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The Forum > General Discussion > If only our cars could run on milk

If only our cars could run on milk

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So, the big two retailers are once again playing games.

They have discounted milk, yet increased petrol, even with our dollar at parity to the US.

Let's hope our trusted ACCC have the balls to deal with this once and for all.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 6:53:35 AM
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Running on milk...if only. :) Although by comparison when you think of the work and costs involved in oil drilling milk looks fairly expensive.

According to news reports the big TWO are wearing the cost of the price reduction in the interim so farmers are not impacted. However, that can't last. If other retailers go the same way, then the long term impacts would no doubt affect farmers.

Nick Xenophon has a different take on it, worth considering although I don't believe the Australian consumer would go for long life milk over fresher product.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/nick-xenophon-sees-agenda-in-milk-price-cutting/story-e6frg6nf-1225997698482

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/farmers-sour-over-milk-price-cuts-by-supermarket-giants-coles-and-woolworths/story-e6frg6nf-1225994919154
Posted by pelican, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 9:22:14 AM
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You'd actually be surprised at how many substances a car actually CAN run on perfectly well (alcohol for one, and most forms of plant-oil); which is all the more amazing of how we still let petrol companies demand $1.30+/L.
I suppose the downside is that we get charged gigantic prices for all our other commodities (compared to the US), so finding a good discount is harder than it seems.
Posted by King Hazza, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 9:25:35 AM
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Do butcher shops do that rechtub? put prices up and down at will.
We would last about ten days on milk.
Yes not good but big picture please do we really want to intervene in private enterprise.
Tell businesses what price to charge?
Are you aware of the big increases in oil prices last few weeks, over night?
King Hazza has the answer we can run our cars on other fuels and will do, once oil company's hold on politicians is stopped.
Did you mate complain at Christmas when the discount doubled?
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 1:20:07 PM
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To be fair Belly, the amount we're paying for oil it's hard NOT to complain;

Perhaps, another possible reason many single out oil prices is that we consume oil in more the same way (or reason) we consume electricity, water and gas (as a form of maintenance service than a commercial product)?

Either way, something will start to budge- either our markets will open up to alternative fuels (possibly electric cars, so long as our government can be bothered setting up recharge stations)- or it will become moot if our governments instead try to encourage (or force) more people to use public transport.
Posted by King Hazza, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 10:32:47 PM
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Rehctub:>> Let's hope our trusted ACCC have the balls to deal with this once and for all.<<

This is part of the finding on the Westpac/ St George merger.

"The ACCC reached the conclusion that, while St George Bank is a relatively innovative and dynamic competitor with a strong focus on customer service, other competitors to the merged entity which remain in the market will continue to play a similar role."

What a load of crap "other competitors remain".
Posted by sonofgloin, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 6:06:17 PM
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King Hazza,:>> You'd actually be surprised at how many substances a car actually CAN run on perfectly well (alcohol for one, and most forms of plant-oil);<<

God don't wish that upon us Hazza, the oil companies will buy up all the Canola farms and what would we do for margarine.
Posted by sonofgloin, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 6:12:02 PM
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The idea is quite simple really, Rehctub. If people rush to Coles to
buy their cheap milk, they might also buy their hormone free beef
there. That has to be a good thing :)

Sonofgloin, there is plenty of competition in the banking market.
4 major banks, regional banks, credit unions, take your pick.

The big 4 dominate the market, as people prefer to place their
deposits in the safest banks. The big 4 have the highest ratings,
compared to smaller banks like Bendigo. That also means that the
big 4 would pay a bit less for money borrowed overseas. If the
big 4 were struggling financially, the first thing that would happen,
would be, their cost of borrowing would rise, you the consumer would
pay more.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 9:00:04 PM
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The problem exists through changes into our trade and employment practices
and legal practices acts that have basically removed any ethical barriers on profits.

It is a simple process of which the product is, "that it is the market that should determine, that the rich should get richer, and the poor get poorer".

