Dear fellow Electricity and Gas consumers.

Do you ever feel POWERLESS?
Do you cringe at the very sight of an obvious bill from TRU or ORIGIN ?
Do you hunger for some way of getting enough power to DO something about these outrageous demands on your hip pocket while high flying CEO's and upper management from these companies drive around in their 7 series Beamers or Mercs before parking them in their 5 car garage in their luxury mansions? (while you can only think of getting through the day financially!)

A random survey this morning reveals that 100% of people interviewed are favorable to the idea of a 'buying bloc' for Electricity and/or Gas.

Alone...we are weak and definitely powerLESS.

TOGETHER we can be a force to be reckoned with!

"Imagine" if you are a CEO of an energy company, and a 'representative' of a buying bloc presents you with 10,000 customer account numbers and an authorization to negotiate on their behalf and to change provider at the drop of a hat ?

AVERAGE QTRLY BILL $300 (my last 2 were $640 each)
CUSTOMERS= 10,000
TOTAL QTRLY INCOME TO ENERGY PROVIDER $3,000,000
ANNUAL INCOME $12,000,000 (or LOSS if bloc goes to another provider)

Then...imagine that the day after the person comes a knocking....*Poof* it's allll GONE !

How would your SHARE PRICE go?
How would your 'PERFORMANCE BONUS' go?
How would "Moral" within the company be ?

I invite criticism of this idea in terms of unexpected costs/consequences.

Provide Estimates of

-Setup Cost (admin/website)
-Employees needed
-Compliance/legal requirements

BLOC PROCUREMENT CAPABILITY.
-Solar Buying power. (Container loads direct)
-Advocate for special deal for Pensioners (in the bloc)
-Significant discount to bloc members
-Negotiate with Tradesmen for special rates.

I suddenly LOVE "Unions" :)

Banks....watch this space !

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/nsw-to-slash-costly-solar-feedin-tariff-20101027-173hs.html

So Govts give away billions of $ of your energy costs to a few
people, you get slugged extra as part of your power bill and
now you blame those execs.

Rational thinking is seems, is just not part of your make up, Boaz.

I welcome your newfound interest in solidarity Al.

Does your sudden epiphany extend to solidarity against the bosses and capitalists when it comes to working conditions and wages?
If not Why? If it is good enough for consumers it should be ok for workers too surely.
Why only electricity? Plenty of other companies gouging and harming the public that could be taken down a peg if we all stood together.
The banks for starters.

"Alone...we are weak and definitely powerLESS.

TOGETHER we can be a force to be reckoned with!"

Never forget only Solidarity makes us strong

Paying for power by postcode
http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/video#
Power companies are sending huge -bills with no explanation
and..postcodes are determining..how much*..people pay for their electricity.

Moving to a new house in Brisbane, Maggie Lawson kept her electricity account with Origin Energy,but she was shocked to find her bill had tripled at her new address...She immediately disputed the bill.

"The first person I spoke to at Origin actually went through all of my bills with me..and started with the first bill.. They said that the start read..that we had was an estimate,..so this is the point that every other bill is generated,"Maggie said.

"My question was how can that be a start,..how can a start read be an estimate?"

A year later..and there's still no explanation.

"Energex told me it was a faulty meter, Origin told me that it was a faulty meter,there's nothing wrong with the meter," Maggie said.

The only change was her address..and that can prove very,..very costly when it comes to electricity.

Today Tonight's discovere.. that power companies have free*reign to charge..what-ever they like,..*and often do.

*It seems it all comes down to..*where you live.

Ben Freund is from power price-comparison/website GoSwitch.com.au.

A person living in Parramatta will pay an average of $160 more a year than someone living half an hour away in Sydney's CBD...In Queensland,..a Bundaberg resident will pay $100 more than if they were living in Brisbane.

The biggest postcode discrimination..is in Melbourne's CBD where you'll pay $300 more than someone living in Fawkner,13 kilometres away.

"Some parts of the state are just more desirable for energy companies,"Ben said.

Power companies will target8..particular suburbs..offering discounts.

"Because they are more reliable,..some areas just have a more predictable consumption of electricity,"..Ben added.

Chris turned to the Energy Ombudsman,..as have thousands of other consumers.

"If you are going to query your bill,..do it quickly...A lot of discounts are tied to paying it on time so if you don't pay your bill on time, you may find your bill just got higher," Ben said.

