This year will be 20 years since the death of Dr Victor Chang - a Chinese-born Australian heart surgeon. He was murdered in a botched robbery in morning traffic on a July day in 1991, he had become one of the country's great immigrant success stories, and, at that time at least, a rare Asian face in Australian public life.

How different is Australia today - twenty years on?

Your thoughts please.

Yes Lexi, Dr. Chang's murder was a very sad day in Australia's history.

I do believe that most modern Australians have the same attitude towards Asian migrants as they do to European migrants now.

They are welcome here because most of them are hard workers and assimilate well to our Australian society, while continuing to practice their own culture and religions.

I believe Australians have finally embraced the Asian immigrants, and their descendants, because they recognise that these people really have made significant contributions to their new country.
Victor Chang was only one of many great success stories.

Not only have they contributed much to the business, medical and research worlds, but also to the culinary world... and we all love Asian food!

Lexi we have grown, we needed to.
We have as in any cultural group,problems still but far more very good contributing people.

Lexi- no different, maybe more rightwing than usual and still just as anti-Asian as ever it has been.

Do you think this murder marked a watershed in national views?

I hear parents moaning about schools where 'Asian kids' sit at the top of the class and school and feel it is 'unfair'.

That Australians do not value schools-for-education is not an issue for them, so it seems. They'd be very upset if the uniform changed but really don't care that the maths teacher is a twit who can't teach, and so on.

In our town we still have White Pride, League of Rights, anti-immigration supporters, and all are supported by the Christian community here.

Why should they change, when everything makes them feel good?

Dear Suze,

Twenty years on, Australia is a different nation. Chinese languages rank among the most spoken in the country. A quarter of all Australians are foreign-born, and approx. 6% of all
Australians consider themselves ethnically Asian. I think that Victor Chang would have been amazed by this rapid reinvention. And, as you point out Asian immigration has had a major impact in business, economics, politics, the arts, science and of course food.
As someone said, "Vietnamese is the new meat pie."

Dear Belly,

I agree we do have problems however Australia's Asian influx is reshaping the look of the country. A report a few years ago on mixed race marriages by the Australian National University and Monash University academics found a striking rise in intermarriage between third generation Asian Australians and White Australians. Their growing number of mixed race children are the most visible symbols of a new country.

Dear TBC,

The nation does continue to grapple with its cultural identity. Australia is "caught between geography and history, and it continues to be uncomfortable," says Professor of Sociology at the University of Technology, Sydney, Andrew Jakubowicz. "We are (no longer) I think, a forlorn outpost of empire, but we are not either an Asian-Pacific nation."

Yet even this judgement is changing. Australia's cities have long boasted statues of British monarchs and English explorers. Today, a bronze statue of Victor Chang, dressed in surgical scrubs and clasping a stethoscope, stands sentinel in front of the new $71 million building that houses the Victor Chang Cardiac Research Institute in Sydney. The statue smiles at office workers and doctors scurrying down streets with countless Thai restaurants.

Prominent Asian Australians include Federal Minister Penny Wong, John So, the former Lord Mayor of Melbourne, Henry Tsang, the former Deputy Lord Mayor of Sydney, fashion designers Akira Isogawa, Jenny Kee and Lisa Ho, Chefs Kylie Kwong and Tim Pak Poy, filmaker and 2005
Young Australian of the Year Khoa Do, comedians Lawrence Leung and Anh Do, neurosurgeon Charles Teo, violinist Susie Park and of course artist Shen Jiawei, just to mention a few

Lexi
My sense is attitudes towards Asians has vastly improved but is not perfect given there are some remnants of racist sentiment. Most of the vitriole and suspicion now seems reserved primarily for Muslims. Sometimes the vitriole and suspicion comes equally from some of those newer migrant groups too - a tolerant nation can only be formed when all cultural groups display tolerance and goodwill, showing a willingness to live side by side with each other.

However, to gauge a reality check on that perception maybe some Asian contributors could throw some light on the question ie. do Asian people experience less discrimination than in previous years. Maybe there are some on OLO who could share their experiences.

In 100 years time people will be saying what was all the fuss about when generations of Muslims will have integrated and live and work side by side with others in a secular environment.

Ah Lexi, you've answered your own string post query with that list.

Pleased to read such a list, it's only taken a couple of hundred years though.

A test over the next few years will be the acceptance of Afghans and Sudanese as they clamber out of the dead end jobs and rise through the immigrant 'ladder of opportunity' (remember them?).

Did you see the Chinese story on ABC some weeks/months back (was it SBS?) of the Aussie son whose mother was sent back to China all the time, saved only by the war, she was forced to remain here for the 'duration' and finally 'something' changed. Was it the end of the WAP maybe?

