David f.,

"Let's curb the rhetoric..."

Well, there you go....calling people loonies, interpreting "swept away" as "murdered". etc,etc. A lot depends on how we personlly translate rhetoric.(many governments have been "swept out of office" It's a metaphor, not an incitement to murder).

"It's fair to disagree with ideas....It's not fair to ascribe negative characteristics because you disagree with a person..."

David, you continually refer to Marx as all sorts of things, the latest being "scum" on page twelve of this thread.

Are you attempting to break some sort of record in hypocrisy?

Dear Poirot, In talking to you I will respect you. However, I see no reason to show Marx any more respect than I show to Hitler. I am referring to the way we address each other on this list. Is that clear?

davidf,

I agree that we should maintain the proper respect and tone, and I endeavour to do so.
You surely don't deny, however, that when you ascribe those colourful adjectives and hate-speech to Marx, knowing that others on this thread subscribe to his ideas, you effectively insult them (their intelligence and their morality) as well?
I can debate Christians here over Jesus Christ, but if I start calling Christ vile names and go on about the piles of corpses he was responsible for (like Marx, probably none), Christians would surely be entitled to take these offences personally?
You are a reasonable man and I don't see how you can deny this.

Dear Squeers,

Marx was vile. That does not mean everybody who agrees with him is vile. I read him and read vile stuff by a hate-filled bigot. I am aware of the many corpses his followers made and see a direct connection with his words. I cannot be sure that Jesus actually said the bigoted words ascribed to him so that is a different matter. I ascribe the hate speech to Marx because I don't think there's any reasonable doubt that he wrote "On the Jewish Question."

I was not engaging w you on that subject, but you recommended that I read the article. You want to subscribe to Marx's ideas? Then do so, and leave me alone or bring up another subject. I will address a Nazi with respect. Actually I am friends with one, but don't expect me to show any respect for Hitler.

We make judgements based on what information we have. If I read more about Marx that is not going to erase the words in the Manifesto or "On the Jewish Question." Unless it can be shown that he either didn't write those words or had second thoughts I see no reason to think he was other than a bigot who advocated tyranny.

I realise how you feel about Marx, and I realise how my Nazi friend feels about Hitler. He does not expect me to have respect for Hitler and does not try to persuade me that Hitler was really a good guy. I would appreciate it if you would do the same with Marx.

David f.,

How can you utter: "It's fair to disagree with ideas...It's not fair to ascribe negative characteristics because you disagree with a person..." - and then call Marx vile and a hate-filled bigot.

Yes, I realise that you only apply your concocted morality to those with whom you personally interact, however, failing to apply your ethics in a universal manner makes a mockery of your dictum.

So do we understand that if someone is giving you a viewpoint with any sort of universalist spin that they are probably up to no good?
It's all the same deal, Commies to the Left and Commies to the Right and the secret of happiness and prosperity can only be revealed or transmitted by an "educated" elite.

David,
Nazi Eugenics is no different to Stalinist or Maoist political correctness, Liberalism or Christian/Jewish/Muslim conversion, they all want the same thing, the eradication of poverty and suffering by creation of a new universal man or "Master Race", they're all explicit in expressing that desire. Commies, unlike the other groups want to walk away from Stalin and Mao and never mention gangsters like the IRA, Umkhonto we Sizwe, Shining Path, Khmer Rouge or the Naxalites when they're talking about the "struggle".
The Marxist "struggle" has always been linked to organised crime, murder, extortion, theft and oppression of the working class, the Leftist groups going about today are really just gangs.
I'll try and track an article I read on the role of Anti Racist Action agitators in the recent riots and looting in Manchester and their links to the IRA/Organised crime . They were caught red handed directing their young gang members to steal and trash businesses, they even handed out old leftist "Don't Speak to Cops" flyers.
There were reports of Dominic Noonan's involvement in the Telegraph and so on but one piece I read went in considerable detail on the background of that family, their links to ARA and other Communist groups such as the IRA and the man who "started it all", Mark Duggan (he was a relative of the Noonans).