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The Forum > General Discussion > Record number of asylum seekers arrive while Julia's off shore processing gets the cold shoulder.

Record number of asylum seekers arrive while Julia's off shore processing gets the cold shoulder.

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http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2010/s3057133.htm

What is frustrating is that after promising tough action on asylum seekers, Julia Gillard has not taken a single step to discourage them, in fact quite the opposite. At the behest of the greens, the detention conditions have been relaxed.

As far as the off shore processing center is concerned, other than a chat or two to various Presidents the diplomatic activity is virtually nil. Two months down the line, and there is no evidence of any intention to actually keep her election promise, as that might jeopardize her relations with the greens.

Apart from winning the support of the independents to form government, Julia Gillard has failed to deliver a single policy win since toppling Rudd, and seems to feel that if she ignores the asylum seekers the public will forget.

This is not going to happen.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 4 November 2010 3:08:38 PM
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I am glad to see that the government are showing a little compassion to these people. This is Australia and apparently we are caring and decent people, so it is a relief that after a decade of treating these most unfortunate people like the scum of the earth we are showing a conscience. children don't belong in prison.
As for the real problem here, being people smuggling i have to agree SM. The concept of a regional processing centre involving the countries that have an interest in this problem was a good one. But as you point out we have had the gross total of nothing done about it other than some tokenisms by Julia. We are somewhat in a policy vacuum at the moment, i wonder what back room deals are going on?
Posted by nairbe, Friday, 5 November 2010 6:36:01 AM
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The Labor Government has the remedy to the down-turn in tourism to Australia, Asylum seekers & a large %age of non-genuine refugees. Let's print some brochures to send over to the swamp-the-world with muslims countries. Surely there has to be some very short-term benefit ?
Posted by individual, Friday, 5 November 2010 6:45:45 AM
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Nairbe your opinion that “the concept of a regional processing centre involving the countries that have an interest in this problem was a good one," is a flawed one.

No other nation around us has "an interest" as you so succinctly put it to the extent we do. The fact that these illegal’s enter these countries legally with passport and travel documents mean that the issue of illegality does not surface until they overstay their visas, and they don't, they move onto the boats and then to Australia.

Half of our population is the product of first and second generation Australians from the past 50 years, so compassion for those who need a stable, flourishing, safe home is not new, we were compassionate, we are still compassionate, but we have a population half filled with imbeciles who spout the rhetoric of the fashionable and compassion runs second to political ideology.
Posted by sonofgloin, Friday, 5 November 2010 7:39:00 AM
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Shadow, I imagine that blackmail by preferenced parties may well be the driving force behind this issue; unless Gillard will prove she will take a stand; after all, it would be prioritizing political tactics and the will of party "allies" than the will of the actual voters.

Niarbe- I imagine the loss of compassion comes from the consideration of how much compassion was shown to us by some of our more extreme recent refugee arrivals over the past couple of decades, and unwillingness anymore to make room for people who would only reward us with hostility, crime and religious fanaticism.

Prove to the electorate that such people are going to be effectively barred regardless of otherwise refugee stance, I'm sure everyone would be more compassionate to the rest indeed.
Of course, if you were to lie and do nothing- then everyone would demand a blanket ban to be safe, knowing that the government cannot be trusted to impose these standards.
Posted by King Hazza, Friday, 5 November 2010 9:11:08 AM
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no wonder hotel/motel rates are climbing. Many owners are making a mint from this totally incompetent Government.
Posted by runner, Friday, 5 November 2010 10:09:13 AM
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"Asylum seekers & a large %age of non-genuine refugees."

How would you know whether they they are genuine or not? You wouldn't have the faintest idea.

Actually the issue is not compassion versus genuineness.

The issue is that those urging compassion are urging policies that force everyone else to pay for their values.

The solution is to require those advocating "compassion" to foot the bill. In other words, those who want to, can sponsor as many as they want.

If they resist, it means it's not about compassion at all, it's all about their desire to preen themselves on how wonderfully caring they are - at others' expense.

I welcome refugees and would happily sponsor some myself.

Also, it is disingenuous to urge the government to turn the boats back. The reason they are coming onshore is because *we* have signed a treaty saying we won't return them if they make their claim onshore without first assessing their claim.

