Could we mix some cyanide with that crow.

merv09 >>. It has gone well past the stage of accusing the Labor, Liberal or the LNP, It is all of them. I can see no sign of intelligence in the manner of their pursuing – any of them<<

Well said merv, their is no nationalism or vision for OUR nation from any of them. They are but painted ships on a painted ocean, they go nowhere fastened by a global economic caliphet and the lie that is globalization.

Merv09, I've read your points before, about returning to the good
old 50s to 70s, which you view with nostalgia.

There are in fact good reasons not to. The world has changed.

Australia rode on the sheeps back then and eventually the sheep
collapsed from all the weight. Keating was correct, we were heading
for being a banana republic.

Its a complex argument, but I'll try and keep the points as brief
as possible.

If we increase the tax on the rich, as you suggest, the rich can
afford to simply move elsewhere, be it Hong Kong, Singapore or
wherever. Lets take Maquarie Bank. They don't need to be based
in Sydney, it could be anywhere. The people who work there, pay
a huge amount of tax. Charge them too much, you will get no tax
at all. Capital today is global, it moves easily.

Secondly, manufacturing today is increasing specialised, with
specialised machinery, huge investments and volume of scale required.
So to make say a computer locally, might force you as a consumer to
pay 10'000$. Could you still afford to buy one?

If the poor were forced to buy Australian made clothes, shoes etc,
do you think they could still afford to dress their children?

So we've gone to market economics, as part of the global market.
Consumers have had a huge benefit, with better and cheaper products.
Real wages have increased too. Australians are better off then
ever before.

Houses are more expensive, but that is political, not economic.
To build a house is not the problem, land release to do so is,
as town planners try to force us into high density living, rather
then urban sprawl. Australia is not short of land, yet today its
by far the biggest cost in buying a house

You make it sound so wonderful Yabby, but what your failing to tell people is that your utopia is only possible because of the exploitation of workers in other countries and the removal of personal freedoms from the poor here to better themselves.

In your world it's ok to have people(Including children) working for nothing and being beaten for not performing with no protection so that you can buy a cheap computer.

I'm starting to wonder what moral compass you might be following.
I wonder, have you ever visited an industrial area in Asia?

It's not quite like that I'm afraid, RawMustard.

>>...what your failing to tell people is that your utopia is only possible because of the exploitation of workers in other countries<<

Lifting half a billion people out of poverty can hardly be described as exploitation, surely?

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90883/6961967.html

and

http://content.undp.org/go/newsroom/2010/november/helen-clark-africa-china-poverty-reduction-and-development-conference.en

China is the country that has predominantly been providing us with the cheap products that have allowed us to continue our pampered existence. And they seem to have benefitted from doing so, wouldn't you say?

>>...and the removal of personal freedoms from the poor here to better themselves.<<

Not sure I follow you on that one, what freedoms are you referring to?

>>In your world it's ok to have people(Including children) working for nothing and being beaten for not performing with no protection so that you can buy a cheap computer.<<

In your world, it is ok to have people (including children) go short of clothes, food - and computers, of course - for absolutely no discernible purpose.

>>I'm starting to wonder what moral compass you might be following. I wonder, have you ever visited an industrial area in Asia?<<

Yes, I have.

The people work very hard there, and earn enough to feed their families, and even start to think about buying some of the luxuries that we have taken for granted for so long. Like a car. And a TV. And a computer.

Here's another thing, RawMustard.

They are immensely proud of what their country has achieved since joining the world economy some thirty years ago.

And in my book, they have every right to be.

I'm sorry Pericles, but I've heard that song before and the tune is kinda off. And your links are nothing but spin, one from a man with the integrity of a snake oil salesman and the other from an organisation full of social misfits hell bent on controlling the world.

I understand the position your arguing from and to that I agree, but it's not how it's playing out and it's not what I have seen with my own eyes and experienced with my own being.

I've dealt with multinationals in both China, and the Philippines and I can tell you that their wish to lift poor people out of poverty was the last thing on their minds. These giants had no time for improving working conditions of their workers and did everything they could (together with support of their governments) to prevent workers from organising and protesting their human rights. It was all about keeping the status quo and creating riches for a select few.

It was really easy for them to show that's not how they work. They subcontract out the dirty bits to smaller, more slimier operators not in the lime light and thereby creating the illusion they're all squeaky clean.

I don't need to supply links on this topic to back my stance. As I've said, I've been there and experienced it for myself. I even lived in the Philippines for a year to get an operation up and running. In the end I pulled out I was so appalled at their attitudes towards their workers and anyone they felt was beneath them.

cont...