So now the arguing starts,...."who is going to pay for the Nation`s disasters?"

I would go along with Julia Gillard`s Levy providing it is guaranteed to be a one-off hit only, in fact I would suggest that the cut-off point should be reduced to an annual amount of $30,000, ...after all that means a levy of (according to Julia) $1 per week out of an income of $576 per week, and let`s face it, that is a much preferred option to increasing the GST which will surely hurt many at a time when we can least afford it.

At this time I would strongly suggest that a temporary cut to all overseas recipients of Foreign Aid (charity does begin at home) until this nation gets back on its feet again, which is going to take a considerable time and massive outlay to achieve.
Regardless of what some self-opinionated politicians may think, the overall good of this country should come before all else!

These sort of national disasters have occurred many times before and no doubt will occur again, but never before has there been so much capital from the Taxpayer funded coffers been given away both overseas and at home.

This whole issue needs to be well thought out and plans put in place to achieve the best results for all, but we must consider the future of the many who are already up to their ears in debt and simply cannot afford (after the Levy) any further impost or assault upon their meagre incomes, the alternative which will be a AFC ( Australian Financial Crisis) with many constituents losing their homes etc as they are no longer able to meet their financial commitments!

There meager incomes are in the thousands, we are talking about 1%of income. Lets not go overboard with hardship comments.
The figures will be out today about budget cuts, no matter where the money comes from it will cause unemployment for someone, somewhere

A good deal has been said in the two existing threads crackup.

I agree with belly here. We are covering old ground.

I must say though, as a Queensland, I am liver-ed to think our incompetent governments have chosen to either 'under insure, or not insure' our public assets and, if I was not a Q-lander I would be equally liver-ed as the proposed Levy money would go well in the other states.

But I guess when a large majority of our taxes are continually 'pissed away', something has to give. QLD rail is a prime example. I would assume it was also uninsured when publicly owned.

I still think a transaction tax, perhaps on the banks only would be a good thing. After all, they do make their profits from our money. Perhaps it's fair that they pay for the privilege.

yes bellies your right..[again]
so lets skin these rabbits ..a different way this time

was this disaster preventable?
was it natural
or was it man made

see we need to pay extra to do the whole thing right[this time]
ie tie roads to roadbases..so the whole road dont float away ior peel off in huge slabs and try to float away to peel island

why should we pay extra now
to rebuild railways given away to capitalists

why shoulsd we need to raise MORE FUNds
[when the premier hasnt spent a penny from HER disaster fund yet]...

i note there was briefly a matter
of another previous disaster fund..
where the premie claimed the intrest earned *on the funds

yes the funds EVENTUALLY got spent..
but not till there was a nice bit of intrest there to keep
by house rukles..[apparently]

its with this intrest issue
im gaining insight into these funding scemes

why raise a penny..extra..
till they spend some of the millions they ALLREADY GOT?

another issue that has surfaced
is who should dole out the lucre?
TO WHOM

seems a nat is claiming today
the councils should be doing it direct
[something about a large percentage being scammed [creamed off the top]..heard it was betwen 20 percent to 40 percent..that goes to admin fees ..an cream

so yeah the issue
has been done to death

but what about the other aspects..the dumbed down
[soldout media].isnt covering..

like how the damm dam ..was too full*..

how the damm dam
was only meant to capture the flood waters..

not release them
[making man-made disasters]..

there has arrisen in other topic

how wolf-dine was to hold the water...but wasnt built..

labour decided not to build
the rest of the FLOOD PREVENTION sceme

and this other damm
that was HOARDing the waters to sell*...
was thus ..too full ..to restrain the flood waters..

but lab wolf cubs ..got rid of the other damm..
wolf-dine dam..and thus increased the risk..

and thus we bore the full costs of its ill fruits

see insurance people or others ..could sue
could put a hold on the premie slushy cash..

even that stashed in the premiers slushy fund..
even now gaining intrest ..that may never actually get spent

lets face it having the marfia
do the hospital payroll ..backfired big time

so much news ...simply dont reach the people

lets face it
the state has few assets left
and has been so busy ..it cant even cover the intrest
on what its allready spent..[over 65 billion]..setrving its mates

spent on its mates scemes..
and building the right things the wrong way
or giving away states assets

...lets not get into q-build pricing structures..

but let ...what we collectivly owe ..speak for itself..
as ol barnaby was shutup ..from revealing it..fully..

twice that of california..
who is going to go bust soon ...too
we arnt going to go bust?

