Is the fact that the latest arrest in Bali, for drugs, involves a minor an excuse for forgiveness.

It is aledged that this kid had a drug problem back home and, that he was being treated for same.

So, the question begs, what the hell were the parents thingking, taking this kid to a place like Bali, knowing his situation and, knowing the penalty for drugs can be death.

More so, knowing of his condition, and his surrounds, why was he unsupervised, to a point where he made contact with th alleged dealer.

Then ther is the cost.

Who pays the bills?

Who should?

Rehctub- you seem to be looking at this situation entirely the wrong way.

You are viewing it from the perspective of a normal, responsible parent- the kind of parent that would actually THINK about these kinds of problems, perhaps the kind of parents that wouldn't think twice about jumping in to offer advice or insist on guiding their children down the right paths in life (let alone warn their children to not even bother taking their drugs through airports in South East Asia and just leaving them behind and buying them on the other side if they really wanted them).

I can tell you as a fact there are parents who are so lazy and self-absorbed, that they were probably themselves drunk or stoned every time their child was around and simply paid no attention to what they were doing.
(and no, I'm not talking about parents who take drugs when their kids aren't around; these kinds of parents would have been most likely to pick up on their kids drug habits and give them a warning- there are parents who are intoxicated all the time and simply don't care what happens.)

We can only read between the lines.
Based on what little has found its way in to the media.
WARNING! never take that on face value, it is as often wrong as right.
14 years old, from seemingly a middle class family, said to be rebellious.
Spoiled? maybe, being bribed or rewarded with the Trip or just a family habit?
Who knows.
He is at an age that see some think mum and dad are fools.
That they know every thing.
We have no right to impose our views/wishes/wants on police in Bali.
We may well ask what becomes of the locals who deal in drugs.
Even if, like Australia, police taxing, that is picking up benefits from the trade keeps it alive.;
If he was my son, I too would sleep in a room next to him.
And remind him every day/hour how very stupid he has without doubt, been.
I would tell him about second chances and better lifestyles.
I would ask that he, be shown the inside of the worst prison cells.
Love some time harms tough love is worth while.

There is an excuse there, and that is for the parents to swap places with the kid.

I wonder if now we will see a rush of parents, with troublesome teenagers, taking them to Bali for a short, to be extended, holiday?

Dear rehctub,

You ask the question - "Is being 14 an excuse?"
of the young man now facing charges on possessing
cannabis in Bali. We don't know all the facts in
this case. And judging his parents ahead of time
doesn't seem quite fair. Some of the newspaper
articles that I've read - state that the young
man was set up. That there was a police "sting,"
and someone had dopped him in. So who knows what's
going on. Certainly, this is going to be a lesson
that the young man will live to regret.

An interesting comment made by a reader in Saturday's,
The Age, (Oct. 8th, 2011), gives a different take on
this matter. The reader states:

"It is disheartening to observe the lengths to which
the federal government will go to support the 14
year old boy in Bali compared with the lengths the
government woll go to not support children in detention
and refugees in our own country.

How is it possible to acknowledge so thoroughly this
boy's distress of being in jail for four days and yet
be blind to the distress their policies inflict upon
those who are held for months or years?"

<<"It is disheartening to observe the lengths to which
the federal government will go to support the 14
year old boy in Bali compared with the lengths the
government woll go to not support children in detention
and refugees in our own country>>

It is enlightenment to observe the lengths to which the Indonesia govt will go to support purported *minors* profiteering from people smuggling activities --yet seek to impose the harshest penalties on Oz youth who might infringe their drug laws.

<<The Indonesian embassy estimates about 25 Indonesians in jails across Australia on people-smuggling charges claim they are children.

Indonesia consular official Andalusia Dewi said the number of children charged was a worrying issue and the embassy had expressed its concerns with Australian officials since the start of the year.

