm an immigrant. I came here at age 51. I don' know enough about Australia to answer that question.

What I will say is this. We live in a dangerous part of the world and I think it's about to get more dangerous. At the same time our "big brother" on who we have come to rely seems to be weakening.

So we'd better get some backbone.

Steven my comments Cynical ones, came via living in a time some here never saw.
My view of history is this.
That country, the whole, has been colonized by German/Holland and Managed, part of it,by us after Germany lost it.
Post WW2 America, rightly so, took over in part the British roll in this area.
Indonesia, its Army trained by Japan, fought for and won freedom.
America, a Nation I respect and value, while decrying Colonialism.
Wanted to fight Communism more.
West Papua became a pawn, it never had been other than PART of a whole land.
Germany/Holland/Australia[ we did not] Had no right to colonize the country.
America, then, now,thought/thinks Indonesia had/has
That others may influence a free people, China trys to.
Cynic? yes but I think true.
Those not sure should review the actions of the UN at the time Holland was forced out and Indonesia GIVEN another peoples country.
We should consider these slaves, murder and torture victims on our door step.
Those, either side, have no thoughts on this issue, should have none on Iran Iraq or any country.

For a long time the fashionable folk in the West, who think they have the master franchise on morality, have had a blind spot which has prevented them from seeing imperialism, except where it wears Western garb.The Javanese Empire's actions in West Irian (and other regions of the archipelago) are up there with the worst of European imperialism.

But little will change by us wringing our hands and whining about Arjay-esque conspiracies that let it happen. Each passing day sees West Irian --thanks to the deviously simple but devastating process called transmigration --become more and more like just another outer suburb of Jakarta.

(To borrow from Lenin) "What Is To Be Done?"
Here's some suggestions, for starters
1) STOP training Kopassuss (& funding the Indonesian military.Period)
2) START funding & training the OPM

Belly wrote:

>>We should consider these slaves, murder and torture victims on our door step.
Those, either side, have no thoughts on this issue, should have none on Iran Iraq or any country.>>

It is much more pleasant for people sitting safely in Australia to pass moral judgments on the belligerents of far away conflicts than to confront the reality next door. We are a bit player on the global scene. What we say and do has no influence so we can go along to get along.

But confront the Javanese Empire, with ten times our population? That’s too scary to contemplate. Rather think about the Middle-East.

SPQR wrote:

>>1) STOP training Kopassuss (& funding the Indonesian military.Period)
2) START funding & training the OPM>>

Should we be doing anything?

Much has been made of the fact that the size of China’s economy is likely to exceed that of the US within a few years. Few people seem to know that, by some measures, Indonesia has already overtaken us and is growing rapidly.

Of course, in per capita terms Indonesia is way behind Australia just as China is far behind the US. But size does matter. In the coming decades it will be Indonesia, not Australia, that is the dominant power in this region.

We shall be living in a region in which the dominant power is a Muslim country which, by all accounts, is trending steadily towards the more conservative end of the Islamic spectrum.

If our “big brother,” the US really does fade, where does that leave us?

Many Javanese have not forgiven us for, as they see it, invading East Timor. They regard it as part of Dar-ul-Islam which we infidels have desecrated.

Could we end up as the “Israel” of Asia with the advantage that unlike Israel we have no land borders with our potential foes?

Maybe the best thing to do, SPQR, is nothing.

Or, maybe, we should be arming dissident groups across the Javanese Empire in order to destabilise it.

Something to think about?

<< In the coming decades it will be Indonesia, not Australia, that is the dominant power in this region.We shall be living in a region in which the dominant power is a Muslim country which, by all accounts, is trending steadily towards the more conservative end of the Islamic spectrum>>

Of course! Now I get it.
When you made your comment about OZ needing to introduce certain aspects of Sharia.You were thinking of the future --and the plum job of governorship of the new province of australis Jaya.

In the coming decades it will be Indonesia, not Australia, that is the dominant power in this region.We shall be living in a region in which the dominant power is a Muslim country which, by all accounts, is trending steadily towards the more conservative end of the Islamic spectrum>>

SPQR
The various stages of Australia being under control have already occurred. 40 years ago stupidity was introduced & now the other show is well underway.

Steven you do not understand my country its history.
Further you do not understand this region.
And not the politics of it past present and future.
Indonesia will never rule this region.
I do not see my country in that roll.
Maybe China or America .
Now, let us all get off our knees.
Muslims, frighten the hell out of some.
Some think the long term answer is a form of assimilation.
I presume us assimilating them.
Indonesia got its leg up, because America,during ww2 claiming to be against colonialism, became a colonizer of country's politics.
That failed.
We fail still,two sides play this chess game, we ignore that at our peril.
I ask our other poster, who I largely agree with, this.
The matter in truth ,must it be left vs right?
Or can we just look at it from the point of its native people and see what it is, just wrong.

I think it's time to give *Pauline Hanson* a run coz we're in danger of being " ... swamped! ..."

HaHaHa

;-)

Belly wrote:

>>Indonesia will never rule this region.>>

I never said it would.

I said it would be the dominant power. Right now I cannot think of a single reason why a country of 250 mn people with a rapidly growing economy shouldn't dominate this region.

Can you?

DreamOn

Where have I said we're going to be "swamped?"

I said a Muslim country that seemed to be trending in the extreme direction would become the dominant power in this region.

Can you think of anything that is likely to prevent this occurring?

Steven for this I am sorry.
I understand the best reply to some is no reply.
Dream On, was once TAPP.
The Australian Peoples Party.
He not getting in early seems to have lost that name.
A look at his posting history, should show he was ALWAYS an advocate of Independents.
Calton, the seat Greg Combet has, saw this gentleman run, once to my knowledge.
He had the donkey vote so appears to have got his money back.
The apparent swing to hasonism, is out of character with his past stand.
But a symptom too.
I truly hope DreamOn/TAPP gets well.
I advise not to take every thing said by him on face value.