The question is not whether or not we should complain , it is
"why" does the petrol price go up and down by up to 16 cents a day,
in perfect unison throughout competing outlets, Australia wide?".

Answer. "Because it can". And because they are not actually competing,
nor are the banks, the insurance companies, the supermarkets, the large
retail chains etc and so on.

The ACCC has no adequate legal framework/power whereby it can act,
and actually win a case, when comes to price fixing or collusion.
It is a toothless instrument shadow, of the body it replaced.

And Australia today is a much less fairer place, than the one in which I was born.
Posted by thinker 2, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 10:38:12 PM
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Yabby:>> Sonofgloin, there is plenty of competition in the banking market. 4 major banks, regional banks, credit unions, take your pick.<<

Yabby given the recent blow up over "signaling" the rate rises between the big four banks, your "take your pick" exclamation is hollow, as hollow as the ACCC.

In 1960 Australia had a population of 10 million and we had five national trading banks that provided services to both the domestic and commercial segments.

In 2010 we had a population of 22 million and five banks providing that spread of services nationally, now in 2011 we are back to four majors. The regional banks and credit unions are minnows, like a local shop, we had an upcoming supermarket but the ACCC helped Wespac to eat it.
Posted by sonofgloin, Thursday, 3 February 2011 9:23:07 AM
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Sonofgloin, I remind you that Keating deregulated the banking system.
So there are all sorts of banks to choose from. You too can go
and start a new bank, if you are prepared to risk the money or
win the trust of investors, that you won't lose the lot on their
behalf.

Bankwest tried pretty hard to break into the ES markets, but it seems
people prefer to stick with their old banks. In the end, the
British failed and Comm Bank bought them out.

St George was not rated as highly as Westpac, so had to pay more
for its money. Coming under the Westpac umbrella has benefitted
their customer amd was a good thing to happen, with the GFC looming.

Banks look over their shoulders, to see what the other guy is doing,
just like every other business.

What the banking enquiry revealed was just how narrow a net margin
that most banks work on, generally less then 1% of their total
assets. So if they paid 1% more for their money or charged 1%
less, they would make nothing at all. Hardly a rip off.
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 3 February 2011 10:00:04 AM
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"God don't wish that upon us Hazza, the oil companies will buy up all the Canola farms and what would we do for margarine."

That is quite a good point Gloin- it is alleged that oil would companies try to buy out car companies to actually scuttle any production of non-oil-dependent cars- so that idea may not be too surprising.
(although personally I find Margarine to be far more suited to powering a car than to be eaten, myself).

The only hope is that either the government takes responsibility to implement infrastructure for alternative fuel (which IS arguably their job) or numerous wholesalers of the alternative fuel products (or electric cars) quickly jump into the market providing too large a competitor base for buyouts and price-fixing to take control
Posted by King Hazza, Thursday, 3 February 2011 3:26:04 PM
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Yabby:>> What the banking enquiry revealed was just how narrow a net margin that most banks work on, generally less then 1% of their total
assets. So if they paid 1% more for their money or charged 1%
less, they would make nothing at all. Hardly a rip off.<<

Yabby my china plate, we have been down the road of bank profits before you and I, and I aint going back there with you again, but thanks for the spin.
Posted by sonofgloin, Thursday, 3 February 2011 5:27:04 PM
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Fair enough, Sonogloin.

When it comes to banking, we have much hollering on OLO, but little
informed comment. Unlike most, I've made it my business to
understand the industry and the figures, to some extent.

Given the 2 trillion $ borrowed from the big 4, its clear that
Australians impulsive obessesion to spend and borrow is the problem,
not bank margins.

But yes, its a human foible to blame everyone but ourselves, when
things go wrong and we struggle to repay debts. Its much more
difficult to be objective about the reality, so if you can't
help yourself here, its understandable :)
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 3 February 2011 8:27:34 PM
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Yabby I recall the local Commonwealth bank manager who knew me from boy to man. I went to him for my first car loan, he said gets some savings record going and I will lend you the rest, I did and he did. The same for the boat loan a little further down the track. I went to Tony for my first housing loan, he said come up with a quarter and I will fund the rest, I did, he did.

