Within families, who are struggling the most with grocery prices; people within Towns, Country Towns, Country Cities, and/or Cities?

As Yabby pointed out some time ago on threads, Australians he feels, have the choice or option of free/open markets regarding a wide range of products and services. In many respects Yabby is correct.

However, in relation to purchasing meat, fruit veg and groceries, there appears to be thousands of families struggling and suffering over the past two years; this year being the hardest hit on families.

Could people offer some [sensible] suggestions to Australian families that may currently assist them while enduring the hardships trying to keep their heads above water paying utilities/bills rent and mortgages?

Kindest regards

We Are Unique.

we are unique,
It is an interesting subject you pose. I live in a rural area and have three children, over the past two years my food bill has only increased by about $20 per fortnight. This was easily achieved by simply not shopping at the big two. A good example is that i needed some peanut butter the other day and slipped into woolies because it was convenient. The peanut butter may have been about 5 cents cheaper than my usual shop but i noticed fruit and veg. Potato's were $1.50 a kilo dearer and apples a scary $2.00 a kilo dearer. Shop smart don't complain that you are being ripped off as it really is ourselves that rip us off with out ineptitude.
The only area that really hurts is my power bill. I lowered my phone bill by getting a prepaid mobile but the power has gone up and i don't see any positive in it. Apparently it is to pay for the upgrading of the network but we will see. I only see it going higher as the push for a carbon price intensifies. After living on solar for 10 years before having the power connected i am regretting the decision.
Other bills have not been to bad either, fuel cost has been steady for a while now but the state gov slipped up rego, car maintenance has edged up marginally but as always everything depends on whether you are prepared to shop around. i have changed many of my suppliers in the last two years as they simply got greedy. We can all pressure these companies by not shopping there. they will drop their prices if their business is falling, but when coles and woolies are increasing their profits and turnover we are clearly not getting it. Seems we just expect the Government to do something so we don't have too. Lazy is what we are.

As nairbe has also stated, stop buying from companies that gouge you.
Those big two are a disgrace, there are alternatives that allow huge savings. We have reduced our weekly shopping bill back to 1990 prices by shopping smart and the food is fresher and better for us and most is Aussie made to boot!.

Nairbe You can cut phone costs even more by going voip, on your mobile and landline. [ vtel mobile + faktortel land line, ] No service fees/pay for calls only. 1.2c/min uk. 8 cent local calls. 28c/min long dist; My bill $5/mth land line.

I think that Woolies and Coles, overall provide pretty good value
for money actually. They face enormous costs the whole way,
from payroll tax to staff superannuation, to rising electricity
costs.

In fact the financials show that Coles works on roughly 3c in the
Dollar of actual profit, hardly a rip off. Their wages bill is
6 times as much.

If you look at the journey, say a tin of pineapple travels. First it
must be grown for months, transported, sliced, canned, shipped to
the store, through the checkout, all using expensive labour and
expensive machinery.
All for around 3$ or whatever. I think that is great value.

3 $ won't even buy me a cup of coffee in Perth. How much of your
time can I buy for 3$, RawMustard?

I recommend ALDI's stores as a cheaper alternative to the 'Big Two'. They mostly stock their own brands which we find to be of good quality and some what cheaper than the name brands in the bigger shops. We also shop for fruit veg and fish at 'the markets' where things are fresher and with plenty of sellers one can save 50% on the supermarket price.
Some prices are Aldi milk 2Lt $2.09, bread $1.09, at the markets oranges $0.99c/kg. there are lots of savings if you shop around, my partner is a real bargain hound, she can sniff out value from 5 miles away, and she has no shame when it come to a 'bit of haggling' must be the Maori in her, she always says to me "I know from being a kid growing up in NZ what a dollars worth!" LOL.

WE recently had an Aldi open in our nearby town.

I do like their range of stuff, & a number of things about their system, but don't be fooled, they are not fairy godmothers.

One thing I have noticed is the size thing. Many of their pack sizes are 10, 50 or 100Gm smaller than that of brand name stuff at the IGA. The same goes for the big 2, with store brands.

One thing that one of the big 2 is doing to annoy me is their change to own brand stuff. I have found quite a bit of the private brand stuff is not to my taste, & am developing quite a resistance to having it forced on me.

I have recently left a half full trolley at the checkout, advising them that as I can no longer get what I want I'll have none thanks.

I hope they enjoyed putting it all back. That was my usual $220 or so fortnightly shopping they did not get, & it's likely to happen more often, as I get older & crankier.

