Osama Bin Laden is dead.

And I am relieved. While I wish he could've been captured and brought to trial for his unspeakable crimes against many many people, be they black, white, Islamic, Christian, male or female.

He is no longer a presence on our planet and while Al Qaeda will continue - it has lost a highly influential figure-head.

Ammonite I was thinking about similar issues earlier in the week.

I came across some material on federal MP Mike Kelly's role in an execution in Somalia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Kelly_%28Australian_politician%29

There was other material elsewhere where he talks about his feelings at the time.

The death penalty has some big downsides but some people are better off dead.

R0bert

R0bert

From what little I've heard it must have been something of a bloodbath in the compound in Pakistan, 20 or more Al Qaeda men were shot along with Bin Laden.

I wonder just how much of a martyr will be made out of this terrorist.

I am happy that this event took place on President Obama's watch. Will help put a lid on those Tea-Party nutters.

It will need to be very big to stop the idiot tea party.
He is dead, we are better for it.
But those who using religion as a reason to hate will do every thing they can to pay the west back.
My concern is just how much should the west trust Pakistan?

Belly

From what I understand Pakistan was involved in the build up to today's coup. The USA had help from Pakistanis.

Soon we will see where the cards fall.

The death of Osama bin Laden does not mean the end of terrorism. The impact of his death won't yet be known, DFAT is currently updating travel warnings. One man does not make a terrorist movement but his death is symbolic if that means anything at all in the whole horrible mess.

Al Quai'da and other terrorist groups remain and until the problems in the Middle East are sorted out and until democracy is the norm rather than the exception there is some way to go.

"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." — Mark Twain

I agree with pelican that the impact of bin Laden's death will be largely symbolic - as he was a symbol in life.

If I was to be a little cynical, I would say that this announcement comes as a shot in the arm to the Obama Administration - and to a rapidly sliding America as a whole.

Osama's death at the hands of the americans will herald the dawn of terrorism. Thus far they only had practise runs.

I had heard that they killed the mastermind of the 911 travesty, and fully expected to see a dead Donald Rumsfeld or at least George W Bush, but instead they shot some Arab.

Just a comment on the vibe of this un imformed thread, so obviously brimming with the indignation of the righteous against the first world’s evil incarnate. With so much hate exhibited towards Bin Laden visibly the media don't need to stick sponges to you lot to help you absorb the spin and dribble from a world power bereft of everything except a Military Industrial Complex and the need for a boogie man to keep the full metal jackets rolling off the production line.

Gloin,

"un imformed"? Yeeeah...

You should read about what Al Qaeda has been doing to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. If you've got the stomach for it, of course.

“I had heard that they killed the mastermind of the 911 travesty, and fully expected to see a dead Donald Rumsfeld or at least George W Bush, but instead they shot some Arab.”

Threads first giggle. Well I giggled. In a serious way mind.

And he gets a burial at sea incase people visit his grave… that seemed weird or I couldn’t get the logic.

So my kid comes in and goes how they just saw on facebook how we’re all going to die cause someone killed Osama and insists on watching the Obama speech on my TV. Then the kid asks what my forum is saying about it which a few hours ago the answer to was “nuffink”. My only comment to kid about the whole thing was it seemed strange that it took 10 years to track him down living in a bloody great mansion but luckily it didn’t interfere with that damn wedding, or he’d just returned from it.

The family source of political commentary I’m not.

Sonofgloin,

Its so funny that you magine yourself to be resistant to spin, whilst at the same time you regurgitate, almost verbatim, the stock standard pseudo revolutionary mantra's.

Military-industrial-complex?

Right on man, fight the power. Don't let the man get you down, man.

sonofgloin
It is no secret that the 'war on terror' was forged on false claims about WMDs and sales of uranium. It is no secret that those who opposed the war or disclosed information about the false claims early on felt the full force of retaliation.

There are many injustices perpetrated by those of the ilk of Cheney, Rumsfeld etal however I am not going to lament OBL's passing given he killed thousands of his own people, was responsible for terrorist acts and continued the oppression of women.

There can be more than one despot in a war.

I note also Jewely, the burial at sea thing. It is most strange that the only evidence we see of Bin Laden's death is some pictures coming out of Pakistan apparently.

If you were the Mafia you would consider burial at sea as the best method of disposing of a person's remains and destroy the forensic evidence.

As an Australian witness to 9/11 stated on ABC radio on the way home, I too, am a little disturbed if not saddened by the celebrations occurring in the States over Bin Laden's death.

I would have thought that the American public would have also preferred to have seen Bin Laden captured,tried and brought to justice, rather than arbitrarily executed or killed during the course of war. In the interests of full disclosure and the truth.

Perhaps BL's capture was too much of a political hot potato for the U.S., and it was best to end it now ?. Or perhaps he's not dead at all and did some sort of deal ?.

He was known for his business acumen.

Or perhaps the whole thing is a beat up ?.

How would you know ?.

Thinker 2,

The fact is that we don't know - and we will probably never know. Anytime this sort of announcement took place was always going to set off wild hysteria in the U.S. - evidence or no evidence...perhaps we'll see some.

Burial at sea sounds like a good way to dispose of a story that was not accompanied by supporting evidence.

Who knows what goes on...

I do remember back in the late nineties on a very crucial day in the Clinton/Lewinsky saga - I think we were waiting to hear about impeachment proceedings...the world was waiting with baited breath - and next thing was we heard about the horrific embassy bombings in Africa. I remember thinking at the time how "convenient" it was that they should happen at that particular juncture - took the spotlight right off Clinton n'all.

Perhaps we should keep our eyes on the U.S. - they might have something else they wish to achieve while the hoopla is still going strong.

"I would have thought that the American public would have also preferred to have seen Bin Laden captured,tried and brought to justice, rather than arbitrarily executed or killed during the course of war."

The thought of a drawn out trial is a scary one. It seem a high risk that innocent people would be kidnapped and used as pawns to try and secure Bin Laden's release if he's been taken alive. There may be retailations but at least there is no battle for his release.

I doubt a trial would have brough any more disclosure than we will get in other way's.

R0bert

I'm thrilled for Obama, that he has been able to put this feather
in his cap. Good on him, he deserves it!

Next target - Zawahiri

'I Don't Believe in the Death Penalty but I am Glad he is Dead' Yea typical secular hypocrisy.

We who put the verbal boot so willingly can learn much from reading this thread.
Truly
Just like all sides of politics right now humanity's faults are here to be seen.
I am chuffed to see Comrades here, lamenting it was not American politicians killed.
Always good to know how wrong the few remaining are.
The death of this man is not the death of acts of pure hatred and inhumanity.
He will live on in the lands breeding hate and death as a legend.
12 year old boys will continue to be groomed to kill them selves and other Muslims in his name and a God;.
We too will see death in our country, maybe, supported by people like American haters and a blinding ability to ignore 9/11 Bali Indonesia and lots more to lament it was not a western life lost.
Know you enemy Australia!

they killed the mastermind of the 911 travesty,
Yep, but the travesties that were masterminded in the twin towers are continuing as will terrorist attacks. Both need to be stopped.
Getting rid of one of two problems doesn't solve any problem.

runner I doubt that there is anything definable as "typical secular hypocrisy"

What you attack is really an acknowledgement that life is complex and does not always boil down to neat and clean positions on an issue.

It was an honest recognition of feelings. A lot of believers are capable of the same sort of honesty.

On the other hand there are those who trumpet their morality from the rooftop's and indulge in the lowest acts when they think no one can see. A certain type of believer seem to specialise in that.

