We may well wander in to climate change, but lets look first at growth and current known impacts.
1750 to 1800 our population is said to have been one billion.
With the coming of the industrial revolution we began to climb to todays massive numbers and continue to grow at extreme rates.
In just numbers is humanity impacting on our planet?
Farmers know over stocking a paddock can change it forever, introduce weeds kill pasture for years.
What do others think,can the planet sustain even more population growth.
Impacts, lets not forget some country's are trying to reduce numbers,in China and maybe India one child seems to be creating a world with no women to marry the only sons.
Just maybe a future war will be fought to women can be won as wives in some country's.

Belly,
We may well differ on human induced climate change but I share your concern about the growing world population. In fact I see population as a far greater threat than GW, human induced or not.

The way I see it is that with predicted shortages of oil we will be unable to grow the food for many people and many will starve. This will happen in places like Africa when famine hits and the West does not have enough food to spare to give them. Already our fish stocks are becoming short and I do not see much room for agricultural expansion. I think China is smart in buying further agricultural land in other countries.

However Iran has shown that birthrates can be lowered by education in contraception. The birthrate in Iran dropped from 3.2 to 1.2. See article below.

http://www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2001/update4ss

If religion does not get in the way, it shows we can reduce the population by non draconian means that should lead to a better life for all concerned. The questin is, do we have the will to do it?

Dear Belly,

We do have a serious problem. As our population continues to grow our "needs" increase and our capacity for exploitation expands. All over the world, and especially in the less developed societies, the pressure of the human population and its technologies is devastating
natural ecosystems. This pressure takes many forms - from urbanization and highway construction, transformation of virgin lands into farmland: chemical pollution of fresh water; dredging and landfill in coastal areas; uncontrolled hunting and poaching (especially in African wildlife) deliberate and accidental poisoning of wildlife with pesticides; strangulation of millions of birds and fish with discarded styrofoam pellets, plastic bags, and other synthetic flotsam; dam construction and irrigation; and massive deforestation.

The planet has a finite amount of resources and it can tolerate only so much exploitation and ravaging. If world population continues to grow rapidly, if industrialisation spreads around the world and if pollution and resource depletion continues at an increasing rate - and all these things continue - where is human society headed?

The most optimistic answer is that one way or another sweeping social changes will be awaiting us. Many people don't see our ravaging of the environment as "ravaging" at all. They look upon it as "progress" or "development." Many are so used to exploiting natural resources and dumping their waste products into the environment that they don't think or simply forget that resources are limited and exhaustible that pollution can disrupt the ecological balance on which our very survival depends.

PS:

The world's population is well over six and a half billion and growing.

I expect planet earth will institute some sort of population "correction" sometime in the future (she seems somewhat adept at that).

The fascinating aspect of all this that the richest 1 billion people in the world use 80% of the resources - (that would be the greedy-pants West).

So we can wring our hands and shake our heads at the rapid growth of population in third world countries....

We can laud the "Green Revolution" in India that has produced vast yields , yet robbed the peasants of their knowledge and agency, poisoned the countryside and depleted water tables.
We might also note that much of this "yield" is stockpiled to keep prices artificially inflated. People still die of malnutrition in India.

We can shout Hoorah! that China empties its villages of all but children and grandparents, while the able-bodied flock to the cities to ramp up China's economic growth.
How can we deny them what we have?

We have a good life ion the West, but let's not forget who are the gluttons....it's us.

If we take one thousand directions in this thread we will leave another thousand unmentioned.
My view is that further population growth is not,, yet sustainable.
And that we will suffer just at todays figures soon.
In 1750 we burned coal in small tonnages, mostly to warm our selves.
Timber too was used and we built boats and homes from it, we had little regard for it.
A billion of us,we killed each other in wars and disease's killed a great deal more.
We began the industrial Revelation and better health care and research about the same time.
In Australia from post world war one we used massive chains between bulldozers to destroy Forrest's to open up farm lands that often failed.
We know, we need land to live, but turn our best farm land in to housing land.
Already a drought prone land we continued to farm as if rain would change its century's old patterns and come .
I do not look for wise men to change anything, we can never agree on this subject and may never see the true out comes.
I look with concern and fear at a side issue in Lybias conflict, not the only country by far,but it imports most of its food!
What after oil for such country's.
Refugees ,we love to be angry about them, but a basic truth can not be avoided, most want to eat.

