Thought I would say Gday, before ducking out to a market day.
We met before a month before Kevin 07 won.
I was in the back row you out the front in the lime light, never agreed with much you said.
From the NSW centerer unity side of the tracks, not your old stamping ground the left.
Looking around this morning at the earth quake Tsunami lemming march,bit hard to take.
Still bringing my wheel barrow we can clean this lot up.
Now we are looking ok in Canberra, helped along by Tiny Tony, brain not body,
But should we look at cash for clunkers,roof insulation, ETS then no ETS , what about we get some one else,some one who can put ideas together and move them on instead of the blo%$y idiot who made these policy's.
We look as professional as well , that word hardly fits us.
We have been lucky Tony has lost the plot but if Turnbull took over now this morning in NSW would be our fate.
How about we make policy's and stick to them, put her in reverse backup, go back to an ETS and bring on an election if greens try to ride on our back, do what we must with pride.
We have had a rubber back bone for too long.

Hi Belly,

We'll have to wait and see if Premier-elect Barry O'Farrell has what it takes. Whether his will be a Government that sees its task only in political terms. Will it govern for the whole community or only for its own voters and its own electorates? Will it redistribute resources, restore balance and maintain it? We'll have to wait and see. As the Editorial piece in The Sydney Morning Herald stated -
A change of Government is partly an illusion. The personnel and labels change, however the problems don't and often neither do the solutions. Most importantly, nor do the interest groups that affect them. The Coalition will be subject to the same pressures and incentives that Labor felt and were seduced by. When I read that Jeff
Kennett was giving Barry O'Farrell advice I was appalled. Kennett was a disaster for Victoria. Hopefully, for NSW - O'Farrell will know better than to listen to him. As for Labor in NSW - they were in for
16 years and as the former Premier said - there are many lessons to be learned but above all, the importance of unity and the importance of putting the people they serve first and the principles they hold above other motivations is the key to being successful in politics.
Time will tell whether any pollies were listening.

Lexi always great to see you in a thread, you are a bright light in any subject.
I get no joy in saying what I must here, but my unshakable loyalty to my party demands truth.
Barry will do very well, his honey moon may last two years.
And lets face it, Labor has to rebuild before it gets up and walking, that will do for a start.
Historic it sure is, but Barry never won, Labor lost.
Nothing to do with Gillard or carbon.
See I could never lay the evidence of pure crimes I have seen here, not tell of ministers who look after the people they need, union heads,but cripple workers without pain.
Labor has a monkey off its back, NSW is not producing muck every day.
Our leader went extremely well, showed more leadership in this campaign and in the out standing gutsy good by last night.
But she did close Parliament, so we could not hear more about the power sell off
I hope I am an average Aussie, and wish Barry all the best, my party has to earn even my respect.
And it will watch our new leader go!

Belly, for god sake, please stop trying to foist Turnbull onto the country.

I can see why you like him, he is another idiot, of the same type as Rudd. Oz needs him like a hole in the head.

If you Labor lot like him so much, draft him, & you could have your third no-hoper leader in a row.

Better still form a new party, with him as your leader, & get the fool out of the coalition, where he is a bad influence, causing nothing but harm, & not put him into Labor, who have enough than enough trouble of their own.

Well Julia wish you could have been with me this morning, in my pocket so no one could see you.
Then you could have heard and seen what I did.
Lower end of the federal seat Rob Oakshot holds.
Elderly retirees and farming types, bit red neck.
I wore my country Labor cap, figure its the first day in a long rebuilding task.
Had my union shirt on, bought plenty and will wear them with pride.
We the ALP should hold these seats,ex city folk and battlers but we seem to be afraid to have a go.
From what I gather we are not trusted to pick policy's and stay with it, any idea why?
Maybe I should be honest, you frighten me, always have, I think you as much at least as Rudd stalled my party.
And until we get you out of the leadership my party is facing decades in the other side of the house.
Any chance we can find a back bone?
Lets face it greens are no mate of ours we can only do well out of fighting them while their decline is underway.