R0bert

Posted by PaulL>> Its so funny that you magine yourself to be resistant to spin, whilst at the same time you regurgitate, almost verbatim, the stock standard pseudo revolutionary mantra's.
Military-industrial-complex?
Right on man, fight the power. Don't let the man get you down, man.,<<

PaulL the only comment I have is to direct you to America’s domestic manufacturing GDP of twenty years ago and that number today. The only manufacturing segment that has GROWN is the Military Industrial Complex, yes PaulL there is such a armaments and destruction technology segment and it is growing.

im sad that so many[good and true..like most of you]
chose to act insane...[just like the dancing israelies at 911
or the media footage showing paid acters dancing in the streets at 911

but lets see if were still dancing
when ww3 begins

how many you want to die
[and this is NOTHING to do with killing a media image
the bin larden bogie man...made created promoted by cia/mossad

why mossad i hear you say?

Iranian state TV carries report of Israeli build-up
to premptivlt attack iran....[to wit kill goyam and semite arabs]

hoping to bring in their messiah
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_iran_israel_report

Iranian state television ran a report Monday saying Israeli military aircraft were massing at a U.S. air base in Iraq for a strike on Iran.

Commentary:
All that is missing is an "Al Qaeda Revenge Attack" (
nudge nudge wink wink) and World War 3 cranks up into rock and roll full tilt boogie kill them all and let god sort them out mode.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/177824.html

i knew there was a link
why else the media[zionist owned/controled media]
beating up a man dead for years..see other posts

other stuff
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/will-bin-ladens-death-usher-in-the-end-of-islamophobia-and-war/

http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/02/fake-picture-used-as-osama-bin-laden-was-on-a-forum-in-2010pics/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake?CMP=twt_fd

the more of this you hear
http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=14797

the more shall die
[two thirds if the bible is right]

is it time for truth
or time for more war lies?

do you hate life that much?
live and let live

to quote the new testiment

''let the wheat grow with the tares'
let god sort it out

ignore the drums of war...!
what is israel fighting for?

need i keep searching?

search your heart
its time

I have found the responses to this topic very intriguing - some of the responses I could've predicted, others reveal a level of thoughtfulness that has enlightened me.

@R0bert

Thank you for your reply to Runner. I do feel particularly conflicted by my response to the news of Bin Laden's execution. In an ideal world he would've been brought to trial. In the real world (in the unlikely event he was captured alive) the trial would've been forever and I posit that it would cause more fall-out than what we can expect now.

Radical, inhuman response is practically a given from the fundamentalists. That's what they do - irrespective of their ideology, as Runner has already demonstrated. I am not a hypocrite - I typed the title to this topic as a honest response to the conflict of my beliefs (anti-death penalty) and the relief that after 10 years, Osama Bin Laden's spectre has been removed from this time and place.

I fear the predictable acts of vengeance - that's the thing about vengeance it is forever.

Best of Luck to all of us.

Ammonite

My apologies to you. Believe it or not it was not meant to be a personal attack on you. It does however show that in certain circumstances many who claim to be totally opposed to the death penalty really don't hold that dogma when faced with some evil.

What would of been far worse if Bin Laden was caught and brought to trial by some corrupt UN tribunal who would allow some sleazy lawyer to get him off. Interesting to see how many of the ex Guantanamo Bay innocents who got accepted into the UK as refugess are know off fighting again for Allah and are no doubt committing more atrocicies. Oh the rotten evil US!

My problem is that the "manufacture" of an evil entity is crucial to U.S. support for whatever it feels is it's imperative course of action.

Bin Laden popped up out of nowhere...and to be sure, we will see in the future another personification of evil presented to us in the same fashion.
But the line between fact and fiction is blurred - and we tend to believe what we are told because human morality dictates that on a community level that we must operate by trust.

So, who knows if bin Laden was the danger he was made out to be - or even if his reputation would have existed independently of U.S. efforts. Human's require an "evil" to fear to balance their ideas of right and wrong....and to provide moral "permission" to actions they would normally question.

And even if it's true that he was as presented - how do we know they got him? We only go on the lines we are fed.

I think the world is probably better off without him.
I also think there is enough evidence to believe that he was, at the very least, the figurehead of terrorist groups who carried out a series of evil acts of terrorism in numerous locations against multiple religions & races.
I don't think his death will end terrorism; I fear there may well be some retaliation, but security will also be increased in many areas, in the short term at least, and will need to be maintained until things settle down.
I am a little suspicious of the "burial at sea" thing, but it would heve been a political nightmare and media circus to have brought him in for questioning.
I'm not sure that media streaming of wild celebrations in the USA were necessary or achieved anything positive. I suspect that most of us are satisfied that a "baddie" got what he deserved, but gloating? I don't know about that. Maybe a satisfied smile would have sufficed. That said, I didn't lose a family member in the World Trade Centre or Bali.
It will be intersting to see what happens on the terror front in the coming days/weeks/months.
Thanks

In my passage that we know as life I was a fellow traveler from the left.
Once briefly the very left,communism, then Socialism, now center left of the ALP [that is center unity our right side]
Always it was unfairness that drove me,my fellow travelers too my memory tells me, came along for those reasons.
Just as I grew up so did they, Budapest under Russian guns, Chekoslavakia, even Afghanistan put new light on communism.
It was a union and a pope Solidarity and we know who that pulled the first brick out of the Soviet Union.
I never stopped wanting better for those suffering.
But my old home, the shattered left,direction less left, seems intent on new directions.
Americas enemy's are their Friends, forget the slave like existence of women, the murders of children bombing of innocents.
Just find a way to hate America.
Not me, I know heaven is not there, this is my life, my pride is in standing for good against bad.
Sometimes we forget America does good too.
It did last night, it killed a monster many more to die, many to suffer but My youthful left, caring for some thing while blinded to our own sins has shrunk but learned nothing.
Do not over look the crimes against humanity and your support for them my lost loony left Wil Robinson's without those reasons to exist is not believable

Ammonite
It is one thing to be relieved at the death of an evil person and entirely another to actively seek the death penalty as an option within a judicial system. I can completely understand the mixed feelings regardless of the political implications and ramifications.

It would be like finding out that Jack the Ripper or Charles Manson had died - a sense of relief but not a reason to bring back the death penalty which might be wrongly used against an innocent person in a different scenario.

Most of us got it. :)

The death of Osama bin Laden will probably escalate terrorism in the short term but in the long term it will be but a blip on the progress of the war in opposition to the West.
A thousand years from now he will still be remembered.

In 1170AD the Normans (aka English) invaded Ireland and Dermot Mc Morrough, who invited them in, is still known as "The First Traitor".
What was started then is still going on and I doubt that the Muslims and Arabs in general are any less persistent than the Irish.

So get used to it; the threat of terrorist attacks has become a way of life.

As ye sow ......

OUG,
Yes, I found it terribly saddening to see these morons dancing & carrying on like as if it were something to celebrate. We can't earn any respect displaying this mentality.

*And even if it's true that he was as presented - how do we know they got him? We only go on the lines we are fed.*

Poirot, there are in fact good reasons. If they never got him,
bin Laden would surely be delighted to stand up, make another
video proving the date and thumb his nose at the USA in glee.
That would cost Obama his presidency, you can be sure.

So I'd say they would have been pretty thorough on that one,
well aware of the implications of getting it wrong.

"aka English", Is Mise?

>>In 1170AD the Normans (aka English) invaded Ireland<<

Dermot MacMurrough petitioned Henry II to help him in his feud with Tiernan O'Ruark and Rory O'Connor.

Henry was the great-grandson of William the Conqueror, and was a Norman through and through - his titles included Duke of Normandy, Duke of Aquitaine, Duke of Gascony and Count of Nantes.

