The second installment of the Immigration Nation—the Secret History of Us fulfilled my prediction made in my first post in response to the first episode of the program. The cynicism and negativity on this part of our history persisted, which have produced a curious, if not an outright ridiculous line of narrative.

This is the major outline of the second part: after the WWII, Australia embarked on a massive immigration program to boost its population for national security and economic development. Arthur Calwell and Ben Chifley were the major architects of the program, who succeeded in bringing a large number of non-British immigrants against overwhelming public resentment.

There is at least one major issue in the presentation calling into question the logic of the narrative.

What is the logic of depicting Calwell and Chifley in such a cynical way? Since they were the ones turning the tide of racism in the country by dismantling the WAP, why the program depicts them as being sneaky, shifty, and manipulative? The program talks about how Calwell “scared” or “frightened” the nation into a belief of “populate or perish”; the program also reveals how Calwell played propaganda games by employing public media; it also tells the audience how the minister colluded with the then PM to bring in people to the land, “without telling the cabinet or the party caucus”. Are we not supposed to praise those people who led the nation out of state of narrow-mindedness? Are we not supposed to make an effort to understand the two extraordinary men who thought ahead of their time and acted against public sentiment to bring the nation forward? Why don’t we give them the due credit of saving the nation from demise? Why don’t we celebrate the victory of reason over bigotry? Why do we keep on badmouthing those who did the most for the best of the country?

I totally agree with the writer. All my 'white' forbears came to Australia before 1850. Yet it was due to people like Curtin and Caldwell who saw the need to open up our country to other racial groups that led to the prosperity of the last half century. I am now married to a German born man who arrived in Australia in 1950 and with his German born wife quickly became naturalized. Their granddaughter is now married to a Tanzanian doctor with the World Health Organization working as a specialist in Uganda. This doctor has now been accepted for Australian residency. My husband now has a great-granddaughter of mixed race.
From my first marriage to another Australian who also had a long list of white forbears who came to Australia in the early years of settlement, I have a son who has lived and worked in China for 23 years. He married a Chinese woman who has now been accepted for Australian residency. I now have 3 grandchildren of mixed race.
As a business I have opened my home to people of several races, mostly Korean and Japanese, as a backpacker hostel for 6 months each year since January 2006. Many of these will seek to gain the qualifications to apply for Australian residency.
I believe that every racial group who comes to Australia should be encouraged to feel 'at home' in Australia. Historically every racial group has made a significant contribution, which may only be observed when looking back.

Peng
I did not watch this program so cannot offer any comment on its content. Most Australians do praise the end of the WAP and can see the policy for what it was - a fear campaign based in bigotry. Bigotry also works on a base of fear and suspicion of those who appear different. Ultimately people are the same wherever you go. At that time very few Australians travelled and had little exposure to different cultures so it was a fertile bed to instil those fear based 'values'.

Interestingly I have been watching SBS's 'The Face of America' which explores US immigration history through a number of different well known US citizens of varying backgrounds. The US was certainly ahead of Australia in it's immigration policies but still held onto the same prejudices where Asian immigrants could not seek citizenship for some time while white and black applicants faced no obstacles.

Time, generational change and integration of different cultures aids in reducing bigotry. I think this would have happened over time with or without those leaders given technological advancements that increased global information sharing and opportunities for travel.

pelican, the people I know can't be 'most Australians'.
Most Australians (at least the White ones) would prefer that we did not import the unwanted dross from third world destinations and dangerous fudamentalist regimes. Not to mention the current wave of savages from East Africa.
It's just that 'most Australians' are scared to voice their true opinions for fear of foaming-mouthed lefties screaming 'racists!'.
Call me what you like, I don't care.

Documentaries can be a major disservice to issues of public importance, and this has been one such disservice. There is a problem common to most documentaries and to many analysts; for some inexplicable reason too many people believe in "they", it's easy to say "they" did this and knew that. But the truth is that every government, nation, church, and even corporation is a collection of people with dissipate knowledge, motives, and abilities.

Documentaries about Indonesia talk about the public's attitude as if that had anything to do with Jakarta's decisions; likewise Washington's decisions are largely the product of corporations and the advice turned out from US universities after decades of private funding of their schools. In 19th century Australia, most Europeans were NOT English; Europe was plagued with the aftermath of Napoleon and crop failures, many people came to Australia seeking a chance at being self sufficient. Unlike the general population, the colonial administration was British and that ruling class created the disproportionate British and Church influence in Australia in the 20th century. How dare people accuse my ancestors of loving the English, dozens of ancestors from Bohemia to Germany, even some from Scotland and Ireland.