How much coal have we burnt from 1750 till today.
How many trees cut down and not replaced.
What is todays population of the world.
How many in 50 more years.
How much farming land is no longer usable.
How much more is becoming so.
We grow much more food now but every day some starve.
Has population impacted on the planet.
Can we continue to grow, build homes in flood and earth quake zones.
I think we are confronted by our own need for growth.

The same old trout, in the same old Oxygen starved pond:)....Oh this week just keeps on getting better:)

And I,ll bet a million dollars, There all Queenslanders?...lol..

But then again.....Oxygen is something we no-longer invest in:)

1...What are the definitions of a country, that sells all it has:)

2...What are the smartest people on earth:)

3...What will they of think next, when sh!t hits the fan:)

LOL.....sorry people, I have to go.....I have to power up my scooter.

World population, its impacts...........IMO....see these out of dates..........Turn all old people into cat food:)

all the best:)

LEAP

Leap!hang in there old mate! you lend humor to the thread.
Your impressive self confidence is so miss placed it is not easily seen, as is any understanding.
Now industrial rev in be tween 1750 and 1800, we started to burn more fossil fuel mainly coal.
Left the land and grouped in city's.
But 1990 what was the world population? how much, very little, petroleum had we burned?
What is todays population.
How much oil have we burned? coal? can any one tell of a country that is short of clean water?
How many country's can not produce enough food for just their own population?
And we intend to continue to grow world population?
I now must speak to leap again,I have a short fuse but have calmed just in these few lines.
Thanks Leap, in posting that JUNK you confirm many who are not concerned about all of our impacts are at best unable to think.

Belly,

I think LEAP is concerned about sustainability....trouble is that he is more concerned with his (erroneous) idea of himself as extremely clever and witty.....hence, he is seduced into ridiculing his fellow posters just so he can demonstrate to himself the scintillating effect of his profound wisdom.

Every now and then he posts an insightful comment, but mostly he attempts to crash the party, graffiti the walls, blow a raspberry - then wish us all the best : )

This is a common attention seeking device - and one usually employed by people who believe they are cleverer than they are.

But, Belly, I do understand. There's something singularly irritating about a person who tips a bucket of derision on your head - and then wishes you all the best.

Makes you want to ell the protagonist to take a flying....(LEAP) : )

belly,
You have given us the history lesson.

How about you now put forward your ideas on how to stablize the worlds population.

Many can see the looming problems, what we need now is discussion on ways and means to reduce the population problem. No one wants to see people starve.

My thoughts are to start with the lessons from Iran.

The genie is out of the bottle on this one, has been for a while.
What we have is ever more people, all wanting more. Eventually the
whole lot will crash and nature will sort it out the hard way.

*trouble is that he is more concerned with his (erroneous) idea of himself as extremely clever and witty*

Very true, Poirot. The result is that he's not making much of
a useful contribution. Humour is great, but a little intelligence
would be nice too.

As to your Western guilt trip, I'm not on it. We in the West
consume more because we can. But much of what we produce, also
goes to the the third world, so it depends on how you calculate the
figures. I can use resources like copper, steel etc, all recyclable.

I might consume resources, as I do, to grow food for the third world.

The problem seems to be human nature. I for instance, am quite content
with life and what I have. Others always want more. When I ask
them why, they can't really explain it, they just do. Kind of
instinct I guess.

So I don't get too upset about the things that I cannot change
and just enjoy every day. I think its beyond humans to sort out,
they arn't smart enough. So nature will do it the painfull way
in the end. So be it.

Dear Banjo,

The nations of the world are trying to control their population growth through one or more of three strategies: family planning: antibirth policies: and economic improvements.

The strategy of family planning involves parents' use of contraception to limit the number of their offspring. Nearly all the nations of Asia and many countries in other parts of the world are already committed to population limitation through family planning. But no society has yet managed to achieve a significant drop in its
birth rate through this means alone. I guess part of the reason could be that people have to be persuaded to make use of contraceptive technology, and they will not do so if the technology runs counter to their values. Family planning is an essential element in population limitation, but the strategy is not sufficient in itself.

