Should Australia start to depend on United States for its defences and other things, or should Australia be building up its independant strengths.

With our small population, it would not matter what our defense capabilities were. It certainly will be a good idea to have an american presents here. We live in an asian dominated part of the world, like Israel lives in an Arab world. It was not long ago all of our defense was based in the south, may be an invasion from Tas was the problem.
We should be building our own equipment. The bushmaster is built here and quite often tours around town. No reason why tanks can not be built here.

Rely on our own strengths and act independently- thus we get to avoid the mess of participating in wars in the Middle East and then signing ourselves as obligated to rebuild the country, station soldiers to get shot at, be responsible for their refugee problems and put on terrorist hit-lists and ensure countries suspicious of the USA will also be suspicious of ourselves and make us the first target they go for if the USA invades:

All because China and Indonesia are, apparently plotting to invade us- despite doing so would substantially harm their import and export marketing and logistical businesses.

Because they're jealous, apparently (ignoring Indonesia is a series of very large tropical islands with prime farmland, and China is not only much larger landmass than Australia, but has a smaller ratio of desert within it than we do).

australias strength is
only those who live here can hold it

any invasion force would be so sepperated by distance
so vulnerable by sea air and land..

as to not be able to support a reason for invasion for very long

we see what a simple flood does to this continent
take out a few bridges and let it rain

its absurd to spend a lot on defence
no one could hold it for long

It would be cheaper, better & more effective overall if Australia just paid America on a contract basis in the event of conflict. With the money left over due to no wastage we could provide thousands of apprenticeships & within two or three years we'd see a marked improvement in mentality/society.

Should we just buy some nuclear weapons or technology OUG, and tell the Yanks
to mind their own business ?.

We probably should have done so, during the arms race. 30 to 50 years or so ago.
Naturally we would have been making a lot more of our own decisions by now.

You have to consider this, when a place the size of Australia is up to defend. There is no way our defence force would ever realistically be able to defend all of our territory/coastline, if someone did attack us.

Currently our troops are engaged in other peoples conflicts and politics, instead of defending our shores, as part of international forces of occupation, not here defending us if we were attacked anyway.

I also believe that it is not entirely clear that "in any world circumstance", the U.S. Alliance is an absolute certainty for Australia, instead believing that the U.S. would act in it's own perceived best interests at all times, in reality.

Also, in the event the USA and China went to war, one would be asked if they realistically expected that the USA, who would be understandably trying to wall up the entire latitudinal width of the Pacific Ocean from a naval attack, would kindly decrease their chances of NOT leaving a weak enough defense for some Chinese battleships and aircraft carriers to launch a long-range attack through and reign havoc on the mainland, and kindly divert a couple hundred ships along the Java sea to keep us safe too, remembering how we would always send a hefty couple of hundred guys to help their tens of thousands in the many wars they fought.

Even the 'we make a good stop-off base for the USA to want to protect' isn't quite going to weigh up 'not-getting-bombed-by-China-launching-an-Easterly-Assault' as a list of strategic priorities.

Once again China is the boogy man, building their army and arsenal, what a load of American alarmist bull scheiser all meant to keep the military industrial complex in the money.

Consider the twentieth century, Russia and America fought wars or aided one faction over another in countless foreign lands for most of that century. China got involved in two major conflicts that were virtually on their door step so to speak, Korea and Vietnam, hardly the economic expansionist and control agendas that the Ruskies and the Yanks practiced for half a century.

In any future world-wide conflict there won't be a winner. The whole world will lose. Those with the least dependency on computer related technology in the event of a conflict will have the best chance of surviving. I fail to see Australia having any strenghts whatsoever. The only factor in Australia's favour is that due to the limited people holding capacity no-one will seriously bother to actually fight a war here. Why fight a war with Labor's immigration policy anyway, just jump on an old boat & that's it. We're being invaded now & we don't try & stop anyone. What hope is there if someone used force ?

we should have our own nukes.

Only then could we go it alone.

Austin Powerless,
Are you serious ? I wouldn't trust any of them with a slingshot !

Well said Austin, and more succinct that I can say it.

It's a big country and the only way to defend it, is to have a serious strike capability or capacity
to deter interested possible future aggressors from attempting acquistion.

But your right Individual it could be a worry, to think about who might get control of this capability, in times of pressure.
It is a big responsibility.

>>Should Australia start to depend on United States for its defences and other things, or should Australia be building up its independant strengths.

WITH WHAT!

We can't even properly care for our own pensioners, or ensure they have running water or air conditioning, unless of cause they go without most everything else. We can however come to the aid of every other 'swinging dick' out there, and I'm not referring to natural disasters.

Maybe we should have an american controlled zone in AU, AU defence spending paid to america. in return for our security. They could control and pay our soldiers etc. Park a couple of carriers in the area.
Our position in the asian world, must look very inviting

The population of China is about 1,357,022,986 but it keeps rising faster than I can type and I'm not using an old fashoned 'qwerty' keyboard.
Our population is some 22,585,260 plus a boatload or two today.

So learn mandarin.

Or be prepared to raise an Army of at least 10,000,000.

So learn mandarin.

Or be prepared to raise an Army of at least 10,000,000.
is Mise,

That's a more realistic appraisal of the situation as it stands.

national service, could serve more than have an armed reserve.

What we need is a huge militia of citizen soldiers and a rifle and ammunition in every home.

Is Mise, such a force today, would be about as much use against a trained & properly equipped force, as the rebels are proving to be in Tunisia.

You people do realize that in event of invasion all able-bodied persons of voting age are automatically conscripted into our armed forces?
Which rather makes national service and obligation to store and be responsible for munitions in civilian settings in peacetime rather redundant?

Hasbeen,

Ever heard of the Swiss?
In Switzerland every ablebodied man is a soldier, from 18 to 60 years of age. What's more they are trained soldiers.

When was the last time that they were invaded?

King H.

Conscription in time of invasion gives the Nation a vast amount of untrained people who are virtually useless.
The Swiss system gives a trained army on the streets in 30 minutes because the Swiss men are trusted by their Government to keep their fully automatic weapons and their ammunition at home.

The Swiss also have a low crime rate.