On an almost daily basis we are treated to stories about the economic crisis: will Greece default? Will the developed world ever manage to restore economic growth? Will the austerity packages be austere enough to get Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland and Portugal out of the mess that they are in? Will we need a stimulus package to reduce unemployment and kick start economic growth?
In this context it is interesting to note that whilst all the EU countries are struggling to achieve even a fraction of 1% growth Belgium's economy is booming - 7% growth according to some analysists. Whilst I remain sceptical about the relevance of growth as a measure of prosperity it is interesting to note that Belgium has achieved this growth despite the fact that it has not had a government for 15 months or so - the politicians are still squabbling over who will get to ride in the ministerial cars as a result of their last election.
Maybe we should sack the politicians?

BAYGON,

That's interesting because I posted a link from CNN showing European debt at a glance and Belgium registered 96.8 percent on the amount of government debt as percentage of its annual GNP - in comparison, Portugal registered 93. Greece registers 142 and Italy, 119 and Ireland 96.2. So it appears Belgium has a debt problem as well, although not as bad as Greece, but worse than Portugal. (these are figures from 2010 and gave Belgium a GDP growth rate of 2.2 percent)

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/06/19/europe.debt.explainer/index.html?hpt_t2

Current GFC thread is also about this subject.
I am a bit baffled why we would blame only politicians.
Unless it is for not imprisoning many thousand investment criminals.
We need to be aware, this crisis is not over and no plan is on the table to fix it.
One will come,maybe after it falls over totally.
And our freedoms will become less .

baygon quote..""Maybe we should sack the politicians?""

this only makes things worse
a new batch of ignorants..who can put the blame on the previous generation[look how obama got sucked into what busche set up]..and soon watch juliar stuff up rudd barely got a grasp of

i know i sent..many emmails to rudd..and swan
[even got a thankyou for it]

my tip then..was to bailout..*from the bottum
as top down bailout..only inflates the big end of town

note how bailing out the banks..has created the resouces bubble[for egsample]

""we are treated to stories..about the economic crisis:""

yes to help guide investment..into resources..
or banks..its all just too clever

""will Greece/default?"'

think of it like this
if you give a broke drunk..a new checkbook..[bailout]
how is he not going to waste his new credit...on the same thing?

""Will the developed/world ever manage..to restore economic growth?""

growth is a kensian delusion
think how bankrupts pay cents on the dollar

and how credit is created...by simple book entry..in the virtual dimension

all 'money'[and credit]....was created..out of thin air
but we need to pay ursury[intrest]..that can only come from money (others defaulted on..[ie we create the debt..but not the intrest]

""austerity packages..be austere enough to get""..[the pigs]

think of it like this
you own a business..will sending your custemers broke
pay off your debt?

the pigs..bailed out the banks
now the poor owe the debt..they cop the ursury
while the bankers trade it away on the booming commodities market...and so

the poor need to pay tripple..for their petrol/coal food/services etc

we will soon face food riots
as we convert corn into bio-fuel
[who get a nice govt bailout[sorry subsidy]

the system has gone nuts
without taxing the movement of money globally
via a transaction tax..the system goes bust..this year

[but then govt could simply
seize the assets..and finally..jail the crooks

even with the bankers..fraud]..printing ever more paper
or issuing more credit..[even with govt bonds..more paper]

your super..buys wothless/bonds
so affectivly even that promise of..cash
you think you hold in super
is only a vague promise[bond]...

of no real worth*[value]..

""Will we need a stimulus package
to reduce unemployment and kick start economic growth?""

we dont..
all we need really do is tax transactions
and revalue the face value of metal coins..by a facter of 10
[or eventually 100]..so that worthless one cent piece
has the true value of one dollar..

consumers go back to spending
and even the poorest has gotten the real value of coin restored

[see coin was once silver and gold
a 5 cent piece [sorry sixpence]..has in it 5 dollars of sterling silver..the 5 cent piece has in it arround 10 cents of nickle

just like a one cent piece
used to have 6 cents of copper in it
so they took them away..[just like they stole our silver coin in 66
and our gold coins earlier in the last century]

we only need to restore the real values back into coin

ps..the total costs og printed notes is 7 cents each
a computer entry for credit costs one tenth of a cent

we been scammed by thieves
so a transaction tax on all stock trading
and all money exchange..seems only fair..that and restoring true values back into coin

ps grece need only re introduce its traditional coinage
at todfays silver gold values..and govt can once again use its rights of signorage

and usa using only 12 coins
with a total face value of 44point 4 billion
can buy back the federal reserve..and fort knox gold

[except reportedly the gold has been leased to the member banks
[who sold it onto the gold markket long ago...

just like they did with the silver coin.
.and the copper coin..the also stole from govt..[US..!]

before getting into the bad mess
and govt bailing the fools out

govts should hace seized back the banks when they went broke
and investers would have been luckey
to get the traditional banruptcy payoff..

of cents on the dollar

better govt bailout our us..who lost our money last time
by seizing the assets and keeping them [us]..at our jobs

purely as an emmergency matter of course

please note what im saying
and not what you think im saying

we CAN-NOT..go back to gold-silver/coin
but can adjust the face-value..of the nickle and cupra-nickle/coin
to restore BACK into its face..