He was born in France. He married Eleanor of Aquitaine, a well-known French person. In short, he was no more English than Napoleon

Moreover, the King assigned the task of putting the team together for our bhoyo to his Norman pals - eventually, it was Richard de Clare who got it all together.

To cap it all, when Henry did intervene later, it was because he suspected that Ireland would be the launch-pad for... the Saxon English to retake the country.

I know, Iknow. All foreigners look alike, don't they.

But to mistake the Normans for English, so soon after Hastings, shows a cavalier disregard for key events in history.

Sorry, that was a little OT.

For what it's worth, I agree with Yabby that it was indeed the right man. Obama would have the generals' nuts for golf balls if ever a video showed up.

And with individual too.

Those revellers in America looked exactly the same as the rejoicing throngs we've seen in the past in Islamabad, stomping on the American flag and burning effigies of American presidents.

Tell me what makes them different.

Well put Pericles, if we go back to the first quote about those dancers look again at claims there.
OUG said Israelis danced in the streets after nine eleven, not a chance.
My earlier post is highlighted by the ignoring of the hate seen all of the Muslim world on 9/11 and on show right now.
Sorry but born in very bad times for many, from the need for change.
Having won much change for the better, my old left blindly looks for a reason for its existence.
Hating America and forgetting the sins and awful living conditions for half the world population is not it.
The grubby man is dead,his bigotry that only some humans should rule is not, yet.

Pericles,

Do you means those crowds that burned embassies and murdered a dozen or so UN workers because someone burned their book? Those crowds?

Osama bin laden deliberately set out to kill thousands of civillians in cold blood, for shock value. It was a symbolic act, in the blood of innocents and it was calculated to provoke retaliaton. 3000+ american civillians dead in ONE attack.

Osama Bin Laden had declared war on America, much of the western world, in fact, AND all of its civillians. That people might celebrate the fact that he is dead should be easy to understand

I haven't been watching the news (as I don't watch much telly these days) - although I usually run to turn on CNN or ABC if a "big" story comes up...but, for some reason, I didn't his time.

So I wonder how it goes for me not being witness to all the hysteria. I'm sure repeatedly viewing the whole saga has an effect on people.

I think the "whole" bin Laden thing is fishy, especially this latest episode.
Burial at sea...are you telling me that they undertook all this covert stuff to get bin Laden, then upon locating him (unarmed) blasted the you-know-what out of him - then they go out of their way to say they respected Muslim tradition, washed him, wrapped him and then weighted his body and dumped it unceremoniously into the drink....an interesting scenario....

Btw, Belly, I think OUG was referring to film of a four or five Israelis having a celebration and waving hysterically, with the twin towers burning in the background - apparently from a rented industrial property in an outer suburb of New York....

My visceral response to the death of Osama Bin Laden has found its place in the reptilian part of my brain and the event has now moved into frontal lobe processing. (My inner reptile still rejoices - the bogey man has gone).

@ Runner

Your apology is graciously accepted. My belief that the death penalty achieves nothing by way of preventing further crime has not changed. I would rather that Bin Laden spent the rest of his life in jail, never to be released - that is punishment, he is forced to do nothing but think, whereas death offers no opportunity for self-reflection.

@ Pelican

I never doubted that you and other posters would get it. However, I still appreciate R0bert's comments. :)

@ Poirot

Bin Laden is dead - whether he was assassinated at the Pakistan compound or died earlier of kidney failure (rumours of him requiring to be on dialysis taken into consideration). However, as others have noted it would be too easy for Bin Laden to pop up with another video, therefore I am sure that the US government are 100% sure he is dead.

The US had the choice between bombing the compound to dust or infiltrate. They chose to infiltrate - far more dangerous. One can argue that this was to ensure that they did assassinate Bin Laden or possibly did wish to take him alive - this conundrum is unlikely to ever be determined completely.

We certainly live in interesting times.

Dear Poirot,

The latest reports say OBL was neither armed nor using women as human shields contrary to initial briefings.

While we should give the administration credit for correcting the record one can't help imagine the British giving a far more circumspect account if it were their operation. In some ways we can make allowances for it just being the way things are done in America, especially attempting to make full political capital from the killing, but it is not a good look.

For many it will reinforce the notion of 'American Lies' despite the corrections.

What is the impact of the new facts?

When Ismael Haniyeh, head of the Hamas, said in response to bin Laden's assassination, "we regard this as a continuation of the American policy based on oppression and the shedding of Muslim and Arab blood.", most of the Western world, including myself, was understandably dismissive.

Now, given the circumstances of his death, the words have some veracity.

I agree with Geoffrey Robinson, the best outcome would have been to bring OBL to court, but for me the primary reason would have been to put some distance between the actions of he and his followers and the way the West conducts itself. The determination to act within the law even where OBL was concerned would have sent a powerful message to all sides.

*I agree with Geoffrey Robinson, the best outcome would have been to bring OBL to court*

I have huge respect for Robinson, but in this case I think that
Obama is correct. The thing is, the whole saga would have dragged
on for years, multiple hostages would have been taken to try to
free bin Laden, costing potentially many more lives.

Forget sending messages, so far the Taliban and militant Islam
take their own religious messages far more seriously then any
Western concepts, for which they have nothing but contempt, that
includes democracy.

Now bin Laden is dead, now we can move on. Taking out Zawahiri will
no doubt be next.

Obama was fortunately smart enough to tell Pakistan nothing, unlike
Clinton, who told Pakistan that missiles were coming, so bin Laden
escaped by minutes, when Clinton bombed one of the training compounds.

'Those revellers in America looked exactly the same as the rejoicing throngs we've seen in the past in Islamabad, stomping on the American flag and burning effigies of American presidents.'

And let's not forget the revellers burning effigies of Daryl hair and Greg Chappell.

http://www.theburntbail.com/2006/the-effigy-brothers/

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Pictures/10/10467.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/image/257607.html

Even Captain Dhoni has copped the full treatment before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUEEfZh7GBI

Chilling.

Just a further rumination...
My overall feeling here is that all this "release of detail" is just a little too forthcoming - even copious.

It smacks of something that has been "orchestrated".

My antennas are definitely twitching - and that its not a good sign.

Dear Poirot,

Same.

Mine started with the announcement of the confirming DNA test.

The attack was in the middle of the night and the results were up that morning. Saddam's took around 24 hours to complete after he was captured and that too was a priority. Perhaps techniques have improved but I see questions on the speed of the test are being asked. The current consensus is that it would take 12 hours at a good lab if everybody was working on it and having his sister's DNA would have helped.

Perhaps it was just good planning to have that kind of equipment on board ship.

Mmm.

Well there ya go, I've often thought that Poirot and Csteele
commonly display poor judgement :)

The way I understand it Csteele, they confirmed the story well
before the dna test was even completed, because of the overwhelming
evidence. Those papers and computer hard discs will be a mine
of information.

Have a look at the design of the compound

Well, there ya go, yaself, Yabby.

What makes you think your judgment is so crash hot?

(that is a rhetorical question - no need for reply :) )

Dear Yabby,

No the according to White House sources the DNA results were in before the President made his announcement. After further questioning they are now saying the test was not performed onboard the ship but by troops in Afghanistan.

Was the body taken to the ship only after confirmation which would squeeze the timelines even further or was it only the samples that went?

Let us hope it is all up front from here on.

Csteele, there was word coming through on the American networks
that bin Laden was dead and that Obama was about to issue a
statement about it, well before he actually did. I commonly have
Bloomberg or CNN running in the background, so thats where I heard
it first.

The thing is, the Americans were correct to make a statement, as
already on Twitter the news had gone wild.

