Or perhaps the plan is for this to be a cheap upgrade for Telstra

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/252963,telstra-best-placed-to-exploit-nbn-fire-sale.aspx

""No private equity firm could come in here and say we'll buy the NBN because [the NBN] doesn't work unless you've got the customers, [and] Telstra owns the majority of customers.

"So if the NBN fails - and I think ultimately it will, that's not me being an anti-NBN blah blah blah - as a pure businessman I look at this and think this is a bad investment and this will fail. If that's the case, Telstra is in my opinion the only possible buyer.

"They've got their [4G] spectrum, they've got their money, they get to buy [a fixed network] back for 20c in the dollar," Slattery said, to nervous laughter."

Sounds altogether too much like the sort of reasoning a group of hard-nosed businessmen such as Telstra's board might use, don't you think? In this scenario, Conroy dips out altogether, which might make more sense, given his efforts to bowdlerise the web.

Just for the record, BTW, the NDN doesn't have "unlimited" bandwidth either. It uses a PON system that has 32 users connected to each node, not unlike the way HFC has a variable but set maximum number of users per node. If a ot of the users choose hig-bandwidth connections, the speed of all of the conections slows down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_network

Further, the whole productivity issue is showing itself to be no more than wishful thinking.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/productivity-claims-alone-dont-justify-nbn-339320721.htm

"We face similar challenges of definition in Australia, where fevered debate about the NBN has been polarised between those who demand hard numbers to justify its substantial investment and those who, having taken the project's merits on faith, gild their statistical liberties with procedural assumptions to back their foregone conclusions."

Sound like anyone you know?

Rstuart,

"Secondly the argument "we are spending too much to build something that people can't pay for and won't use" only makes sense if in fact they can't pay for it and won't use it."

The same would apply if the government installed new water lines to each house, cut off the alternative supply, and charged double the price. People would use it because they had to, not because they wanted to. This is the inherent danger of Labor inspired state monopolies.

oops, didn't link to the audio interview on li-fi

Here it is

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/9566689.stm

SM's point about this having to be an artificial monopoly to succeed is absolutely correct

@Antiseptic: Here's a link to an interview with a developer of the technology. Have a listen, it's only a few minutes long.

Sadly it tried to set up an RTP link, which didn't make it through my firewall. Besides 18 minutes is not "a few minutes" in my book.

Visible light being be stopped by rain, fog, leaf or dust raised by a passing car means I put the idea of using light frequency broadcast wireless to implement the NBN into the same class as saying we will be able to solve Peak Oil using the Joe Cell: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Joe_Cell Also notice how they are rolling out the NBN now, and broadcast Li-Fi isn't shipping now, and may never ship.

As for the rest: it isn't difficult to find people asserting all manner of things, just like Joe above. I prefer to look at the basis of those assertions. I notice Bevan Slattery didn't give any for his claim the NBN will fail. It is a pretty bold claim, given it will be profitable if it just collects the broadband payments being made now and they will have a monopoly, don't you think?.

OK, I know you didn't bother thinking about it, you just accepted it at face value because it happens to agree with your political outlook. But before you do that it in future it might be helpful to look at the speakers background. Bevan Slattery owned Pipe networks. It will be wiped out by the NBN. I imagine he is pretty pissed off about his creation being destroyed.

@Antiseptic: Just for the record, BTW, the NDN doesn't have "unlimited" bandwidth either.

No one said it did, but why bring it up? You say we won't be able to use the capacity it does have. Are you now claiming that is isn't unlimited is also a problem?

Do you actually have a coherent argument, or are you just writing the first thing that comes into your head? Seriously - I do put a bit of thought into what I write here. It would be nice if you did too.

@Shadow Minister: The same would apply if the government installed new water lines to each house, cut off the alternative supply, and charged double the price. ... This is the inherent danger of Labor inspired state monopolies.

You simply can't stick with what we know can you Shadow? If the current reality doesn't suite your argument you just invent your own. That is just sad.

Here are some reality checks:

- We don't know what the NBN prices will be, but on the evidence to date it will be the same.

- In SA the Liberals monopolised electricity generation. Recently it was SA Labor who privatised it. That has been the pattern in most of the states. Typical Labor behaviour indeed! It was Labor _privatising_ road building that got NSW into the current mess. If they to fund it themselves those toll roads would not have been built.

- Once electricity was privatised prices when up. The one state that has lagged the price rises is NSW, because they didn't privatise. That has also been the experience in the US. So much for assertion that government monopolies lead to higher prices for the consumer. Notice NSW roads followed the same pattern.

Funny how that is 180 degrees from your world view Shadow. But then the world is a complex place - I am sure there are counter examples.

I wonder if the reason you are so attached to your blue glasses is they keep the world simple, making it so much easier to deal with. You don't have to look at the issues in any depth at all for starters - you can just uncritically accept whatever rubbish your mates are spouting on the day.

Me, I can't do that. My world is messy, fully of compromises and shades of grey. I rarely accept what anybody says at face value, and I don't identify with anybody in particular as "my side" - certainly no current Australian politician. I imagine my world is a lot more difficult to deal with - but I wouldn't have it any other way.

"We don't know what the NBN prices will be, but on the evidence to date it will be the same."

The evidence to date is that the NBN prices will equal one of the more expensive providers today in 5 years time, defying the global downward trend.

Labor's public private partnership was yet another prime example of a money grab, where a private partner was promised profits by the government closing off competition, and essentially ripping off the consumer.

The occasional sale of public assets by a Labor government is an exception. NSW public electricity generation sells power to the network at a higher price than private assets, and is no way competitive.

Victoria Liberals sold the near bankrupt public Latrobe power stations to private enterprise who could then sell power competitively.