*And until we get you out of the leadership my party is facing decades in the other side of the house.*

Hang on Belly, she's actually Prime Minister right now. Perhaps
you are just a bad judge of women :)

I actually rate Julia far higher, then your little mate who runs
the AWU.

Well perhaps we are entering an era in politics not seen since 96, whereby the incoming party has actually 'won' an election, as opposed to the usual that happens, that being the sitting party loosing.

And if the late mail here in QLD is any guide, we to may be turning in that positive direction.

Another interesting point is the 'flogging' handed out to the independents. Well guys (independents), you can thank your mate 'oakshot' for that result.

At last, something to be positive about again. Hurrah!

Bring it on.

Hasbeen are you aware? do you understand you posts very often say think only what I do?
Be assured posts like that, out standing wrong, are a call for me to control my ideas and thoughts.
Did you see those polls? it was and is clear Turnbull has more who want him leading than Abbott.
Now rechtub, how did you get your information on NSW?
Did you stand with hundreds of ALP members at this states conference and hear leadership tell them they did not care about voters?
Read today, look please, Bob Carr's story in todays Australian, no better leader ever lead the ALP.
I disagree with him on power sell of but would have followed him.
He knows Labor defeated its self, Barry ran a quite achievers race and will be well liked but like Hasbeen you must consider other views exist.
Yabby, sorry but she can not be trusted polling shows she has lost a section of our own vote over yes no climate change she can not last.

Belly, Rehctub here. I am really trying to think positive about this.

After all, it is my side, the 'risk takers' who will make this country return to the great place it was.

We take risks, borrow money, create jobs, the wheels turn again.

There is no better feeling than success. Everyone benefits.

Come with my on this one.

Belly and SM,
It just occurred to me. If the major parties don't want to be held to ransom by the Greens, in the Senate and other Upper Houses, then it is time that they stopped ignoring the Greens or getting into bed with them.

How about the majors giving some publicity to some of the Greens policies to make voters aware of the extreme policies. I am sure many vote Green without knowing their policies.

Or they could subject the Greens to the same treatment they gave ON. Not very fair, but effective.

Something for the majors to consider.

Banjo I agree totally.
But it can not happen in todays federal Parliament.
It should take place, in fact must for this country's sake, but will not.
However fear not,the ALP lemming march in NSW herded by its own voters, should have seen the greens pick up near double figure increases.
They on todays count have a one percent increase.
Rechtub, understand I disagree, I am a share holder, my risk is far greater than yours.
Except my home my funds are all I have.
And every cent is at risk, if you buy pumpkins for a dollar and sell them for 80 cents you should not blame government for your failures.
Meet the market, have a few specials, in your case dole bludgers snags.
Sorry mate had to tickle you there.
Why can it not happen Banjo?
Hear about this mornings rant in federal Parliament?
Abbott called for standing orders to be put aside so he could rant on about climate change killing Labor in NSW.
If it did it had me knowing I could not vote Labor here 4 years ago.
Confrontation is harming our country if in September we had an election.
If Abbott won, he would need to deal with the greens.
IF both sides sat down and made deals we could walk around the beggars in both houses.
Why not Tony/Julia?

Belly,
We both know that Parliament is mainly for show. This morning exhibition was only trying to score a media article. Some truth in it also, as am sure the Carbon Tax cost Labor a few votes. But concede that Labor was well gone before Julia announced the tax.

Next election coming up is Queensland. There is no reason why an awareness campaign regarding the extreme Greens policies could not begin up there as of now. Surely the NSW result gave Labor a fright in Balmain and Marrickville? Then state by state until the next Fed election. Already some are talking about a loss for Labor in Queensland so you will need all the primary votes you can get. Past time to ignore the Greens.

How about showing the Greens want to lower the age of consent, legalise all drugs and completely abolish our defence forces. And there are others if one takes a look.

The Labor party can not fight the Greens, with out green preferences Labor would no longer be any kind of political force in Oz. Richardson saw the writing on the wall, & moved Labor strategy to that of buying the vote of fringe groups, which kept them alive, but cost them the vote of people for whom principal matters.