maybe only cause we been coping the inreased costs of services.. paying intrest only.. that has prevented the state defaulting...

so far

but were running out of stuff to sell
to mates for pennies on the dollar

and the cost of power and water are insane ..not to mention revenue raising issues like speed cameras and ever increasing costs of fines and rego licences permits etc

but even that has come back to bite us
we tax and fee paying ...over taxed payers
paying ...for everything..

who end up paying for it all

who are over this two party scam
show us where the money went..
before we pay another penny

reveal where the other dollars were spent
and who built the wrong thing in the wrong places
by methods that cant even handle a heavey rain fall

ie who dont tie roads
to road bases even in flood planes

ie do the wrong things for the right price
a poor job at mates rates

qld poor governance..
its grating on us mate

What concerns me is that there's always an excuse to bleat shortage of fundds but again as per usual, they're already setting up inquiries. As per usual these inquiries will cost a small fortune & achieve nothing. Why an inquiry ? Just rough up the useless bureaucrats & replace them. A lot cheaper than inquiries. Put private enterprise in charge of flood control & there won't be so much flood damage in future. Keep bureaucracy away from anything to do with practicality & reality & most problems will be a thing of the past.

Indi, a good analogy of governments (local and state) is your local bowls club.

The successful clubs have paid managers and the committee simply control the games and run the cook raffles.

It is when the committee thinks they can run the business as well, that most fail and go into receivership.

Like bureaucrats, many committees are made up of failed business people, or others that just didn't quite make it.

The government has got it well covered. The reconstruction will be covered by the insurance companies, the already well publicised stated government cost cuts, the 1 year levy that most people won't pay, and if you earn $50,000 you pay $1 a week for a mere 52 weeks, and the Qld. government's disaster relief fund.

Don't forget the Libs have a long history of introducing levies for funding purposes, so they have no moral high ground to stand on regarding the levy issue.

No matter what the federal government did, or didn't do, some people would whinge about it and some people would try to use the disasters for political gain. Some people are like that. If the current government was in opposition they would do exactly the same whinging and politicing that the Libs are currently doing on the issue.

Politics stink.

Frankly i am very angry about the proposed flood levy.

The levy is for fixing up government assetts, that is clear. If the government had not blown the available funds on stupid schemes, like home insulation, school halls and simply giving money away, they would have the money without requiring us to fund their financial mismanagement.

Nearly half of the houses that were flooded, in Brisbane, were built after the 1974 floods, and we should be asking how come?

What about making the councilors of Brisbane City Council pay? They allowed the development and house construction in flood prone areas.

How could they allow such stupidity? Was there corruption? The developers made a mint out of the sale of building blocks and it has been alleged that tthe Council hid a report that the houses would flood.

Far too many get away without being responsible for their actions.

Now the taxpayer is again to pay for government incompedence!

I'm not against a levy at all. I'm against much of the levy going to consultants & bureaucrats who's inaction & incompetence contributed to damage in the first place.

Individual, how do you expect the levy, the Qld. disaster relief fund, and the government cost cuts to be administered?

Should the money just administer itself, and grow little money legs and walk all by itself to the disaster victims?

Be realistic, in any disaster funding there must be administration costs. The money can't do it all by itself.

Huge amounts of contractors who have made a mozza from the school sheds probably can't believe you can win the lottery twice in two years.

So what do we do runner? Just put disaster relief and community rebuilding aside, and let people cope by themselves? The Libs are already delaying the levy with an "enquiry" (they're putting political point scoring ahead of genuine disaster relief, in other words politics takes precedence over disaster victims). So maybe they can force an enquiry on your belief that rorts are inevitable. If the enquiry decides no rorts are likely maybe we could have an enquiry on the enquiry.

Isn`t it amazing how the mention of cutting back
on Foreign Aid makes everyone duck for cover!

This is a particularly sensative subject for all
thinking Australians, when at this time, we are
running so drastically short of "spare" money,
yet we can still find the money to build new
schools and improve the educational standards
of Indonesians students, (not that
our schools and students don`t need it?) but when
these recipients of our Foreign Aid are teaching
their pupils that Australia (South Irian Jaya)
really belongs to them, then it is time to draw
the line!

We have certain politicians, who, lets not lose
sight of the fact, are supposedly employees of
the people, are quite proudly it seems, selling
us out to the grandiose planners of the Globalist
New World Order, who are busy warming their bums
on the plush seats buried in the depths of the
UN Building.

