It goes without saying we feel for the City and its people, the victims and family's.
Not Australia's Business but would you rebuild in the same spot?
The recent history of the area asks the question.
Are costs a reason to say no, or yes?

But where do you go Belly, the whole place has been known as the "shakey isles" since European colonization. It has to be about building codes. Japan is in the same boat.

Belly, I said the same thing about the wisdom of rebuilding in severely affected cyclone areas.

The insurance companies will have a field day with the new premiums they will charge for anyone planning to rebuild in those areas anyway.
Maybe it will end up being too expensive in the long run?

I may be wrong Suz but I do not remember saying that about cyclones.
I did however defend against the view Brisbane should be moved or never built there in the first place.
NZ building codes are in all probability better than ours.
But many of those building have been around longer than the codes.
I would know no more than the average about this.
But experts said if the event had taken place in Sydney or Melbourne it would have been much worse.
Few points Worth thinking about, the liquidation would bring some of the best code built buildings down.
I understand rebuilding will in all probability be the answer.
Are we holding on too hard to heritage buildings?
If they are unlikely to survive such an even surely we should rebuild them at least?
I ask the question ,but have no answer,may be the 16 billion costs would be ten times that to move and as said that may save nothing.
Christchurch it is said is built on a danger area it will happen again.

i know its a cheap shot potbelly
[pot kettle stuff really]

but its liqufaction

not...'the liquidation would bring some of the best code built buildings down'

but heck i know the union is blind to faction action

but yes the liqufaction is a problem

but im seeing more about the 'christ church'
and the dividing of the firmameant

some of them buildings ..were pretty new looking mate

multi-stories of trajedy
from them high rise ..speculater built buildings

not built up to speck..

but the tower falling down again
and the churches,..even new-castles earth quake..
saw the christ church fall down..but no one noticed it then either

but at least nz has a disaster savings fund [8 billion]
for rebuilding the buildings infastructure better..next time

christs house is divided
and those of the christ still miss the 'signs'

unity
is called for
even nature is hearing the call

Let me be honest one under God, like your self I can not spell very good.
My spell check often puts the wrong word in place, and I run with it, I wanted your word not mine but it took control.
I unlike your self, run my spell check every time.
And learn something every time is picks me up.
Like you I lash out at times, like to think I am a counter puncher never first to hit NEVER a king hit bloke.
I know from your posts life is not always great for you, want nothing to do with under mining you, if you find posting here some benefit ok with me.
But bet you never ever would needlessly insult me twice in the real world.
Now what say you stop the silly child like game you play with my name?
Until now I have, for your sake avoided references YOU posted here to rubbish bin diving, dope smoking, and that inane laugh as you infer we are being blind sided to things only you see.
I hope you get some joy in your life, some balance and understating.
Let me join the group that is not talking to you quietly and civilly mate.

I have during this day heard much more and learned a lot about this tragic event.
Seems New Zealand builds far better than we do.
And also the Wellington suffers earth quakes every bit as bad.
So building else ware seems out.
It is true that Christchurch is built on a cross over,subject to more quakes.
I do not know enough to judge but any new city may be build in safer ares one day, but suffer the same fate.
Lets hope for a miracle,that more live people than expected are found and that plus giving a few dollars is about all we can hope for.

Belly:

Christchurch was built on poor sandy soil and as indicated in the media due to earthquake activity it liquified, that is, the shock squeezed the water to the surface undermining the building foundations. To build in an earthquake zone buildings that will withstand earthquakes up to 7 on the richter-scale would require the foundations to be sunk to solid bedrock which apparently Christchurch doesn't have. The other option is to build low buildings on "raft" structures which literally float on the earth's surface. Both methods are very expensive and the only logically solution is to abandon the central business district and build a new center where bedrock foundations would be close to the surface. That of course requires the type of structural designs practiced in earthquake zones around the world such as Southern California and Japan.

I think the freaky thing is that Christchurch locals before September were just not used to earthquakes. The South Island very rarely shook. Wellington and most of the North Island is and the peeps are well used to them from Wgtn on up. Nothing like watching the ground roll and listening to the amazing sound of a quake coming.

September gave the Ch-Ch locals a big fright but nothing like this latest shallow shake. It was mostly built on a swamp btw and did have some very old and lovely stone heritage buildings. A number of which I spotted now shattered.

Some areas were completely untouched by the quake and did not lose phone, tv, power etc while some got flooded with the stinky water. And we’ve all seen what happened inside the four avenues (town centre).