True, that was before the murder you kicked off with.

I suppose glacial change is better than none, and for a somnambulunt population better than too rapid.

Our Baptist PM might say that 'we had the balance right' in her effort to offend no one.

Others might be inclined to think... 'this is Oz, what do you expect?'.

Having spent some time in the UK recently, our claims to be 'multi-cultural' here seem to be grandstanding compared to there, but never mind, we are at the back end of the world, or worse, as Keating suggested.

The recent reappearance of Pauline Hanson reminds me that only a decade or so ago, Asians were being targetted in the same way as Muslims are today.

"They won't assimilate, they create racial enclaves, they have no loyalty to Australia, they don't share our values, they are rorting our Social Security systems, they bring in disease, they have a separate sub-culture, they run racially-based crime gangs" and so on.

Like the Europeans and Mediterraneans before them and the Irish and Chinese before that - it's all happened here before but only recently with implied Governmental silent assent.

They were used as a political tool used to attract and placate a noisy xenophobic minority, to scapegoat and to create public dissent.

The only thing that's changed is the target of our distrust.

I have consistently not trusted our politicians wobbles, whatever their background.

Dear Pelly,

Newcomers have always found it difficult, especially if they came from different cultural and linguistic backgrounds. I do hope you're right, that in 100 years (maybe sooner) people will be saying what was all the fuss about? It would help though if -
the media would stop focusing on ethnic crime, gangs, and joblessness. I would love to have some Asian posters contribute to this thread with their personal experiences and stories. That would be greatly appreciated. We could all learn something from that.

Dear TBC,

I didn't see the Chinese story on the ABC that you mentioned. As for what changed? Perhaps part of it may have been the end of that racist policy that saw non-white immigation edge up. Don't forget though that
a fierce national debate was sparked in 1984 when the renowed University of Melbourne historian and academic Geoffrey Blainey decried what he believed was a dispoportionately high level of Asian settlers. And also, in 1988, then Opposition Leader (later Prime Minister) John Howard sparked a further debate when he called for the rate of Asian immigration to be slowed for the sake of "social cohesion."

Dear Wobbles,

The only thing that's changed is the target of our distrust? Well it doesn't help when the media and some politicians use fear-mongering as a weapon. And that's nothing new today. Australia's first Immigration Minister, Arthur Calwell, supposedly said in 1947, "We have 25 years at most to populate this country before the yellow races are down on us." But then again decades later - the Labor Party, saw immigration as a way to make Australia as dynamic as places like Singapore and Hong Kong. It was "the only tool readily at hand to challenge our complacency, smugness and parochialism," as one Immigration Minister argued.

The only constant is change. And we can only hope that they will keep on changing for the better. But as Pelly said in her post - it's up to all of us working side-by-side to make that happen.

If you think attitudes have changed, then get out of your city comfort zone and come out to the country. There you might wind the clock back 30 years, not 10.

Probably the biggest gripe though is with accents. It is one thing that people in country areas tend to be used to. Most will get past skin colour, but they rarely hear accents, and thus struggle with them, and therefore "write-off" the person/group. I am similar in that respect, particularly when dealing with someone on the phone from a call centre. I've been called "racist" by some of these people I have spoken for asking to speak to someone with an Australian accent (I struggle with strong Euro accents too, so its not a racial thing), however it comes down the the fact that I have limited time, and I need to talk to someone with whom I can get my message across and receive one clearly.

Has Asias's attitude to White immigrants changed?

Oh, that's right. It's only White people that have to be tolerant and inclusive of every ethnicity under the sun.
Let's never bother insisting that these other ethnic peoples be tolerant and inclusive themselves.

Lexi, in 100 years (if we even have a functional society), people will be saying "What the hell were we thinking?!"

"the media would stop focusing on ethnic crime, gangs, and joblessness"
Why should anyone ignore these issues?
Here's another one: at the recent NSW election, informal votes in some districts were *double* the state average. Guess which districts?
But who needs immigrants who can understand English?

At the federal election, there was an Asian electoral *official* who didn't seem to even understand what I was asking her. An OFFICIAL!!

Diversity in the world at large only exists due to *exclusivity*.
No people or culture has been or can be everything.

Lexi,

Quite so. All these attitudes are what we are taught by society and also by our parents.

I am actually the offspring of European post-war immigrants although I was born here, and know how it feels to be treated as an outsider first-hand.

In those days we were called wogs or New Australians and I remember being taught the story of Little Black Sambo in Infants School and that Aborigines were a dying race.