DreamOn,
dream on !

hasonism,
Belly,
Please explain ? I presume you made a little typo & you mean Hansonism. It does sound ominous this Hansonism but what is so incredible about it ? Pauline hanson said what everyone thinks & believes but is not allowed to openly state so. At least she was open & transparent from the start unlike Rudd/Gillard for whom openness & transparency was merely an electoral catch cry. I'm convinced Pauline could have run the Country a lot better than those two. It just goes to show that Intellect simply doesn't translate into positive effect by some quirk.

That gentle man, subject of my post.
Has never shown support for Pauline Hanson.
He has always been against first the ALP.
And ALL party's.
It was my intention, to first highlight that.
And secondly inform.
Not insult him, but inform.
I in the past, put far too much faith in him having an understanding.
And saw, other people, unaware of things, who needed to know.
Shame a thread, of this much importance, the suffering, the gutless actions of past and present governments, on both sides.
These victims,we can see if we look, are considered of lessor importance than regional politics.
One day it may be us.

Steven I some times think you can see more than some of us.
You start threads about the middle east and in a few days? it seems to follow your thoughts .
This threads title was well thought out.
And very true yawn!
Few care.
And my Friend that saddens me!
Now, last night, tonight and tomorrow, people are being flogged or shot.
Imprisoned for? flying a flag representing their country!
Australia,America, long ago sold them out,not on the slave block.
But worse,
I never will be able to understand why those concerned about refugees seem not to see this.
Perceptive of you, yawn.

Posted by Belly, Saturday, 15 October 2011 4:05:58 PM

" ... Dream On, was once TAPP. ... "

No *Belly* as you have already been told, I have only ever written under the name *DreamOn* since creating the account and never held concurrent accounts and never written under the name "TAPP."

You appear to have mistaken belief for fact in this particular instance and amplified that in your mind and come up with the wrong conclusion.

Not to worry.

..

However, you are correct that I am no *Hansonite* but in this particular incidence could in my view be correctly identified as "Stirring the Pot/ Trolling." It amuses me sometimes to do this but this appears to have been lost on some of my audience. That happens sometimes too. ;-)

..

No, people who are familiar with my views would know that I am fond of *GreenBrowny* and believe that he would make a good President of Australia.

..

I am not fond of HomoPhobes and believe that since *Charlie Winza* apologised on behalf of the Crown for persecuting the individual recognised as the one who cracked the Nazi Enigma code (who was also gay) that so called "Poofter Bashing" in all of its forms is now illegal, and transgressors deserve harsh treatment.

..

Again, I would not be surprised if *Hanson* style views were propogated in the media given that at least for now, on shore processing of Asylum Seekers appears to be the reality.

Oh, re the topic of this thread, I seem to recall that a series of adds were run some time ago alledging that the UN hand over to Indonesia was a sham, as eye witness accounts of one or some individuals present alledge that the majority of Papuans chanted:

" ... Sendiri Sendiri! ... "

Which in the national language of Indonesia means:

By mySelf if singular, by OurSelves if plural.

..

Of course, I have heard it alleged that the Indonesian military are not shy to shoot their own people when they are challenged and stand not to get their way too.

..

It seems the major parties in Australia only care that they get access to Indonesia's mineral wealth and when there is trouble with the locals, the miners make a call, the choppers come in and the local people are shot indiscriminately.

..

So, perhaps it should come as no surprise that the suicide bombers occasionally target there own government. (And that really deserves its own thread at some point i.m.o.)

My congrats to who ever wrote that for you.
Quite lucid and quite unlike your complete post history.
It is that history,the use of the very same insults and targets that see,s me have no reason to change my mind.
However your Secretary may well be of service in future posts, will miss the hahaha bit but such is life.

Well *Pork Belly* you are of course welcome to believe what you like, but I have never been *TAPP* or otherwise I assure you.

And I write for myself, purely and only and no I don't have a secretary to assist me.

..

Maybe try supporting your claims with fact and reason, instead of emotional belief and you may be pleased to find that your arguments carry more resonance.

..

Thereafter, I do not believe in speaking nicely to or of "Child Abusers" or "HomoPhobes." Both of them have at times brought great suffering to the vulnerable.

I now in the interests of our forum end all communications with you.
Even this more lucid version contains the DNA.
I hope,an honest hope,one day you find piece and some improvement in your health.
Greg is doing well.
As this is our last communication what say you drop past practice of barbed insults in future threads.

Most of you seem unaware that you live in South Irian, your remarks could be being recorded for the day of reckoning when the legitimate government of Australia takes over from the ursurpers.

You have been warned.

is mise at first glance a surge away from the threads intended path.
Maybe not how ever.
I have no doubt the gutless actions of us and others lead by the USA is basically a wish for a tame Muslim Friend in this region.
Headline story this afternoon.
About a child in China run over twice and ignored by about 15 people.
We a whole Nation continue our stroll past these poor people.
Must not point fingers.

*Pork Belly* I really think that you need to be concerned with your own health and you clearly have little understanding about mine.

The reason that I say that is because of your moronic ongoing rants about *TAPP* and someone named *Greg* and your delusional belief that I know who they are. As said, the only place that there is any reality to that is in your own head.

Thereafter, whilst you and the other pathetic morons in this country run around insisting that everyone speak nicely, I will continue to advocate "in my own sweet way" for those issues that I believe in, as and when I please, which includes my concept of the Rights of Children, Gays, Greens and the Original Australians, amongst other things.