In the same fashion that we need police we need lending bodies who do not let us cut off our nose to spite our face. The "new usury" simply looks at the ability of the asset to be redeemed not the ability of the borrower to service the debt ongoing. Couple that with the consumerism that has crept in generationally and unless you are a smart cookie you could be in debt and without the asset very quickly.

The powers regulate smoking, drinking, gambling, drug taking, and what is politically correct and what is not, but we can commit suicide financially and the powers do not care because the “money” never comes up short.
Posted by sonofgloin, Friday, 4 February 2011 7:46:56 AM
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You raise an interesting point there Sonofgloin, namely how much
do we babysit the consumer ?

The punters lose many billions a year at the pokies, we say nothing.
Apart from WA of course, where they are not allowed in clubs.

Harvey Norman offers 4 year interest free deals, bankrolled by the
Americans, ie GE Finance. People rush in, they want it all today.

One would think that the huge interest rates on credit cards would
make people think twice before running up debts, but not so. They
want it now and will pay a fortune to have it now. The notion
of waiting until we can afford something, seems to be bypassing
whole generations.

I note that Sydney house prices are still going up, despite being
over the top and despite the big 4 clamping down on security and
deposits, since the GFC and so many mortage lenders and overseas
banks closing down.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 4 February 2011 10:46:51 PM
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If only fools see themselves:).....I could say more...but they would not.

BLUE
Posted by Deep-Blue, Friday, 4 February 2011 11:54:59 PM
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The interest free programs to which you refer Yabby, are of course a fraud, because the interest component is contained
in the fixed price of the item your purchasing.

Funded by Americans my *rse, "it costs them nothing", " because in reality there no such thing as an interest free loan ". In fact they're making money. The purchaser is funding the cost of the loan in advance. It costs GE, Citibank, etc zero to offer such mythical finance products.

Every time I bring up the issue of our Trade Practices Act, I am largely ignored by all posters on this forum. Why is this?.

Claiming that a loan is interest free, when in fact the interest has been collected in advance.
I would have thought at the very least, that this would considered an undesirable trade practice.

Petrol prices yoyo-ing, banks signalling interest rates to each other, supermarkets colluding with fuel distributors by internet links, fixing and/or manipulating prices. Energy Companies and communications/phone companies the same and so on.

What do you think they do?, change prices in unison by running down the road
and looking at each other's price signs?.

" If only we knew how expensive our phone and internet services were, and how inadequate they were, compared to other countries ", " we would never again, allow them to be owned by private/business interests ", and once again would understand the value of taxpayer owned essential services or utilities. Such as the NBN should be, for example.

So you want a Rupert Murdoch or some other similar beast owning your water supply do you?.
I would want to be sure that I was in control of my future, if I was thinking about it.
Posted by thinker 2, Saturday, 5 February 2011 6:55:58 PM
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*Claiming that a loan is interest free, when in fact the interest has been collected in advance.
I would have thought at the very least, that this would considered an undesirable trade practice.*

Not really Thinker 2, for its no different to a car company throwing
in a few thousand Dollars worth of extras for "free". Of course
its built into the price, they simply reduce their margins.

It just goes to show the big margins that Harvey Norman must work
on, for those who pay up front and pay the sticker price. That
is exactly why I haggle :)

*What do you think they do?, change prices in unison by running down the road
and looking at each other's price signs?.*

Never underestimate how competitive business can be, Thinker 2.
I've known business people who went through their competitors
rubbish bins. If you follow their financial reports, net margins
are indeed pretty slim in most industries, due to competition.

*If only we knew how expensive our phone and internet services were*

Oh I know alright, Thinker 2. I remember when Telstra was a big
fat Govt monopoly and robbed me blind, because they could.
Perhaps you weren't on the internet, when Telstra under Frank Blount,
were charging 9$ an hour for internet access and a fortune for
overseas calls. How times have changed
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 5 February 2011 7:38:49 PM
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