Newer buildings… and you used to be able to hear and feel them being built would ram foundations down until the solid stuff was found.

Build again, hell yeah. But the word from the early twenties aged crowd is they want out… weird because I thought young people would kind of more… well, just more. Speaking to older locals they seem very upset and we know the body count keeps rising but I haven’t heard mention of wishing to leave their city.

They should use shipping containers as building units. Very rapid construction times, many architectural styles could be reproduced, and the structures would fair far better under the stress and strain of an earthquake. The building cost is also about 2/3 of conventional methods, and that cost would likely fall as builders gained familiarity with the technique.

My suggestion is simple. Build again. Build better. Build with the assumption that what you build will, one day, be knocked down again.

The reality is that if we abandon all areas with a chance of natural disasters, we seriously reduce our options. The North Island of NZ would be a no-go zone. I lived there for three years without a noticeable earthquake (but many memorable earthquake drills at school), then moved to the relatively earthquake-free extreme north of Sydney. I can still remember the far-distant rumble of the Newcastle earthquake, and a couple of dislodged tiles on our roof. Brisbane would be a no-go zone. I lived there for 12 years with only flash flooding. North Queensland would be a no-go zone. I have lived here for six-and-a-bit years and have only recently felt the force of a significant cyclone. The list could go on.

People should be made aware of the threats, and certainly nobody should be forced to rebuild in Christchurch. Mitigation strategies should be put in place, but nobody should be told that they are foolproof. Nobody should say that an event is a "one-off": I assume that something as big and nasty as Yasi will come my way again, and people in Christchurch should assume that something as big and nasty as their earthquake will come again. The Victorian bushfires, the SEQ floods ... disasters happen. Even if we rebuild somewhere safe, or to a higher standard, we must always assume that we are at the mercy of these disasters. The loss of life is a tragedy, and steps must be taken to learn from current losses to minimise future losses, but we must never convince ourselves that we can prevent them altogether.

Lexi I did not know it was built on sand or swamp.
Knew about the liquidation, and have been on ABC NEWS 24 for days.
Experts are saying Christchurch latest buildings are world class in earth quake construction,but admit to a few failures.
Older buildings have been described as poor, concrete blocks said to be held together by what amounts to sand.
After Septembers quake worlds best quality measuring equipment was put in place.
We will in time hear much more about this ones strength.
Christchurch we are told sits on a fault that crosses over under it.
from one side of that Island to the other coast of the other.
Maybe the plates no longer move as in the past?

I’ve been in a number of quakes and have lost count, a drought, several floods, a bush fire and a blizzard and a nine year cicada invasion of epic proportions. Can’t say the thought of moving occurred to me at any point before during or after due to something nature was tossing about. Twice when moving 100 year unpredicted events hit just after I relocated. Typical huh.

But how many cities on earth are parked at the base of volcanoes or on fault lines or over thin ground so that steam holes appear randomly. Los Angeles mud slides look awful and their bush fires cause regular damage and death as well as the area being well known for their tremors.

Humans continue to build and rebuild with fingers crossed. We’re just quirky like that.

Fester I met a dude who lived in a shipping container in Ch-Ch – err it was on a hill though.

Ch-Ch isn’t little, they’ll rebuild and since they didn’t have many buildings over a few stories high I am hoping when they rebuild they keep them even lower as it makes for a prettier city anyway. That church steeple (Catherdral in Ch-Ch Square) fell off a couple of hundred years ago when a previous quake hit and had to be rebuilt… don’t quote me my memory is vague on that one.

Human nature drives us to stay and to rebuild.
For some it is fearless loyalty to an area or city.
Others think it will never happen to me.
And some gamble, not again in my lifetime.
Cheaper land because of such events drive yet another group.
It has been bad,will get worse, looks like 300 plus dead is the final count.
And great to see people from all over the world helping.

Belly:

We lived in Los Angeles for close to ten years and experienced a number of constant earthquakes up to 6.7 on the scale. It wasn't a pleasant environment to live in and with our children at toddler age we decided to return to a safer Australia. People will continue to take risks because of family and their commitment to their homes and business no matter what the future outcome may be. Predictions for the Southern California coast to sink into the ocean are being broadcast frequently - and yet people continue to ignore them. So too with volcanoes, cyclones, floods, people always assume that it won't happen to them.

Very true Lexi I felt the Newcastle earth quake at work 128klm away,never thought of it as an earth quake until later.
We will be talking about rebuilding Christchurch for years to come.
And each new death toll will bring pain.
Hope we are all giving as much as we can.