Henry Parkes had a English voice but he was willing to talk with the non-English and took to the public stage. The documentary also forgets that in 1901 much of the Aboriginal population was out of reach, there was no feasible way for the people to know what the white fellows were doing or to register to vote; there was a practical problem and that real issue gave strength for members of the ruling elite who wanted to exclude the indigenous vote.

The White Australia Policy and other policies were products of an elite class of people debating their dissipate ambitions with their dissipate abilities. While we should have our own opinions about those policies, there is questionable wisdom in accusing the public and individuals of a hundred yeas ago of things.

There's no need, Austin Powerless.

>>Call me what you like, I don't care<<

You already know what you are.

The only unfortunate aspect is that you are proud of it.

That AP is junk, call you what we like? I hope you are young, time may fix your problems.
Those post war migrants,and those who gave us them, made our country.
I except, shamelessly am part of,concerns about recent middle eastern migration, nothing to do with nationality.
And know, some from that back ground are going to do great things for this country and them selves.
Peng no media in this country can resist giving blown up self important fools a platform to say silly things, this TV show proves that.

Yes it was remiss of me generalising by the use of the phrase "most Australians", but I do believe that many Australians, certainly the majority I am acquainted with, have no issue with race or culture.

I can't believe anyone would use the term "third world dross" to describe human beings who very often find themselves in situations of poverty or civil war over which they have little control.

Our ancestors were all "dross" once including my Irish ancestors who by the actions of an imperialist English government lost the right to own property (even a donkey), speak their own language, go to school and were victims of famine while thousands of tonnes of food were being exported from Ireland to line the pockets of landowners. I am sure the landed gentry of that time used similar derisory terms to validate their own behaviour and self interests.

I saw the program

I thought it kind to Calwell

No "two Wongs" quoted

I forgot to look at the second installment of the program Peng, but I am sorry I missed it. :(

I was disgusted enough by the following comments to want to contribute to the thread anyway.
Austin Powerless <"Most Australians (at least the White ones) would prefer that we did not import the unwanted dross from third world destinations..."

Speak for yourself AP!
I haven't noticed this at all in any of the people (various ancestry) that I mix with.

Words you wrote, such as 'white ones', 'savages' and 'dross' speak volumes about you ...

Austin Powerless,

You said (amongst your catalogue of "pleasantries"): "Call me what you like, I don't care."

I really couldn't be bothered wasting my breath calling you anything - but I will quote Goethe to you:
"There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action."

pelican,
I believe you are right that most Australians do not care about race but culture is a different matter all together. If you talk to people you will find that, like myself, they object to many aspects of other cultures and expect new arrivals to integrate into our society and forgo certain aspects of their original culture.

I could easily list some that I find alien, but am sure you are aware of some cultural practices that you cannot abide or accept.

In fact, I think we should discriminate and stop immigration of those groups that cannot or will not intergrate. I reckon about 90% do make the cultural adjustments to fit in. A non-discriminatory policy does not do a thing to enhance our society and is an ideolodgical dream.

Bazz
I agree in part with your statement. There are certainly some traditions and rituals that I would not want enshrined in Australian Law, and there are practices that many would find barbaric. Many new Australians bring with them some inbuilt prejudices of their own, this is not new and generational change usually ensures successful integration.

Bigotry is certainly not limited to white Australians, and some newcomers display resentment, a 'superiority of values' complex and hold little gratitude to the host nation who have taken them in. However, they are a minority in my experience.

How would we determine who should be let in and who not, based on culture if the majority of one cultural group are happy to conform to our laws.

We are all more likely to get along however, if we create opportunities for new immigrants and rather than be hyper-critical, be more embracing which will allow little opportunity for disenfranchisement. It is feelings of isolation from the norm that drive some of these resentments and that is fertile ground for problems.

Cooperation and tolerance does have to come from all 'sides', a one-sided love affair is doomed to fail.

Apologies, I meant to write Banjo.