Weather samples or the body were flown to Afghanistan is immaterial
really. By helicopter it would be only a very short flight.
In the commercial world, dna results for parenting can be done
the same day.

But recognising bin Laden would not be that difficult. For a start
he is extremely tall.

Now if the Bush regime had performed this little exercise, I too
would ask many questions, for Bush was a dummy. But I rate Obama
as far smarter then that and if he got it wrong, he would become
a global laughing stock and definately lose the next elections. Why would
he risk that?

Poirot, one of your comments intrigued me. You mentioned that you
watch CNN occasionally in one of the threads. What is a Marxist
chick like you doing paying for capitalist tv?

Yabby,

I was a bit a news hound - and I like the Lifestyle Channel (I'm only human, after all)
...but I could probably do without all that now....perhps...well, maybe not :)

Btw, I'm always interested in synchronicity and such like...so, isn't it amazing that we have two lead players, one with the name Obama and one with the name Osama...stranger than fiction.

Ammonite you are welcome. I disagree with you on some issues but that does not excuse the tone of runner's post. It was nice to see a retraction from him.

I'm finding my feelings about this are shifting. Osama dead in an armed battle is one thing, a possible execution without trial of an unarmed man is a different thing.

I still dread the third party harm if he had been taken alive and held for trial but what's coming out at the moment raises concerns.

I wonder if those involved were wearing head camera's. If not they should have been so that the details could be made absolutely clear. For an operation as well planned as that the use of high quality recording devices was an option.

I've also been thinking about a comment made earlier about him being locked up never to be released. I think I've always found that idea more bothersome than capital punishment particularly given the effort authorities go to to prevent suicide.

I don't think anyone should ever be locked up for life without the option of painless suicide being available to them.

R0bert

Yes R0bert the changing nature of the U.S. story is interesting.

As I recall yesterday the reports said that Bin Laden was armed and used his wife as a human shield.

Today the story is that the wife of the unarmed Bin Laden was wounded in the leg trying to defend her husband, who was subsequently shot in the head for offering resistance (albeit unarmed).

Also the U.S. was feigning mock surprise today, with the idea that conspiracy theorists around the world would proclaim a lack of evidence here regarding the death of Osama Bin Laden, and are citing the offensiveness of the photo's they have as a reason for not releasing them.

It all the more becoming like a proclaimed once in a life time UFO sighting with pictorial evidence that the world is left to anticipate with baited breath.

I can hardly wait for tomorrows episode. Where we find out what happened to the other Bin Laden family member
who was apparently rendered away in custody.

*Btw, I'm always interested in synchronicity and such like...*

Poirot, that is just how the human mind functions. See it this way.
In the city of London, millions dream every night. Nobody thinks
more of it. Yet by sheer coincidance, one of their dreams comes
true occasionally. So dreams must be true! Never mind the millions
who dreamt without meanin anything.

*and I like the Lifestyle Channel*

Ok, this is making the bin Laden story look like a Sunday picnic :)
Marxist chick, not so young anymore as she has an older daughter,
Homeschools the younger kid, so not much time for work, but no
mention of a partner bankrolling all this, as she watches the
lifestyle channel. My antennas are twitching here for the
next episode :)

Oh, good one, Yabby....
Nice to know I'm keeping you intrigued.

Actually, I've deliberately avoided mentioning my partner or his profession as it wouldn't be compatible with your idea of me being a "Marxist chick"
I've got my reputation to uphold : )

Dear Yabby,

Perhaps there is a back story I am missing but on the face of it your last post is kinda creepy mate.

Dear R0bert,

Reports now that OBL was assassinated in front of his teenager daughter for being 'uncooperative' and 'resisting'. I would be too if my wife was shot before me.

My childhood Superman comics had the caped crusader claiming he fought for "Truth, justice, and the American way." Perhaps it should instead read "... or the American Way".

Was this a 'Death Squad' of the type we rightly condemn in Iraq?

At the least this was an opportunity lost, at its worst it is a final farewelling of a now historical America, one that I am old enough to miss.

I doubt that it will ever be tested but I have found myself wondering what the legal situation is for foreign soldiers storming a home in an urban area and shooting an unarmed man and as I understand it done without the prior knowledge of the Pakistan government.

Do US soldiers have a legal right to do that in Pakistan?

There may be an existing agreement agreement between the governments which allows that kind of operation but it is an odd situation.

R0bert

Ah Poirot, now it all makes sense.

A chardonay socialist!

We will never know all the facts.

I believe that there was covert cooperation with person(s) of significance within the Pakistani government or military - for reasons of safety for these people will never be known.

"Death Squad"? Again we will never know for sure, I'm thinking that it was - a trial being too fraught, although a trial would bring out new information, that will never emerge now. As some details emerge, such as bin Laden being unarmed I am more inclined to believe that bin Laden was assassinated.

I believe the event was filmed given that still photos of President Obama and his colleagues showed them watching events as they occurred.

@R0bert

Interesting that you view life imprisonment as more inhumane than death penalty. Not sure about this - I try to keep an open mind but I find the arrangement of an execution as completely barbarous and does not lead to a reduction in horrific crimes. I have no sympathy for the likes of bin Laden, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and too many others. As for agreeing with each other - no one agrees with everyone all of the time - I can even be surprised at Runner, still waiting to be surprised by Formersnag :)

In addition to the above - I will remain conflicted regarding the death penalty - innocents may well be executed and it does nothing for the evolution or enlightenment of the human race overall. Which is why I raised this topic, we do feel conflicted if we are to remain open-minded - even people like bin Laden or Charles Manson cause angst and confusion. As I said at the start of this topic a part of me was relieved and glad that bin Laden is dead - but that doesn't make it right.

yabby...you got no idea about syncronicity
[and why should i correct you]

but dreaming has nothing to do with
certain..things happening at the same time

but how you all came to that
from im glad he's dead
is so typical of how things get highjacked

i get a lot of my info from syncronicity
its about being in the right place..at the right time
because nothing is without meaning..once your fully in the moment

there are no co-incidents
life is a stream of consiousness
if your aware that there are constantly events occuring
to help you in any situation...

[miracles happen..because even we
have a bit of god[good]..sustaining us our life]

but its pearl before the ignorant
and generally off topic here

so i said what needed saying
here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4443&page=0

the sunmation being..obama was lied to by his 'advisers'
how is explained at the link

you want to talk specifily about
syn-crone-icity make it a topic
its best demonstrated

i have discussed it here
http://www.celestinevision.com/celestine/forum/index.php

till i got banned..from there
but even that..was syncronousity
i found the next forum..by following
the other bannings..i got here...via syncrinicity

but like anything...if you dont know
you chose to not know

so dont speculate deciets
dreaming aint syncronicty

[but i could be missing something..you got proof]
sincronicity is such a clever thing..you might have a next step

and even if i dont think so..
at this time*..timimg is every*thing
thus..my faith in it..needs to ask..just in case...

Regarding the death penalty, it does deter crime.
Those that are executed never commit another crime and regarding those executed who were later found to be innocent, this is a fault of process not of the punishment as such.

Ammonite I do consider incarceration without the possibility of release as a form of cruelty. At best the incarcerated should always have the option of an early end to it in as painless a manner as possible. Other alternatives seem to be about retribution rather than the wellbeing of society.

I've also got serious concerns about keeping people incarcerated who remain an ongoing genuine risk to others (guards, prisoners etc). There comes a point where execution looks like the least barbaric option.

As you have so well pointed out keeping an open mind on issues is not always easy.