Antinatalism - the strategy involved to public policies intended to discourage birth. These policies include educational programs aimed at changing social values and attitudes about family size. The Japanese Government follows a particularly dramatic anti-birth policy by encouraging widespread abortions. Couples who have only one child receive financial benefits and preferential treatment in jobs and housing. Those who have more than two children are considered as anti-social deviants, a big thing in a highly conformist society.

There is evidence that economic reform might bring about a lower birth rate. In other words if people are allowed to enjoy such basics of life as food, shelter, clothing, health care, education (especially for women), and a sense that things will be better in the future, then they tend to voluntary limit the size of their families. The family-planning efforts of many less developed nations fail, it seems because the resources of these societies are unfairly shared. Typically a tiny elite enjoys a disproportionate share (and its birth rate drops). The mass of the people remain in hopeless poverty, and maintain high birth rates.

Policies that focus on a sharing of resources, rather than exclusively on economic development that may benefit only a minority
may be a promising way to reduce global population growth.

Poirot! Do not attempt to profile on the Internet.....cause 9 times out 10 you will get it wrong.

Of course Iam concerned about sustainable human growth.... arnt you? and Iam afraid Yabby is right. We have the knowingness for causing our own extinction...and yet, we continue like its made up by fools. I gave a plan 4 years ago here under a different name and know long-term members intermittently by observations only....and do I change I,D,s from time to time....it saves me from going through thousands of posts to find past martial I need. Now! I said, new Laws will have to be put in place, with world-wide attentions made publicly of the way we do business here on this planet.

1..If someone wants a child with government support, A 1 year window will open.
2..A 5 year No birth period will be put in place, unless of course you wish to pay for the child all the way through its life till 21, with No government support until after that 21 birth-date. So if you can afford to have a child, careful planing will have to be put in place for all its needs.
3...Those that can not afford that, the one year window will be open for you with government assistants. Those that will break the right, and give birth as we please ( DOCS and or Family services will run as usual with adoption agencies for replacement to those that can afford, but can not have children )

With this in place.....2 things will seen. Population decrease and No more childrearing in poverty. The two will join in time, and a new society is born.

Or options A....B....C

A Unleash deadly disease.

B World war 3...(the war-fare human eradication program)

C Which is Yabbies idea and probably the way it will go....(The natures way of balancing all things)

Anyway you want to look at this.....the human-race is in trouble.

You dont really think by the time 10 billion comes around, all will be fine....

LEAP

Bravo! LEAP....

I may not agree with your ideas, but at least you put them forward.

(I tend to agree with Yabby also that nature will organise things to her satisfaction.)

"I may not agree with your ideas, but at least you put them forward.

Well...Thank-you Poirot.

LEAP

Well Bazz not easy task, I just want to add this then my answer.
Forget sustainability, I doubt we are ready to suffer for it.
In this coming decade and the next humanity will take a correction.
Mass starvation, because some parts of the world can not produce its needs.
Wars many more than in our night mares as small dictatorships fight to put a new criminals in charge.
Water, world wide wars over water.
Bazz aid can not keep up now,deaths take place because of food and health shortages even in refugee camps, we will see millions in these camps soon all over the world.
Sharing to the point of hurting our selves is not the answer.
Keeping Lunatics in power because they are on our side or not as bad as another is gutless.
First step aid money based on ability to grow food preserve water and have a workable population control plan in place.
Leap, good description of you in my view as you sew so will you reap, never said great man made wisdom does not live in the Bible thou however are not a God.

Dear Belly,

The guys who wrote the Bible also thought the world was flat.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)

Belly...Never be afraid to express yourself about anything, even if its a little out there........ or sometimes in my case alot:). I for one, if I make a fool of myself, I have learnt something. A label is just a label, and some of histories greatest men have been laughed at for there having a go with new idea,s.

Thomas Alva Edison once said......It took me 2000 ways how not to make a light globe......but only one way to make it work:).....and the people laughed at him as he failed and failed again, but just one new idea made it work, and the people rejoiced. Belly, I think you'll find a lot of failed people still today, trying to find answers that got us here in the first place.....