At least they now know that if I can't get something that I have bought for years, because they want a few more cents mark up, on a store brand product, they will loose a couple of hundred, & have the joy of unloading a trolley.

when i buy..i buy mostly plain-lable...also avoid pre-packaged
[with the exception of frozen-beans and frozen-corn]that are more conveniant..to simply store/ready to go,..in the freezer]

buy veg late sunday..is another trick..[they mostly go to the markets on monday]..so often..they are trying to move all the stuff..out late sunday..to get ready..for monday

also cheaper..is near closing time..much is reduced to clear..
[this is common/with things like..cooked-chickens/meat/bread]

although..i can usually get chicken-legs or thighs..for arround 2 to 3 dollars a kg...at the butcher[big-guns]
http://www.biggun.com.au/pdf/vicpoint.pdf

they have basic mince 5 kg for 15..[but its fatty..[i use the fat for deepfrying]..potatoes are better/by the bag[bulk]..same re carrots[these are best..from the market..

sometimes the fruit..and veg person can cut a..'deal'..on bulk

not to be scoffed..at is bin-raiding..[like those afore mentioned cooked chickens..hit the bin...if they dont get sold/at reduced price]..

but you find them..often locked..after closing..so those with a thick-hide..check them out..before..they lock them...[this was more in canberra]..havnt been desperate enough..to do it here..[yet]

many fruit-veg..give stuff away..
[if you ask them for scraps..'for the guinnie-pigs']

as im..'one'..i find cooking a big pain...[and 'easy'..fast-food is expensive food]..in winter i make up a stew..[put portions in take-away containers...and keep them in the fridge]..ending up with 18/20..meals for arround 5 bucks..[just heat and eat]

when i buy the fatty mince...i usually buy-up big on potatoes..enjoying chips...i used to add..in a few fishfingers...and mini dimsims..[arround 3 bucks kg..and that makes 15 meals]

left-overs make good soups...breakfast you cant beat..the homemade mix..of sultantas/crushed vitabrits...and plenty of rolled oats...and some fresh fruit...

i buy plain-lable..bread..[$1.20]..with an egg and some $4.99 bacon[from pattons]...its cheap eating

AVOID sweets...by the time/you add-up..the KG/price..your paying 10/20 a killogram..theres a reason there sold in small packets...

[think of the quality fruit..you could be bying..for that cost]

...bying one of each of..a few vegetables..costs less than bying..that fancy gourme..mix....

[this rule applies to..just about any prepackaged stuff]..[make your own nut-mix..or dried/fruit-mix,..or breakfast cerial]...etc

make your own custard/jellies etc..
SR-flour...makes great pancakes...or just about any other pastry...cakes..etc

Hasbeen, I don't know if its common in your area but W and C are great ones now for forcing you to buy more with 2 for $5 or 1 for $3,59. Which does not help those on a budget or like us just need the 'one'.
Some years ago a friend of mine owned a peanut butter business, actually he was the first in Australia to have a machine to extract more of the oil from the stuff, remember how oily peanut butter was. He put in this new plant when he landed a contract to supply Woolies with his brand, it was a good seller, unfortunately as soon as the contract was up. Woolies sent him a letter advising that as they had 5 suppliers of peanut butter they would be cutting that back to 3, now give us your rock bottom price deal and you might be a winner. He lost the contract, and as he said if your product is not with W and C your may well be history.

oh i forgot..the big money saver is turning off the hotwater heater..and getting a pushbike..[no rego..no traffic fines no parking revenue raising]

other things that help is if traveling far to work...rent your house out...and rent nearer to your workplace..[then you get all them tax deductions,..only investers seem to get]

i stopped bying..new.,i now by half price at cash-conveters...do it youself is a big key...make a list of stuff you need to throw-out of your fridge...ban bying any more of that you arnt using

before going to the check out..go through whats in your cart
make it a rule..to but back at least one expensive item..each time

my web acces is via a 12 month plan
[i ran out of gig's in the 3rd month..but so far so good..its still working..after 10 mths..if its slow...my computer cant tell the difference]

learn to grow your own
or brew your own...[avoid the kits]
learn to make do..and turn off everything thats using any current

enjoy cold showers...i know its not worth 100 bucks just to have a warm one...avoid auto deductions...especially avoid creditcards..allways ask for a dicount...[remember shareholders get discounts..so a few shares with your suppliers could pay-off]

first think repair..[re-use...not reCYCLE..recycle is break a bottle to make a new bottle]...create a budget and stick withit...dont spend much on clothing...[cotten growers are destroying the earth]...

avoid soy..they are destroying the 3 rd world...avoid palm-oil...[and es[pecially ethinol..make a conscience list..

of things you refuse to buy ON PRINCIPLE*..
[this can save heaps]

The "only" people who are missing out are the people who don't have access to a Coles supermarket or a Woollies supermarket.