,..Origin Energy is unable to comment on her case.

*ANNUAL INCOME $12,000,000 (or LOSS if bloc goes to another provider)*

Ah, if only life were so simple. I had a look for you, Boaz. Origin
work on roughly 7c in the Dollar as profit, so 93c would be costs.

So if your energy cost per unit were much lower, it would make more
sense to just cut you off :)

Its a human foible to blame everyone else for our own deficiencies,
I know, but the question arises, what do you do with that much
power, to have a bill of 640$? I gather that cost per kw/h is
around 20c in the east, much like here. Yet my power bill is around
160$.

Perhaps its all that watching Glenn Beck on the plasma screen.

I don't have a plasma, they are power guzzlers, so I have an LED,
much more efficient.
I have a solar hot water system, saves a fortune.
I cut my own wood for heating, saves a fortune and is great
exercise.

But I know, its easier just to blame those evil capitalists.
It doesen't require too much thinking and its common on OLO.

Yabby I am reluctant to inform you...companies, and in particular, CEOs and Directors lie, lie and lie [bathing in their capital] all in the name of profit, profit and more profit. 7c in the dollar? The other way around; 93c in the dollar retained for themselves and shareholders. The Directors tend to miss out on the big biccies in some companies or are used up and kicked out on their backsides when the new CEO is replaced after a few years.

Dog eat dog companies all put in place by government outsourcing and selling out overseas. Most 'energy' companies are international companies not Australian companies and well on their way to selling out 100% to Singapore and other countries.

Government caved in and made some quick dollars over the last few years without bothering to notify Australian taxpayers and ratepayers. Q: What do we receive for paying Rates, Stamp Duties, GST and all of the hidden taxes? A. The country's interests sold out overseas, higher costs of living, loss of services [escalating], do not get me started..., high interest rates, wait for the job losses and pay cuts, trade LOSSES, the country's stuffed, all from a long time ago.

Rising costs and hidden costs are added monthly. Most energy companies despatch their Accounts every few weeks instead of every month or two months. Other companies are doing the same. DUE by dates within a couple of weeks not 30 days.

Trot trot to the mailbox daily to find most bills with the same companies that were paid the week previously,now reappear in their mailboxes for another high out of this world amount.

Most of my friends have not seen a 'meter reading employee' in their suburbs for years.

Water tanks and solar should have been encouraged and subsidised by Government 20 years ago [they were paid by us taxpayers and ratepayers] for their intelligence vision and legislation.

Selling out to overseas companies has not brought sufficient competition to lower prices. It has done the reverse AND created constant fraudulent practices.

Team...'foooooCUS' please... Yabby.. your second post was useful..some actual figures... *GOOD BOY*

Now.. I'ts as simple as this. When you form into a solidarity bloc, you have bargaining power.

ALL GO... they lose $12 million (approx)
All STAY..they are $12 Mil better off on the bottom line.

NEGOTIATIONS BEGIN.
You ask for 5% DISCOUNT for your 10k members... =$600,000 LESS INCOME.

Compare... (You are the CEO) "Lose $12,000,000 ...or... lose $600,000"

Is there a choice?

MIKK... are you willing to stand with me outside the offices of the CBA and hold up a sign like "GREEDY CAPITALIST PIG" with a picture of Norris on it ? When u r READY and in Melbourne..lemme know and we'll go together.

WAGES and CONDITIONS... sorry mate.. that ship sailed and the horse on it jumped into the sea. I'm open to 'inflation' based improvements but not more at THIS stage.

More Productivity=Better pay. Anything more is 'theft'.

W and C will just drive us into financial oblivion more than we are now.

YABBY.. my bill is because of a 2kw fan heater which I need on just about 14hrs a day during the cooooollllllld days.

Can someone give some consideration to:

a) Setup costs
b) Type of network structure
c) Hidden/unexpected costs

please. i.e... constructively criticize the idea.

Negotiations cost money.
Re-negotiations cost money.
Monitoring of the customer block to ensure the deal is honoured costs money.
Disputing the utility companies costs money.

I predict that the money saved in bills would be spent on the protection of the customer block rights.

