you laugh at tony saying its a weightless gas
yet we got lighter than air gas...[like hydrogen]
that when compressed in bottle has weight..yet when NOT COMPRESSED/..floats...how much floating gas weighs a ton?

but back to your victim...[john brown]
..who cant afford any more BAD press
yet dares say

""that there is a discernible human influence
on the climate,""

our scientists cant definitivlty say whats causing it
[ie wether its methane..or ntitrous oxide or c02
cause the data is fuzzy

""and a link between the concentration
of carbon dioxide and the increase in temperature.""

remains speculative at best
cause there are SO MANY GRENHOUSE GASSES
[and we make many of them..too many to make much noise about FINALLY being taxed on just one of them..!

""The time to consider the policy dimensions
of climate change is not..when the link between greenhouse gases* and climate change is conclusively proven""...

lol

""but when the possibility
cannot be discounted""

ie it may be a contributing cause

""and is taken seriously
by the society of which we are part.""

and its them who will be paying it

""We in BP have reached that point."

yeah
throwing his hands up
at the collective insanity of it all

lol

you wannna pay it
go for it

just dont be saying its proven
cause its not..!

It seems to me that this thread has now suffered
from a total breakdown in communication.

This is a pity because the subject matter is one
which has considerable significance to the future
of this planet and its on discussion forums that
topics of such importance should be able to be discussed
rationally.

Eclipse Now

I sent an request to OLO for my email to be passed onto you. If course, I'll never know for sure if it has been.

Anyway, some latest news from data I have previously referenced:

"Plants and animals are responding up to three times faster to climate change than previously estimated, as wildlife shifts to cooler altitudes and latitudes, researchers said on Thursday.

Scientists have reported this decade on individual species that moved toward the poles or uphill as their traditional habitats shifted due to global warming, but this study analyzed data on over 2,000 species to get a more comprehensive picture.

In this analysis, researchers found that on average, wildlife moved to higher elevations at the rate of about 40 feet per decade.

They are moving toward the poles at an average rate of 10.31 miles a decade, scientists reported in the journal Science.

The altitude shift is twice what scientists had estimated as recently as 2003, according to Chris Thomas, a professor of conservation biology at the University of York in Britain, and the leader of the project.

The average latitude shift is triple earlier estimates, Thomas said in a telephone interview. But he noted that not all species move toward the poles as quickly as that, some don't move much at all and others actually move slightly toward the Equator, depending on what they need most to survive.

What became clear in this study, Thomas and the other authors said, was that species moved furthest in places where the climate warmed most, an unambiguous link to climate change over the last 40 years...

... "Because each species is affected by different things ... when the climate changes, they will have different availabilities of new habitat that they might be able to move into," he said.

Not every animal or plant shifts to a cooler place when its habitat heats up, because of pressure from other factors like rainfall, human development and habitat loss..."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=wildlife-responds-fast-to-clim

at least ammonite allways offers some evidence
and i like that about you

what i dont like is scientists that go minning for data
then relating their selections..into money making topics

take this issue of warming
if you recall only a few years ago it was allways warming
then the data reveals cooling..so to keep the spin going it became climate change..[this might be a small point]..but is the way it is

justy like when maggie thatcher came up with the scam
before john howhard jumped on it..was THEN global cooling
but then we got a hole in the ozone layer..[recall the adverts of the time..of a parched desert..if we didnt convert our hairspray and fridges over to non global warming gas?]

anyhow lets see about temp
its well known..that in the south
we need a north facing room..to catch the heat

so when some science nutter says one degree temp change
will mke races of anuimals extinct..the question arises...what about micro-climates..[ie sun side or shade side]..

or for that matter what about these poor delicate critters..
that will die from a few degrees..when night falls and the temp drops 10 plus degrees at night

or them poor critters that must die as winter comes[or summer]
and the temp goes from minus to 50 degrees in the shade

hopw these poor things survived nuclear winters
or survived at all seems a miracle
top say the least

see the thing is we stopped thinking
we take the piuint that makes our point
then put up the link..and say arnt we clever
stop thinking..and accept the spin as truth..pay your tax and say that tax is saving the poor deklicate critters

SO TELL ME
how much TAX is going TO SAVE THESE POOR CRITTERS?
that are too dumb to find a warmer or colder spot

its just so much twaddle
that semingly will never end
till we get the new commodity to the money traders

pay your tax
and we will stop threatening the poor critters
just like we did with ozone..!