The problem with buying votes is you have to keep doing it. Hence we see our Anna in Qld, buying the same green vote every couple of years with even more extreme legislation to please them.

The only salvation for Labor, & probably for the country as a whole, is for them to bite the bullet, & do a deal with the coalition to swap preferences with each other. Labor would suffer a big loss for a couple of elections, but with genuine policies could then fight back.

Unfortunately the coalition will be feeling so strong now, after this win, that they may reject any Labor backroom moves to talk about this. I hope not, as we are going to find ourselves even more ruled by a small but smart minority if the big 2 can't get together.

I can't believe that her carbon [dioxide] tax has not been forced on little Julia, to get her into the lodge. Be it that, or just stupidity, by the time the next election comes around, her tax will see her struggling to do as well as the NSW lot did last Saturday.

Hasbeen I truly am not having a go at you.
First preference Labor almost always out votes conservatives.
Greens have fed on ALP refugees, those refugees are unlikely to go conservative.
It is a fact,no room to debate, one vote one value and Labor wins ALMOST EVERY TIME.
You know I share an anti green stand with you and Banjo, middle Australia does, most of us do.
BUT remember PLEASE the Country/National party, ALP defectors DLP Tasmanian senator elected as ALP and the absorbed one nation, now party of both your COALITION help you in power and opposition.
These facts remain, no argument not based on truth can be made, it is fact.
And it is also fact while many want a different style of Parliament, more independents maybe more party's we mostly vote one or the other.
And are better for it.
Question, would we be better of with no senate? supplement to that do voters want the party in government to have the power or do they want the current situation.
One vote one value, we got it in the state vote why can we not have it in the federal one.
Bazz greens, even here in OLO claimed Those two seats before the election, we thought they had every chance of being right.
Hopefully , in a year ALP voters had waited 4 years for, to remove Labor we said lets give Barry a chance.
This bloke is a true Liberal a moderate he will be well liked and give him his chance.
But know the greens fell over end is in sight.

In another thread reference is made to , maybe but unlikely Pauline Hanson winning the last upper house seat in NSW.
Not the greens.
And that in some way the ALP will be up set by this?
Should Julia want proof we must both sell our achievements, and rebut the rubbish it is here.
Todays news papers are full of those who bought NSW ALP to its fate, putting the knife that belongs in their body's in to survivors.
They do less harm than the Abbott fans who blast us with such rubbish, we have a story to tell lets tell it.
And the greens, no conservation party, make claims that cripple carbon tax yet again if we do not declare open war on them.
Abbott has a chance to muffle them pass the cuts.

Belly>>Hasbeen I truly am not having a go at you.
First preference Labor almost always out votes conservatives.

Wake up and smell the roses old mate, you're living in the past as those days are gone!

Fed Labor sat in opp for some four terms, then, they won an outstanding victory, some 85 seats.

In less than one full term they turned that ground breaking win into what can only be described as a 'lick, suck, grobble' approach to gain government at any cost.

Since this act of utter desperation, they have eroded their support even further and, please don't forget that they have achieved this doozy of a result while being held accountable by what can only be described as a 'weak' opposition.

With the NSW 'blood bath' and QLD perhaps heading for a 'slaughterhouse' type of election result, Labor parties, both fed and state will need all the support they can get from their loyal followers like yourself.

The rest of the population has moved on, so perhaps you may wish to consider your options, old mate.

The door is always open for you.

Belly, I’m afraid rehctub has a point, those parts of the ALP to which you subscribe so strongly are long gone. The ALP, its values and the relationship with the Trade Unions is a distant memory.

No matter how low the ALP gets and regardless of the divergence with your traditional values, you still try to justify your passion with “ah but, the opposition is worse”.

It is supporters like you that made the ALP what it was at its best; sadly they deserted you a long time ago

Dear Belly,

It appears that Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party are so desperate to win at any cost that they will even solicit Labor votes as a preference to grant Tony Abbott his wish to be PM. So far we haven't seen any positive and constructive from Mr Abbott in the interest of the nation and its people other than the great desire on his part to be PM no matter what. If he wants to buy that glory he has to put something positive on the table. From what we hear in the media and general conversation that the voters would like Malcolm Turnbull back as Leader of the Opposition.