Pelican,
I agree with you that it is only a minority of cultures that cause us problems, and in a lot of cases the generational change reduces the problem. However, in some instances the problems are handed down from generation to generation. For example, prejudcices and hatred of others seem to be handed down, as is the practice of FGM. Women that have had FGM performed on them here, as little girls, are now having their own daughters 'done'. Dispite some 16 years of education the practice is on the increase.

This is only my opinion but I think that it is the newcomers that continually refresh these alien cultural aspects.

Therefore we should stop importing those groups that stick doggedly to the old practices and attitudes that we find alien. Law enforcement agencies know the groups that fight each other and conduct anti-social behaviour. The health authorities know which groups carry out FGM. I highlight FGM as I believe it is shamefull that we turn a blind eye to the mutilation of little girls. Other alien cultural practices may be more difficult to identify as we do not keep records relating to forced marriages, etc. Although DOCS should have knowledge of such groups.

I am certainly not advocating deportation or the banning of a whole group because one person breaks the law. Only stop importing if the group generally displays alien cultural practice and cannot/will not change

I don't agree Banjo. We can't 'ban' whole cultures or countries because we don't like the practices of a few. That would be discriminating against the many good people of countries at war or in some other dire need of emigrating.

Instead, we need laws against all those dangerous practices here in this country, and if anyone breaks the law, such as female genital mutilation, then they will be punished.

I imagine though that it would take some time for some cultures to come around to the idea that FGM is abhorrent.
Just as it has taken time for our western society to come to that realisation about male circumcision.

Funny - I came to Australia from a third world country where I was unwanted (a white kid standing in the way of a liberated black Africa), but I've never been called 'dross' before.

That said, I would have been allowed in under the WAP: I am as pasty, freckly and ginger-topped as any Briton.

Seriously, though: the 'populate or perish' line WAS used to scare the nation, and underhanded techniques WERE used to bring down the popular WAP. I admit that I didn't give this week's episode my undivided attention, but I certainly missed the cynical undertone you picked up, Peng.

I predict that the series will conclude with Australia finally embracing its multiculturalism (though with some concerns for the future) - perhaps a reflection of the nation as it stands today. The reality is that our history has a distinctly racist theme running through it. Like I said in the last thread on this series, the difference is that our racism was initially academic and 'cultured' - not the rednecked, ignorant racism we see in some sectors today.

My overall impression of the series to date is that it is casting our forefathers (and some of our older citizens today) as misguided but not inherently bad people. It acknowledges the racism without invoking the usual guilt. As a teacher of English, though, I'm aware that there are as many different interpretations of a text as there are readers. Mine is different from yours, and there's no reason for either of us to apologise for that. Diversity is what it's all about.

Susie,
We presently have laws against anti-social behaviour and FGM but they are not invoked. Did you hear of anyone being properly punished for the rioptous behaviour at the soccer or tennis? After an inquiry in 1994 we implemented laws against FGM and started an education programme aimed at the cultures that practice it. Not one person has ever been charged with an offence relating to FGM, even though evidence is available from emergency departments of hospitals and some hospitals have specialist units to deal with post FGM problems.

We turn a blind eye to FGM. The incidence is increasing and education has failed.

Our weak politicians will not uphold the laws they implemented, so we must look to alternatives.

We can, and should, discriminate against cultures that will not adjust their ways to fit into our society. Its a bit like pulling all the beds apart in an army barracks and having them all remade because one is not made properly. Its called peer presure and it works.

Immigrants get ample information about our society and our laws and standards. If some cannot abide by what is acceptable then they should go elsewhere.

Banjo <"Did you hear of anyone being properly punished for the rioptous behaviour at the soccer or tennis?"
Yes of course I have, although that lot were mainly white English soccer fans I believe?
Shall we ban all white British people from emigrating here then?

"Not one person has ever been charged with an offence relating to FGM, even though evidence is available from emergency departments of hospitals and some hospitals have specialist units to deal with post FGM problems."

Really? Have you got stats on that Banjo? I have worked in hospital emergency departments where the police have been alerted to those cases... and I would imagine it is the same at all hospitals.
Many laws are broken by many different people of all cultures in this country. No surprises there...

Banjo
Immigrants are required to adhere to the law as any other person. There are laws against stealing but people will still do it, and those who break the law are prosecuted. It is up to the judicial system to implement the full force of the law in these cases.