R0bert

just as you can only
know what you know

sometimes its just more important
to listen..than be heard

as we know..the system knows well
how to protect itself

""Maybe one day Arjay
you can tell us we were all wrong
if more information comes to light,"""

lol..see how people talk..like im not even here
the info is all there...but..[it is only found..by looking]

and never found...if the powers that keep secrets want it to not be found

""but if it doesn't
it also remains much more difficult
to prove no conspiracy to people who have already made up their minds.""

they are luckey
its not till more of you
feel the omnipotant forces
move against your thinking..

and try to shut you down,
by ridicules
incarceration..
phyc testing..jail..fire..theft..
disinfranchising you from family friends/peers and society

only then will they join us
with some really strange new theory

but hey we heard them all..
but go ahead..speak
we are listening

but first..
ya got any proof?

oh they kept it
who is they?

lol

i got disconected from web
just trying to post this

of course it happens a few times each time i go online
that and extreemly slow computer..or partial downloads

but hey thats just dodo being a bad server...
not that they read our posts as we type..in real time
but why would they bother..im only repeating things others say

personally i only know
the known knowns that i know
be thankfull you dont have a driving/need..to know[or worse be heard]

far easier to be herd
baaaa baaaa baaa
[just teasing]

ok still not posting
ok try my post quick
[on a new page trick]

Yabby never fear the very left fill a phone box at the ALP conference.
You will be pleased to know once in that box no one, not one of the three of them, knows how to get out.
I think we should enjoy this.
Truly ROTFL funny stuff.
The lefter than left just love being wrong generations of them, so many its a wounder their kids had two feet.
Always hopping around one foot in their mouths then saying it was not me mate!
ww2 Russia stayed out at first, Comrades even did not want to load troops suplys.
Germany invades Russia??
Here think about this do please, the mass murderers lie so much you can tell.
Watch one on TV the second his/her mouth opens you will know they are lieing.
The leader of thes4e mass murdering hate filled enslavers of women, need not worry our lefty will love him or Satan before America

*Yabby never fear the very left fill a phone box at the ALP conference*

Belly, yup I know that. The extreme left are part of the Greens
these days. You then have those that actually care about the
environment and the radical left, all flying the Green flag, as
they have none other to fly.

My questions to Poirot were for a different reasons. I enjoy
her posts and think she is not silly, just deluded :)

Arjay and UOG are different altogether, completely off the planet.
At least I can read Arjay's posts, but I seldom bother with UOG,
so just skip to the next post.

As to America, I am not always pro America. I was not pro Bush's
America, but I think that Obama's America is different and he
shows good judgement.

There was an interesting article today in the West, about the
compound where bin Laden lived. 3m high walls, no visitors ever,
no telephone or internet, no rubbish ever put out, all was burned
within. Only the best of everything was bought, paid in cash, never
credit. Food for about 10 people went in on a regular basis.

The people who lived there had no contact with anyone from the
town, over the 5 years or so.

I very much agree about Piriot and a few who are at this stage of their lives greens.
Remember I too walked in the paddock greens now flounder in, just as sure I was right.
And looking for just the same, idealistic things we can never have.
We humanity, warts and all, can only be what we always are, some times right some times wrong.
In the background ABC Late line is letting a person say Bin Ladin was murdered.
Tell me folks was 9/11 a mass murder? no arjay the insanity of your claims is not selling.
Do human bombs murder or just fight a war of Independence.
Now last the out right blinding lie used like an AK47 every time some in this area speak, Pakistan's whole fabrications every word a lie , are we to judge America badly but not these?
Dick, who shoots his Friends OUG is long gone, has no roll in this and mate surely you know that.
Please let us ask future human bombs explain just before murdering what they are.

Yabby,

As you can imagine, I wasn't pro Bush's Administration either.
I celebrated back then, during the U.S. mid-terms as the wheels began to fall off the neo-con agenda - and I watched avidly as Obama came to prominence....and watched his wonderful speech after he won the election. It's rare that one man can represent so much promise - even a cynic like me couldn't help but be inspired.....

Sadly though, we're a fair way down the track and I can't see that in a system like America's that one man can fulfill his promise. Can you tell me how you see that "Obama's America" differs greatly from "Bushes America" because I assumed that the change by this stage of the game would be palpable....but I just can't see it or feel it.

Poiroit, you make a valid point, ie the difference one man can make
and I think perhaps many expected too much too quickly, which was
unrealistic. Obama was left with an incredible economic mess to
try to sort out and he knows well that if he doesent, he will
be a one term president.

But America ia a fairly divided nation right now. On the one hand
the shrill calls of the Trumps and Palins which to me respresents
the dangerous side of America, OTOH the more moderate, innovative
side of America, which does not want America to be the worlds
policeman and take a very different attitude in foreign policy.
That is shown by the respect that Obama has received from the
rest of the global community, as distinct to the distain in which
Bush/Cheney were held by the same.

Even you would have been thrilled when Michelle started planting
her organic veggie patch in the White House garden:)

I am surprised that there is no concensus that Bin laden should
have been killed asap and his body disposed of quickly.

How many hostages lives have been saved because there is no Bin laden
to be freed ?
Picture the scene; 50 passengers on a bus or hundreds on a train.
"We will shoot them one by one until Bin laden is freed !"

The pressure on the US to release him would have been overwhelming.
About the only other possibility would have been to take him alive
interrogate him and then announce he died of his wounds.

We are not dealing with a "nice clean" war here with soldiers in
uniform. We are dealing with sneak attacks by civilians.
These are the rules set up by the terrorists and so we must comply
with those rules.

I agree very much with your every word Bazz.
Poirot I just want to remind you Camelot never existed.
Even the Kennedy one in the 60,s was rife with human frailty's, sex life's and such.
We are not perfect, America never was never will be.
But they have a great leader Chained to an opposition just as intractable as ours.
If you have lost faith in him, then your days of dreaming are over.
Such as he take small steps small changes, that is all we can expect.
Hope for, he could have been my lifetime dream, Kevin Rudd, what ever is true of Kev he put himself in front of my party's interests.
And produced nothing.
Yet even now he is head and shoulders above our country's failure known as leader.
Take joy in small victory's.
Very few of us can ever win much more than that.
Take time to understand, the second the inhuman grub died he became marter for hate and bitterness not seen in our worlds,unless in Americas Tea Party,the average IQ there's about the same.

Head Of CIA – Reports Obama Watched Bin Laden Die Are Lies, Admits NO LIVE RAID VIDEO FOOTAGE
By: kr3at

For days now several officials inside the US Government
and several corporate media outlets have reported that President Obama and other US officials

./.watched live video footage
of the Osama Bin Laden assassination raid
inside the situation room at the White House.

Screen shots of BS Lying MSM News Headlines read:

"Obama watched live video of Bin Laden raid, US Official says" - CNN

"Obama Watched Bin Laden Die On Live Video
As Shoot-out beamed to White House" - The Daily Mail

"Obama 'Watched Him Die'" -The Sun

All of those stories — LIES!

CIA Chief Admits There Was NO Live Video
Footage Of Osama Bin Laden Compound Raid
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/05/05/head-cia-admits-live-video-footage-osama-bin-laden-compound-raid-22288/

RELEASE THE VIDEO?: CIA HEAD
SAYS VIDEO BLACKED OUT DURING RAID FOR '25 MINUTES'
By: J.T. Waldron

The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events.

Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off.

http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com/2011/05/release-video-cia-head-says-video.html

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/05/05/white-house-psyop-script-falls-apart/
http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/04/no-proof-has-been-offered-suggesting-that-the-official-osama-bin-laden-death-narrative-is-even-remotely-true/
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/dna-sequence-in-24-hours/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42912904/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/05/us-pakistani-chinese-tensions-growing.html
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/178415.html

Sheesh OUG, for once I bother to read one of your posts for a change
and not an ounce of common sense anywhere.