As for NSW - it was a State Election - and as Labor publicly admitted that the loss was caused by numerous problems that built up over their sixteen years in Government in which especially towards the end
they lapsed in their ability to govern and they placed their politics over the governance of the State. Federal politics is a
totally separate issue and despite the fear mongering of the Libs -
doesn't equate to their being able to win the next Federal Election -
especially with Mr Abbott as their Leader.

As for the "pollution Fine," ("carbon tax"), only a positive Government which plans for the future of the nation and the health of its people would consider reducing the ever increasing pollution that our society produces. Of course if one has no consideration for the future of one's children and grand-children by all means elect Mr
Abbott as the next PM. He will insure that the polluters won't pay
a fine for their pollution - but will be given incentives to pollute more. And health, education, and infrastructure will be put on hold
(as in currently happening in Victoria - with a Liberal State Government).

lexi,
Since when is CO2 a pollutant? It is an essential element that all plants, including trees, require to live and thrive.

An inposed Carbon dioxide tax is simply a money grabber and will lower the earths temperature one ioter. It will be an impost on our economy and add to the cost of living for all Australians.

i am no fan of Abbotts, but he did stop us from having an ETS and that was a positive action.

Going to take a bit to answer all that.
First my ALP, federal government let me down.
It let every one down.
Kevin 07 turned in to a rusty tin can.
Gillard played a roll in that.
Fear not Lexi, NSW was nothing to do with it.
But will have every thing to do with Labors rebirth.
Trade unions, largely, miss use their power in the ALP.
Yep I said that.
Party first is the best policy for the party's founders ,workers.
In a few months we will see new leadership, in both party's.
New directions, in both party's.
If both do not sit down and out flank the greens together we have no politicians in Canberra only fools.
Bazz, bloke it is feeble, a straw man, made to confuse and blind us.
We know carbon makes things grow.
And SURELY you know why its called green house gases? things will grow faster seas will rise ice will melt.
Deserts will grow to food wars may come, water wars will.
Question, any room to look at the matter away from politics and crafted lies?
Rechtub next

Rechtub your self confidence in some threads is miss placed.
Even when I took off for a while I watched your threads get even more lost.
Facts remain my posts as far back as 2008 saw me tell of Saturdays election result.
It got far worse not better.
Todays media is IN FESTERED with those who bought Labor down, knifing our very future.
Our new leader lead us in 2008,in that show down with our party at state conference.
He brilliantly lead in the Work choices fight, along with Greg Combet,and is as good as him.
Labor two party preferred is often better than now, but we out vote Liberals EVERY TIME.
We did on Saturday, our votes gave Barry his landslide.
Now just think, if only you could get your mob to get Abbott out, say beggar this party first, put Turnbull in charge.
With a week Labor would be in trouble, unless change is made.
But in that same week of parliamentary sittings we would have an ETS and forever marginalized GREENS.
How will Conservatives govern without compromise?
We need statesmanship not red neck rage.

Dear Banjo,

The earth has been de-forested savagely - and it continues to be by the expansion of civilisation. The 19th century brought us industrialisation. There are not enough trees left (and they're continued to be destroyed) to maintain the natural balance and they definitely can't cope with the additional pollution produced by industry. Surely you're aware of the fact that all over the world the
pressure of human population and its technologies is devastating natural ecosystems. The planet has a finite amount of resources and it can only tolerate a limited amount of pollution. If world population continues to grow rapidly, if industrialisation spreads around the world, and if pollution and resource depletion continues at an increasing rate - where do you think the human society is headed?

I realise that the pollution problem is a difficult one to solve, mainly because many people like yourself see pollution as a regrettable but inevitable by-product of desired economic development.
"Where there's smoke, there's jobs."

Part of the problem is also that the effects of pollution many not show up for many years, so severe environmental damage can occur with little public awareness that it is taking place.

However, the most industrialised nations are now actively trying to limit the effects of pollution. This will probably not sit very well with people more concerned with economic growth who see pollution as part of the price they have to pay for it - and everything else be damned. Fortunately for us - the current Government (and some members of the Opposition) have a broader perspective than the narrow vision of the current Leader of the Opposition - who only thinks of his own political gains.