I agree that the message has not always been strong enough and there are little in the way of arrests that I could find. That is the fault of the justice system and governments who turn a blind eye in some cases under a misguided sense of cultural sensitivities. This stance only fosters the system of illegal FGM but it seems, as Suze's experience demonstrates, police are called to these cases.

It is true that FGM still goes on and some of it in unhygienic backyard operations. There is certainly more to be done on education around FGM (a procedure that has no religious basis) and practioners and parents should be prosecuted with the full force of the law including involvement of DOCS.

FGM is illegal:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_act/ca190082/ (scroll down the page a bit)

to all the PC bozos, I really don't care what you think in your brainwashed little minds.
Pericles, I'm neither proud or not, I'm only stating the facts.
Belly, I didn't really understand your response as it was written in your characteristic 'Yoda like grammar'.
Suzeonline, maybe my comments speak volumes about me but at least I am consistent. On the other hand, you wrote ' We can't 'ban' whole cultures or countries because we don't like the practices of a few'
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4230#106606
yet, on another thread, you are all for banning public handgun ownership because of the recent shooting in the USA.
Poirot, you can play with your moustache.

To end this post, have a look at
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/train-passengers-watched-sexual-assault-of-teenage-train-passenger/story-e6frea83-1225990333085?referrer=email&source=AN_email_nl&emcmp=AD&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member
and tell me that the dross are welcome and assimilating.

AP:

Being consistent is not necessarily something to be proud of. It all depends in what you're being consistant. A classic study by Theodore Adorno and his associates tried to find out whether some people have personality patterns that make them more prone to prejudice than others. The study concluded that some people have a psychological make up that Adorno referred to as the "authoritarian personality" - with a distinctive set of traits, including - conformity, intolerance, and insecurity.
Those who have this personality pattern, it was found, are submissive to superiors and bullying to inferiors. They tend to have anti-intellectual and anti-scientific attitudes; they are disturbed by ambiguity in sexual or religious matters, and they see the world in very rigid and stereotyped terms. The authoritarian personality, Adorno claimed, is primarily a product of family environment in which the parents were cold, aloof, disciplinarian, and themselves bigoted.
Of course Adorno's work has its flaws, however it is generally accepted that some people are psychologically more prone to prejudiced thinking than others. Therefore, while we all like to think of ourselves as tolerant persons, even passionate in our belief that we all are equal, it is apparent that we all have a continuing obligation to work on our attitudes. Our aim should always be to behave with respect towards others, and to encourage this in all people. That's not "political correctness," but human decency. The key feature of prejudice is that it is always rooted in generalisations and so ignores the differences among individuals.

Thanks, Lexi, it's very timely that you bring up what Adorno wrote about. I'm very intrigued by some basic questions:

* can Adorno's 'authoritarian personality' be related in any way to any particular body of religious dogma ? Or to all of them ? To some far more than others ?

* can it be related to any body of cultural practices, i.e. 'culture' ? Are some 'cultures' more authoritarian than others ? Is the resort to 'culture' in fact an authoritarian tactic ?

Culture and religion are human creations, closely associated with power in social relations. So it would not be a surprise if they dovetailed with power and inequality in societies.

Joe

Hi Joe:

We know, I think, that racism is found among different peoples in societies all over the world, and that it is notable for its international scale and systematic theoretical justification by theologians and scientists alike. To explore the nature of prejudice, Adorno tested his subjects on three different sets of attitudes:
anti-semitism, fascism, and ethnocentrism. His method was to ask the subjects to indicate their agreement or disagreement with a series of statements that were anti-Jewish, authoritarian, or hostile to different or unfamiliar ways of life. Adorno's significant finding was that people who agreed strongly with any one set of statements tended also to agree strongly with the others. In other words those who were prejudiced against Jews were also likely to favour strong authoritarian leadership, and to have a very ethnocentric view of their own group and customs.

Some critics have pointed out that Adorno's methodology was weak in certain respects - that he neglected the possibility of an authoritarian personality amongst radicals as well as conservatives;
others felt that Adorno's concept was too vague and sweeping in its scope. However, as I wrote in my earlier post it is now generally accepted that some people are psychologically more prone to prejudiced thinking than others.

Thanks, Lexi. Coming from a lifetime on the left, I am well aware that authoritarians can be found there - come the revolution, they would be the executioners, I suspect, the Dzerzhinskys and Yezhovs and Berias, the Ministers of Public Security, that sort of role. The black-and-white leftists, I would call them, those who would corrupt an ideology by turning it into a punishing religion, a necessary principle of which is that all non-believers must be exterminated 'for the common good'. Hence the similarities with fascism and Nazism.