She said the Indonesian government would like to see accused smugglers disputing their age detained in juvenile detention, instead of prison, until a court had determined if they were adults. Prosecutors do not proceed with people-smuggling charges when a court rules an accused is a child>>
http://www.intellasia.net/news/articles/society/111328202.shtml

According to the Herald the young man was flaunting his Cannabis in the faces of numerous locals, shop-owners and passers-by during his stay in Bali before the cops got him.
So I think the answer to this thread is that the 14 year old DID know better, but was too arrogant to control himself.

Anyway, I feel more pity on the people that have lived in Bali for the past 30 years watching their neighborhoods go from peaceful laid-back Utopias, turn into ratty ghettos inundated with drugged out, self-absorbed, bad-tempterd, drunken, tight-arsed foreigners from Australia only looking for cheap drugs, cheap (usually unwilling and pimped) prostitutes, and to let the worst side of themselves (that they are too cowardly to show at home) be flaunted in people's faces because they think they're better than the locals.

When I was in Bangkok a few years ago, I spoke to some locals who were actually amazed I wasn't some kind of pedophile pervert coming there for the Red-Light Districts- which paints a sad picture of what kind of example our overseas tourists are setting to others in our name.

In fact, you might notice that the major towns in Bali don't even have many actually Balinese people around anymore (most of the people that work there are from East Java- who are quick to take the ferry back to their islands once they've closed up for the day, rather than stick around.

It seems that the destructive impact of bad migrants that don't integrate goes both ways.

Ok, so it ha been said that we have many diplomats working around th clock on this case, so, th question remains, should we, the tax payer, pay for this.

And Lexi, I understand your point about judging the parents, however, this is like allowing an alcoholic to work in a brewey.

Prevention is always better than cure.

I just hope they offer to pay the costs here.

The danger in blaming parents without good knowledge of the situation is that parents are not the only influence on kids and other have little control over some of the influences on their children. Attempts to manage "bad" influences can often just drive the kid's further into rebellion.

Kid's seem to pick up a lot more of what they are taught about rights than what they are taught of responsibility.

Good parents can and do end up with teenage kid's making really bad choices.

R0bert

Robert, I understand and agree, however, this is not te issue here.

My concern is, what would motivate a parent to take a known drug effected child to a place where the penalty for drugs can be as harsh as death.

This is the part I'm having trouble understanding.

Disputes get resolved, but not by prejudging and fixed ideas.
On what evidence can we say why this kid found trouble.
Do we understand parents no matter how hard they try,how good they are, can not always control the actions of a 14 year old boy or girl.
And pay!
Annoying.
Guilty or not these Australian public servants are paid to do such work.
Stop please involving humanity and any country's needed support in money.
We do not even know if he is a fool or a victim a sick boy or unlucky one.
He is in another country.
Be honest,if he was your son/grand son what would you say.
If it is leave him there he would be better without you in his life.
We should respect this country's laws.
drop plans to boycott Bali/stop trying to soften their laws.
And hope, if the kid bought it on himself, he spends the next 2 and a bit weeks thinking about his future.
PLEASE do not bring him home a hero or you may destroy him.

I wonder how much our education system is teaching about the implications of drugs.
I venture to think not much judging by the number of young people involved. Is being 14 an excuse ? I think not. I have been offered to have a "smoke" as a youngster but I knew then that it was a mindless thing to do. Mind you I made some pretty ignorant decisions later in life. I find it very difficult to see how anyone from say 8 years on can plead ignorance of taking drugs. If only Australia or indeed the West were a tenth as tough on drugs as Indonesia. We could be a good society.

Belly, not that long ago I remember you batting for that Rush guy who was involved in the Bali 9 .

Where was your respect for their laws then, I ask.

As for pre judging him, I am not.

Everything I have said is alleged, and nothing more, other than the facts already known, which are, h had a drug problem at 14, or younger and, his parents were having treatment provided for him.

For that very reason I still have to wonder what on earth prompted them to take him to a place like Bali., known full well of the possible cosequesnces shoukd he be caught in the act there.

It is for this very reason why I feel they should foot the cost of this, not me or us.

We already dip into t pot to much now. This can't continue.

