This interesting article http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=26508 discusses the possible relationship between the size of the hippocampus in older people based on their adherence to particular Christian denominations and sub-groups of those denominations.

As the sample size is quite tiny (268) it's possible that the differences are all illusory, but I thought it worthwhile to start a discussion. They also didn't include a control sample of Atheists, so as a non-born-again Protestant I might fancy my measurements against Catholics and charismatics, but have no idea whether my religious adherence is beneficial or not to my overall brain size.

And of course correlation doesn't equal causation.

Graham
The sample group of 268 people is not big enough to make conclusions about atrophy of the hippocampus.

There was a study about happiness on a recent TV documentary and religion was cited as playing a role for many older people as regards their general health and wellbeing suggesting religion should not be dismissed as a factor.

It would be easy to explain the correlation in terms of the rewarding and 'uplifting' experience that so many religious people find give their lives meaning, particularly those that feel they could not live without 'God'.

This article sites stress factors as relevant to the atrophy rate of the hippocampus.

http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v2/n3/abs/4000254a.html

Perhaps that explains why born-again are not protected against the atrophy process (if one takes on board the religious affiliation correlation). If there has been some great stress or life-changing experience that leads one to take up religion later in life, it would fit with the stress correlation.

Some people manage stress better than others, and perhaps for many their religious faith acts as a buffer. I would imagine in that scenario hippies and alternate lifestylers might also do well or those less affected by social and economic pressures. Or those who find ways to deal with stress like meditation, healthy diet, exercise etc.

more info needed
we must remember the hippo is only part of the brain

strongly modified..
by things in the blood..

[like]
rem slep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement_sleep

longterm memory
[hey that might explain trans-generational
[irrational]..blood fueds]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_memory

""During REM sleep high levels of acetylcholine
in the hippocampus suppress feedback....""

http://www.chacha.com/question/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-hippocampus

""The hippocampus is an area buried deep in the forebrain
that helps regulate emotion..and memory.

It is part of the olfactory cortex..

plasticity of the hippo
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1044576584710311

volume
[links to de[pression
https://brainslab.wordpress.com/essays/is-neurogenesis-in-the-hippocampus-linked-to-depression/

if we are looking for the i in me
ie the mind within the brain..

things like this wont cut it
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_hippocampus

but let pretend knowledge explains things
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_hippocampus

"Hippocampus" has three meanings
that might interest you:

1) a legendary creature with the head and forequarters of a horse and the tail of a dolphin or fish

(2) a genus of fishes consisting of the typical sea horses

[To see images, select Google's "image" button,
and type hippocampus in the search box.]

(3) a part of the brain
where information is transferred into memory.

For more information, see

http://biology.about.com/library/organs/brain/blhippocam.htm

http://www.psycheducation.org/emotion/hippocampus.htm

ok
what did the hungry hippo do?

''information is transferred into memory.''

so thats some facts
how about some opinions...!

Dear Pelly,

If you're "born again," does that mean you've got two belly-buttons?

Actual brain size is not that critical Graham, otherwise elephants
would be far smarter then humans :)

In fact there is an operation, whose name I can't remember right now,
where they remove around 40% of the brain. Its when people are
affected by seizures. Some of those people have gone on to go
through university.

Its more about how the brain is wired, which neural connections go
where and how they interact with other regions.

Dear Graham,

Fun topic. It reminds me of my less kind, younger years when the Fundamentalist Christians were referred to as Shabbies. It stood for small heads and big bottoms.

Luckily I'm far more mature, gregarious and sympathetic to the faith of others than I professed back then. :) Though I'm not sure I would get complete agreement from the flock on that point.

Dear Graham, thank you for OLO.

I am suprised that you have time to consider the hippocampus and your potential shrinkage problem.

As the study didn't include any control sample; was based on 268 (as noted) instead of 666 people; and is inconsistent in its comparisons with such a wide observational time-frame of 2 to 8 years - maybe we should all wait for any confirmatory work?

So whilst yours may be bigger than mine it may not be if we wait a sufficient length... of time.

Advice for those who type hippocampus into Google's predictive search window... when you see Hippocampus erectus, don't bother clicking, they are seahorses!

Here's the original paper:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0017006;jsessionid=BA51D2F404B28175BF9C211F93F5569E.ambra01

It's not very indicative of anything really. Except if true, then being a 'born again' or Catholic is probably a bit of liability in your old age. But then everyone already knew that didn't they?

why dont you ever ask me the easy questions lexey

the 2 birth has no physical/umbilical cord
bnut does have the silver cord..[flux/flowing]..to spirit

the 'spirit' cord...stays with us for ever
[unlike the physical life support cord..we got here...
[who's scar is the belly button]

it was hoped you would ask what it feels like
..ie the soul body..leaving the physical body..
[like slipping your hand..out of a wet glove]

and there you stand revealed
in your earned astral body
that if good radiates your goodness
or if vile....dampens your inner light

the good thing is in time we go to our next birth
into our light body....