As well, we can also find those who would turn a set of religious principles into a black-and-white ideology: it seems to me that proponents of shari'a law fall into this trap, in their opposition to free speech, democracy and equal rights. Still, the door must be kept open to them too, as long as they don't start advocating the extermination of non-believers. Oops.

This might help to explain the mindless support for anything Islamist by sections of the Left: see first paragraph.

Joe

Susie and Pelican,
The riots I was referring to was in relation to soccer in Sydney, wher Croats and Serbs were fighting over cultural differences that occured maybe centuries ago. Cars were burnt and shots fired into buildings. To my knowledge there have not been such behaviour in Aus by English fans. The Croats and Serbs were at it again at the Melbourne tennis last year and the year before. Wonder if the same conduct this year. The point is that they bring their long standing cultural hatreds with them and hand that hatred down to each generation. It is not acceptable and we should not tolerate it.

Recently the Sri Lankans and Tamils have been fighting each other in Sydney and Melbourne. One instance involved a home invasion where a bloke was tied to a chair and acid poured over him. Hell, these people get away with all sorts of acts because of their culture.

I wrote to the Minister for Health in NSW asking why no one had ever been charged with offences relating to FGM. The reply was 'There are cultural considerations' Susie if you have worked in hospitals you would be very aware of the mutilation of FGM. I do not know if FGM is reported to the police or not, but it should be and the parents should also be charged. No, they are not charged and remember the hospitals only see the instances where problems arise. Pelican, all instances of FGM take place in unhygenic conditions, usually on a kitchen table with no anesethic and the poor girl held down by older women. What a way to spend the Christmas holidays, and it is cultural and not a religous practice.

We are far too tolerant of alien cultures and our laws are not upheld.

That is why I advocate a discrimatary immigration policy.

What's the good of this society [ islam ] when they send their daughters back to islam to marry then bring their islam husband back here. What have we gained, more good ozzy's or more islam's.

Banjo, what is the difference between the bad behaviour of white English soccer fans in several European cities, and the bad behaviour of the soccer fans in Australia you talk about above?
None at all.

All people exhibiting bad behaviour at sporting events should be punished the same - regardless of their colour or ethnic group.

Oh dear 579!
Words escape me really...

This thread's content is rapidly deteriorating.
I'm out of here.
See you all on another thread.

Susie,
Firstly, the behaviour of English soccer fans in Europe is their problem, not ours. But if i were a leader of a European nation the penalties would be harsh and bans put in place. It should be unacceptable.

Secondly the violence between some cultural groups here is cultural, sport is just an excuse for the violence. They do not need sport to clash. The recent violence of Sri Lankans took place in a car park.

If you think its simply a matter of us upholding our laws, then you are welcome to try to get the polys to act. I have been trying to get some action in relation to FGM now for several years, without success, and I intend to again raise the subject at the next state election.

Funny thing, we regularly have raids on cock fighting venues and charge those involved, yet never any charges against acts of FGM. The conclusion is that we place more importance on the welfare of roosters than we do on the well being of little girls.

As I said before, immigrants are well advised about our laws and society, so there is no excuse for their non compliance except they know we turn a blind eye. It is a dammed disgrace.

"As I said before, immigrants are well advised about our laws and society, so there is no excuse for their non compliance except they know we turn a blind eye. It is a dammed disgrace."

On that I would agree Banjo if what you say is actually occuring. If failure to prosecute are being put down to cultural differences what is the point of making the act illegal. However, that is also the responsibility of the judiciary (and governments) to put these cases before the courts. A condition of entry could be a signed contract that any illegal behaviour within an agreed probationary period is a ticket back to the point of origin - including FGM.

Governments and judiciary are not aruging that rape is okay for some cultures because women don't have the same value so we should all be culturally sensitive. FGM is forced mutilation without consent (of a legal adult) and should be treated as such. To turn a blind eye is an abbrogation of responsibility to those children.

Pelican and Banjo,

Yes, is culture sometimes (often ? always?) an imaginative way to justify power relations, particularly gender relations, wielded and defended by those in power, almost invariably men, against those without it, almost invariably women and children.