Belly:

Indeed we are giving as much as we can. Australians always do and that's something we can all be proud of. One of my brothers has flown over there to help. He's part of a team and they'll stay for as long as they're needed. By the way - I know this is off subject but did you see Question Time the other day and the attack on the PM by the leader of the Opposition? He was bordering on hysteria. It was embarrassing. I wonder how long it will take for the Party to realize that the man should be replaced, and soon? He's definitely lost the plot.

My young houseguest returns to Ch-Ch tonight, I tried to talk her out of it and saw no point in going near the city right now but her mum is there alone so off she goes.

I’m still not donating, it wont make me feel I have helped unless I know how the money is handled and if they even need any. I paid many years of house insurance while there and so I guess I already gave to the Earthquake and War Damages Commission?

Did get me wondering about how safe Aussie is, besides large weather events. I know systems in place don't treat its people very nicely or fairly. There is a lot of dangerous critters and everyone gets skin cancer here same as NZ.

So say you are a Cantabrian and you have had enough and want to move and live somewhere safe (physically +). Any suggestions?

Lexi/jewely how do,yes saw it and forever think he and only he is propping up the ALP.
Do not get me wrong ALP is heading up big changes on way.
I think I would do as this girl is jewely, my mum would over come fear, she is dead but no way she would face that alone.
While you may be right, some cash may dribble in to wrong hands, we are not third world and I have more trust than over seas aid.
Kiwis are hurting and by this time next week we will see close to the final death toll.
The pain, Even danger will be around much longer.

Christchurch,first thing every morning I look for the news hoping another life has been saved.
Having seen Newcastle I am afraid this will one day happen here.
I just wounder could we find safer places to rebuild?

worry kills more people than anything else
dont worry...[chch has what half a million people...and maybe 300 toal died]

we dont worry about a road toll like that
or bother about 15,000 people said to die from smoking
or 5000 from drinking or 3000 from the sideaffects of booze

keep it in proportion
300 is nearly nothing

how many unionists ..died on the job last year?

or hero-shema...or the maplalm-ing of japan ..pre the nukes
millions died ..by the bombs of our all-lies..

we are eternal spirits...having a life sentance
once our time is up ..its up

till then
worry dont make anything better

be happy ..wherever we are
thats all we can take with us... when our times is up

we retain our emotional fears hopes dreams
and life experiences

we are an eternal living spirit..
inside our soul-body
..inside our flesh/blood body

who live in houses
only we can make into a home

live close-by those you love
those who help release stress
and we win..where-ever ..we are now

a pain /fear/ ..shared
is a pain halved

a hope dream love shared
is a pleasure shared

home is where the heart is
fel the love

A REALISTIC APPRAISAL OF THE SITUATION IN CHRISTCHURCH
FROM A N.Z. SOURCE
by WhiteKnight,
Friday, February 25, 2011, 13:17

My buddy in N.Z. sends this no BS report is what's really happening there. Contrast this with the stuff posted in the mainstream press.
_
It gets worse by the day!

The body count is climbing, as expected, but it's the survivors that are the real worry. The amount of shock experienced by the victims is beginning to really show now, as we go into day 5 after the disaster. The whole city rests on a pile of wet sand which sinks each time there is anoither tremor.

There are continuing after shocks - one every few minutes, some greater than others - which have reduced morale to a very low ebb. No one is sleeping.

Many have not had washing facilities for the past 5 days and water is really difficult to obtain.

It's not a lack of supply, but the difficulty in reaching it with smashed roads and liquifaction preventing car movment.

Toilets are non- existent and people are having to use their garden - if they have one, or a bucket with lime, if they can find it. How anyone with little children is coping I really don't know.

I suspect they were the first group to leave the city. After their September experience, I suggest no one with a young family would stay any longer than necessary. Just pack valuables into the car and be prepared for a long drive!

The attached photo was taken by a friend who works in Hurinui - 100k's north of Christchurch, the day after the quake. You can see the lines of cars forming at the petrol station. It's in the middle of nowhere, so you can imagine the scale of the exodus.

The privatization of local bodies in the 1990's is really coming home to roost - with a vengance. They have no mechanical or heavy lifting infrastructure anymore.

It's all by contractor

The city's security has been completely compromised
by the greed of a few...we have got lots of police from overseas

What really gets my goat is the BS coming from the parliamentarians. The city is smashed beyong repair -

even the Chamber of Commerce CEO has placed a figure of $20 BILLION on reconstruction,which is simply beyond the capacity of 4 million people to fund.