Harold Holt was said to have been surprised at the result of the famous Referendum that counted Aborigines as citizens. He also admitted to Nugget Coombs that he had never actually met an Aborigine in his life.

As for Howard, he was also the product of his times. He admitted feeling "uncomfortable" about seeing Asians in Sydney streets and some of his fellow ex-Fraser Ministers have stated that he often made intemperate remarks about certain ethnic groups during Cabinet meetings.

He was also know to refer to Aborigines as "boongs" in private conversations - like many of his generation.

It's probably not surprising that he had no problem using race as a political weapon when it suited him.

The ALP was quite fond of the White Australia Policy too.

Many things have changed since those days but many have not.

Dear Country Girl,

I've got family who are stud-farmers in Quirindi, NSW. I've got relatives living in Kempsey and Tamworth. Talking about accents though - you're not the only one who's had problems in that area. I still have problems with some as well. Especially very broad Scottish and some English cockney - takes a while to get used to. And of course people have had problems with mine. I remember working in Los Angeles a few years ago and answering the telephone at work when an American voice told me, " Another Damn Limey! God Almighty, are there no Americans working in your institution?" I had to laugh and explain that I wasn't a "Limey," but from Australia, and how could I help him?

Dear Shockadelic,

Nobody is suggesting that only "white people have to be tolerant."
On the contrary. If you re-read my earlier posts as well as those of
Pelican - you'd see that we both said that in order for anything to change we all have to work side-by-side together to make things changes happen.

Dear Wobbles,

I'm also an offspring of European post-war refugees and I was born here and know how it feels to be treated as an outsider first-hand.
My surname made me stand out for starters - I was called "unpronounceable," at school as well as the usual "wog," "New Australian," "dago," etc. However, I think that today those "outmoded" terms are no longer acceptable to most people.

In 1999, Australians taking part in the people's Choice Awards, a kind of pop culture popularity contest, had a choice to make. The four finalists for Australian of the Century were Dawn Fraser, a beloved swimmer from the 1950s and 1960s. Donald Bradman, the greatest cricketeer ever to pick up a bat, Fred Hollows, an eye doctor whose techniques had helped a million or so people to see again, and Victor Chang, a Chinese born Australian heart surgeon. It might suprise many used to seeing the country as a bastion of old fashioned white values that the nation's television viewers opted for
Victor Chang.

Pelican,
You say "In 100 years time people will be saying what was all the fuss about when generations of Muslims will have integrated and live and work side by side with others in a secular environment"

Your optimismis to be admired, but I have reservations.

The Croats and Serbs have been here 3 generations and there is still serious conflict between them. The Lebs have been here 3 generations and have not integrated. Now we are seeing conflict between more recent ethnic groups such as Sri Lankans and Tamils and then some of African origin. There are groups that still practice FGM, after 2 generations. Some mothers that were 'done' here are now having their own daughters mutilated. Education here has failed!

You are right that to be tolerant all people need to give and take, and therin lies the problem, the Muslims are not prepared to compromise in any way.

How many generations will it take for these groups to forget the old cultural ways and integrate? Or should we just continue to accept these hatreds and alien practices?

Lexi,
Notice that many of the persons you gave as examples have western first names which is common in Asian people here. This indicates an effort to integrate into our society and I also note they do not call for special schools or suggest our laws be changed for them and they dress according to our culture. The Asians have changed somewhat to suit our society. We have adopted some of the Asian food culture but I would not like to see some Asian culinary aspects allowed in our society. Nor some other aspects of Asian culture.

We must be careful not to overwhelm our society with any particular group that has vast cultural differences..

Dear Banjo,

You can't fight the movement of people, races, religions, cultures. What we experience in Australia on a minute scale - has occurred throughout Europe and Asia for two thousand years and in the Americas for the last three centuries. We are simply the last continent on earth to experience it - (whether some of us like it or not). England is a prime example of a mixture of people - started in pre-Roman times and continues to this day. All we can do is enforce the laws of this country that everyone has to abide by.

Australia continues to grapple with its cultural identity. I cited Professor Jakubowicz in an earlier post, Australia is "caught between geography and history, and it continues to be uncomfortable. We are no longer a forlorn outpost of empire, but we're not either an Asian Pacific nation." Only time will tell what our unique identity will be in the future. Possibly a combination of the best of all worlds that will make us uniquely - Australian.

When will the deceit of calling Muslims a race be stopped. I suppose those with blindfolds will not cease this nonsense. Yes Asians are among our best citizens while Muslims who have been here for generations are among our worse. This includes Asian, Egyptian, Lebanese and now white Autralian Muslims.