Do culture and democracy ultimately oppose each other ? Does the struggle for equal rights inevitably develop into a battle against the cultural status quo ?

Joe

Pelican,
Now you are thinking. I have not considered the signing of a contract relating to the cancelation of the permanent residence visa for all illegal acts. Currently, a permanent residency visa can only be canceled if a conviction carries a sentence of 2 years or more. No deportation if citizenship is obtained. We are most tolerant, I recall an instance wher a bloke appealed his deportation after being convicted of drug dealing and won, because he had fathered a child while here and the court felt it would be unfair on the child.

Still your suggestion is worthy of consideration.

I think that if we do not soon start prosecuting the parents for FGM and we start charging later, the argument will be that as we have never done anything about it, we condone it and it is now acceptable within our culture. Probably the same applies to polygamy and forced marriages. Did I not hear our former PM say that to do nothing is to condone or accept it, about something I cannot remember what.

We either get our authorities to uphold our laws and social standards or we stop importing those that thumb their nose at our society.

Lest we not forget, young and old Aussies
whether born here or overseas, irrelevant, do take one moment to read, when you're ready please!

Our 'diggers' along with the 'Kiwis', some 'Europeans', and 'middle easterners' fought alongside one another in unity, throughout many wars on different shores, to stand up for the downtrodden, children and adult lives most at risk; how quickly all nationalities forget, about our anscestors, the unity "and I'll cover your back" that did exist; 'tsk tsk'.

A tear in their eye, from up above, watching today's racism, disrespect, sexism and degradation on both sides
some young into drugs, behaving like 'mugs', harming and thieving, not in the name of religion or original cultures
you young were taught better, no excuses, wake up! Know yourselves, cease the playacting as vultures.

Show a bit of respect and love for your Forebears, take pride in your family name and stamp upon this earth yon Aussie, Lebanese, Middle Eastern, Indian and European people, any other background, shall I continue to hound?

Were you not taught some honesty, respect, kindness and consideration by a role model, your father, mother, sister or brother? Its of no use creating racist barriers, degrading others, breaking the law, O Ye of little character, constantly running for cover!

What ethnicity or groupings do in the long run, is to alienate people within the workplace, communities and socially,
it is up to you as the new generation to say 'lets be honest with ourselves, we were taught better', shouting "Unity" we are all Aussies' vocally.

Certain races, breed, familiarity resulting in contempt, wars re-commence, old problems resurface, why repeat and re-invent?

Another generation beyond yours has to be taught what's right from wrong, when you're old it's too late, what will be the consequences of all your attitudes, behaviour, actions and hate when sick, elderly and frail, young Cobber and Mate?

A little (poem)? I put together a few years back, directed more towards some of today's young generation.

Best wishes.

More than pleased to see loudmouths contributions.
It can be lonely coming from the left and being amazed at the blindness to some.
Not new, another generation had those who at first supported Hitler.
Then my mob dreamed of communism while Russia slaughtered even more than Nazi, mostly its own.
Others will live to question todays idea that no threat exists.
And that equality for females, freedom of religion was for every one ,not forced belief or death.
The best intentions,if worn like glasses with blinkers can lead to deep mud.
In time, maybe soon, China and Russia will see the threat far clearer we can expect fire works.
In time too,we will be reminded that those who looked saw this impending trouble clearly.
Raw mustard, my grammar is bad,but you have deeper problems and I would not swap.
Your need to be seen as hot stuff is hidden by your display of foolishness.

Banjo
I was thinking more of a probationary period rather than a cancellation of a permanent residency visa. Once you are a citizen you are a citizen as I see it. Then the judiciary needs to do its job.

Pelican,
A normal immigrant receives a permanent residency visa before actually coming here. One must be here for 4 years,or maybe 5, before appling for citizenship. It is during the PR period that deportation can take place if convicted of an offenceand jailed for 2 years or more. The Minister may have other discretionary powers as well.

I see that as a probationary period, but of course there are some who never take out citizenship. The only difference I see is that citizens are required to vote and cannot be deported.

There was an inquiry into criminal acts by non-citizens some years ago and there was no change recomended.

Our politicians seem reluctant to enforce our laws in some instances and unless they do enforce it is for show purposes only.

That is why I am advocating a discriminatory immigration policy.

In relation to FGM, I will raise the issue before the next state election and see if I can generate discussion or get a firm comittment from one of the major parties.