These 2 monopolies have provided us with Australia's CHEAPEST grocery prices in our nation's history.

Go back to the 1800s, most people couldn't even remotely afford groceries, in fact "groceries" barely even existed. Let's move on to the early 1900s .... corner grocery stores began their journey into our society; we could now buy regular supplies of the basics like flour, bread, sugar but the cost was "premium". Let's go to the 1950s .... by now we had larger corner grocery stores, and more of them, and the range was increasing slightly beyond the "basics"; because these stores were small, family run businesses prices were VERY high. Now onto 1959 to 2010 .... in the late 50s Woollies opened their very first Australian supermarket and within 10 years Coles and Woollies were EVERYWHERE; prices IMMEDIATELY came down. The more stores that Coles and Woollies opened, the greater was their bulk buying power, and the prices continued their rapid downward spiral. Now it's 2010 and over the past few years we've been enjoying the lowest overall prices regarding the total cost of food that we've ever had in our nation's history.

And all because of the 2 supermarket monopoly.

Grocery prices are low low low!

We should stop our whinging (an Aussie pastime), and be grateful.

Yes, Aldi suits some, but not all. They are owned by two of the
world's richest men, a couple of Germans, although I gather one died
recently.

Coles and Woolies are largely owned by Australian Superannuation funds, so most posters here would own a stake in them.

Aldi has a simple formula. Minimum products (700 or so),
minimum staff, minimum everything. Pack your own groceries,
bring back your own trolley, etc. Work your staff to the limit.

That suits some people, personally I prefer the variety and prefer
to see the profits of my shopping stay in Australia. But each
to their own.

I think what is lacking is a proper budget.
I don't know how many HASBEEN is feeding but. i and my wife have a grocery bill each fortnight of $80. We find that sufficent.
We used to go to C or W until the budget started to get a squeeze, but now do 90% of groceries at Aldi.
For people on a fixed income a budget is first priority.

Farmers markets are pretty good, some prices a bit higher and some a bit lower coming straight from the grower without the middleman. The food is usually fresher and mostly organic. And you know for sure your money is staying in Australia.

Aldi promote the fact that one of every product is sourced from Australia but it is foreign owned, Woolies/Coles are Australian owned and over time are stocking more and more foreign imports as well as the odd Australian product. Thist trend will probably grow rather than cease or stabilise. The foreign imports do not make food cheaper rather create more money for the shareholders. The first legal obligations for companies are shareholders not consumers and where there is little competition there is no other mechanism. We also lose control over the food chain or what is used from soil to table including some very nasty chemicals used at import point.

Best way to save money in the long term is to grow your own veg where practicable and climate allowing. We have not bought carrots for over a year and there are many veg that are year round such as lettuce, leeks, all the brassicas (brocolli, cauli, brussels, cabbage), peas, onions and garlic which can be stored all year. Growing seasonal veg is also worthwhile as you can move from beans in the summer to broad beans and peas in the cooler months.

Once you are set up it is not as time consuming as you might think.

We have recently been buying vegetables and fruit at a farmers market
that only operates once a week unfortunately.
The cost seems to work out at between half and 2/3 the large greengrocer shop.
The produce seems good, and I suspect some of his produce must come
from the markets as they don't grow bananas near here.
Anyway the quality seems fine, and I notice that the number of stalls
has increased from three to about twelve in a month or so.
Some have organic produce as their thing, others have other ranges of
bread and bakeries etc.

Farmers markets have become a big thing in the US and Europe.
I was in Ypers in Belgium on a Saturday and the farmers market there
was something to behold. A delicatessen was one and it was built into
a large truck body. It had fold up sides which showed an interior
just like a deli anywhere.
There were many farmers there, they display their farms name and address
so that you can go their farm as well. There must have been at least
ten vegetable and fruit stalls.
It really was very impressive and the town square was packed with customers.
And yes there is a supermarket in the town.

The way of the future I think.

Although Woolies and Coles have been around for years it is only in recent times that they have gone into competition with each other for yonks they had an unwritten agreement that if I was in on suburb you wont open a store in competition. For those that don't shop at Aldi there has been a win you will find where there is an Aldi store the local W and/or C stores will lower their prices (house brands) on Staples bread, milk marg etc to match Aldi.
The point that Aldi products are often smaller than name brands I'm not sure about that. I do know that many well known brands, have over time reduced the quantity (and quality) of their product by introducing new packaging eg. sauce was in 300ml bottle now 250ml and up the price at the same time, a bit of a double whammy for the consumer!