Every time the UN barks the dogs start whining
for more money, and as a result we are about to be
graced with a visitation from a UN Delegation who
are coming to apply pressure to the Government
on a couple of issues regarding the allegedly
inhumane way in which we are treating the "poor"
boat-people ( aka Asylum Seekers,Financial and
Political Opportunists)

Crackcup, your belief that we are "running drastically short of spare money" and therefore should not spend money on overseas countries is utterly inaccurate.

Australia has more than enough funds to finance the disaster relief and rebuilding. The government has allocated 3.8 billion dollars in spending cuts to the disater relief, and the levy will contribute a further 1.8 billion dollars. Insurance companies will meet their insurance obligations, and already, every day, hundreds of claims are being paid. The Qld. disaster relief appeal is also growing by the millions with each passing day.

So from a financial perspective, Australia is coping magnificently with the disaster relief.

The rebuilding will give Aussies employment, provide much work for businesses and the economy will be booming by the year's end.

I'm sorry to spoil your day with a bit of accuracy crackcup.

courageous,
if you read my post again you'll find that I didn't say the monies don't need administering. I said don't let the same people get their hands on this again.

Runner The school halls or sheds as you say. I don,t know what you got where you live, but here the schools got what they needed.
Basket ball, badminton, and indoor tennis stadiums, were popular choices.

I failed to say that we don't need yet more bureaucrats wasting good donations. There are people already in various departments who are already budgeted foe. Use them & make them accountable. The slightest discrepancy & they're out. No jetting around the country. No if's n'buts.

Courageous: You did NOT spoil my day at all, rather

you should check YOUR facts before you start criticizing!

For your information as at 02 May 2010 Australia`s

National Debt was nudging 1 Trillion Dollars and we were

projected to be paying 48 Billion Dollars in Interest

over the following 4 years,.... ( with all the added

disaster costing, it will now be way over that figure ).

If you honestly believe that we have plenty of money

to throw around, all I can say is that I am very pleased

that you are NOT my Financial Adviser or the Federal

Treasurer

You're wrong crackup. Because a country is in deficit does NOT mean that the country doesn't have funds for disaster relief. Maybe you should look into the machinations of how an economy actually operates.

Australia has plenty of funds available as shown by the cost cuts, the Premier's disaster relief fund, the disaster levy, the insurance industry and also to a lesser extent by direct personal contributions made by quite a large number of people directly to disaster victims via charities. Australia is coping very well with the disaster aftermath, the costs are covered and the financial experts agree that Australia will be back in surplus in several years time.

I'm sorry to spoil your day yet again with the facts: Facts, devoid of political and personal slant.

Maybe you should look into the machinations of how an economy actually operates. courageous,
It is mere artificial complexity hence the constant economic difficulties. Let real intelligence handle real money & you'll see what money can do. A handful of half-baked idealistic academics can never make economists. Or do call the present lot competent economists ? If you do you need more help than I do & I'm in bad shape.
Just because people run things the way they do doesn't make it good. I use poverty all around as a gauge. What do the economists use as a datum ? Starvation ?

Tell us individual, seeing you know exactly what's wrong with the economy and precisely what to do to fix it ........ ummmmm how come you're dispensing your gifted knowledge base via anonymity on an obscure internet website with a handful of contributors? Hmm, I would have thought a person who has all the answers and all the necessary insight would have aimed higher than this.

Of couse, you're not just one of the millions of amateur armchair "experts" who "think" they have the answers to how everyone else should live and manage finances, or are you? No, of course you're not, you really do know all the answers don't you individual. That's wonderful.

courageous,
Wikipedia is a good place to start looking. First word "integrity". Instant headache ? No like ?
Are you saying that those who cost us billions in wastage or cause immeasurable misery are in fact economic experts ? Are you saying that offshore manufacturing is a sustainable economic strategy ? Are you saying that all our intellectual export is good because it's leaving our shores ? Many people are competent enough to have the answers to many of our problems. Their only problem is the dumb$hit greedy who prefer a whole country going to the dogs rather than sacrifice anything. You see, to make a lot of money you don't actually have to be very intelligent, you just have to be selfish & shamelessly exploit others. Are you worth what you're getting paid ? Do you think the CEO's of our industries are really worth the money they take away from those who need ? Our economy is controlled not by need but by greed. There is no skill in being a thief who is surrounded & protected by many other thieves.

Nice set of "strawman" arguments there individual.

For those who don't know what a strawman argument is, it's when someone implies that another person believes something that he did not actually say. Then the opposite argument is put, in order to take the high moral ground. Nice try individual. Please keep trying, I can use the entertainment.