Lexi you really are going overboard there. In the west we have reduced our pollution to an almost negligible amount.

After that post I really do have to wonder about your research abilities. It would have me thinking you believe our ABC's propaganda.

Every time they talk global warming we get one of those terribly dishonest cuts to a power station cooling tower, with it's plume of steam, issuing from the top. Yes that's right pure water vapor, the same stuff that comes out of your kettle, when it boils.

Of course the ABC just happen to be using the word population as they show this steam. Don't you feel just a little embarrassed that those championing your point of view have to be so dishonest? Have you ever wondered why they have to act that way? do you ever think that it is because there is no genuine evidence to support the global warming tax grab?

This dishonesty will ultimately bury Gillard & her supporters, & god knows they deserve it. They are prepared to destroy the life prospects of millions to achieve some secret goal, that they are not even prepared to enunciate. If it can't stand the light of day, it must be a con.

Dear Hasbeen,

You can doubt my research skills all you like. It doesn't worry me in the slightest. But I would suggest that you don't have to take my word for it - simply do your own research beginning with the recently
released - Professor Ross Garnaut's Report. Then there's Tor Hundloe's book, "From Buddha to Bono: Seeking sustainability," and it might interest you to know that back in the 1970s - well over 30 years ago - the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) recommended the use of pollution taxes. Then over 80 years ago, one of the last century's most eminent economists, Pigou, called for the same thing. To this day pollution taxes are named after him.

It took the medical profession from the 1960s to the present era to get the public, and governments they elect, to act on the toxic, life-taking efforts of tobacco. Eventually sanity prevailed, although it took over 40 years. It's clearly time for economists to commence their campaign for pollution taxes and getting prices to tell the truth.

I don't have to rely on media spin or the ABC as you suggest for my information. I always use more than one source. I would however politely suggest to you not to rely on the rhetoric of the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues or "Talk-back" radio or any other
unreliable source for your information. Do your own research as I stated at the beginning of this post. The facts are there, all you have to do is take the time to find them.

Lexi,
You still have not answered why you, and the PM, label CO2 as a polutant. It is and essential element of life.

The worlds climate has always changed but it is not fact that we humans have any influence on the changes. There are some things that we have no influence over. Tides, earthquakes, volcanos are some and climate is another. I will change my opinion when it is proven that we influence climate.

Certainly the over population of the world is a problem. A dramatic drop in birthrate was achieved in Iran by education and contrception. I suggest that those with concerns about over population look at the Iran situation and we should take note. Google Iran birthrate should find the details.

A carbon dioxide tax in Aus will NOT lower the world tempwerature or even locally. But the costs will effect everyone. It is stupid.

Lexi, I really can't believe you would pay any attention to anything that bought & paid for hack Garnaut produced.

Then I'm afraid your predigests are showing on the deforestation bit. Recent studies using satellite mapping has shown that there are considerably more trees in Oz than there were at the time of white settlement.

Much natural grassland is being taken over by woody weeds, & stupid anti clearing laws, passed to buy green votes have prevented land owners keeping previously productive land in use.

With the loss of the aboriginal fire stick, & laws preventing white man fire stick, previously open woodlands have become chocked forests, of use to neither man or beast. They no longer support native wildlife, that is accustomed to woodland, not thicket.

With this stupidity I can no longer let trees grow on my property, then choose which I want to keep, which to use, & which to clear, as once they reach a certain size they somehow become the property of some fool public servant.

Nothing gets above a couple of feet now, & it's the fault of greenie ratbags, & lefty politicians trying to buy their vote. Thank god the people of NSW, & hopefully Qld, & the whole country have had enough of dictatorial greenies.

It appears that Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party are so desperate to win at any cost that they will even solicit Labor votes as a preference to grant Tony Abbott his wish to be PM

Lexi, or is it Foxy in disguise. Boy is that the pot calling the kettle black, or what!

>>Surely you're aware of the fact that all over the world the
pressure of human population and its technologies is devastating natural ecosystems.

