Lexi, Squeers and Mollydukes,

Here's a link to an article by John Gray (I've just realised I have a book of his that I haven't read) - He posits that the ideal of "middle-class" in Marx's day was a lot different to how we see middle-class today. He says that "It is capitalism that has killed off the bourgeoisie."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14764357

just happens that greed, corruption and every other vice common to man is in his nature. Capitalism feeds the greed while those believeing in socialism are to self righteous to see they are often the biggest victims of these vices. Wherever man is their is imperfection. Just so happens that everyone wants to immigrate to countries formed on Christian based values. They want to leave socialist and other religous based nations in droves.

There is not one entity called capitalism. The word encompasses multitudes. As long as a society accumulates wealth or capital and uses that wealth for further production the society is capitalist. By that definition of capitalism socialism is merely a subset of capitalism where the state accumulates capital rarher than corporations, private individuals, cooperatives, partnerships or other forms of non-state ownership.

That is not what Marx meant by capitalism since he stated that the goal of socialism is to abolish private property and favoured state ownership of the means of production. As far as I am concerned that does not abolish capitalism. That keeps capitalism but puts the possession of capital in the hands of the state. In my opinion that is not a good place to put capital. I favour separation of religion and state along with separation of capital and state as much as possible.

It seems sensible to me that during economic downturns governments should redistribute wealth to alleviate suffering and provide for the future in supporting education and needed infrastructure. Taxes serve those ends.

I think the present problem is partially due to the fact that ideological cranks have seized the levers of power in the US and many other places. They are cutting taxes and non-military expenditures at a time when it is bad policy. In addition the cranks support spending vast sums in unwinnable wars which cause immense suffering.

This not the article I mentioned, but it is similar;

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2011-04-25/pick-one-spr-or-recession

David f.,

"...By that definition of capitalism socialism is merely a subset of capitalism where the state accumulates capital rather than corporations....."

I believe it was Fromm who suggested that Soviet communism had more in common with capitalistic practice than it did with the crux of Marx's theories.

Dear Davif F.,

I agree with what you've said. Especially the part about
cutting taxes. The "cranks" are indeed part of the vicious
circle of cutting taxes, for the rich. That's outrageous at this
point in time in their economy. President Obama is trying to pass
legislation to at least get them to pay their fair share. And
of course these "cranks" call it "divisive" and class warfare. Typical! As for needless wars - and the huge costs involved.
You won't convince the Republicans (Dick Cheney et al) to make
any changes in that area. Huge problem.