We are coming up for the 70th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbour. Suppose the Japanese had postponed their attack till 7 December 2011. What would have happened?

--The Republicans would devote their energies to blaming Obama for “letting it happen.”

--Within three nanoseconds of the news breaking the blogosphere would be filled with conspiracy theories. It was an inside job. Obama organised it to justify overturning the constitution. Mossad did it to distract attention from Israeli “genocide” of the Palestinians. It’s all the fault of the Rothschilds.

--Noam Chomsky(1) would publish a piece in the Guardian explaining that the whole thing was the fault of the United States.

--Tariq Ramadan(2) would publish a piece in the Guardian explaining that the whole thing was the fault of the United States.

--Robert Fisk(3) would publish a piece in the Independent explaining that the whole thing was the fault of the United States.

--Der Spiegel would publish a piece explaining how this was all the fault of the United States and Germany would withdraw from NATO.

--Obama would make a series of speeches.

--Bob Brown would blame Rupert Murdoch.

--The Tea Party leadership would announce that a world war was no reason for raising taxes or increasing spending.

--The UN Council on Human Rights would pass a motion condemning Israel.

--After protracted negotiations between Speak Boehner, Senate Majority Leader McConnel, Senate Minority Leader Reid and Obama, the Congress would pass a bill setting up a bipartisan super-committee to advise on suitable measures, the committee to report back after the 2012 election.

Somehow the need actually to win the war would be neglected and the Japanese would win easily.

Now we know what the Japanese got wrong. They attacked 70 years too soon.

(1) http://www.chomsky.info/

(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_Ramadan

(3) http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/

Steven, partisan politics in the US and all first world nations is flawed, no matter which team you barrack for there can be only one outcome, your nation will become indebted.

The reason for this being the inability to control the destiny of the nation even when you have the numbers, and the reason for that is Free Trade agreements and the dropping of protectionist policies.

Both sides want to stimulate employment which brings prosperity to the domestic economy, and as long as the employed are manufacturing and exporting the balance of trade controls your nation’s debt. But how can politicians in America consider any light at the end of the tunnel with corporate manufacturing already having fled to cheaper climes within ten years of getting the tariff barriers dropped, and small and medium businesses wanting to stay in business also sourcing their stock from OS.

Steven it is like a pantomime, both sides of politics follow the protocols directed from the owners of the global monetary, trade, and manufacturing cabals, and they do not want the first world to be self sufficient, if it is they lose control.

How can any first world government promise anything to any of us regarding future national prosperity when they KNOW the money aint coming back to our nation, they grew up watching the balance of trade swing from west to east , why would things change while their nations have no import duty. We can talk about the right, the left, global warming, climate change, carbon dioxide, green power, the rights of individuals the rights of the masses, the rights of disease spreading Flying Fox’s, but national sovereignty regarding trade is banned. Who banned it.

Pantomime politics, no matter who you vote for you get a bank

re Japanese 70 years too late.

I wonder if WW2 could have been avoided if the Allies had a fraction of the vision the Germans had ?

The Germans had Hitlers visions, the Italians had Mussolini's,the Japanese had the Militarists vision, the Russians had Stalins, the Brits Chamberlains, the US Rosevelts, which vision had vision indy?

Dear SOG,

So who has vision today?

cont'd ...

If politics was run like a Big Corporate Organisation
it would achieve greater results, construct bigger
structures, expand their influence and make bigger
profits and the shareholders would be happy.

You would still be in competition with other corporations
but at least you'd achieve results or go out of
business.

SOG,
Clearly people have trouble looking ahead. That comes from not understanding/learning from the past. It's not their fault entirely though. Take comfort in that. But they could do something about it such as talking with people on the ground rather than reading academic theories.
Vote against the hangers-on parties & take useless bureaucrats to task.
I'd like to see a movement focussing on accountability instead of wasting literally billions on silly schemes dreamt up by Gillard & Co. without consulting the people who provide the funding, the taxpayer.
Vision is as much about looking at past mistakes as it is envisaging what's ahead. Our experts put so much effort & our money into speculating rather than doing with hindsight.
WW2 was not Hitler's vision, it was the result of his vision being hijacked by the fanatic Nazis.

individual:>> WW2 was not Hitler's vision, it was the result of his vision being hijacked by the fanatic Nazis.<<

That is so wrong on so many levels. Read My Struggle by Hitler, it is all laid out there in between his turgid prose.

Lexi how can any nation have a vision given globalization has made national protection decisions redundant at Federal level. We can't pick and choose what products enter our domestic market and we have no control of pricing, nor do we control our boarders and who enters, the UN has seen to that. All our government can do is push US around and lobby for jobs with the UN after that is accomplished.

SOG,
I'm sure he head plenty of time to write in the bunker where he ended up.