LEAP

Please Leap do not get me wrong.
I take no joy in personal insults, back have no reverse gears.
At times my record here will show big blots on my own behavior.
We have had many storms over the years here,sometimes my refusal to back down saw me feed them.
I was wrong.
We know only what we see here of each other, words do not tell of hight body age hair.
In reality a thing as clear as body language exists in print.
Our ego is on display.
I think in another year of growth you may be a different person.
Take on board this,as is true of ham radio and long ago CB radio,if we meet we would find we have built wrong impressions about each other.
Such is life.
I like OLO,but have seen some awful things said about other posters here.
We prove nothing by child like insults.
I have been called a supporter of pedophilia, and even a pedophile, things I truly hate.
The list is long.
In life I dislike ego that belittles others, intelligence that believes only its owners thoughts.
Mate I am a counter puncher no back down, but the first to put my hand out to forget it happened if its needed, not to retreat however

Lexi that adds to my view humanity, has the ability that book, man made is full of wisdom.
Now some,only some of us will know how bad things are right now.
And some ,fewer will know how bad it will get.
Here is the problem, like it or not we in my view will not truly confront it.
In truth millions will die because we squabble not act.
We can not either act on Green house gases or not right now so how will we get together over self interest and fix human population?
If we take a land called Noddy, it is oil rich but grows very little food.
people are ruled by a tyrant, plenty to pick from, no living or dead person intended.
He buys arms from east and west both want him on side.
A million are starving there.
Refugees are flooding country's all around rumor has it his forces are killing refugees.
What do we do?
Lets consider the United Nations is real, that power of veto has been modified and we intend to act not say we may one day.
A UN that had good intentions would over throw him not replacing him with another puppet.
That country would HAVE TO ACT on birth control food a host of issues and live under A UN mandate for at least a decade to find its way, no personal riches via aid.

"Please Leap do not get me wrong...belly I ever get you wrong. I've always admired the inner strengths of those that deserve recognition:) its true about some Australian,s Belly, they certainly are amazingly diversed in their ranked groupings...lol...I shouldn't laugh.....we city people arnt much better:)

"I take no joy in personal insults," But belly;) Isn't that the way, the Australians commute their communicative values? What are some of those friendly words....Oh yes...WOGS, Blow-ins, slope-heads, and when other people from other counties comes to stay.....Trust me! They are in shock at so-called normal behaviours:) And me! Iam just a loud mouthed drunken moron, thats so obnoxious, I just cant meet any new friends:) But I promise that I,ll try harder to understand those I dont...lol....

Just pulling your leg Belly...:) My sense of humour sometimes gets the better of me. However your right about one thing....."You reap what you sow" but the funny thing is, I haven't planted anything...and people talk about
World populations, and its impacts........well I could type all day about that one.

Cheer,s LEAP

Cheers to you too leap.
Keep in mind how ever only the letter T separates a Wit from a Twit.
To ad evidence why I think our future is bleak I want to return to the past.
In that pre industrial revolution year 1750 the worlds population was one billion.
That had taken how many years?
We once believed Australia first saw humans 40.000 years ago ,some now say 5 times that far back.
In the following years till now we doubled then doubled again world population.
We are told that will happen again in 50 years, what then.
We keep improving food production, or is it threatening it? by playing with it.
We duck and weave the truth about immigration, refugees for sure and certain, but must confront our own country's future.
We fail, every time, to put the earth first.
Lexi tells of birth control efforts in some country's, but doomed in my view to fail.
In country's all over the world sons are valued more, but who will they wed.
Wars will be fought over brides.

OK it has to be said.
I doubt we can willingly change anything in the time span we would have to act.
It seems we no longer look till the problem is here or just around the corner.
Of late more than ever humanity wants to split in to two camps on every issue, observe climate change.
Is it possible in these cases those with the most to defend ignore truth?
Look at tobacco industry for a start.
Green house gasses, just pretend, if we have not contributed to world temperature rises will we ever.
From one billion population in the first how many thousands of years.
To double on double that in 260 years.
If we are not impacting on the world we should be very surprised.

It has been pointed out to me in another thread that I am using this thread to promote the idea green house gasses are man made and a driver of climate change.
YES I BELIEVE THAT.
I live in a tourist area, they say a third of Sydney's population come here and here abouts for holidays.
At such times you can not get room to cast a fishing line and our rubbish bins are flowing over.
After the rush it takes a lot to clean up the mess, I suspect it is not unlike Monday at the footy ground.
Masses of people leave mess.
So why would we ignore the idea it is the same for the earth.
I think without climate change we are heading for man made disaster, food water room to live wars for every one of those things and more.
If growth stops, and it must we will have new problems yet unthought of.
But humanity must confront its issues not hide them