They are merely taking us at our word. If we don't want to keep our word, we should have the honesty to withdraw from the Convention, not turn the boats back.
Posted by Jefferson, Friday, 5 November 2010 3:55:38 PM
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Nairbe says: This is Australia and apparently we are caring and decent people,...

Mate... the way things are now is evidence that we are stupid gullible people who don't know one end of a political scam from the other.

Immigration is ALways about 'votes'...and very little to do with compassion. (no matter how they posture themselves.)

SOLUTION (Shadow Minister...listen up)

CHARGE THE CAPTAINS AND CREWS WITH PEOPLE SMUGGLING AND JAIL THEM FOR 10 YRS AND ADVERTIZE IT FARRRRR AND WIDE IN INDONESIA.

I think that will stop the boats.

Nothing else will.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Friday, 5 November 2010 6:55:59 PM
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An interesting article in yesterday’s Australian newspaper:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/agents-promise-tamils-boats-to-australia/story-e6frg6so-1225948082054
Note these points:
--“it was the first case in recent times of asylum-seekers leaving from South India for Australia”.
--“Counter-terrorism expert Rohan Gunaratna told the paper that Australia and Canada were rated by the Tigers as 'the two softest countries'".
(It is particularly interesting since it’s occurring at a time when the UN is facilitating the return of refugees to Sri Lanka http://www.unhcr.org/4c657ec69.html )

And here’s another angle:
“ According to Canada's Attorney-General, Rob Nicholson, 63,000 refugees ordered to be deported are still in the country and 41,000 have gone missing.”

Highly pertinent because we are being told, almost daily, that the humane thing to do would be to release the illegal’s into the Australian community while their applications are being processed --- OF COOOOURSE THEY WOUNDN’T ABSCOND!
“41,000 have gone missing”
“41,000 have gone missing”
“41,000 have gone missing”

Agree with Jefferson –withdraw from the convention. I suspect once one nation does, there would be a stampede for the doors
—and a commensurate DECREASE in the number of unsolicited phone calls, like this: “Hello my name is Amin -- I am a refugee, and I am calling you from off Ashmore Reef on my Iphone --please send your patrol boat to rescue me”
Posted by Horus, Saturday, 6 November 2010 7:03:25 AM
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Runner when people have whinged to me in regard to the amount the government spends on welfare every fortnight I consider how lucky we are to get a cash injection into the economy every two weeks, even if it is taxpayer money. The sobering part for me in regard to the Motel owners getting full occupancy via the illegals is that it is being paid for with borrowed money. This government is still 90 billion in debt.
Posted by sonofgloin, Saturday, 6 November 2010 10:29:21 AM
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whether they they are genuine or not? You wouldn't have the faintest idea.
Jefferson,
I'm not proclaiming to have vast experience in this but I have the experience of speaking with a people smuggler or rather transporter. This chap told me that, albeit in rather broken english, on a beach in a country north of Australia that he had done 4 trips to the west coast of Cape York with illegals who each paid him more than he could earn as a fisherman in three years. As far as I could deduce he didn't consider them as poor refugees. On his return trips he'd been detained at both Weipa & Nhulunbuy, received full medical, got money whilst detained & then deported at no cost. He told me with a grin from ear to ear that the loss of the boat is calculated into the risk assessment hence only worn-out boats are used.
A local fishing guide at Cape York told me some 12-15 years ago that whilst camped at a northern river he saw a large-ish boat with quite a few people on board sail south into the Gulf during a wet season rain squall very close to the beach. The same afternoon an unusual looking powerboat with only three occupants was speeding north. Several days later there was an oil slick along the beach.
I think that although I have not the faintest idea, as most other australians I think that the denialists have even less of a faintest idea, they have none.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 6 November 2010 12:58:05 PM
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Quite simple really.
Individual tells us he knows every thing his opponents nothing.
Discussion ends, or is it evidence Indy has a problem.
I understand its under 6.000 in 12 months, actually would rather not one but not by drowning them or shooting them.
NOTE early in that post Indy told us, he does not know it all, then told the rest of us he was Right in any case, opinions are often a window.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 6 November 2010 2:09:35 PM
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Belly,
i did not say that those disagreeing know nothing. I am saying that the denialists aren't weighing others' views. The denialists may well be of a majority but that doesn't make them opponents in everything. I have considered the views of those whom I don't agree with on grounds of me actually being & thinking outside the square.
Am I to understand that trying to prevent this country from being overtaken by stealth with people whom not only I suspect to come by agenda rather than need is opposing my responsibilty as a citizen ?
Don't for one moment forget that as soon as the thinking individuals in our authorities find another way of getting ahead of the smugglers, they too find new tactics.
btw. Do you know of drowning or shooting fatalities due to australian action ?
You're right Belly opinions are windows but you still can't see anything in the room when the curtains are drawn so as not having to see what's going on outside..
Posted by individual, Saturday, 6 November 2010 2:47:44 PM
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Rich ALGORE suggests that we should...