*The other way around; 93c in the dollar retained for themselves and shareholders*

Unique, that would be wonderful, for Origin is of course an ASX
company, largely owned by Australian workers. My super fund too
owns some shares in it. Sadly your understanding of their
financials is wrong, for of course being a public company, figures
are published and audited. If they lied, they would go to jail.

What is amazing however, is that you think that companies barely
have costs and seemingly hardly pay wages. Perhaps finance is
not your strong point. Fair enough.

*my bill is because of a 2kw fan heater which I need on just about 14hrs a day during the cooooollllllld days*

Fair enough Boaz, at 20c/kwH thats 20 bucks a week, just for that
fan heater.

The thing is, if we benchmark Australian energy prices per unit,
they are not unreasonable. In Denmark they pay 42c, Germany 30c,
Italy 37c, Philippines 28c, Tonga 45c. France is cheaper, but
they use nuclear power.

The other thing which makes our power expensive, given that we use
coal, is not the coal, but the distribution lines. Its a large
country, with lots of poles, they all need maintaining and that
ain't cheap, not with our labour costs and all that overtime paid,
every time there is a storm.

Amazing how energy costs have increased by more than 40% under federal labor, and GHG emissions have also increased.

Thanx George J, SM and Yabby

I think George has an important point in that such a bloc would need a fair bit of housekeeping.

The idea would be just to obtain an "authorization to negotiate/change provider" from each customer.

The paperwork is all on the Provider's then. I hate to think was 10,000 'changes of provider' in one day would do to the administrative kernel of Origin or TRU?

If they make 7c in the dollar 'profit' is that AFTER tax or before, and that would be AFTER the outrageously obcene CEO and senior exec paypackets.

The COST of our elec is projected to go UP UP and AWAY over the next few years... why? There are many *commercial* reasons they will cite but it all boils down to "improving share price and dividends for shareholders and performance bonuses for bosses"

These things are 'given' and being a commercial organization they must be subjected to TRUE commercial pressure in the form of a BLOC of customers who will simply not take "no...steady as we go now" as an answer.

QUESTIONs....

1/ What might an Elec provider 'do' to fight this?
2/ How would a Consumer Bloc fight back against that?
3/ Did you all know that Box Hill council used to BULK PURCHASE elec on behalf of rate payers and it gave a much cheaper price :)

*The COST of our elec is projected to go UP UP and AWAY over the next few years... why?*

Quite simple Boaz. The old coal fired power stations are clapped
out, especially the brown coal ones in Victoria. The greens want
them shut down anyhow. So new power stations need building and
they will run on gas. Gas costs more then coal. Given that
energy use is rising, as we have increased population and more
people with air conditioners, plasma screens etc, either they
build them soon or you will suffer from constant black outs in
Victoria.

The CEO salary has nothing to do with it. Origin turns over something
like 8 billion $ a year. Grant King has been an extremely good CEO
for Origin. Some years ago his base salary was 1.3 million $ plus
some share options, I'm not sure now. Given that they have millions
of customers, your share of his salary would hardly be 1$ a year.

Now I'm not sure what you think what one should pay a man who
could easily lose a billion or two, if he gets it wrong, but I
can assure you, that if he is seen to have talent, he'll soon have
offers from around the world from global headhunters.

You too can buy Origin shares, if you think they are ripping you
off. You'll earn around 3% on your money.

Hi Yabby...thanx for that.

1.3 mill is a heck of a lot less obscene than CBA's Norris' 16 million (plus perks?)

In fact.. I tend ot have more respect for Kings 1.3m in his job because it's quite technical. I doubt he will 'get it wrong' unless he's a total dope/politically rewarded appointee. There are plenty of examples and experience world wide now.

Makes you wonder why Bank CEO's get paid so much...doesn't it?

Gas fired power stations? Methinks this issue should have formed part of the 'Privatization' projections and the Aussie public made aware of how it would all pan out over 2 decades after privatization.

Have the Energy companies exercised responsible stewardship of the infrastructure? or...have they slashed and burnt for the sake of bigger bonuses and a better bottom line in the short term for 'Shareholder value'. I find it outrageous that 'suddenly' they need to spend megabucks on infrastructure, as that suggests they haven't had any plans or done anything about systematic upgrades etc.

I am still looking for input from you blokes about how a 'Bloc' might work in practice and what unexpected costs might arise. As I said.. Box Hill council used to 'bulk buy' for it's rate payers.