As I said, 3.8 billion is available through prudent cost cutting (the Libs want "more" cost cutting), 1.8 billion is available through the disaster levy (the Libs have a history of setting levies as well). The Qld. disaster relief appeal will raise a huge amount of money. Billions of dollars will be paid out by insurers. Yes, without doubt, Australia is coping very well with the aftermath of the disasters. Reconstruction is already being planned and the necessary procedures, both organisational and financial, are being put in place. Australia should be proud with the way our country has coped; indeed "most" of us share that pride.

courageous,
those billions that will be paid out by insures, can we bring that issue up again in 12 months when people will still be waiting ? Either you are in insurance or you haven't had a genuine claim denied. I have & many flood victims will too. As I said, in 12 months eh ?
Your "most of us pride" bubble will burst, trust me. I'll ask you about that pride too in 12 months.

Individual, I see you have difficulty understanding that Australia is well equipped to cope with reconstruction after such a series of incredible disasters. So be it.

couregeous,
I have every confidence that Australia will recover, that's not my query. My query is about way too many bureaucrats fleecing funds AGAIN as per Aust Standard permissible under Labor.

runner, here here. These incompetent fools couldn't run a bingo game, they have proven this time and time again.

courageous,Please show us some examples of how labor can be trusted to administer the fund and we may well change our minds, cautiously though I might add. You and all your other labor supporters must also be wary about this.

Now you say their is enough money. Well, we had enough money, and some little more than three years ago. Where did that go and what did the waste achieve, apart from quite a few jobs fixing the 'stuff ups'.

About the only positive to come out of this is that the relief fund is sitting there collecting interest while to jury decides whether or not to trust labor, once again!

It's a big ask!

Isn't it marvellous how the debate about the

issue of Foreign Aid has once again been

side-tracked by "Courageous" and his deprecatory

meanderings?

I am starting to wonder if in actual fact this

person using the pseudonym "Courageous" is actually

the Federal Treasurer or someone similar, who, if

he believes that "all will be well", and the National

Debt will be squared within the next couple of years,

obviously he himself believes in the "Tooth Fairy" and

other giants of his mythological world!

Crackcup,
the government will be getting a herd of pink elephants with wings to carry tonnes of cash from somewhere.

Unfortunately, some people (a minority of Aussies) like to use the unfortunate circumstances of fellow Australians as a vehicle for attempted political point scoring. This is what a handful of people here are doing, this is what the Libs are doing and this what Labor would be doing if the Libs were in government right now.

Three people here, rehctub, runner and individual, seem unable to understand that Australia is well set up financially to cope with the aftermath of the recent disasters. They are more interested on this forum in trying to discredit the government, instead of showing respect and understanding towards the victims of the disasters. If the Libs were in government now I bet these 3 characters would be **SILENT** regarding the government's handling of the situation, and that the handful of Labor supporters on this site would be the ones whining.

People like rehctub, runner and individual are a minority. Most Aussies are not using the recent disasters as a vehicle for attempted political point scoring. No sireee, they are getting on with the practical job of recovery.

It's incredible the constant degrading of our govt; These people had their chance to vote, but that is not enough for them. They continually condemn any move at all from the incumbent govt; They are only interested in two word Tony, who will never see an election in his favor. Hipocritical, biased, and ill informed persons. The Liberals are not showing a scrap of human decency, all they can come up with ways of sending the country backward.

a597,
Again you are the one who doesn't click. I did not say that the Liberals are perfect. I can only go by past performance & so far as economic management goes, the Coalition is ahead.
Why do you lot alway say we're Left bashers. We're not. We'd bash the Libs just as much if they were performing as poorly as Labor. The real problem here is that it is the fact that the Public Service is literally 98 % left-wing hence the difficulty in Labor to perform. The Coalition deals with the Public Service a little better because they know that whatever they propose, the Public Service will oppose it in the faint hope to make Labor look better. It hasn't worked & only cost many of us a career & money. I'll refrain from pointing at Labor when they compensate me for what they cost so many present & future decent Australians.

Oh, I don't know, a597 - it seems the opposition pride themselves on their "gutsy" fictional cuts.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/11/3136548.htm

courageous. As for disarster management, that started with a huge thing called 'INSURANCE'!

Now, if anyone chose a cheaper insurance company, one that appeared to offer the 'same cover' for 'less money', then it's 'buyer beware!

So, anyone in this position must now sit back and wait to see what assistance can be provided.