<< CHARGE THE CAPTAINS AND CREWS WITH PEOPLE SMUGGLING AND JAIL THEM FOR 10 YRS AND ADVERTIZE IT FARRRRR AND WIDE IN INDONESIA.

He says;

<< I think that will stop the boats. Nothing else will.>>

Yes I think that this will probably do the trick, or at least cut down the number of boats to a much smaller rate, and quickly.

At any rate, if there was the will within the government, the issue could be easily dealt with.

By crikey, if it is not dealt with decisively by the next election, Labor will be out on their ear, Abbott will a shoe-in and the Greens will be history.

We've just simply GOT TO tackle the issue of asylum seekers head-on and decisively.

So, currently it seems that Gillard is being held to ransom by the Greens over this issue.... assuming that she really does desire to deal decisively with the problem as she said she would when she took up the prime-ministership.

And surely the Greens can see that they are very strongly alienating the majority of the Australian voting public by being seen to be facilitating the ongoing, now very regular and increasing rate of arrivals, and that they are going to go down very hard at the next election unless they adapt their policies accordingly.

The answer?

Well, what if the Greens were to simply agree with Gillard, and Abbott, that onshore asylum seeking has to stop.... in exchange for a much-improved input into refugee and international aid issues through our formal programs, including a somewhat larger intake of the most needy refugees.

Vastly more people could be helped if we did this, and it would be aimed at desperate people who really need assistance.

With the same sort of expenditure (or considerably smaller) that we are now putting into dealing with onshore asylum seekers, we could help probably five times as many people in greater need.

This is so simple and obvious ... isn't it?
Posted by Ludwig, Monday, 8 November 2010 1:41:58 PM
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If we have an orderly and fair list of asylum seekers then as the boats arrive we should take all their details down and tell each of them where they stand in the queue, what their number is etc.. That may mean keeping them in detention till their number comes up...however long it takes. They will continue to be fed and clothed and have free medical attention and education for all children but will not be allowed to apply for permanent visas or mixing in with the Australian community at large till their number in the queue comes up.

This is being fair to all those African genuine refugees still in asylum camps in parts of Africa. The Afghanis will still be ahead by virtue of being in a safer place and assured of clean drinking water and better food and medical attention and education for their children.

What do you readers think of this plan?
No one intends sending them back where they came from but the African refugee and asylum seekers will feel they are being fairly treated. After all, what is so special with these boat drop-ins that they have a right to tell us what we have to do for them? Is an Afghani worth more than an African?

socratease
Posted by socratease, Monday, 8 November 2010 9:46:42 PM
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Last two posts are interesting.
So here are my thoughts.
Remember we are talking of a total of under 6 thousand, so far more will come.
The form a line idea would be counter productive once here it seems almost sure you will stay,we would need a city sized center.
Greens Ludwig, in my view unfortunately, prosper not die via this debate.
They will grow their vote on this issue not fade away.
A DD election would cut their numbers but keep the balance of power in their hands, maybe.
The rights and wrongs of what I am about to say will have me branded red neck.
But the truth is enough Australians share my view, it is the fact these boat people are Muslims that brings about the concerns,like it or not its true.
Labor under Gillard will not recapture the voters, wish it was not true but it is.
Even if tomorrow both sides got together and said no more boat people send them all home, the Greens would get far more benefit than any one else from it.
Middle to high income day dreamers who never live in contact with enclaves are driving policy's few support, this issue may change the government.
Australians are unhappy both party's must work out a way of controlling this.
Or give sea Worthy boats to millions from allover otherworld looking for a life and let them come.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 9 November 2010 5:21:50 AM
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Actually, Julis has a few more disused camps and centres that she's found all mover Australia. She has a mission to fill them all up. No sense letting them go to rack and ruin. The heritage people dont want them.So Julia aims to put them to good use. There will be at least another20,000 more to accomodate before we see the last of the boats coming.
There's only one way to stop the poor demented woman. That will come in a couple of years.