Why don't/can't councils represent rate payers in that way now ? (or..some other type of representative body)
I'm not talking about 'looking around for the best offer'...but 'MAKING' an offer themselves to the one who will come good.

Methinks that you are approaching this one all arsed about,Boaz.

http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/energy/policy/greenhouse-challenge/feed-in-tariffs

Power retailers are forced to pay you 60c/unit, if you install
Govt subsidised solar PV panels, which have dramatically dropped
in price anyhow.

It's crazy I know, but that is how Govts deal with other peoples
money, just give it away.

Alternately you could address why you need such a big heater.
If its to keep warm, some insulation might help to dramatically
reduce it. If its for industrial reasons, well that would be built
into the price of what you sell. But you can still use solar heat
to lower it.

Use less power and your power bill will drop. Its as simple as that.

Yabby,

The last time I reviewed Hazelwood power station, the turbines and boilers are good for at least another 20 years, and the coal supply for another 30.

The management has spent billions renewing them, and are not going to meekly hand them back.

I can certainly relate to the concept, Boaz.

Buying groups are nothing new in businesses of all shapes and sizes. And you are quite correct, if you can gather sufficient buying power within a definable group, and direct them in a manner that engages the attention of the Sales functions in your target industry, there is a good chance that you will be able to negotiate a price reduction.

What I think you "misunderestimate", is the amount of effort involved.

This is particularly true in i) the Energy sector and ii) Victoria, where customer churn already ranks among the highest in the world. This is generally an indicator of an already competitive market. Since this is largely driven by the individual consumer, recruiting enough people to achieve the critical mass you will need at the negotiating table might prove more of a challenge than you presently anticipate.

You are then faced with the problem: how will you be able to guarantee to these folk that their discount will i) be sustainable and ii) continue to represent the best possible deal? After all, the lucky energy company that gets your group's business will want some assurances as to the "stickiness" of their new customer group.

I suspect that you don't actually intend to do this yourself, though, do you?

SM, I stand corrected and used the wrong words in "clapped out"

The issue with Hazelwood seems to be its CO2 emissions, so there
is political pressure to shut it down for that reason.

The way I understand the power generation market, its unlikely
that anyone would invest in coal, due to the uncertainty about the
co2 price.

So extra capacity will be built to use gas, electricty from gas
will become more expensive.

No doubt that if they tried to shut down Hazelwood, the owners
would have every right to seek compensation.

I don't know how you can complain about your power bill. You can only be charged for what's on the meter. If you are using too much power , get rid of the offending item. [ Simple.]
Get solar power, its the best thing going. and the feed in is .66 not .60 you forgot the GST.
.21c/kwh + .56c/day service fee. Never heard of different rates for different towns, the rates only change when you go to some other power distributers area.

YABBY first:

The 60c you mention that the Power companies have to pay us for our Solar input? Nope.. correct me if I'm wrong but NSW just said "This is tooooo expensive and cut the payback from 60c to 20c because it was costing 'the government'... Now... I'm not clear (help anyone) if the 'too expensive' bit is for the Solar subsidies to set up the systems, or that the Government is paying the 60c or which.

If the energy companies have to pay it.. woopee...just deserts.

But Vic is already speaking about reducing it as well.

PERICLES.. an excellent and constructive post.... now let's spread that wisdom around to 'other' subjects eh :)

Regarding your specific points. "Underestimate the effort involved"

Clearly it would take time, cost and effort. No one works for free.. except perhaps Mother Theresa. There is another element to this proposed package which I don't wish to disclose, but... it would benefit consumers greatly, and would cost them $2.00/month.
It would involve a CEO salary and some secretarial/admin pay and some actuarial expense, but seems to me to be quite 'doable'.

One just has to think creatively about how 10,000 (or many more) consumers can apply their buying power or economic solidarity.

As to whether "I" would do this ? it's always possible.

Stickability of consumers? Obviously, contractual arrangements would be needed with guarantees from providers for at least 12months of secure pricing. (and consumers would be tied in to that period)

The difference between the current mess with providers going to great lengths to 'churn' consumers, that limited to what discount they will provide (if any) that they 'think' will be attractive enough to draw customers from their rivals. It has nothing to do with the potential bargaining power of a 10,000 strong Bloc of consumers.