Interesting enough many of the Asians that come here are Christians. Churches are full of Asians which might give a little clue as to why they fit into society so well. Generally they are hard working, have better morals than most Aussies and cook really well.

Lexi,
A former Nigerian President said words along these lines. (I have lost the exact quote). "one day a million Arabs will go to europe and they will not go as friends, they will go to conquer. the wombs of our women will give us victory" We are now seeing that in Europe and UK.

You say "You can't fight the movement of people, races, religions, cultures" Do you think we should accept all and sundry and their cultures, whatever it is. Some people have some weird cultural practices that are alien to us. I don't accept your comment. We are in a position to determine just who comes here and if we value our culture and way of life we should preserve that for future generations. We should stop importing those who cannot or will not integrate. When those that are here now show they are integrating then we can allow more.

and also "All we can do is enforce the laws of this country that everyone has to abide by".

What happens, with continued high immigration, when those with vastly different cultures reach such proportions that our laws are changed to suit them. This is now happening in Europe and the UK. There are calls for Sharia laws and at least one Muslim former government minister gave a speech about them having a muslim Prime Minister.

We in Aus need to act now to stop the idealistic non-discrimatory immigration policy and import only those that have shown they are prepared to be part of our society.

The situation with the illegal boat arrivals is a classic example of what happens when idealism is put before practicallity. There is a surge in numbers and some (about 200 so far) drown enroute.

Runner:”When will the deceit of calling Muslims a race be stopped.”

It is a strange thing but they do it themselves. Christian Lebanese do not say they are Arab and if you call them an Arab they say “No I am Christian”. Must be a cultural thing and I don’t quite understand it. How is it deceit?

Before I say anything about Asians or Immigrants I’d like to know if I am the only non-Australian here.

Jewely you ask'in regards to referring to Muslims as a race.
'How is it deceit?

It is deceit because it stops people from facing the reality that everywhere that Islam is followed in the West, security needs to be increased drastically and integration is almost non existant except for a few quasi Government/university positions created to lie about what Islam stands for. As one renown Polly said that muslims are not the problem but Islam is. Just as we can see how well Asians have intergrated in most of society we can see throughout the world how followers of the prophet leave a place ruined by Islam and now want to bring the same c-ap here.

Dear runner,

I'm pleased that you approve of Christian Asians who can cook.

Dear Banjo,

All applicants for migration to Australia have to conform to certain criteria which is set by the Government of the day (elected by the people of the nation). So if you're unhappy with the current immigration policies you should address your concerns to the Government or elect a Government in the next election that supports your concerns. We currently have a nation made up of a diversity of
peoples. You make general sweeping statements about certain groups
and you lump these people together not allowing for individual differences within each group. It would be like saying "All Collingwood football players are rough hoodlums." This would make you appear to be arguing on an emotional level - not a mature intelligent one.

Dear Jewely,

The entire country is made up of various ancestries and I'm sure that
there's quite a variety of them in our posters on OLO.

Dear runner,

You get extremists in many religious groups not only Islam. You have only to look at the religious sects in the US and the sheer nstiness
of some of the rhetoric. "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." This from a Southern
preacher. All the ingredients are there: hatred of women, modernity, rival religions, science, love of punishment, bullying, narrow-minded, bossy interference in every aspect of life and a slavish adherence to an old text. The Afghan Taliban and the American Taliban provide a horrifying modern enactment of what life might have been like under the theocracy of the Old Testament.

jewelry,
I don't often agree with runner, but he has a point. Islam is a religion that dictates a whole way of life. It is not a race as there are many people of diverse races that are muslim. It is wrong to say muslims are a race or a seperate ethnic group.

Lexi,
I do and will continue to make representations to governments and politicians about our immigration policies. Surely you are not suggesting that I not post my views on OLO as well.

I make statements about certain groups because as a group they have shown they do not abide by our laws and social standards, how they act is part of their culture. Our health authorities know which groups practice FGM, so it would be easy to identify those groups and stop importing them. Croats and Serbs have a long history of conflict here, so again should be stopped. It is the newcomers of these cultural groups that refresh the old hatreds and alien cultural practices. I might add that there are not many of such groups and the vast majority of immigrants do integrate.

I have no problem with diversity of race but that does not mean we should accept those groups that will not integrate. For example non muslim Lebanese have made good immigrants but we continue to have problems with muslim Lebanese. They do not get on with any others.

I am not interested in idealism, as you appear to be, but far more concerned about keeping our country a cohesive society for future generations. Have a close look at many other countries and ask yourself how many you would like your children to live in?

The social standards of the UK and many European countries has degenerated since WW2 and we will go the same way unless we act very soon.