The raid lasted 40 minutes and the claim is that the cameras were
blocked out for 25 minutes. We will probably never know if it
was all filmed or not, it could have been either.

This is where realpolitik and Govt spin are so important. What
matters is outcomes and results. They got him.

I think that beforehand they were so focussed on results, they
most likely did not give much thought about afterwards.

Now if they say that it was all live, there will be a huge outcry
to release the video, which might show that they shot him in
cold blood. That video would be used as a rallying point by
radicals, so best it never appears anywhere. Then the outcry by
the many bleating hearts. They forget its a war.

His daughter seemingly claims that they captured him then shot him.
Could be, it really doesent matter. Somebody who was there will
eventually reveal what happened, but that is alot less of value
then a graphical video.

Its now time to move on, not another 10 years of a bin Laden in
court circus with hostages taken etc.

So whatever the bit of spin, what matters is the end result.
That right now is positive.

Me too yabby, every word.
Over night the Gentlemen who do not exist , said yes he was killed.
And that in his name they will kill many.
Most will be Muslim, that is the practice
Some will be killed by kids too young to understand they are being lied to.
Some will forget the true nature of this hate filled group, that the education is to hate not love other than their own.
You will make no progress with the I hate America mob, but they, you and I will owe America much before this mass murder ends

Anybody missed me? I've been battling computer problems for the past weeks and finally I ended up with a new upgrade, so here I am - back again. I've missed everyone and so much has happened - the Royal Wedding, Obama's popularity falling - and now the death of Bin Laden.

The Royal Wedding was beautifully presented - but I don't think that the Americans handled the Bin Laden matter well. For me at least there are far too many unanswered questions and inconsistencies. However I hope that the man's death will bring some sort of peace to the families of those who died as a result of terrorist actions. I also hope that there will be no retaliation.

If I was cynical - I would make the assumption that US President Obama was not happy at being excluded from the Royal Wedding guest-list however his advisors managed to convince him that he should delay the announcement of Bin Laden's demise for a week until after the Royal Wedding. Reminding him that - being gracious is the "American Way." Also an extra plus is that President Obama's popularity has now risen dramatically in the US. He just may make it for another term.

*I would make the assumption that US President Obama was not happy at being excluded from the Royal Wedding guest-list*

Oh I am sure he would have got an invite, had he let it be known that
he wanted one, Lexi. Methinks you are judging things through your
eyes, rather then his. Unlike Bush or Reagan, who mostly slacked on
the job, Obama has an incredible schedule.

He would no doubt just be yearning to be able to put his feet up
sometime and chill a bit, stuff going to any wedding. That really
is a girl thing.

Dear Yabby,

Americans have big egos. They don't ask as a rule - they take things
(like invites to Royal Weddings) for granted. They are a Superpower! And as for it being a "girl" thing. Tell that to the other World Leaders (even Syria) who were invited! Come-on - which ever way you look at it - it was a snub. Now had the US President been a Republican (like Reagan) that might have been a different story. But a progressive Democrat? So like Blair and Brown (also not invited), Obama was nixed!

You still don't understand the girl guy thing, Lexi.

If girls get an invite, its endless fuss over what they wear.

If guys get an invite, the question is will people be insulted
if they don't go. Meantime let's get on with more interesting
things, like finally shoot Bin Laden next week, if the plans
work out. You don't really understand much about male thinking,
I am afraid.

gabby/quote..""We will probably never know
if it
was all filmed..or not,"""

but your mighty obama..said he watched it gabby
was he lying
was the staged photo..[of all of em..watching the 'action']

that now has blanked/out bits
not mentioned before

then you infuring..he didnt watch it
he said he did..!

there is,a film
and it..like the whole story..has huge gaps

""it could have been either.""
but let's hear..if he did or not
and ask..egsctly to see..*what he did

""This is where realpolitik..and Govt spin are so important.""

spin differs from an out and out lie
and that is what has been going on
lies..from the beginning

""What
matters..is outcomes and results.""

but if the outcome
isnt what/who/how..
it's said it is..

*its a lie

""They got him."""

so they say...!

now his el toilet...el ciarda/fiction
is using..the claim*..he was killed
as excuse to do..some more killing
using retarded children..to kill others..[mauinly arabs...

this is the reason for being..
of 'el/toilet'
its figure head is dead..
lets get some more milage[spin]
from,..the cia's...who owns the franchise?

""they
most likely
did not give much thought about afterwards.""

expected the media../wedding obesions
to be more..of a desteraction..than it ended up being

when will..went back to work
they should have aborted...

as media had to sell something...'believable'
but proved a lie the very next day...lol

""there will be a huge outcry
to release the video,""

yes right up to the head/shot
to see..if thats the..*same obama saw...!

[i suspect the security/agencies..stage things
live time edited/vidio..streaming it..to the pres

but live-streaming a lie
[presidential embedding]

lets put the thing..to rest
have obama..show the last 5 minutes..up untill the kill-shot

if it backs/up
whats been said great..!

if not
why not?

binlarden..was cia trained

""might show that they shot him in
cold blood.""

so what..as long as ...
*it REALLY was him

i dont believe terrorists..[of either side]..claiming he's dead
wether they be yank-lies..jew..or arab's..!

""That video would be used
as a rallying point by
radicals}}

not if its,...as
others say it to be

*big IF...!

""so best..it never appears anywhere.""

best for who
those ..who hide/lie...conspire...murder?

""bleating hearts...They forget its a war"""

war lies are lies all the same
in war there is more.

...""not another 10 years of a bin Laden"""
no now its a faceless cia/mossad agent
pretending to be el toilet

belly

""Over night
the Gentlemen who do not exist
..said yes he was killed.""

look at your word choice
gentlemen...?
mate terrorists..even those wannabe terroists
mate they are scum..hence the choice of name..the toilet

""And that in his name..they will kill many.""
and who put value into a dead name?
via a lie..many lies..

""I will owe America much
before this mass murder ends"""

great thinking eh

you swallow a lie
then end up paying dearly...for swallowing spi

Dear Yabby,

It may make sense to speak of the "male thing" and so on. But the existence of say "the male thing," doesn't, without more, imply anything. It isn't obvious, without more, that shared values need be a criterion for membership. There are infinities of different values in the community. Including feminine men and blokey females.

Lexi see it this way. Its basically like saying that men are taller
then women. That is true, but there are always exceptions.

Obama is a very focussed cool cat right now and he's getting
results. He's got a huge agenda and pressure on him, so the
focus will narrow. Going through all the drama to travel to
go to a wedding for what is little today but a tourist attraction
would no doubt not be high on his agenda.