Budgeting is nothing new working family's have given up some foods before.
My mob gave up butter due to its price half my lifetime ago.
Meat is getting hard and some veg's but with planning we can get by.
I however am luckier than some own my home and have more fruit than I can give away.
Putting the garden back in now work is over and will never be hungry.
If just ten percent of us grew our own we could bring prices down bit tomatoes for sure.

579,
thanks will look into it. I use skype to keep contact with family overseas, this only costs downloads.

Yabby,
Fair enough i don't follow the margins and costs of the big two, but as Paul1405 stated use ALDI. I use them for bulk and caned goods they are much cheaper and good quality. I get all my fresh produce from my local IGA that do their fruit and veg at much lower prices with a lot less buying power than the big two. Fish from my local market and bulk meat from the butcher. All much cheaper than woolies or coles. The difference fortnightly is about $80. In a year that is considerable, in fact it is a camping holiday with the kids each year.

How about gas and electricity? with huge increases due largely to provisions for a carbon tax.

Have a look at Coalition policies you might find the answer there given they were first to come up with an ETS.

You can always go off the grid.

With the penchant both the Libs/Labs have for privatisation we might all have to go self powered. Candle anyone?

Shadow minister,
The increases in gas and electricity are state based increases and are justified as a need to invest into infrastructure. Only liberals claim they have had anything to do with an ets or carbon price. these would simply increase it further.
On of the reasons i went on the grid was to rid myself of the spiralling gas price. Even with the recent increase my power bill is still less than my old costs of gas, fuel for the generator in the work shop and maintenance on the equipment. We have cheap energy in this country but it would be nice if the increases were justified by advances in environmental standards and real costs rather than lack of investment and state government mismanagement.

just to note...re/this infastructure...they are claiming..to be building

its a pipeline..to deliver gas to gladstone..[for export]..!
[govt..serving its mates]..

and another-one.;.heading east..for the coal seam gas..[thats killing the underground water_acces]...as well as poluting it..with benzine/diesal..again for mates

its a neat trick...buying govt..to build things FOR you
[and then slip in..a bit extra..from that ...for their generous public-service..pension/sceme]...

65 billion debt...its insane...[just for qld]
[thats why they shut down..ol barnaby..who tried to talk of it]

and because its..'state-debt'..it doesnt even count as..'sovereign debt'...[yet its still..the people..who must bear the burden]..

hang em high/they collude treason

[and we are in war...the people are just..too dumbed down to know it]

do you have any idea..how much we put on credit-cards?
or if not you...your kids

big crunch comming
why...because all money..is created by lending*
the only way we can pay it back is by lending more

[or by others defaulting THEIR debt]...and re-paying..cents on the dollar...while your savings..get inflated out of egsistance..[not yet...but read the entrails]

assets are overvalued...globally

a billion dollar buyout here...means someone..needs to pay the intrest
[once the bankers stop printing..{easy}credit..on their computers,its game_over...

and each day..spreads the differential
between debt...and the intrest charges...owed

[and even govt must pay intrest..on every penny of spending]

the money..we pay them ...isnt new money...
its repaying the old debt[plus intrest]..

thats how come the 12/bankers..took control of the fed reseve...treasury..and the mint..[were..{ie govt}..is bankrupt]

[ie the snowey-river/ww1-ww2.. war-debt..ord/river...
its all still not paid for...[its that ursury...built-in]

why ya think john howhard..sold telstra for...?
to stash the public/service-supper..safely away...
for when..we all go bust..

just like..the new internet..will never be paid off..[in full]...
we will be in the streets..well before then...
screaming..'no more new taxes'...

[when we should be saying..'take back the control of the fed/mint/treasury...and yet again..issue our own money...

like we did..in the good-ol days...intest free]..debitor pays

by the way...sir joe..had a good point

its time to feed..the chooks
the best ..money-saving trick..there is

[fowl..in the back-yard...eggs...bug-eaters/fertilizer
and eating the young roosters]...

yeah..time to feed...the chooks

*W and C are great ones now for forcing you to buy more with 2 for $5 or 1 for $3,59.*

Paul, they are not forcing you to do anything, but giving you an
opportunity to save. For it costs a supermarket about the same to
put you through the checkout, wether you spend 50$ or 65$, but
their fixed costs are amortised over more goods, so they pass on
that cost saved.

Supermarkets regularly have loss leaders, where they actually lose
money, to attract you through the door. Anyone can run a bit of
a pantry at home and simply buy regular items when they are on
special.

This week Coles had rump at 9.99, I bought extra and stuck it in the
freezer. Toilet rolls at 50c a roll were not bad value either.

The thing is, Samsung is correct. If we analyse things over time,
today people spend something like 10% of average income for food
costs. 60 years ago it was more like half their income. Perhaps
food is now too cheap, for Aussies are commonly becoming too fat.