[or comeback here
in whatever type body suits
our beastial nature..best..[this time]

anyhow the key to the hippocampuss
lies in the energy we seek to surround it with

One thing that fascinates me about this sort of research is why do it in the first place, and who funds it? As I noted, sample is too small to know anything relevant - so someone has wasted their money.

But then I thought the speculations could be fun. I can see some rationalisation for the fundamentalists or pentecostalists to have something different going on, but I always thought what mainstream denomination you were in was more a case of demographics than anything else. If you're Irish or southern European, or Latin American, then you are most likely going to be Roman Catholic, and if you're northern European or North American you are most likely going to be Protestant.

While I think Catholicism is less rational than Protestantism, I don't think there is much difference between the adherents of either side.

I would have thought frequency of church attendance would be a more (but not particularly) likely indicator of something.

as to who funds things like this

http://www.healthcanal.com/brain-nerves/17250-Religious-Factors-May-Influence-Changes-the-Brain.html

""This study was funded by National Institutes of Health grants MH54846,MH60451,and MH70027,and the John Templeton Foundation.""

that seems as close as we can get
but here is the thing...[anyone with the numbers..for say altzheimers
can pick a sub-group..*out of its larger numbers]

and while they say a follow up period
that too could be under the 'other' research

its more a matter of finding out
why johnson wanted this fact specificly...picked out

it could be as simple as having a grant
and the numbers allready in a computer

without the source codes..[origonal pre/re-search]
being quoted specificly..its a buzz piece

""Study participants who reported having had a religious experience that changed their life were also found to have more atrophy in the hippocampus than those who did not.

The study measured relationships between religious factors and changes in the volume of the hippocampus over time in older adults. In standardised interviews,

268 people aged 58-84 were asked about their religious group, spiritual practices, and life-changing religious experiences.

Changes in the volume of their hippocampus were then tracked, using MRI scans, over a period of two to eight years.

Authors Amy Owen and David Hayward, both Ph.D research associates, said these findings...*were not explained by other factors related to hippocampal atrophy,..[such as age, education, social support from friends and family, being depressed, or brain size.]

In addition, other religious factors (such as prayer, meditation, or Bible study)...*did not predict changes in the volume of the hippocampus in this study.

The authors speculate that stress
might play a role in their findings.

This study is among the first to examine religious and spiritual links....*to changes in volume of specific areas in the brain,
and is the first to explore religious factors
such as life-changing religious experiences.

Rather than suggesting that...*particular religious experiences or groups should be avoided or promoted,..the emphasis of this study was to help clarify..possible relationships between religion and the brain,..the report added.

Other studies have suggested new thoughts actually create new neural connections.
Perhaps the overall size of the brain is less important than the number of synapses.
Who would have more 'new thoughts' I wonder? A committed Theist who accepts that 'this is so'? Or...

a grim insight...""Who would have more 'new thoughts'..

A committed Theist
who accepts that 'this is so'?

Or...""

i guess it it whoever is getting
the most 'new' inputs

a fixed minded athiest/religionist
is as close minded mind numb dullard
as..a think to know it all..religionist/athieast

but new neuron connections
hasnt got a lot to do..with assimulating it's info
[new info..needs to be logically processed/judged etc][ie the hungy hippo]

its this..that suits the 'growth' of the hippo
[to wit..*using it..increases the bloodflow...
and strengthens its linkages
to neurons/nerves/muscles

and neurons connections
with/to yet other neurons

[the key bit needs be where they inter-sect..[inter/connect]

the key as you suggested
is in...who is having..the new thoughts
yet ithink the hippo is about processing the links

quality
..not quantity

"Significantly greater hippocampal atrophy was also observed from baseline to final assessment among born-again Protestants, Catholics, and those with no religious affiliation, compared with Protestants not identifying as born-again."

Why on earth were they wanting to compare the hippocampus of people with no religious affiliation and various Christian sub groups?

People with no religious affiliation, Catholics and born agains had hippocampi that atrophied quicker but what about the rest of the brain? I just wonder why they picked a small area of the brain and did this?

According to this absurd topic, the brains of cetaceans, being larger than any human's must mean that they are the most religious and christian creatures on earth.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=are-whales-smarter-than-we-are

Time to put down your rulers and edge quietly away from each other.

Ammonite they're looking at size of the various brains versus healthy brains, not size per se. And they're not making any claims about the size of the brain and Christianity, just relative sizes of a specific part of the human brain that degrades with time and particularly with Alzheimer's disease.

Graham

I know that - out of a test sample of 264 people. I really thought you were trying to be humorous.

You can't be serious. And now you are linking this very non-scientific test with Alzheimer's? Are you suggesting the Christians are less likely to develop dementia?

OLO the gift that keeps on giving (thanks Pericles).

I'm not suggesting anything, just correcting your post. It might not make a lot of sense what they've done, but at least we should describe it accurately.

I wasn't trying to be humourous, just see what came out of it.

OH

Thank you for your clarification.

I think.

'One thing that fascinates me about this sort of research is why do it in the first place, and who funds it?'

That's always my first question with loads of 'studies' out there.

Studies about who does housework is always the one the bemuses me the most.