With the effects of Cyclone Yasi and the nationwide
floods still coming to light, this could be an opportune
time to carefully examine our national road-building
methods and consider how we can really get full value for
our money.

The regular occurring costs of repairs and maintenance on
the nation`s roads is reaching staggering proportions, due
in the main to the very POOR standard of road construction
initially.

It is time to plan ahead and consider the most efficient
way to utilize the nation`s funding to acheive reliable,
sound, long-lasting construction whilst giving the best
possible return for this expenditure, which itself will
be somewhat astronamical in the long term.

At the present time, our major road construction work in
Queensland is carried by private contractors. Like all
private enterprise, net profit is the governing factor,
thus a project costing the taxpayers millions of dollars,
but a very poor result in terms of longevity, is the norm
for today`s construction methodology!

It is now time to construct roads and highways with REAL
and SOUND foundations, preferably concrete base with a
much better topping of rubberized bitumen with a realistic
surface thickness, that itself will not corrugate in the
heat of our Summer, whenever a heavy vehicle travels over it.

The cost of a GOOD job will be astronomical initially, but
the cost in savings of maintenance in the long term will
justify the outlay, and should provide a reliable national
link across the nation.

An excellent thread Crackup and one that many people over the past couple of weeks would be pondering.

I am still wondering if my favourite transport interest for our future [the VFT] will ever see the light of day before I depart Crackup.

A Very Fast Train built on elevated land with Lines made of the highest grade metal to withstand most weather events, assisting and saving lives at the commencement of floods, fires and transporting essential groceries, medical personnel, SES and defence personnel into cities and towns after disasters, a mode of transport that I have plugged for 12 years that government state [and Economists view] as a taxpayer waste of funds.

Taxpayers apparently prefer air and vehicle travel in comparison to a VFT that could save lives, assist lives in crises, boost our tourism, create more jobs and stimulate our economy in other ways.

The days have gone for reliance upon road travel and air alone, particularly during natural disasters and holiday periods.

Getting a VFT funded, built, up and running would see many positives for our country and should have been funded and built ten years ago when our population skyrocketed and prior to these El Nina symptoms and effects displayed.

Sadly I cannot see how our Economy will now be able to fund any major infrastructure until we innovate and export a great deal over the next three years.

Correction Crackup, read far too much literature on fiery volatile "La Nina" mixing Nina up with her more placid dry boyfriend, "El Nino" ..........now they have joined together for a song and dance in VIC!

Gentle men you have landed on my veranda.
Holding a discussion about subject dear to my heart.
My first road job was as a not yet 16 year old posing as 18.
Many jobs followed living in tin shed ,long before dongas, then 22 years with what started as main roads Bord turned to DMR then RTA, in the lost style of the public service and NSW and its sleeping master it has changed yet again.
Consider these truths.
Our country has less tax payers than some single America city's.
We have a truly great deal more dirt roads, and massive lengths of main roads.
So my time in RTA opened yet another door, from building the road driving the plant I was taken in to the inner sanctum, learned the other side.
I have built box culverts that had been approved twenty years before.
Here are the facts ,once a road building team could take material from roadside hills, manufacturing rest areas as a by product.
Consider this,do we build ten ks off great road or 100 klm of Fair road?
We see if we look America roads fall apart in flood we see if we look poor quality country and highway roads not just the great ones.
continued.

Actually gentlemen we do well we build good roads what we can afford to, consider this,if we wanted American roads, roads that still fail what would it cost.
How would we find the money,more than our gross national income for decades build your roads and they would still not always stand up to nature.
My RTA fails most, and always in not explaining its mission, not telling of its plans and costs.
And why we have not got fly overs at every side road,we can not afford it.
NSW saw an NRMA survey,it lambasted the Pacific highway as our worst road,yet it death toll has plummeted after so much brand new top quality roads.
Just twenty years ago, this 50kil section saw 23 deaths a year 3 that took 4 lives in one week.
It left horrible dreams forever in my teams minds, but we saw most smash retrievers go broke after.
Understand please a road worker has Monday morning experts on his/her back 24/7 they now are contractors but the roads are ok.

We are in a bind. Bitumen, which I understand is the last thing out
of the refinery, will become increasingly expensive.
We-are-unique will I am afraid go to his maker disappointed.
The VFT is a pipe dream. We just cannot afford it.
It requires dead straight and level track so a whole new permway is
needed. The present track was laid using horses and scoops so they
went around hills instead of through them as is done today with earth
moving machines.
We need to spend the money that we have on refurbishing the railways
and reopenning many of the closed lines.

Getting back to roads, I see that in the US they are turning bitumen
roads back to gravel because they cannot afford the maintenance.
The states are running very short of money with the petrol tax income
falling with less fuel being consumed, plus other income also falling.

Might that be a vision of the future ?

Bazz, it's not just in the US that bitumen roads are being returned to gravel.

In 2002 I was surprised to run into a gravel road, just out of Woodenbong. 74 kilometers of previously bitumen road from there to Tenterfield had been ripped up, as the local authority could not afford to maintain the bitumen road, as it aged.