People must be held accountable for their actions.

rehctub, agreed that on the face of it taking a kid with allegedly known drug problems to somewhere like Bali does seem like a very odd choice.

Robert

Hasbeen:”I wonder if now we will see a rush of parents, with troublesome teenagers, taking them to Bali for a short, to be extended, holiday?”

Hahaha.

Retchub: “Is the fact that the latest arrest in Bali, for drugs, involves a minor an excuse for forgiveness.”

Yeah mate it is. Because (far as I know) he was raised here so he’s our problem and raised with an expectation of being forgiven until around 18 years old.

He is a child in the eyes of his own govt, dumb child maybe but still a child. Lexi makes a good point about cleaning up our own backyard but he is from our own backyard and if anyone is going to give him a clip it should be us.

Yep we should pay the bill, we pay for all sorts of stupid injustices here concerning children without question.

Here in Australia thanks to social engineers their is little to no consequence for crime. Most kids are either fatherless or have an emasculated father. The feminisation of our education system and judiciary has led to young boys being totally confused about manhood. Being 14 is an excuse because our failed system has made it an excuse. Interesting enough the same people claiming leniency because of his age would like to see the voting age lowered. THe media made idiots of itself with the Corby case and look like embarassing us again in this case. Hopefully this boy and his parents will learn a lesson but perhaps our media will reward their stupidity by buying their story.

Yeas I agree jewl, however, this is a different situation as he was caught for drugs in a country that has extremely harsh anti drug laws, albeit, for trafficking.

Of cause it appears he was not trafficking though.

As has been said, we don't know enough about the case yet to pass judgement. With that in mind, all that follows is conjecture.

Firstly, before it was announced that the boy had a drug problem back in Australia (at 14? What the hell were his parents doing all that time?), I read that Indonesia deals with addicts differently from recreational users - those with small quantities (such as this boy) who can prove a history of addiction get lighter sentences. Perhaps the addiction is fabricated in the hope of getting him off the hook in that way?

Secondly, even if it was a sting, the allegation is that the boy (cashed up and unsupervised) bought drugs in a country in which even a deaf and blind person would have to be aware of the risks. I work with 14 year-olds every day, and very few are stupid enough to brush that off. And many of them are switched on enough to think that this boy is a fool.

Thirdly, as has already been noted, what on earth were the parents thinking, taking the boy to Bali when he apparently had a drug problem? And what were they doing while he was out sourcing his pot? Drinking cocktails by the pool? Some family holiday ...

While the boy will pay the price here (and fair enough: he [allegedly] committed the crime), it's the parents who should be well and truly ashamed of themselves. He'll do some time in custody and then get on with life. Hopefully they'll do their time in mental anguish for much longer.

I think that having lived in Indonesia on and off from 2006 - 2010 that few posters here seem to appreciate that Kuta is a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

There are drugs like methamphetamine and mushrooms everywhere, prostitution, home made spirits (thus the methanol problem) gambling etc etc with the local police actively administering and profiteering from it.

..

The bomb memorial is a favorite site for dealing, as I know from personal experience.

..

The simple solution in my mind is a prisoner swap - our kids for theirs. I reckon that would work, otherwise, the poor kid is likely in for hell.

Taking drugs (so-called social drugs), an excess of alcohol and smoking is still endemic amongst teenaged kids these days, despite the education at school, and on TV advertising. The attitude of "It won't happen to me" has been proven wrong so many times. Parents should all be aware of drug taking and binge drinking, as the signs of both have been publicised many times., this now beggars the question, that,
are parents so self-absorbed that they don't look for, or recognise the telltale signs of excessive alcohol consumption and drug use; or have they given up 'checking' on the kids when they go out, party, get horribly drunk and/or take drugs. These young adults, despite the campaigns regarding "self-respect", "don't do drugs" and "don't drink and drive", continue to drink and drive and take drugs have a responsibility to the general public regarding their behaviour. It is time for all to act responsibly if their lifestyle matches the problems mentioned in this post.To live a life of regret after having a bad accident which might cause the death of others is a life sentence,not always a jail sentence, and not one that a person could relish for the rest of his/her life.
NSB

I personally think it sends a much better message to not conduct any prisoner swap at all;
That message is "if you do the wrong thing, the government will only pay for your lawyers, but will definitely not pull strings for your personal sake to make your life more comfortable".