Now, just spare a thought for those who were fully insured.

They, being 'pro active' are now on their own as nobody cares about them. Why?

Now this mentality goes all the way through society. Look after those who don't look after themselves. Wefare is a prime example.

Meanwhile, those 'pro active' ones, often went without simply because they didn't have the money left over to spend once they did the sensible thing and made sure their ducks were in a row.

I'm out of time but would like to respond more.

Continued
Now I am filthy with many decisions made by both sides of government, things like the sale of Testra, the introduction of the Baby bonus and the fighting of someone Else's 'unwinnable war' to name just a few, however, I am more filthy about the careless way that the labor governments have time and time again wasted our taxes, so much so that we now have to run some type of 'chook raffle' just so we can pay the fix up bills.

Sure, we may be in pretty good shape, but try explaining that to a self funded retiree, who after slogging their guts out for decades, are told, sorry, but you are to well off to qualify for assistance.

a597>>It's incredible the constant degrading of our govt; These people had their chance to vote

Believe me, I voted, but it is hard to win when the beaten go to any length to retain office.

>>all they can come up with ways of sending the country backward.

I'm sorry, but the labor government has that trophy well and truly in their grasp. But hey, they have been given enough rope, I'm just waiting for them to hang themselves.

BYW, I wonder how many of our own who have lost loved ones recently were offered a free ticket to the funerals.

Yet another doozy. But hey, it's not as if they are wasting their money, is it!

the process of dumbing down the people
[as a deliberated policy]..is paying off

people now have a short attention span
they dont read contracts [deliberatly written in long winded legal eaze] they have been re-engeneered to the 30 second soundbite..

[usually presented by a screaming nutter raving loud enough to wake us temporally up ..from our tv induced hypnotic slumber..to alert us its time to consume

before sending us back into the fight
or rather ..mainly flight/fear ..*reflex
that delivers a docile population
that spends when its told to spend

[its funny how we only see a disaster
after the media repeatedly broadcasts it]

we dont read contracts
and now its bearing its fruits

if insurance had any value it would pay out first
then sue the greedy water mob who got too greedy
subverted the damm dam to be overfull..

then agrivating a minor flood ..into a huge disaster
..by releasing that water gold ..it sought to hoard..or sell off for the big bucks payoff ..in the new water costs ..big money ..parra-dim-e

to wit..the half wits could sue
those who really agrivated the flood
not just in queeny land.. but in the snowey lands as well

but let them who would be dumbed down
and be decieved
be decieved

how has the ignorance trance medium
served you the con-sumer

Courageous,a597:
Why don`t we just cut through all this diversionary crap

of petty attempts at point-scoring, and tackle the original

issues that I posted in this Thread,"how we are going to

pay for these disasters" and "what are we going to do about

reducing Foreign Aid?"....All that you have been able to

contribute to this discussion is the typical hairy fairy

rhetoric of "we have plenty of money to play with!" which

I have already pointed out is total bovine excreta!

We have no other option at this time than to write another

cheque on an already overdrawn account, ( which is going

to add to the total Deficit!). We need to look at ways

now to reduce our indebtedness by considering cuts to

Foreign Aid and many other questionable "gifting".....

after all if you or I were overdrawn at the bank,( and

looked like losing our home ) we would be totally insane

to give a large donation to a blind man on the street!

Charity begins at home,...always has and always will!

I’m just going to drag this thread back out because I’m kinda surprised to hear about the teams on their way to Christchurch.

I actually thought Aussie had its own problems and rather larger ones on the natural disaster list right now.

Why are they going there?

Is it something that must be seen to be being done for diplo reasons?

America also has sent help.
Those going are experts in a Field not related to floods
And for most of us ANZAC means a great deal Kiwis would be here just as fast and in fact both country's have sent personnel all over the world.
I very much doubt any need to prove our country's mutual pain at this tragic event exists.
I will give to this appeal too equally as I did to our own.

I didn't donate to either. I stopped donating to anything since developing a deep distrust of any charity.

But I do have a Christchurch guest in my home so will consider that doing my bit for now.

And if I can't soon discover who profits from harvesting body parts here I will also change my mind about being an organ donor. I saw something about 150k being made per body - organ donations might be classified non profit but they charge big time to actually chop bodies up.

I still don't get the disaster stuff. There are Aussies in NZ helping and Kiwi's in QLD - wouldn't it be cheaper to keep them at home to help?

Sorry jewely you seem a bit different than the person I once knew.
wish you wealth and health happiness and contentment.