But I can tell you one thing, if men organised weddings, they
would be rather different then the ones presently taking place :)

I would like to nominate the two threads in OLO on this subject.
Billions of words world wide, thousands of mtres of film gone to air.
With Honorable mention to a few OLO posts.
The the world wide hall of fame.
For miss information, confusion and hiding truth.
Any seconders, quick get your hand up or this burnt out unionist will act like an auctioneer and claim he has one!

it just gets curious and curiouser
now pakies are phot/shopping images
of the so called 'wife'[5th]

wonder how many 'wves' he thinks he has[4?]

but lets look at more photoshop
image maniplulations...only..[pakie this time]...lol
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/passportfakeosamawife.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384420/When-U-S-bombing-started-took-children-moved-cave-Startling-insight-life-Bin-Ladens-young-wife-gave-terror-chief.html

look at the fingers
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/06/article-0-0BE8183200000578-439_634x542.jpg

KILLING UNARMED OSAMA BIN LADEN ‘DOESN’T SERVE JUSTICE’
– ARCHBISHOP ROWAN WILLIAMS
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2011/05/killing-unarmed-osama-bin-laden-doesnt-serve-justice-%E2%80%93-archbishop-rowan-williams/

The Archbishop of Canterbury is at the centre of a row after he criticised the United States for shooting dead the unarmed Osama bin Laden.....[if it even is bin larden...worse if its not]

911
proved 'faulse flag'...
[to kill/to beat up fear/to cover/over the stockmarket collape]
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/05/04/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

fl;ashback
cia admits faking bin lard en/vidio
http://redactednews.blogspot.com/2010/05/cia-admits-making-fake-osama-bin-laden.html

the next boogie man..[to scare the panties.. off you]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13319862

good lying takes practice
http://www.vloggingtheapocalypse.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=210&title=TOPOFF3_2005_Terror_Drill___Virtual_News_Network

far easier to fol a president
in private...while destracting him at the weak points

the movie
to rewrite the 'historic truths
is well under way

soon this movie
will give you the spin

that you will take as some sort of validation..for believing lies
http://redactednews.blogspot.com/2011/05/collapsing-story-of-bin-laden-kill-our.html

closed minds
means deaf ears

why bother

using a boggie man[be it osama/or just 'jews'
is the first ste[p to a police state

dont say you wernt told
http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/06/osama-bin-laden-staged-media-spectacle-to-be-used-to-ramp-up-full-scale-police-state/

keep on gabbling gabby
hope a yabby bites your butt-er

Hey
http://hey.com/

Oug
http://www.abbreviations.com/OUG

How
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/how

about
http://www.about.com/

you
http://www.youtube.com/

use
http://www.library.uq.edu.au/endnote/how_use.html

whole
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=whole&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

sentences
http://www.eslbee.com/sentences.htm

or even
http://www.neveroddoreven.com.au/

GASP!!
http://www.gaspjeans.com.au/Default.asp?c=84330

PARAGRAPHS
http://www.paragraphs.com/

PaulL,

I'll have to give you kudos for your response to OUG...very entertaining!

You're not the first - and won't be the last - to attempt to nudge him into a more conventional style of exposition...don't like your chances, though :)

For those interested, the History channel has been screening an
interesting documentary on the Taliban, going from the Russian
invasion of Afghanistan until the present. No doubt they will
rerun it a few times.

There is alot of interesting background information in there,
interviews with some of the key players, like the amusing
Taliban information minister etc and many more.

For instance, I had not been aware that it was actually Massoud,
the Northern Alliance leader, who brought bin Laden back from
the Sudan to Afghanistan, hoping he could negotiate a peace
settlement between the the Taliban and the NI, when civil war
was happening in the country. It was only later that Omar teamed
up with bin Laden, due to both being extremely religious.

UOG, not sure what your gibberish is about this time. IMHO all
that weed over the years has done some permanent damage, it seems.

oh dear personalisation from gabby
clearly he knows everything..is a lie
but dont want to explain why his version is true

anyhow
i tried to acces the link..[paulie]
but
given the choice

""OUG Oracle Users Group

OUG Operation UnderGround

OUG Ouahigouya,

OUG Online User Guide

OUG One Ugly Guy""

i will stick with one under god
ALL IN LOWER CASE..unlike your link

but such is it with the types such as u and gabby
close enough is good enough..[ask no questions...makeup lies]

its hardly worth responding to your off topic troll
nor gabbies ignorances

so will leave things as they stand

ps
i thought you only capitalise noun's
[naming things]

yours
oug

may be
ouG

its sad you chose to waste your pearls
to find they are only too clearly 'cultured'

read
fake*

not even pearls
let alone pearls of wisdom
wise-dumb?

BTW this is off topic, but Poirot, I thought of you when I saw
an interview on Charlie Rose, with an interesting bloke called
Sal Khan.

http://www.khanacademy.org/

What started as an execise in teaching his niece some maths basics
over distance has now become 2100 educational videos and 53 million
downloads.

He has opened a non profit organisation, bankrolled by some wealthy
donors, but I think his approach could revolutionise education
and learning for many.

It could be handy, if you are homeschooling.

Dear Yabby,

I'm not sure what men organising weddings has to do with the topic at hand. I agree that Obama has a lot on his plate at present. That's nothing new. I'm sure other World Leaders also have their own agendas to deal with however it's usually customary if one cannot accept Royal invitations - one is obliged to send a representative (as President Reagan (Conservative - Republican) did to the wedding of Prince Charles). But of course one needs to be invited in the first place. President Obama (Democrat) did not receive that courtesy as neither did former British Prime Ministers -
Blair and Brown (Labor) whereas their predessor John Major (Conservative - Tory) did attend the wedding. Interesting. Also let's not forget that the Bin Laden incident came after the Royal Weding.

Well, thank you very much, Yabby.

- I shall have a look at that.

cont'd ...

As for weddings being different if men organised them? I think it depends on the men. I believe that Prince William and Kate had quite a lot of input into theirs.

Who'da thunk that a topic about moral conflict would result into a gender war about who would be better wedding planners.

Just too funny.

I guess this means the topic has run its course, therefore I'd like to thank all though who gave the issue some serious thought.

For myself, after the perspective time can provide, I am no longer so happy at the assassination of bin Laden. Following the information as it is released from the US, I don't believe that there was ever a plan to bring in bin Laden alive, which I find abhorrent. No chance to demystify the man from the image as the charismatic leader of terrorists. No chance that bin Laden should be faced with the consequences of his actions on many people across this planet.

As for wedding planning - I don't see why one sex would be any better than the other.

Regards all.

Lexi, we got sidetracked because you claimed that Obama had been
snubbed. You continue to see the thing from the perspective
of a female Melbourne librarian, rather then then from a bloke
who is US Prez and who happens to be so busy, that he has twice
had to cancel official visits to Australia. Now, just a few days
before he was about to pull off a major coup, you think that
he would feel snubbed for not attending a wedding. I have news for you lol.

That was btw a private wedding, State leaders were not invited as
a matter of course. But they did invite alot of Lizzies friends,
as a courtesy to grandma, who was footing the bill after all.

If Obama had turned up with his massive security team, where would
you have put them all in the cathedral? There was standing room only
as it was.

Ronnie Reagan did not bother going to Charlies wedding, he sent the
wife. Smart man.

Blokes commonly don't see weddings as girls see them, they hold them
because that is what brides yearn for. How many blokes do you know
who store their wedding suit for the rest of their lives, as girls
do with their wedding dresses?

Plenty of blokes would be happy with a pissup at the pub, the
wedding night is far more important then what dresses people wore :)

As far as I am concerned, if couples spent the 20-30 grand that they
blow on their weddings, as a downpayment for their house, that
would be far more useful to them in the long run.

If you checkout the difference about how people reacted to the
wedding, women commented a great deal about the bridal gown,
men went nuts over the bridemaid's arse

Dear Yabby,

I did not mean to de-rail this thread. Having lived and worked in the US for close to ten years I made a comment that I thought was fairly innocent - not realizing that it would be taken the wrong way. I certainly did not intend to make this into a "gender war," on weddings ,and regret having responded to your "knowledge" of what the US President was thinking and feeling and your generalisations about the "male" and "Female" thing. As we all know you're the expert in that area and besides what would a female know anyway - especially a
librarian - right? (Perhaps more than a farmer from WA - you think?)
As Ammmonite said - too funny!

Back to the topic...