A culture of self-entitlement and belief that the world will bend over to pull you out of your own mess would only fuel the poor destructive behavior and treatment Australians subject each other and foreign cultures to- that they are the center of the universe and everyone will fall over themselves to cater to their selfish wants.

Not to mention if we hammer the idea into more bogans' heads that you are in fact entirely subject to the laws of the country you enter and aren't special just because you're white and they're brown- more Australian tourists might start treating other people with a bit more respect, and probably won't result in as many people trying to kill us.

Posted by King Hazza, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 4:55:02 PM

" ... bOGANs ... "

Hmmm .. a bit shallow methinks.

As said recently, the combination of the culture of what really goes on in some of our high schools visa vi drug use

(like wEEd and excess over prescribed dEXIEs)

plus the failure of our secondary education system to empart:

1. First Aid
2. The Legal/Guvment System & Mutual Reciprocity
3. The Value of $$$
4. Independent Living
5. Comparative Religion/Philosophy/Ethics

leaves a lot of kids an accident waiting to happen, especially in intoxicating places like Kuta, Bali.

Surely it is not for us to blame the kids? But rather to make up as best we can for failing to turn them our right prior to them coming out as legal adults of legal capacity (or otherwise.)

..

I am opposed to the ongoing !Child Abuse! being administered by the scum in Canberra. It is if successive generations of the crown seem to feel the need to continue the abuse, from their own disadvantaged in that place south of scotland in times gone by, to UnWed mothers, to the Genocidal and DeHumanising policies up to and including the Stolen Generations, to the kids of Asylum Seekers and associates today.

It is not these kids that should be behind bars i.m.o., but rather the likes of *John Howard* and *Juliar Geelar*

Surely? .. seriously, I know that some of you think that I am a little "other" but I can tell you, people that treat children this way certainly do not get my vote.

..

I recall a conversation where someone said that the "Magna Carta" did not actually apply to ALL PEOPLES but rather to a select few.

..

But for me *hAZZa*, even if you don't Luv your own Children of your neighbour as much as your own, you ought also consider considering that the Indonesians are upset by the confinement of theirs,

(it doesn't make for furthering good relations in an imperfect world with a tarnished history)

thus I reckon a

*PRISONER EXCHANGE*

would be grand.

Dream on, kids are wholly and solely the responsibility of their parents, not governments, not schools or educators.

Furthermore, parents are, or at least should be, responsible and liable for the actions of their children.

Now if parents don't want the resposbillity of caring for and guiding children, there are a couple of simple solutions, either don't have them, or, if they are a mistake, like so many today, make adoption a whole lot easier so the hundreds of wannabe parents can have these unwanted kids to care and provide for.

Of cause, rediculus schemes like the baby bonus are on of th contributors of way wood kids.

Not that I am tagging this kid as wayward. But , witoutnknowing the full fac, there does seem to be a lack of parenting in this case.

wholly and solely the responsibility of their parents, not governments, not schools or educators.
rehctub,
I agree that's how it should be. Unfortunately, the social engineering do-gooder brigade has ensured it isn't to be that way. Why, even Govt isn't subscribing to that & instead of knocking the drug culture on the head it's providing very expensive & futile drug rehabilitation. There's only one effective way to stop this mindless culture & that is to whack the morons into a camp where practical & physical activities get rewarded with a feed afterwards. No-one exempt. 18-20 Non military National Service & anyone against this put their money where their mouth is. Let them fork out for the damage. Simplistic ? yes, simple solution Yes ! Last but not least spend time in Indonesia to get your eyes opened to how to deal with these selfish & irresponsible morons. Taking or selling drugs you cop the same treatment.