socratease
Posted by socratease, Tuesday, 9 November 2010 1:50:27 PM
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I love socratese's argument. At the moment, some people like to claim that the boat people aren't queue jumpers, because there is no queue. The government should create a queue by publishing a list of people awaiting settlement here. Every time a boat arrives and are accepted as refugees, we would know exactly who is missing out and perhaps a few journalists could tell their stories.
Posted by benk, Tuesday, 9 November 2010 4:25:55 PM
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"LABOR is facing a significant budget blowout on immigration expenses due to a surge in boat arrivals this financial year.

The government allocated $327.5 million for offshore asylum-seeker management over 2010-11 based on an estimated 2000 irregular maritime arrivals.

Since July 1, however, 45 boats carrying 2229 passengers have arrived, with no additional operational budget provisions outlined in the mid-year economic and fiscal outlook. Since January 1, 118 boats have brought in 5654 asylum-seekers."

So with the numbers of asylum seekers tripling, we are looking at spending nearly $1000 000 000 per year on this issue. That is about $100 p.a. for every working adult that is paid for Labor's failed policy.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 10 November 2010 4:50:35 AM
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Regarding Julia Gillard's policies and Labor's Coalition with the Greens the process of government is rather delicate in the view that
both the Greens and Independents have a right and expect to be heard. Therefore anticipating instant miracles from a government in a delicate situation would not be expedient.

Let us give due time and patience and the opportunity for the Gillard government to work its way through the restraints of a Coalition and in due course (usually at least two full terms in office) to achieve their election promises.

The Howard government was given eleven years by the people of Australia to fulfill its promises and finally gave up when no more miracles were evident.
Posted by Lexi, Wednesday, 10 November 2010 4:48:25 PM
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Lexi,

How is the promise of No carbon tax this term going? Is Labor struggling to implement it or are they simply doing the opposite?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 12 November 2010 12:39:21 PM
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We know what the government is currently doing - regarding carbon emissions - and we are waiting for the outcome of the conclusions to be reached by all participating interested parties in the discussion.

However we do not know what the Liberal Party proposes as an alternative, perhaps you can enlighten us?
Posted by Lexi, Friday, 12 November 2010 1:24:18 PM
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'I am glad to see that the government are showing a little compassion to these people.'
Posted by nairbe, Friday, 5 November 2010 6:36:01 AM

The compassion we show to those refugees who buck the system is at the expense of those refugees who do not or cannot due to lack of funds.

This compassion for those who buck the system also feeds into the illegal immigrant trading market.

My compassion goes out to those thousands of souls who are doing the right thing by waiting in humanitarian camps across the globe as their claim is processed. I wish them well and a speedy resolution so that their life can begin again in a nation not war torn or environmentally ravaged.

If only we could work more quickly to resolve these issues. Maybe then the illegal trade of leaky boats to desperate souls with zero tolerance of humanitarian camps would be less tolerated and afforded less sympathy.

I also think we need to reduce the amount of immigrants we take in and increase the amount of refugees by that number of immigrants reduced.
Posted by George Jetson, Sunday, 14 November 2010 11:20:33 AM
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Lexi,

Actually the coalition have been perfectly clear what they intend to do.

1- No carbon tax until at least the major economies have established a system,
2- Invest in energy conservation measures, and subsidize low GHG emission technologies.

This is based on the assumption that whatever Australia does on its own has almost zero effect without the major players involved, and any carbon tax will disadvantage Australian industry and increase the cost of living.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 14 November 2010 4:15:22 PM
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