“It is wrong to say muslims are a race or a seperate ethnic group.”

Yep I technically agree but if they want to call themselves that then who am I to argue. I think the Christians among them started it. What about the Jews Banjo?

Lexi:” The entire country is made up of various ancestries and I'm sure that there's quite a variety of them in our posters on OLO.”

It’s a given, unless aboriginal, that their families have been here only a few generations I guess.

I can't think of anyone who said they were new apart from Jinny.

Dear Banjo,

Are you suggesting we bring back an equivalent to the "White Australia Policy?" (Christian exclusive) which will inevitably invite condemnation from the rest of the world (remember South Africa?) and in turn we'll see invasion on a large scale from our Northern neighbours. This scenario has been discussed and analysed in the past and has been rejected.

Dear Jewely,

Got any opinions on the topic of this thread? Be great to hear.

“Got any opinions on the topic of this thread? Be great to hear.”

Nah sorry Lexi, way too scared without sorting out some backup first. :)

Dear Jewely,

Ahhh what a shame. Love your posts, especially your sense of humour.
Could do with a good laugh at present (probs. at work).

lexi,
Comon, your suggestion that i am putting forward a new White Australian Policy is a strawman, to distract from the issue.

Apart from christians and muslims we have many other religions here that do not give us problems. I understand there are more Buddists here than muslims yet we have little problems with them.

Similarly we have people of many races, but as I said racial diversity is not the problem. The problems stem from alien cultural practices and attitudes and some groups refusal to compromise and integrate.

If you wish to discuss further, please stick to the issue.

Jewelry
Islam is a religion and its believers are known as muslims. Judalism is also a religion and its believers are known as Jews. Like muslims, Jews are comprised of different races. I would not be at all surprised if one could not find Jews of Asian or African heritage.

Eww work, I learnt the phrase “sit down money” yesterday, says it all.

I hope your day improved Lexi. A friend gave me another pet eel today!

This new eel’s home was drying up so the decent thing to do was bring it home even though my own resources are limited. I hope my other eels will welcome it to its new environment and share their territory, food and water while making an effort to understand its accent and help it to avoid the pond pump when it is switched on. Rather than leave the new eel where it was I think if I give it some thought I’ll work something out so no one starves and really if you like eels there is no alternative than to get smarter and cope. Luckily land locked eels do not breed but they do live a very long time and get very big.

But back to topic - do we have an Asian we can ask? Individual opinions on the matter are interesting but only one of the affected will have a broader view of attitudes here.

Lexi I’d be interested in finding out who posts here because besides Dave (who I haven’t seen here for awhile) are all the regular posters white and second or more generation Aussies? Wonder what it means to a forum to have quite a limited selection of people to gather opinions from.

Thanks Banjo, got it. I’ve met Arabs from all the popular creeds. Only the Muslim ones refer to themselves as Arabs so I figure it isn’t them getting it wrong so the deceit part shouldn’t be laid at their washed several times a day extremely clean feet.

Jews call themselves Jews as if it is a race though yeah? Anyone complain about it or call it deceit?

What is the definition of an Asian anyways? Where they from?

Dear Banjo,

Actually the issue is, "Has Australia's attitude to Asian immigrants changed?" read my opening post. I have tried to point out to you that all Australians are free to follow any religion they choose, so long as its practices do not break any Australian law. We're also free not to follow a religion and religious intolerance is unacceptable in Australian society. Cultural practices such as FGM, or bigamy, for example are illegal. Therefore your fears about certain groups I feel go against the Australian ethos of tolerance, mutual respect and compassion for those in need. Australia prides itself on being an egalitarian society where no one is supposed to be regarded as better than anyone else by virtue of who they are or where they were born.

Australia's cultural diversity is a strength which makes for a dynamic society. Within a framework of laws, all Australians have the right to express their culture and beliefs. What is asked is people wanting to settle in Australia make an overriding commitment to Australia - its laws, its values and its people.

I thought that we had arrived in a place far away from policies such assimilation which created such a lot of angst in our history. The notion of assimilation tainted our history of interaction with the First Australians as well as with our early immigrants. In this country, I believe we don't want to walk backwards towards a history for which we have apologised.

Anyway, if you feel so strongly on the subject of immigration and who we should let in - start your own thread on the subject instead of
demonizing my opinion.

cont'd ...

Dear Banjo,

I want to add that - several important events in recent
Australian political and social life have made feelings such as yours
quite understandable. In recent times - politicians have benefited from the fear of Muslims and rather than working to educate and lead Australians beyond it - they have passed new anti-terrorism legislation (first passed in 2002, then strengthed in 2003). This legislation inevitably validated some of the broader community mistrust of Arab and Muslim Australians.