It must be at least 25% of our current GDP. Couple this with the fact that with every earth movement there is going to be further liquifaction,

and it makes the whole city an uninsurable risk!

But what really concerns me is that the insurers are beginning to discover many of the building consents issued over the past 50 years, should never have been approved. Houses were built on low lying sandy areas that had been beaches in the distant past.

Even a report published in the 1920's clearly stated that Christchurch should never be built on. It was too swampy.

Now the chickens have really come home to roost!

If, as I suspect, the insurers refuse to cover a significant number of dwellings that have been fraudulently sited on unsuitable land, life is going to get really tough for at least 5,000 home owners.

Thousands have already left the city, with whole blocks of houses being abandoned - possessions and all.

People are leaving the city in droves and apparently are intending never to return. Nelson and Blenheim (at the top the of the South Island) have been inundated with refugees. Many others have moved to the North Island.

The big supermarket chains in the city are asking their staff to return to work so that they can supply the remaining residents, but it looks as though most of their staff have left.

I suspect the army will be put into the supermarkets to keep them going. I can imagine the recruiting sergeant asking the new recruit, what trade he would like to enter. 'Shopkeeper' !

The parliamentarians are in grave danger of seriously misleading the public into a false sense of security. They have followed the tried and tested strategy of lying and denying.

But this time, with the evidence firmly at hand, for all to see, anyone that claims the city can and will be rebuilt, is deluding themselves.

sure puts a spin
on building on sure footings

wonder why they chose to stand
on such shakey grounds?

aint govt great?

further update

http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/forum/index.php?id=246888

latest update
http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/forum/index.php?id=246910

some other stuff
http://dailybail.com/home/irelands-prelude-to-revolution-imf-bankster-party-tossed-fro.html

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/not-all-cops-are-union-busting-pigs/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100077625/how-will-america-handle-the-fall-of-its-middle-east-empire/

here the son...'dont know why'
yet can say ...*one reason why not?
http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/02/wal-mart-worker-immolates-self-in-parking-lot.html?obref=obinsite

all this
and no ability to get a micro-phone?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1360339/Scientists-unveil-worlds-smallest-just-1-MILLIMETRE-square.html

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23411

the difference between manmade
and not man made
http://uruknet.com/?p=m75385&hd=&size=1&l=e

hey maybe we can blame it on carbon?
then find a way to tax earth quakes?

yep it global warming...
4 sure...

[ps watch out
for hell freezing over]

Weird ay, I'd have to go look it all up again but I'd blame the Canterbury Association that bought the land, designed everything and moved everyone over from the mother land personally.

Ch-ch people had this "first ships" thing going on and an undercurrent of snobbery that always amazed me.

Lots of gangs in Ch-ch... never saw much of the mongrel mob but plenty of the blood and crypts thing. I would have described Christchurch similar to Adelaide, very pretty, lots of parks but with a huge amount of violence, drugs, boy racers and bored teenagers.

I saw people in state housing were going to be given like 3 weeks free rent, mighty white of whoever I reckon.

Are we forgetting earthquakes don't happen there.. or didn't. In September it was a first for the generations living there.

Oh and I know one Christchurch person that immediately got headhunted by an Aussie corp - nice swoop.

No sheep jokes online since the quake so I'd like to thank everyone for the respite. :P

Now I'm trying to decide on some young people wanting out, encourage them coming here or not - don't they all have to be there to rebuild? Is here better for a young family?

there will be jobs in the rebuilding
and it will get rebuilt
it seems a pretty area

most of the frightend people
and those who can ..or have reason to move on..have moved on

if thwere are some who want to move out
let that depend on what their friends and familie is doing
these things are the real treasures of life ,mankind will allways be fighting nature...but nurture is a thing we need to hangon to

a young family should take this time to trade-up their home
move to the better districts...[where services still work..where there wasnt any mud or falling rocks etc

real-estate values will be at rock bottum now
it generally takes 5 to 10 years and things will be back to normal

now is the time to get that vieuw ..or better location..bigger house
they allways hoped to get.. but couldnt get, ..then

when things hit rock bottum
that allways [ok usualy]..
means things can only get better

garage sales will have many bargins
garage tips will have many treasurs

that being said..

there is at least one more big0-one ..on the way
i expect 2012 to be a time
of the earth moving ..for many

[its long been predicted
the poles will shift 25 dec]

not just in nz

some predictions expect the middle
to drop out of the outback..

[and not just where they are harvesting the coal seam gas and releasing all that greenhouse methane gas]

anyhow...be where the heart is
only there ..will we find peace