*If the energy companies have to pay it.. woopee...just deserts.*

Ah but there is the rub, Boaz. In fact its you who helps pay for it
as part of your increased power charges. Because its not itemised
on your bill, you simply stay blissfully unaware and blame those
greedy companies. Yet its purely a political decision. The
companies are simply the messengers.

Boaz Aint that what the power companys are doin now. You are suggesting a company inside a company. Why not just be a power provider and dodge the middle man. Bying direct from the generators.

Hi 579...nope...the power companies represent 'share holders' not consumers.

A consumer bloc would represent consumers 100%

The power of such a bloc is becoming rather attractive :) in fact..I'm beginning to imagine myself as a kind of....god!

(that's a reference to how a particular person sees himself on another thread :)

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4099

Yabby... I think the Government pays the power companies for that solar input thingy.. if not, then yes..it's "us" in fact it's a bit like redistribution of wealth.....right?

You could be right, of course Boaz.

>>The difference between the current mess with providers going to great lengths to 'churn' consumers, that limited to what discount they will provide (if any) that they 'think' will be attractive enough to draw customers from their rivals. It has nothing to do with the potential bargaining power of a 10,000 strong Bloc of consumers.<<

But given the amount of churn in the Victorian market, I'm not convinced that the providers actually have a great deal of latitude on pricing.

My reasoning is that they have already factored in the cost of losing customers, into their prices.

There is, as we know, a measurable cost involved in acquiring one single customer. When establishing their pricing policies, most companies include this cost in their calculations. Let's say the figure is $100, and the average account yields $1,000 p.a. They would - given their knowledge of price elasticity and its impact on purchasing patterns - theoretically be able to use this 10% as an opportunity cost, by using it as a discount of some kind, in order to keep customers loyal.

Right now, though, it is working in the opposite direction: the knowledge that they are liable to lose a substantial percentage of customers in the coming year is an incentive to keep prices high, in order to cover the cost of the multiple $100-a-shot losses that they know will occur.

Somehow I don't believe that nailing down a few thousand customers for a period as short as a year, is going to excite them that much.

But, as I said, you may well be right.

The reality is, though, that the amount of churn is an indicator more of an immature market than anything else. Once it settles down, and people understand better what they are actually signing up for, prices will become keener.

Why do you think the cost of gas fired to make steam for the generators will be more costly than coal fired. Gas could be used on the boilers now, probably can't shut one down long enough to change over.

Thanx Pericles... interesting insights.

I might..or... might not be correct in my market understanding.

Still, in the final analysis, I think it's better for consumers to have the bargaining power rather than just be at the mercy of the competitive 'bids' for our wallet contents from the providers themselves. They only have to 'bend' far enough to 'look' more financially attractive.... and only just at that.

The power table must be turned around to us rather than them.

If they have 7c in the dollar (Yabby) 'profit' that would be a $140,000,000 profit on a turnover of 2billion. Not too shabby.
If we reduced that to 5c it would give us 2c/$ lower cost. On a bill of $1200/yr that would save us.. (take a deep breath) $24 :) 4c=$48

But according to 'Choice' the diff between best and worst offerings is 20% so someone's figures (Yabby's I suspect) are a bit off.

If I'm not mistaken...the Energy company's make a LOT of money out of 'trading'.. buying when cheap...selling when expensive..something like that. So.. knowing more about what they do actually make (aside from 'official' estimates of their 'basic' margins) would be helpful.

Can you point me in the right direction to find out more ? I can't for the life of me find 'Annual Reports' for Truenergy..

On those figures, Boaz, you simply don't have a business.

>>If they have 7c in the dollar (Yabby) 'profit' that would be a $140,000,000 profit on a turnover of 2billion. Not too shabby.
If we reduced that to 5c it would give us 2c/$ lower cost. On a bill of $1200/yr that would save us.. (take a deep breath) $24 :) 4c=$48<<

Your margin figure is wrong. If you offer $48 p.a. savings to your customer base, that comes off the revenue line as well as the profit line.

So with an average bill of $1,200, your power company has 1.67million customers. Give back $48 each, revenue becomes $1.92 bn. Costs remain the same at $1.86bn, your profit is now $60m, net margin is therefore 3c in the dollar, not 4c.

That would send the shareholders scurrying for the exits, for sure.