Hasbeen; Thanks, I was not aware that we were already on that road,
Oh dear, sorry about that !
It seems to me that to plan for future transport we will need to rely
more on electrified railways. We can reopen some of the branch lines
that were closed, and decide if it is better to electrify them or
allocate what diesel is available to them.
It will also in some cases restore the rail shipment of wheat.

Certainly, the financing of multilane highways should stop immediately.
By the time they are finished we will not need them.
For a fraction of the cost of such highways all interstate freight
could be taken off road and moved by rail. Trucks can then be used
for local delivery, just as happens with sea freight.
If diesel increases in price as expected then it will happen by default.
A planned change over would be preferable.

Having worked for so long on the roads I can confirm some tar roads are being returned to gravel.
Some times a lack of understanding is seeing very bad rural roads not improved because of false economy's.
Some roads could be better built, but at what costs.
Road building is for me a thing I would return to at the drop of a hat, if I had control.
If gravel could be won from road side hills, and if enough was available to restore the cross fall, then if the sealing was done in the right grades of blue metal they last.
Cost for a road that last twice as long as a badly built one are surely half.
New highway is concrete with a 50 year life span, cheap in the full life span.
But failing country roads, damaged as much by movement under the road as water on top needs understanding.
Cross fall, get the water of,drains, take it away,and not the near rice being used in NSW to stop road noise but real gutsy metal 20mm at least, reseal on a planned basis before too much wear and we are home free.
Other options than tar are coming to hold our roads together.
One day we may calculate costs by lifespan not building costs.

Totally in agreement Baz.

I hope some politicians are reading your suggestions.

In conjunction with existing highways and roads using the high quality thick blue metal Belly outlined Baz.

I have no doubts,we will find other fuels, civilization demands it.
We will continue to build multi lane roads, we want faster travel.
Yes we know about congestion but what are CURRENT costs to build more public transport,how do we park at the terminals.
How can a population of our numbers fund better than we have.
I do think, truly,if we ran out of oil this very day we would be running again on another fuel in 12 months much damaged but it would happen.
We will not however run out over night,just maybe the loss suffered by the oil industry if we switched now is the only reason we are not trying hard enough.
And just as other thing should roads together we will continue to seal roads with metal held in place as it is now.
However the nature of gravels available quantity's are continuing factors you can not put a hard top on a sponge cake and call it a road.
One day, some one is going to get very rich Germany and America already have great road making gear.
One day even better will find its way here and a focus on building and costing on life span will see better long lasting roads but at a price.
Rail? trucks have an advantage, load at source deliver to user, rail demands loading and unloading at a cost, mixture is the way.

Belly said;
>I have no doubts,we will find other fuels, civilization demands it.

I am afraid that the business as usual alternative fuel you are
expecting to see is the magic silver bullet for which politicians seem
to be waiting.
The people in the know seem to be saying that there is nothing in sight
or ever likely to be that has the energy density and the volume
capacity of oil.

Sure Belly we will have various types of bio fuels, but the volume
needed is beyond the possible without starving the world population.
From my reading the problem is a fundamental one of chemistry.
The two bugbears are energy density and EREOI.
Even if we could overcome these two problems there remains the problem
of cost. Could we afford the alternative ?
Would an electrified railway be so much cheaper than any alternative
fuel that it would be no contest ?

Your point about load on, off on and off was solved many years ago.
Roll on/off and automatic container loading/unloading has been
installed in a number of countries. There was a doco on TV recently
about such a system. Was it QR ? I can't remember.
Anyway that argument has long been not valid.
The trucks pulled alongside and the container slid sideways onto the
rail flatcar. I see them coming through my local station at 100km/hr
60 to 80 flat cars with two 40 ft containers on each.
West of Parkes they are stacked two high as well I believe.
It is hard to see trucks keeping up with that once it is all set up
and electrified with double track between capital cities.

Bazz Gday, well aware of your views on this subject but do not agree.
Peak oil is not yet but coming.
I think arjay would be pleased if my thoughts here have an airing.
We you and I are not in control and for sure not as informed as we should be.
Internationally,in my view a foot is on the heads of new fuels.
We see new fuels too slow too expensive too little.
And I truly think it is because interests higher than ours are in control.
Think of the trillions involved in oil, trillions again in service stations.
IF you lead this country,and knew oil was not going to be around in ten years, would you produce ethanol? no not from food grains but other vegetation .
We will not grind to a stop, not return to the caves the human brain will save us.
Think about the last 100 years see how far we have come.
In fact my passion for road construction/repair leaves me sorry I will not see how far it progresses in the next two decades, one maybe two not much chance

Sorry but mate have a look at road transport as it is, many loads are to be dropped at multiple sites, just one load.
How can a train deliver to a lane way or factory without a rail head?
No alternative exists for some, not all road transport.

Belly;

Peak crude oil occurred in 2005.
Even the optimistic International Energy Authority now says peak crude
oil occurred in 2006.

Peak Crude oil plus all liquids occurred in 2008.

Sooner or later the long distance trucks will go.
In the US the percentage of freight on trucks is declining and the
percentage on rail is increasing.
As things develop more production will be local anyway.

Thats the way it is going and the problems you mention will be
overcome with local deliveries. All this was done before by rail and
it was only cheap fuel that changed everything.
It will be expensive fuel and/or rationing that will change it back.