So let me compare values. Last week I took my 3 mutts to the vet,
for their vaccination. She gave them a worm pill too. The bill
was 300$ for the three. Sheesh, if only I could buy the vaccine,
I could do it for alot less then that.

Yabby "Anyone can run a bit of a pantry at home and simply buy regular items when they are on special." - sure do and love the difference.

I get my meat from Super Butcher, again buying in bulk when they have their best deals. The quality is far beyond what I'd become accustomed to.

I've also got a Golden Circle outlet shop not to far from here. Sometimes some great specials.

R0bert

Strangely, I have only noticed this thread now. The subject has been on my mind a lot lately.

As a single living alone, I have budgeted $50.00 a week for groceries for some time now. It used to be comfortable, but is getting to be a bit of a squeeze these days. As I hate shopping altogether, I play a bit of a game with myself when I shop. I do the adding in my head as I go, and give myself two objectives:

1) come in under $50.00, and
2) avoid paying any more GST than I have to.

The latter isn't as silly as it seems - generally speaking, it forces me to buy fresh stuff rather than the packaged stuff, and healthy food rather than junk. Obviously, I get whacked with things like toothbrushes, deodorant and toilet paper, but I'm fine with that - they are things I need, after all.

Shopping as a single rather than a couple or a family has its own unique set of difficulties. Buying in bulk may be cheaper, but I only have so much room in my freezer for meat, and much of my veg ends up on the compost heap. I have started to run my fridge down to empty before shopping again, so that nothing goes to waste. Lettuce looking a bit tired? Eat it. Tomatoes going soft? Cook 'em and eat 'em. I have found that it is a well-stocked fridge/pantry where things go to waste.

As for the Coles, Woolies and others debate, the only 'all-in-one' alternative to the big 2 I have here in Townsville is IGA which, from experience, doesn't offer that great value for money either. Sure, I could go to the butcher, then to the greengrocer, then to the baker - but if time is money, then I'm spending a lot to save a little. I'm content with Woolies, which is just as well - there are 3 of them in the suburb in which I work. Always room for a little 'grocery game' on the way home!

Australian families will be thanking you all for your fantastic assistance OLOer's.

After all of the joyous rain I have decided to pop in a vegie garden [after ten years] with remaining chook poo in the soil and turn it over a dozen or so times for potatoes, pumpkins, carrots and some salad items. The pumpkins and potatoes next winter hopefully will assist a few families in need of a few basic vegies. [One girlfriend with six kids early twenties down to 8 years old] and she for one will be most grateful!

Kindest wishes to you all!

Yabby I know they are not forcing you to buy 2 for $5 or 1 for $3.59. What I do is buy a similar bread (not the name brand that Woolies have) at Aldi for $2.60 a loaf. IGA who are not a cheap supermarket often have the name brand on special for $2.59. I do think the $3.59 price is very much inflated to, should I say, encourage you to buy 2 and pay $5.
Otokonoko, as a single you are always going to be behind the eight ball when it comes to grocery shopping. Short of joining a bulk buy co-op, and they have there draw backs, "I don't like X brand tomato sauce etc." If you find you are on a tight budget then you have to buy the cheaper cuts, you can do a lot with mince and sausages, don't be afraid to buy just one 'apple' if that's all you need, frozen veg are a good cost saving over fresh if you find you are throwing out fresh stuff. Its a bit of a grind but shop around get the specials in one shop and then go to another to see what they have on special etc. never shop on an empty stomach it might just cost you an extra $20 if you do. Never buy on impulse, never buy just because its cheap. Make the max use of your freezer. Avoid take aways, take your lunch to work. If you budget $50 and spend $45 put the $5 in a jar for Xmas treats. There are many more little thing you can do to save, eg if milk is cheap in 2Lt and its to much for your cuppa tea, then use the extra milk to make a custard or rice pudding, the recipes are on the net, these things are tasty and keep fairly well in the fridge.

Nairbe,

The majority of the rise is based on infrastructure, but about 1/3rd is provision for a future carbon tax over the next few years.

If this is combined with an reduction of food produced in the Murray basin, costs can only go up.

*One girlfriend with six kids early twenties down to 8 years old] and she for one will be most grateful!*

I am sure she will. Mind you, when people make 6 children, don't
they ever consider how they will feed them? A bit of teaching
kids family planning at schools, would not go astray. Even if the
churches protest.

""" How much of your
time can I buy for 3$, RawMustard? """

That depends on whether you're a wholesaler or a retailer and does that include GST?

Yabby, I don't mind a company making an honest living, but I draw the line at being sold a water logged, chemical cocktail as food for 3 times the price of the real thing!