>>But according to 'Choice' the diff between best and worst offerings is 20% so someone's figures (Yabby's I suspect) are a bit off.<<

There is no correlation whatsoever between "best and worst offerings" and net profits, I'm afraid. Each provider will have a mix of tariffs that average themselves out into a final yield amount. Not everyone will be on the lowest tariff - for a start, it might be one that ties you in for three years.

And that's the fundamental flaw in your buying-group concept. $4 a month is a cup of coffee (well, it is here in Sydney), and is not really a "must have" saving.

Especially when you have the chicken-and-egg problem to resolve.

In order to bring people into your scheme, you need to have negotiated, ahead of time, a specific deal that is attractive enough to bring them into the fold. But in order to establish your "group discount" with the power company, you need to have a specific number of people signed up to your scheme.

There's simply not enough slack in the existing system to make a go of it, I'm afraid.

Don't let that put you off scheming, though. It's what being in business is all about.

*If they have 7c in the dollar (Yabby) 'profit' that would be a $140,000,000 profit on a turnover of 2billion. Not too shabby.*

Boaz, the 7c in the dollar figure I quoted was over all of
Origin's businesses. Retailing power is only a section of that.
It's in their gas where there is potential. But to get a fair
judgement of how a company is running, take a look at return
on equity or money invested.

In the case of Origin, they have 8 billion $ worth of assets.
So 600 million$ profit is just a little more then bank interest.
Given the risk involved, its hardly remarkable, for you could
just as easily stick in the the bank at 7%.

Companies do in fact care about customers, for without them,
there would be no business. You'll find that companies who
do focus on their customers, in fact do alot better in the
marketplace.

But of course we also have plenty of customers who want
everything for nothing, no matter what it costs, they want
it even cheaper.

So there needs to be a balance between customers, shareholders
who risk their hard earned savings and staff who need to be
paid fairly for their contribution to the business.

That is commonly easier said then done.

A Hearty thanks to both Yabby and Pericles for those insights!

Isn't it wonderful when we all worktogether to achieve a result :)

I'll try to digest it all over the next few days. I don't expect that suddenly the earth is going to shake as an outcome, but it does make interesting explorations.

I'm off to the Mind Body Spirit Festival today for my annual spiritual 'punch up' with various Jihadi's, Witches, Fortune Tellers and Psychics.
My prayer... just in case you might wonder :) is this "Lord, help me to seek to win the heart, not the argument" of course 'winning arguments' is what OLO is about...and that's why I take that approach.
OLO is about issues... meeting people in person requires a more mellow approach.
It's amazing how much people open up during quiet conversations. What amazes me though is how many seem to open up even to those charging them a truckload of money ! ! $80 for a 20min 'chalk drawing' of any one of a number of pre-rehearsed 'spirit guide' images.... amazing stuff.

One of the psychics actually ripped into me last time for making the point that we DON'T charge anything, and that because we are ideologically 'agin' most of what's there... we don't deserve a spot. *nice*.

Sort of reminds me of where things are headed .... such as this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325311/Gay-rights-laws-danger-freedoms-Bishops-speak-homosexuality.html

If reported accurately, the council TELLING them they must say "homosexual behaviour is ok"... it would be Marcusian 'repression' of the worst kind. The council should BUTT OUT of peoples religious freedom. I rather doubt that this couple are goind to have daily 'anti gay' indoctrination for any foster child. It simply doesn't come up in normal Christian discourse. But if asked a question "Is being gay ok?" they should be free to answer according to their convictions, and direct the question to the ACT(behavior) rather than perceived orientation.
I know..off topic :)

Come one..come all (if in melbourne) look for a Christian stand :) Jeffs shed.

Errrr.... what "result" might that be, Boaz?

>>Isn't it wonderful when we all worktogether to achieve a result :)<<

If the result is that you decide that your scheme will not get off the ground, that's great. Yabby and I have saved you a great deal of pain and money.

My fee for this service is 15% of the savings, by the way.

What do you reckon that would amount to, Yabby?

*What do you reckon that would amount to, Yabby?*

Ah Pericles, not even Boaz would have enough bibles to sell, to
pay that kind of amount, so I'd say your services will
remain a charitable donation.

What amuses me is how well he will fit in with the psychics,
tarot readers, voodoo preachers and the rest. Same principle,
different cult really.