So why is it that the smallest polluter wants to be first to act?

>> simply do your own research beginning with the recently
released - Professor Ross Garnaut's Report.

I heard somewhere that RG has a degree in Paleontology?(if that's how it's spelt)

Do you take your sick car to the dentist to have it checked out, or do you go to an expert mechanic?

Now if this is the case, how then can anyone take this guy seriously?

Belly>>If both do not sit down and out flank the greens together we have no politicians in Canberra only fools

Here here!

Hasbeen you are right on the money with your last post.

Since the introduction of anti clearing laws we have seen vast areas of land become 'untouched', as opposed to 'broad scale clearing' that took place less than a decade ago. So, there is sufficient evidence to suggest we have taken serious action.

As we both know, when a native Forrest is cleared, regrowth will occur. however, this regrowth, if not maintained, is usually in the form of 'wattle' which is 'useless' and, unless maintained eventually renders the land unusable or even worse, turns it into a haven for Ferrel animals.

There needs to be some serious research into bamboo. Bamboo grows very quickly and exurb's CO2 at six times the rate of trees.

It also has outstanding building qualities.

Of cause, the biggest problem we face is the cost of doing anything.

What really thrills me the most is the fact that I cannot see any difference between the NSW ALP and the federal Government. That is exciting because we might see them go the same way?

Banjo,

As a result of the burning of fuels and wastes and the razing of forests, the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is steadily increasing. This gas creates a "greenhouse effect" on the planet, for it allows solar rays to reach the earth's surface but prevents heat from radiating back into space. The consequence will be a global warming, which will eventually cause the melting of the polar ice caps, a rise in sea levels, and changes in weather patterns.

This warming effect is already under way, and average global temperature is expected to rise by 3 to 8 degrees Fahrenheit by 2030.
This seems like a small change, but minor fluctuations in global temperature can have drastic consequences.

The warmer climate expected in the next century will bring about changes in the global circulation patterns that drive the weather; more powerful storms and more numerous hurricanes; a three-foot rise in sea levels; flooding of river delta cities such as Cairo ; inundation of low-lying areas like the Netherlands; seepage of salt water into many fresh-water sources; and aridity in previously fertile areas. By the end of the 21st century, global temperature may have increased by as much as 9 degrees, raising sea levels by ten to twelve feet, turning tropical areas into deserts, and creating a climate far warmer than anything humanity has ever experienced.

Most of the climatic, agricultural, and ecological patterns we are familiar with today would be completely disrupted, and there is no knowing what the ultimate consequence would be for life on the planet and for human society.

As I stated in my previous post part of the problem is that this
and other atmospheric pollution is not an inevitable outcome of industrial technology: it derives also from political decisions to tolerate pollution rather than bear the costs - probably including slower economic growth - of limiting it.

Control of pollution anywhere is as we know - politically difficult as the economic interests behind "smokestack" industries are powerful political lobbies that are reluctant to commit the necessary resources to the task.

Dear Hasbeen and others,

You don't have to accept Professor Garnaut's assessment, there are numerous other sources available and these have prompted 36 other nations to act on climate change.

We in Australia have always had the reputation for the attitude, "If it ain't broke don't fix it." That has simply been an excuse for inaction. And it has taken us many decades to catch up with world progress. In this case however, we can no longer wait - and risk doing so at our own peril as the lack of preparation for major floods has proven. We're fortunate that with our current
Government an attempt is being made to safeguard the nation and the planet for future developments in climatic conditions.

Just as for bush-fires if the undergrowth isn't cleared, the owners of properties are not prepared, major loss and death results as recently experienced in Victoria.

Do nothing is not an option.

Lexi, CO2 does not, & in fact can not produce a greenhouse effect. In fact it is probable that it has a cooling effect.

Try reading a couple of recent posts on JoNovs's blog on the physics involved. It is not that deep really, you don't require a B Sc to understand it.

Dear Hasbeen,

Kindly Google "Causes of Greenhouse Effect," it should carify things for you Sir. I can't be held responsible for your comprehension skills, (or lack of).