In the past five years there has been documented and anecdotal evidence of a massive increase in harassment, vilification and violence towards Australians of Arab appearance. There have been unchecked racial religious vilification on talkback radio.

Prejudice creates what ir fears, because through prejudice young people's prospects are curtailed. Their own families often live defensively. What we need if we're going to live at ease with ourselves is more education, and less fear mongering. That of course is only my opinion. You're entitled to differ.

Dear Jewely,

Yes I am feeling much better. I'm starting to realize that having the courage to confront a challenge knowing that the outcome is in doubt may simply not be worth bothering. (My boss appears proud of how humble and open-minded he is, he's actually anything but - still he's the boss -right!). Eels - wow! You're probably going to get a shock -
but smoked eel - was considered a delicacy by my parents. Although I could never develop a taste.

There are quite a few Asian posters on OLO - and I'd love to have some
body post on this thread and relate their experiences.

Who are Asians? Well, I may have it wrong but to me members of the Asian racial group include Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and most of the peoples of southeastern Asia. However, there is an existence of a wide variety of ethnic groups and that is one of the most important features of Asia's population. They're united by the same language, the same religion, a common ancestry or all of these characteristics. Asia has dozens of ethnic groups - both large and small.Asia's largest ethnic groups include the Arabs of the south-west, the Hindus of India, and the Chinese of the east.

Dear Lexi,
I think you are FOXING with us—in more ways than one!

Asia and Asian is an artificial construct.There is no monolith Asian identity.And it makes little sense to talk of "acceptance" of Asians, when they are so diverse.

And quotes like this: Australia is "caught between geography and history, and it continues to be uncomfortable," says Professor of Sociology at the University of Technology, Sydney, Andrew Jakubowicz. "We are (no longer) I think, a forlorn outpost of empire, but we are not either an Asian-Pacific nation."

Which play on a false image of a Euro-heritage OZ versus a monolithic Asia ---are pure fantasy.

I thought there weren’t any bosses and everyone had like team leaders and managers who gave you David Jones vouchers and made sure your office birthday cake was delivered and handed out cardboard framed certificates for Making An Effort like you’re back in pre-school. Tell your boss to catch up.

I love smoked eel, love it love it love it and, but no – these are pets. : ) And oops I found out you are not allowed to take eels from the wild in Aussie. I paid for my amphibian and reptile native animal license. So it is a license you pay for to then go buy reptiles and amphibians and pay GST as well. What a rip.

I think this is shaping up like another great big rip too (letter I got today):

“There are many pathways for an Australian permanent residency visa application.
As the issues are complex, you are requested to come to our city office for a detailed assessment and consultation. If you are interested in having more information, please feel free to email us.
For your information, our consultation fee is $95 which is payable on the day of your appointment.”

Isn’t there just a damn form to fill in? I don’t want to talk to them or listen to them.

Yeah the word Asian is a big mix but they are all little different nationalities within a larger group and we’re more calling them Asian like we would call someone a Caucasian? The question is the same about our attitude to Asian immigrants but is more like asking about our attitudes to people with Asian features? I’m splitting hairs maybe.

Wiki said: What in the past had been defined as "races"—e.g., whites, blacks, or Asians—are now defined as "ethnic groups" or "populations", in correlation with the field (sociology, anthropology, genetics) in which they are considered.

Just to confuse me more.

Jewely,
Your bit about eels raised my interest as i have never heard of someone having eels for pets.

I know they return to the ocean to breed, but what do you feed a pet eel with, I thought they ate frogs and the like that inhabit fresh water. Also how do you hold them captive as they have been known to travel over land, apparently on dewy nights. How they get around large dams on rivers intrigues me.

The fee of $95.00 sounds steep. Is that with an immigration agent and have you checked the DIAC site? I recall seeing a section on visas. I would have thought that an application by someone who speaks our lingo should be simple. I do know there are special arrangements for Kiwis.

Eels are awesome and can be hand fed bits of mince. They learn to come see you to take the food. I’m still uncertain if they can or do bite or if it will hurt so bits of mince on the end of a straw for now.

Yeah they are supposed to return to the ocean to breed (by New Caledonia I think) but landlocked ones just keep growing and can get to 3 meters long and live over 100 years. They can climb high walls and can sense if a trickle of water in a paddock is coming from a farm dam with food in it then follow it back to its source.

I did read somewhere at some dams they throw fishing nets over to help the young eels climb when the little ones return from the sea.