the intended value..STOLEN..*from us
by the colluded theft..of the silver/gold..[values]..they traditionally HELD*

the gold..is gone
the silver..is gone
but under the sovereign right..of seignorage
its true/value..[that inflation chewed away..can return]

govt will mint the coins by face value
even be bound to pay only in coin..[not bonds]

the poor people..get their income in coin
with the new-face values

and industry..keeps doing what it does with paper/credit
[only govt oversees..the printing/issueing..of it..not the bankers]

you will have noticed..the fat-cats at their meeting[banker]
hundreds of them..all sucking it in off the money franchise
they colluded to steal..from govt globally way back in the 30's
[read the freature from jeckle island]..that explains who done it

thing is..that we have her majesties/head..on coin
this is her sovereign guarentee..of its quality
[ie in gold/silver etc..]

as stated..in the federal/constitution
""the only lawfull tender..shall be gold/silver coin""

well its now gold/colour..and silver/color
but lacking..the gold/silver..VALUES*

so its only fair..the real*values..return back into..real coin!

business will be legislated..to give real/values
according to the new face values

they can trade in notes[and keep the pigs/debts in euro's]
but sepperation of powers..makes govt *only to issue coin

law is whatever govt says it is
govts could save us all

who bennifits
if the system meltsdown?

who is the ultimate holder..[security]..of the bonds and securities?

ie who own the money...[the people]..
a govt is there to protect..the intrests of people..[the living]

but by clever legal/fraud..people became lawfull..'persons'
and dead corperations...are the only legal person..!

but i eplained this so many times

what happend essentially..is dead persons[corperations]
subverted..the rights of living persons..

and ignorant zombie corperations..
[the dead]..lord it over..[us]..the living

govt is serving..a dead corperate corpse
and in the process..killing the true trust..[living people]

bring back..honour to coin
only..the coin-age..can save us

Here here OUG, I think now is the tme we put this tax to the test. After all, what do we have to loose and, there is little doubt that the current tax system will fail.

The result will be that governments will have little choice other than to furher tax large business, which is exactly what they are starting to consider now.

As for sacking the pollies, well, where would we be if labor had not wasted the billions they hav over the past four years?

Now while we cant sack the pollies, perhaps we could addopt a system that pays more for better peopl, but they must have indemnity insurance, so, in the event they stuff up, they fund the stuff up not us.

Of cause, if they do a good job, then they should get bonuses.

The reality is we pay peanuts and get monkeys, and this is a major part of the problem.

clubman..its sad that so few care about these matters
or realise the importance of structural sepperation
of the real economy..and the gamblers

we call ourselves capitalists..but capitalism..is a thing about giving consumers credit..to buy the latest upgrade..for the latest fad

that others gamble on

its about knowing on fiday people will need to eat fish
that on motherday we will need to buy flowers

that you need to draw money out of your savings[or credit acount]
and those in the know using their PRIVLEDGED..insider knowledge
to predict..this or that company..will announce a big proffit

its like racing horses..many get paid
for going about honest work..[trade/account keeping servicing the gamblers]..but underpinning most of it is some ego driven greedy person..gambling with your savings]

of course its become much more than mearly savings
with things like the centrlised reserves of gold and computer trading
we can trade promises for gold...[3 times all the ammount of gold ever recoverd]..

but because they own enough
to honour those who want the real stuff...
usually a few percent per month]of all who bought their promises

the clever scam goes on
thanks to day traders only needuing a rise or fall..to make todays killing..that in good times covers tomorrows losses..and in bad times sends whole ecomomies broke..[every boom is followed by a boom]

where finally you run out of others money

whole govts globally have been caught up in scams
like you own a sewer system...that you can monetise
by selling it to a banker...and he takes a share of your rateable income..[but you must make a promise to repay..the 'payments']

ie have your cake
but promise to let him have half of it everyday

thats the sort of thing that has seen qld state debt balloon out
to 65 billion last year..and 75 billion in two years

that has seen all the clever scams reap the wind
and seen the cost of electricty gas water double and tripple
so consumers spend[use]..less

so the water company..and power company..need to repay the debt
[or run into the default rate..that sees all needing to be repaid instantly..or move intio a default rate]

so they up the water pressure..so more comes out of the tap
or power point over the set times..charged at ever higher rate

thus we get buirst water mains[economic activity repairing it]
or blown electrical applievces..eco activity replacing them

and aty the head is those with the info
of what we are bying,.,.with our special dicount cards

info is knowledge
insider knowledge..that lets you have the inside track
that lets you sell shares you dont even own..KNOWING..the market will get the info tomorrow..and the shares will fall

its all about knowing qwhich jockey
is riding which horse on what track

which horse will attract the eye of the punters today
and offsetting your losses today..with the win fall tomorrow
[gained by insider knowl;edge]

then there is the other stuff
where banks with your savings go bust
[but banks can only be audited during the day
so at night the cash is on the other side of the world
'working overnight..while your sleping..but it works cause its here next day

till that one night..when the pannic hits the trade floor
and your cash simply speaking..isnt there anymore

then its welcome to my nightmare