When others can offer the same thing at 1/3rd the price with similar infrastructure, it's a no brainer for me.

If they have to charge more because of their business model, then maybe they need to look at that model huh? Just like you and I have to.

And it surprises me being a farmer that you would defend these scoundrels, they are far from friendly to your type?

great stuff[we are unique]...re the vegie garden
point of caution..watch out..for possums
[most need to put up mesh..to keep the greedy bug-gars out]

with gardens its feast or famine
[we either have too much...[so we trade to with the green grocer]
or too little...and the chooks get the last peck at the roots

chook's is the best think...[but watch out for carpet-snakes...so small mesh is recomended]...i loved my chickens....8 hens..6 eggs everyday

let em out when the kids come home...and lock up the roost at night
[or feed them the dinner peelings and leftovers]

you got the best..chook-do-do...[old stuff]
but not to be ignored is liquefying it...especially for the greens

also ...there is rotation...cycles...[and moon plantings]
i like to rotate peas/beans in between crops...and especially the ols ckoko-vine growing on the chook-run..[pumpkins behind it]..and potatoes in mulch..[in old tyres stacked on top of each other]

thanks for bring out good memories...perma culture...thats great too
and ducks...in a pond with water chestnuts...then the rabbits/goat..yes they were the good times

*but I draw the line at being sold a water logged, chemical cocktail as food for 3 times the price of the real thing!*

Well then don't buy it, RawMustard! OTOH I can show you the overwhelming bulk of goods, that are extremely good value, if you are any way objective in terms of production costs etc. There are far
bigger rip offs in the world then food, which is highly competitive.

Just stop and look at what people put in their trolleys, you'll find
it commonly has a direct relationship to their butts :)

Its not basic ingredients that are expensive. Its all those snack
foods and junk foods, which when you work it out per kg, are
very expensive and usually full of sugar, salt and lard, all in pretty packages. Some people, often those least able to afford them,
live on that stuff.

So all I ask is that supermarkets give me the choice, which coles and
woolies do.

*And it surprises me being a farmer that you would defend these scoundrels, they are far from friendly to your type?*

Why should I lose my objectivity to judge things? As it happens,
Coles and Woolies buy some of the best livestock in the business
and pay some of the highest prices. There are far bigger sharks
in the meat industry then them.

I can also list you a whole lot of industries, that if they were
as competitive as the food sector, we'd all be better off.

Just look at what doctors, lawyers, accountants, mechanics,
electricians, Govt depts and others charge, for services rendered.

Meantime I can go to the supermarket and buy a week's worth of
food, for 50 bucks. That is great value IMHO.

""" Well then don't buy it, RawMustard! """

That's what I said and DO! :)

""" Its not basic ingredients that are expensive. """

Well why does their sliced bread which comes off the same conveyor line cost 2 1/2 times that of other stores?
Not joking Yabby, I've seen them change the bag machine at the bakery from one wrapper to the other and filling it with the same bread!

Anyway, as I said. There are plenty of ways to greatly reduce ones weekly grocery bill and not shopping at the two majors is a huge one :)

*Not joking Yabby, I've seen them change the bag machine at the bakery from one wrapper to the other and filling it with the same bread!*

Exactly RawMustard. That is why supermarkets produce things called
home brands. No need to pay Kellogs a fortune for their name etc.
But Coles bread, its cheap as chips, buy a fancy name, you pay more.
The list goes on. Its not the same for all home brand goods, but
with many. I prefer to have that choice with all items, not have
Aldi tell me what I should be using or what not.

Fact is that Coles turnover is up, more people shopping there, for
good reasons. The place was taken over, management largely fired,
new management starting fussing over the customer, supply lines etc.
I think they are doing a great job. I'd much rather see Coles
stay in Australian hands, then get taken over by the Americans,
which nearly happened.

In our district, all those women working at Coles supply jobs for
what are largely unskilled workers, so they matter in the community.
If they sacked most of them and put in self scan checkouts, you
guys would complain about those evil supermarkets, even if then
your groceries were much cheaper.

Take a look at the vegie section and watch people pick through
them, leaving anything with the slightest blemish. Huge amounts
of fresh produce are dumped. Somebody has to pay for that.

Once again, I don't think that a 3c in the dollar net margin is
ripping people off. But operating a supermarket chain is a complex
business, full of rules and regulations. Its so easy to knock
the two big chains, a bit harder to be objective and realistic.

So I try to bring a balance. You, uninformed knocker versus my
wisdom :)

.

Yabby,
We all shop where we shop for the reasons we do, if you get a deal with the big two good luck. My experience is that most shop there due to laziness and then complain. There are always alternatives.