My eels stay through sheer good luck so far as they could easily get out, one travelled across the backyard and I found it in the morning, told it off and put it back in the pond. Mine are about 3 feet long and little fat sods. They’re eating fish and frogs and water snails I guess but can go something like a year without eating.

I swear there is some anti-immigrant conspiracy going on Banjo that makes even finding out how to apply for residency near impossible. I wish I could find a special arrangement for Kiwis. I will try again in the morning with the DIAC site, cannot find the Permanent Residency form to save my life which has to be done before applying for citizenship. After that’s done (at some unknown future date) I think someone will arrest me if I don’t vote and it’s about the only extra thing becoming a citizen gives me.

Oh yuk! After reading about you feeding eels with mince Jewely, I am sure to have nightmares tonight!
Eel, cooked and on a fork ,smoked, barbequed or whatever, makes me want to puke even more.

But hey, differing food and pet choices are part of our wonderful Australian way of life, just like our great big population pot of all the different races and cultures makes us such a unique place.

Vive le difference :)

Suzeonline,
If you say yuck to Jewely'S love of smoked eel, I had better not say what some Asian people eat. China lost about 50 million people in the great famine so nothing much was wasted then. Funny how some edibles look better if you are hungry. Don't want to ruin your keyboard.

Jewely,
The eels are interesting, thanks for the info. Am told they breed profusely but thousands are devoured enroute to our coast. I guess they stay in your pond as long as the reliability of food overides the breeding urge.

I once could not find the info I wanted on the DIAC site and wrote to them and they sent it. I'd do that before I paid an agent. A couple of other suggestions. Write to the Aus embassay in NZ and apply there or Fly to Christmas Island take a little rental boat out a bit and get picked up. PR visa, no prob. A 90 day holiday on a tropical island would not be too hard to take and you would no doubt qualify as most coming from NZ are refugees, thousands at Bondi/Coogee.

I am very much anti-high immigration, but will relent in your case because you write interesting posts and I think you have a wicked sense of humour. Sense of humour essential to raise all those kids. Sorry for your hubby though

“Fly to Christmas Island take a little rental boat out a bit and get picked up. PR visa, no prob. A 90 day holiday on a tropical island would not be too hard to take and you would no doubt qualify as most coming from NZ are refugees, thousands at Bondi/Coogee.”

Hahaha. My son found the residency forms! While filling his out he discovered his passport has expired. I’ve told him he has to leave the country immediately. It doesn’t look like I can apply because I have no sponsor.

I did once fill out and pay for the Citizenship application. I got to the interview and they said I was rejected for not having residency, they kept my money though.

“Sorry for your hubby though.”

He can add you to his rapidly growing list of those who have conveyed their condolences.

jewely,
Ha, you can't get rid of your own kids that easy. They are too aware these days.

I would sponsor you but I don't think they will accept an old scrubber like me. Best wait till your son is accepted and then he can sponsor you, under family reunion provisions. That is why there is so many young men on the boats from Indonesia.

Or I just thought, if you go to NZ for visit, when you return go straight to immigration at Sydney Airport and apply for asylum there.
A person that fosters all the kids that you do, and keeps eels as pets must need asylum. Its a cynch and we let you out in the community while processing.

Sorry about that Suze, I shouldn’t tell you about my Gourami that I feed slugs and worms to then?

Turns out Banjo that he got a skilled residency application form and I’m not skilled and can’t find just a plain residency form. I don’t get why it is so difficult. I do this every few months then put it in the too hard basket again.

Now why would I want to visit NZ, it’s cold there! All my family are here but useless to me because not in the same state.

Jewely,
Try family reunion, once your son is accepterd and gets his visa.

Bugger paying an agent, don't you know any muslims you can ask how to do it. They have relos that get here all the time, so they would know. Next time you see something in a burka, invite her for coffee and ask her.

I am remembering now! Was it not you who occasionally went out in a burka with nothing underneath, when in the ME. If they only knew? As I said before, you have a wicked sense of humour.

Good Morning Folks,

Well my computer crashed on Friday evening and miraculously came up again this morning so I haven't bee able to post.

Back to the question of Asians. According to World Book Encyclopedia,
most anthropologists in the past, classified all people into three racial groups. According to this three-race theory, everyone belonged to the Caucasoid (white-skinned), Mongoloid (yellow-skinned), or Negroid (black-skinned) race. Many people still think in terms of this classification system. But during the 1900s, many anthropologists rejected it as unscientific. Today, scientists classify all people into 9 or 10 main geographical areas.

According to the three race theory, most people of the countries from the western end of Asia east through India are Caucasoids. Most people east of India are Mongoloids. Small groups of Negroids live in Asia, chiefly on the Malay Peninsula and on such islands as New Guinea, the Philippines, and Sumatra in the south-eastern part of the continent.