Indy, this bunker?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM5f_gZT06c&feature=related

The Japs went to war because the West was restricting their trade and they having no oil or much in the way of resources were rightfully fearful of being sujgated by the West.Japan also in this era was one of the world's leading manufacturers and they had a banking system free from the Private Western Central Banksters debt based banking system.

We in Australia warned the USA that Japan was on its way but they ignored us.The US people didn't want war so the US Govt let it happen.Hence before the events of 911 we hear the neo-cons calling for a "New Pearl Harbour" Zbigniew Brezezinski," What we need is a truely massive and widely perceived direct external threat." That threat was contrived terrorism.

Last year Zbigniew said," It the past it was easier to control a million people that kill them.Today it is infinietly easier to kill a million people than control them." Zibigniew was the chief foreign policy adviser to Jimmy Carter and is still a major influence on Obama today.

SOG,
I shudder at the mentality of people who use atrocities as a base for brainless fun.
I wonder how they'd act were they cornered in every which way. Is the benefit of hindsight wasted on too many people or rather humanoids ?

You could take this a bit further Steven. If they had waited until mid 2012 Obama would have completed the job of defeating the US for them.

By then even near bankrupt Japan will be able to walk into the place & buy it with their spare change. Not a shot need be fired.

Of course it may be too late for them by then. China will all ready own the place, & it probably won't be for sale.

Steven, you forgot one obvious comment;

Julia would have said it is just another scare tactic by Tony.

Yeah, right, Arjay. So it was all the fault of Jewish bankers then ?

You are trying to put your loudmouth pre-conceptions into my sentences.I made no mention of Jewish Bankers.I talked about trade embagoes,oil,resources and the fact the Japan had an independant banking system from the West.

I also detest CO2 doubters in connection to AGW been called deniers as if they are holocaust deniers.

"I also detest CO2 doubters in connection to AGW been called deniers as if they are holocaust deniers."

I fully agree, Arjay. That must be a first :) Perhaps it's a bit irrelevant though ?

Dear Steven,

I'm not sure that the Japanese attacking the US today would
get things right.

Firstly they'd be breaking their so-called "Pacifist Clause,"
in their country's post-war constitution.

Secondly, the US needs Japan to underscore the growth of
tensions in the Asia-Pacific region. There are also countries
of mutual concern - like North Korea and above all - China.
Both the US and Japan are concerned with the expansion of Chinese influence.
They need to co-operate at this time and exchange views on
China and where its headed.

To bomb the US today - would again be - bad timing for the
Japanese.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Arjay.

>>Japan also in this era was one of the world's leading manufacturers and they had a banking system free from the Private Western Central Banksters debt based banking system.<<

This particular banking system a) was also "debt-based", and b) has also kept Japan in recession for the past twenty years.

What was your point again?

>>WW2 was not Hitler's vision, it was the result of his vision being hijacked by the fanatic Nazis.>>

LOL

Individual, with your talent for reality disconnect you could have a lucrative career in journalism.

Hasbeen wrote:

>>If they [the Japanese] had waited until mid 2012 Obama would have completed the job of defeating the US for them.>>

Before discussing the sins of the Obama administration you may want to study this graphic.

See: The Chart That Should Accompany All Discussions of the Debt Ceiling

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/07/the-chart-that-should-accompany-all-discussions-of-the-debt-ceiling/242484/

A president who goes to war AND cuts taxes has a reality disconnect that equals that demonstrated by “Individual” with his Hitler vision remarks.

BTW you do know that China itself has a debt problem that rivals that of the US? However they may be able to grow their way out of it.

Bazz wrote

>>Julia would have said it is just another scare tactic by Tony.>>

Agreed.

Here’s my problem.

The amount of silliness in the world is infinite but I was limited to 350 words. :-)

So "we" Australians warned the US that war was coming and they ignored us"
Very insightful of us arjay for us to know the war was coming and the US didn't. Did we actually predict that is was coming on Sunday morning Dec.7 1941? And again...you obviously read this in Green Left Weekly?

Arjay;
The trade embargoes were placed on Japan pre war because they
had invaded China and were committing atrocities.

Also remember the Co Prosperity scheme which would have included Australia.

Actually kman;
the US had a pretty good idea the Japanese were up to
something but did not know what.
Despite "common" knowledge Pearl Harbour was attacked second after an
attack in Malaya.

Lexi;
The existence of clauses have never had much influence on acts of war.
Anyway in the hypothetical there was no 39-45 war.

Dear Bazz,

Of course. However, it depends how the ruling
elites view those clauses today, what's in
the country's interests, and what the nation
also will or will not support. Japan has much
to gain from a US alliance - and vice-versa.

"Actually kman;
the US had a pretty good idea the Japanese were up to
something but did not know what."

Yes I know Bazz I was just busting arjays chops.