Shadow Minister,
If what you say is true then we are simply being gouged. There is not a chance in hell that price rises in energy prices will be discounted by the 1/3 you speak of if a carbon tax/ ets is introduced. Funny, i would bet it would be one of the liberals first moves should they gain government. Similar to the never ever GST. Also not being smart but can you supply links to this info, i would like to ram it down my local members throat.

Nairbe,

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-electricity-bills-to-soar-20100318-qgjw.html

I can't find specific reference to the portion due to the CPRS, but I heard the discussion with Energy Australia back in March.

LOL Yabby, that was 25 years ago and times were different then [my girlfriend attended a public school] and always hoped for a large family with her hubby. They were blessed! lol.

Hi Paul, Bazz, Nairbe, Yabby, Pelican, OUG, Raw Mustard, SM, Pelican, Belly, Otokonoko, 579, Samsung, Hasbeen,and anyone who posts before this thread is taken off or has aged; thankyou for giving to other Aussies reading all of your brilliant generous concepts!

*and always hoped for a large family with her hubby. They were blessed! lol.*

Well in that case, they can be blessed to work harder, to feed all
the little darlings :)

We live by the consequences of our actions, IMHO anyhow.

Its all great Yabby, the eldest four work hard and contribute to the household expenses and my girlfriend and hubby have owned their own home in private business for many years. Family get togethers are wonderful happy occasions; love and hard work won out!

""" So I try to bring a balance. You, uninformed knocker versus my
wisdom :) """

Yes of course Sensei, you're so wise old one!

I'll just keep as much of my own money in my own pocket and help those that I feel are more deserving, how's that sound? :)

Why degrade someone if they differ in your opinion Yabby?

Raw Mustard I would not be concerned about Yabby's comments given that Yabby has a history on OLO for 'standing' up for large corporations who give him the option of a free market to purchase his goods and services. This includes placing CEOs on a pedestal.

Although I have noticed Yabby takes into consideration any "unskilled"? workers who perform manual work. "Unskilled"? as a result of people carrying out manual hand picking work.

There is a skill to absolutely any work performed Yabby including any type of work conducted in the food chain industries.

However I comprehend the point you are trying to make albeit with the slip you made regarding people who you may view as 'unskilled'.

However, Yabby, I agree with your views that "C's" are a terrific alternative to shop and the no name brands are on many occasions a good substitute. If only their meat was sold 'fresh' daily, packed appropriately to omit the odour, foulness and taste, along with the prices being realistic.

WW's: pulled a con job on Australians regarding their Home Brands. All of those 'Home Brand' products are now more expensive than other brands they carry, which, in reality, leaves few options of cheap/inexpensive brands.

In summary, I have managed to keep grocery prices down significantly by (a) purchasing toiletries at Aldi or two dollar shops, (b) purchasing fruit and vegies at a couple of local fresh F&V markets, (c) Meat purchases shared between two butchers and occasionally WWs, with in between excellent cuts from IGA [their meat is fresher and less expensive than WWs where I buy (d) the bulk of every day groceries between WWs, Coles and IGA.

Halleluia for Today Tonights program on the new Warehouse opening up in most states! Excellent competition for both WWs and Cs!! I had been awaiting Costco? to open up in most states for the past two years and it did not happen.

If you look at the salaries of the CEO's etc of the big companies and even those of the water board and politicians, you will see that their salaries have been lifted way out of proportion compared to the normal wages, and it is this extra cost on most goods and services that is the increase of your food costs and other living costs. From 1950 to 1970, we had a good treasurer who put the top tax up to 66.6% on a taxable income which would be about $450,000 today. this would have kept the top salaries down to a reasonable level, but it was more than our wonderful treasurers and politicans over the last 40 years could stand, they prefer the brown nose colouring from their close Acquaintance with the millionaires. These politicans have no intelligence, no integrity, no decency and no allegiance to Australia or the Australian people. Look at "tax history of Australia" also look at "Tax history of the US" remembering that the US is in a depression, and their low paid workers - what still exist, are worse off than our workers, but this is no excuse for the stupidity of our politicans.

I recently returned from a few weeks in Italy, during which time I spent about a week staying in a Rome apartment.

We shopped for basic essentials in a nearby (and small) Supermarket where everything we bought was much cheaper than the so-called Australian "discount" megamarkets.

We are being well-and-truly ripped off here by a couple of huge conglomerates that can afford to buy out Service Stations and Bottle Shops at will to expand their empires.

We need far more local competition to keep them in check.

*where everything we bought was much cheaper than the so-called Australian "discount" megamarkets.*

Has it ever occured to you wobbles, that the food processing
industry in Europe, being massive, due to population and volumes
of scale, is far more efficient then the one in Australia?