The trouble with much of Bin Laden's life, is what we truly do not know. The misunderstandings and conspiracies swirling around this man have not been helped by the shifting stories from the White House about the circumstances of his death. He certainly was no friend of the West. However, did he deserve to die and will things change for the better as a result of his death? A reader writing to The Age states:

"Kill your enemy and dump their body at sea. This was a favourite technique in the early 1970s of the Argentinian military, who were trained in the US by the US military. Obviously the American way."
Perhaps a bit too cynical?

Another, writes:

"Maybe the US knew all along where Osama bin Laden was and the 10th anniversary was a good propaganda moment to keep the voters happy?"

And then, a cartoon with the headline:

"Joy to the Western World... One Wedding and a Funeral."

And another that had the Queen talking on the telephone to the US President where she asks him, "Would you mind waiting a couple of days. We're having a large function as well."

*and besides what would a female know anyway *

Ahhh, poor Lexi, the female victim. Pull the other one lol.

I actually made some valid points, you have a considered response
or you don't. Clearly you don't. Fair enough.

As to bin Laden, the estimates I've read calculate that him and
his ilk have cost the US a trillion $. In fact he's cost all of
us a great deal. All that security on freight and passengers is
passed on to consumers.

Obama could have taken the easy option and sent in a guided missile.
But they would never have known if they really got him, besides
the most valuable thing is all those documents and data. That will
save many lives. So Obama showed courage in taking the high risk
option, its paid off. Things could have gone wrong, as they did for
Carter in Iran

Bin Laden has been responsible for the taking of enough lives,
both muslims and non muslims. He declared war on the USA and
in war, unless you surrender, you die. He died and deserved to die.
The last thing we needed was a whole lot of hostages taken to try and
free him, die instead.

Dear Yabby,

A closed mouth gathers no foot. See you on another thread.

i should be agreeing with lexi
but feel the point..about the foot
relates to gabby...but put cleverly as to be bias neutral

but i agree with lexi
look at this foot...
from gabbies mouth

QUOTE..""As to bin Laden,
the estimates I've read calculate that him and
his ilk have cost the US a trillion $."""

his 'ilk'...meaning those who done the terror
ie the south arabian's...many of whom were found alive
after they were ACCUSED by two unburnt
brandnew passports..made in israel]

and the israel links
from who owned the building
to who insures it..and did security
in it and planned and placed the thermite in it..etc

""In fact he's cost all of
us a great deal."""

mate you mean
whoever done 911

and went to war in alfghanistan..
and bombed iraq back into the stoneage

[killing 1 million muslims...
under blackwater blackguards rule
yes they...THEY have cost us all a great deal

lets recall..bin liner was NEVER charged with 911
and conveniantly..now he is dead..NO ONE WILL...!

""All that security on freight and passengers is
passed on to consumers."""

yes it is gabby
but recall the 'shovel/ready'..projects
thats where that bailout went to...in the main..
so govt did that...and still the underwear bomber was let onto the plane[escorted onto the plane..as reported at the time]

or 7/7...where govt set up patsies
testing the system...but in reality
setting up stooges to beat up fear..recalling all the headliones..about captured terrorists...that then queitly
get dropped..or lost in court..[yet the media silence is deafening]

""the most valuable thing is all those documents and data."''
lol a way to kep the legend[fear]..alive
ie spin..now think about how this can be spun?

the mansion..in which the peasant lived...[the cia/safe house]
was a bare shell....i saw no proof of any computers..shelves desks..accesories
thus another spin/lie

besides the vidio...has a RIGHT handed bin liner
holding the 'remoter'[very symbolic..but clear fake]

when we all know he is left handed..!
sunken faced sick and pale[in 2001]

the desert origonal
who died in usa 2001

didnt have prince charles ears
dont that healthy ruddy glow
and his nose is too big

in the later vidios he looks younger
and his beard runs in the wriong places
the fake lines in to his eyes[from hiis mouth]
is that lovely feling stage makeup can create

its like holding up 5 blasck fat santas...thats how different the old him looks from all the other dopple ganger hims
since 2001

""That will
save many lives."""

knowledge is info
and ability to learn from,sources true
and those that lie

""So Obama showed courage in taking the high risk
option, its paid off.""'

sending 24[now 30/40]...arnmed troopps
in ti kill an unarmed old farrrr[rt]
with a few servant/runner's..some kids and a wife]...lol

""Things could have gone wrong,""
yea they could get paper cuts
or electrocuted if they didnt
cut the power before stealing the main disks

""as they did for
Carter in Iran""

ahh memories
when one party
was differnt from the other
and the fought each other..not their own

""Bin Laden has been responsible""
prove it...him perrsonally..or as patsie?

the fall guy..from cia
mossad trained

Yabby old sparing partner you are being flogged here with a feather duster, a one feathered one.
Bin what ever we are told is a CIA plant, died in America before 9/11.
Shee!
I blame Walt, Disney that is, he put the fairy tales right out there.
Watched them all, and as a kid fell in love with the same girl every boy in the world did Anette still remember those tight jumpers.
Shame but I grew out of fairy tales.
Some never did.

Belly old mate, see it this way.

Methinks that most likely OUG needs his daily therapy and
OLO is how he gets it. Luckily Graham is tolerant of the
endless stream of gibberish. I certainly don't even try
to make head or tail of it.

Dear Yabby,

A closed mouth gathers no foot.

i couldnt have put it better

gabby quote..." I certainly don't even try""

and there is the joke
he dont read what i post
yet still slags off at it

ignorant of what was wrote

lol

Seeing right through you

belly dont know any better
but you are educated...thus chose your ignorance

no need to refute that you claim to not read
put ya head in the sand...and it all goes away...

but note
people are seeing the pattern

after pleading innocence...
ya can complain...you dont know..so continually troll off the topic
witness your last series of post's

so much for the topic
you are here only to interupt
but are welcome to your opinion..even if biased by ignorance

short and sweet

Osama Bin Laden:lanlord fraud..
Pakistan's scepticism over videos

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13329078

The BBC managed to find someone
who identified the old guy..*in the video

LOL...he turns out to be...*the landlord*!
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20110504/109544.shtml
pay the rent...lol
http://yayacanada.blogspot.com/2011/05/yo-conform-or-die.html
blah blah ha ha
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-%e2%80%93-the-fight-over-pulling-the-trigger/
http://lonestarwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/60-minutes-of-deception-from-obama.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13329078
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=45852&Cat=6&dt=5/9/2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZjKKUEHTKk&feature=player_embedded#at=71

and so it begins
http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/08/so-it-begins-sen-charles-schumer-proposes-increased-security-and-no-fly-list-for-amtrak-trains/

Yabby in all my holding my breath tantrums.
In every taking my bat and going home bluster.
I have known a few things about GY.
He has a Passion for OLO, I share it.
Not as my stage.
But a place to see real people have a chance to be heard.
Some of us have more of substance to say than others.
Mark me down as guilty, of failing to understand.
That Graham believes in everyone being free, with in rules to say what they will.
At times my thoughts must have looked,maybe still do disjointed to some.
But and I do not come here because we NEED to, some do.
I have ranted and raved,in private and print, about past posters groups now gone, but I was wrong.
I say it often,believe it with my every fiber, those who think they are right,ALWAYS and others wrong ALWAYS are rarely right on any subject.
We however learn just how man can turn a story of one mans death into something so very far from reality it should teach every one of us not to believe too much without looking deeper.
That is not good but OUG you are selling empty jam tins and telling us they are motor cars here bloke.
Then questioning us for not seeing what you see.

Sorry yabby,smack me over the back of the head for that post.
Well maybe not, but in every thread I visit this morning I am reminded just how little you and I know.
Just how silly we are, maybe even worse.
How trustworthy anything said in the middle east or say Pakistan is to us western world lie telling horrible things.
Please lets not find good posters from every side every view judging us all by the very few.