The geographical system of racial classification puts most Asians into either the European, Indian, or Asian racial group. The European racial group is similar to the Caucasoid group of the three-race-theory. It includes Arabs, Iranians, Jews, Turks, and most other Asians west of India. Most people of the Indian racial group live in India and Pakistan. These people are Caucasoids according to the three-race-system. The great majority of Asians east of India - Mongoloids in the three-race-system - are Asians according to the geographical system. Members of the Asian racial group include Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and most peoples of southeastern Asia.

Of course there is the existence of a wide variety of ethnic groups and this is one of the most important features of Asia's population. And Asia has dozens of ethnic groups - both large and small. The members of an ethnic group may be united by the same language, the same religion, a common ancestry, or all of these characteristics. A single country may have several groups. Asia's largest ethnic groups include the Arabs of the south-west, the Hindus of India, and the Chinese of the east.

Now as for Muslims ...

cont'd...

cont'd ...

Islam is one of the world's major religions. It claims the allegiance of a fifth of the entire human population. Many Westerners often think of Islam as an Arab religion, most Muslims are not Arabs. The largest Muslim populations are in Indonesia and Pakistan and there are large concentrations of Muslims in China and the former Soviet Union. Islam is the second-largest faith in Europe after Christianity, and it competes with Christianity in many black African countries.

Over the past decade, religious fervour has erupted in the Islamic world in general and in the Middle East in particular. This fervour has been inspired by fundamentalism and Western interference.

To many Westerners Islamic fundamentalism seems like an almost scandlous return to a medieval morality. It conjures up images of women behind veils, of adulterers being stoned, of thieves having their hands cut off, of public floggings and executions, of martyrdom in holy wars, and in extreme cases, of political fanaticism exemplified in aircraft hijackings and terrorist bombings.

This picture is rather distorted, for its based on what is newsworthy, rather than what is typical.

Banjo in his posts suggests that we should discriminate against what he considers "extreme" cultures that don't fit into our perceived Australian way of life. I've tried to explain that our Immigration policies follow United Nations Guidelines and select immigrants that in their opinion can make a contribution to the Australian nation. The Department screens all applicants according to set criteria that will support social cohesion. which includes obedience to our laws.

People with criminal records or political activism in their countries of origin are basically unacceptable. There is no way of making judgements on the future behaviour once the immgrants have settled. For example, currently, the majority of the residents of our prison systems are not foreign born.

Lexi "Over the past decade, religious fervour has erupted in the Islamic world in general and in the Middle East in particular."

And this is going to abate sometime soon?
How about we avoid people from those backgrounds until the dust has settled?

"To many Westerners Islamic fundamentalism seems like an almost scandlous return to a medieval morality. It conjures up images of women behind veils, of adulterers being stoned, of thieves having their hands cut off, of public floggings and executions, of martyrdom in holy wars, and in extreme cases, of political fanaticism exemplified in aircraft hijackings and terrorist bombings."

No need to "conjure up images".
Those are real events. Happening in the 21st century, not the 6th.

The non-discriminatory policy is *not* based on what's real, but on idealisms that cannot and never have been proven.

Everyone-is-equal-and-all-can-live-together-in-peace is ideal.
Some-ethnicities-are-related-to-us-and-some-aren't is *real*.

Bonus benefit from related-to-us policy: those people have the "skills" everyone claims we have a shortage of.

"People with criminal records or political activism in their countries of origin are basically unacceptable. There is no way of making judgements on the future behaviour once the immgrants have settled."

There is such a thing as *statistical probability*, a concept used routinely in making all kinds of political decisions.

No, you can't tell if a particular Lebanese immigrant will commit crimes, but you can determine if Lebanese immigrants are 27% (or whatever the figure is) more *likely* to commit crimes.
Again, a judgment based on real data, not idealistic fairytales.

"For example, currently, the majority of the residents of our prison systems are not foreign born."

Oh, you're sooooo clever!
What are the *proportional* representations?

Dear Shock...

I wasn't trying to be clever or contentious. I'm a librarian by profession and I base my judgements on doing research and delving into subjects. From memory I believe that of people serving current jail terms - 78% are local born. However, you can Google the subject yourself - or look things up through the ABS, the Australian Year Book, or any other almanacs that give prison stats. Or if you have difficulties - go to your local or state library.

In the meantime, I'd like to Thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. The responses have exceeded my expectations and are appeciated. However as I'm about to go on leave I'd like to wish you all a very enjoyable Easter-break and see you on another thread when I come back. Enjoy your time with family and friends.

All The Best.