Sorry Dreamon but 14 year olds are in fact old enough to know better;
and these messages we are implying will also be read by the rest of Australians;
And the very last thing we should be teaching people is that nationalism, red tape and emotional manipulation trumps our respect for other people's laws, and if you get into trouble in a poorer country, the government will go out of its way to back you up, and try to bend the rules wherever it can just for you.

Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 13 October 2011 6:51:23 AM

" ... Dream on, kids are wholly and solely the responsibility of their parents, not governments, not schools or educators. ... "

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one *RehTub* I don't much like the principal of the law that insists that " ... ignorance of the law is no excuse. ... " and given that many parents are insufficiently aware of the legal system themselves then what chance does a kid have? Not to mention that it changes all the time.

..

Posted by individual, Thursday, 13 October 2011 7:12:18 AM

" ... There's only one effective way to stop this mindless culture & that is to whack the morons into a camp where practical & physical activities get rewarded with a feed afterwards. No-one exempt. ... "

Responsible adults have the right in this society to choose to consume alcohol and cigarettes, both of which pile up the bodies in the morgue on a daily basis. Some people prefer substance, which whilst illegal here, has yet to be evidenced to kill, though fair enough, is not entirely benign if abused. But most drugs are that way though aren't they? I note further that a THC + CBD spray has been approved for "Multiple Sclerosis" but that the Minister is yet to reply visa vi a CBD spray alone.

..

Posted by King Hazza, Thursday, 13 October 2011 9:49:47 AM

" ... Sorry Dreamon but 14 year olds are in fact old enough to know better ... "

And what are the facts to back up that assertion? We do know to the contrary that the frontal lobes of the brain take time to develop which is why kids whether they like it or not will usually break down and cry under pressure AND we also know that in order to become a "reasonable and rational legally aware" individual one has to additionally be trained. It doesn't just happen, which is why the education system needs to be modified/upgraded as earlier mentioned i.m.o.

*RehcTub*

Maaate! What about a new product, say, "The Crackler?"

..

A select piece of *pORk,* with the right qualities, including, but not limited to, the right amount of fat under the skin, AND most importantly, value added for the time to cut it right, where when plus salt and oil, for the right temp, for the right amount of time, will come up bEAOOTIFUL!

Mmmmm .. " ... The other wHITe mEAt ... "

..

You could have it in the window and salt it up with a Big Sick Grinder and oven wrap it straight out, so those folks who only use their kitchens for cuppas and toast, can just come home, heat up the oven, and slam it in.

..

I cannot recall ever getting a piece of pork for crackling that ever had its skin cut right.

..

I did a 1.5kg shoulder for $AU9:00 plus True Blue Spice Island Spices Cooking under the BBQ hood hot crackle, cold sandwiches and a few sweet apple curries for a bit later down the track.

There seems to be a bit more room in the value added niches to bring *pORKy* up a few notches - if you have the right client base to support it that is.

Dreamon, actually I DO know how the child's brain develops;
And most of the adult development occurs before the child reaches high school.

The fact that even I knew better when I was many years younger than him speaks for itself.

I am very pleased with Hamas Palestina and the Yahoodees visa vi their prisoner exchange. Yes .. very pleased. hopefully, the "good things of life" will be shared for a whiles to come and continue to be added to.

..

Otherwise *King Hazza* we'll have to agree to disagree on both the medical and legal arguments.

This kid, apparently, in an intoxicated state, went on a "ding-a ling" run bragging about what he had done, was doing and intended to continue doing. (I note though that I really haven't heard a full set of allegations regarding the facts)

If that is true, clearly he had no real understanding of the potential repercussions.

..

I was brought up in a household where smoking weed was acceptable, and also in my case it led to trouble. So much trouble in fact, even more than 20+ years afterwords, for the petty amount of less than 2grams, I still get nothing but sh!t from the p!gs in the customs department.

Once a criminal, always a criminal in this tin pot little sh!t hole.

..

I would spare this child if it were up to me from being potentially permanently scarred in the school of hard knocks.