I can buy canned carrots from Belgium, or canned tomatoes from
Italy, right here at Coles, far cheaper then Australian ones.

Yet if the local supermarkets import these things, they are condemmed
for not selling Aussie food. They cannot win lol.

Large companies like Nestle, Unilever, Heinz, Simplot, operate
globally. In Australia they pay some of the highest wages and
perks in the world, for a relatively low volume of production.
Those costs are passed on.

But just blame Coles or Woolies, its so easy, without a great
deal of thought or research required.

""" But just blame Coles or Woolies, its so easy, without a great
deal of thought or research required. """

It would seem it's you that doesn't get it, Yabby.
Other retailers in "Australia" can supply "Australian Goods" as well as the same imported products far cheaper and of higher quality than your mates, why is that?

You're the first one to jump down everyone's throat when they whinge about free trade, off-shoring and all that by calming it brings cheaper prices for everyone here. But now you're against people wanting to save a few pennies on their grocery bill by not buying from companies that are clearly ripping them off. What's up with that, don't the others buy off you, protecting your own skin perhaps?

FWIW RawMustard, I see very few rip offs in the grocery trade and
usually when it happens, its by small independant operators and
not by the large ones. But I do see lots of aportioning of wrong
blame, for I too have seen the emotional channel 7 programmes.

So I make it my business to do my homework and point out the
realities, when I see them.

Now I know its more fashionable to be a knocker like yourself,
that is why I asked you, how much of your time, 3$ will buy.
You refused a clear answer.

There are many models by which to operate a grocery business,
the Costco one being one of them. How do they do it? People buy
everything in bulk, it reduces their labour costs.

The Aldi/Lidi model has been operating in Germany for decades,
so what they do is not new. They will win a share of the market,
for they suit a certain type of customer. It doesen't suit a
whole lot of people like me, who want choice and variety, along
with value for money. I certainly don't believe that Australian
consumers are being ripped off, as is often claimed. There are
lots of rip off industries in Aus, the grocery trade is not one of them.

WAU

not much to offer except....perhaps.

-Co-op buying? a group of you organize a side of beef or pork or a whole lamb (mutton ?) to be butchered and split up between you. Definitely a saver there.
-Vegies in the back yard (or little box) Silverbeet grows easy.
-Grow some "Amaranth" grows like CRAZZZZZY... once it get's going.. you kind of stir fry it.

-Hi Effiency lights
-Don't use electicity for cooking or heating if possible.
-Solar/Gas boost hot water.

I know some of them involve outlays... just suggestions mate :)

one of the big tips...is look at the amps...!,,the item is drawing

i see people love their big-screen..tv...
BUT..look at the power..they chew-up...you will be shoked
[i bought a little tv...and now save heaps]

ditto big current..devices like..ceiling fans..or empty fridges
especially hot-water...

but note..changing over to solar..STILL uses HEAPS of power...[disconect the heat-boosting element]..use only the suns energy

but also read the amps..its drawing
turn down the temp setting..on the h2o tank
minimum setting...

dont heat water..ONLY TO HAVE TO..ADD COLD..lol

only boil..the water you need..for the cup of tea
get rid of..the temperature-control ...air-conditioner
open a window..on the shady side of the house
or put on some socks...

air conditioned climate...isnt that good for you..anyhow

[i use a 15 amp small fan]...
not the 280 amp ceiling fan

its about realizing..they want you..to use[consume]
the max..of their service..[product]

so push it through
as fast as the pipes can carry

other hint is ..KBNOW..they are pushing more current through..
ie not 240 volts..but up to 280...cause the more on your meter..the more in their pockett

[sure ..ome of your sppliances short-out..
but lets face it the more they can push..through the pipes..
the more..YOU MUST PAY_FOR

its the same con with water
up the mains..and taps start..to drip

open the tap..and instead of 50 litres..a minute comming through
[you waste 80 litres to brush ya teeth..]

[thats why i closed my mains tap..to the presure..I WANT..
not the presure they want ..!

put a brick in your toilet/water-tank

use only..half flush
[if that dosnt do the trick..change ya diet]

do you really need..that hot shower twice a day?

Shadow minister,
Come on a worthless reference to the SMH. newspapers are cheap. They ply half truths to fill their pages with the rubbish that keeps the ignorant buying the daily.

It is clear if we are to believe the storey that prices will not rise by this amount if the ETS does not come to pass, so let's not get hysterical. I would have thought that prices would rise by a larger margin if an ETS or the like was introduced. The point is to encourage people to use energy differently so as to reduce energy consumption, or am i being to simplistic.

Excellent issues raised Merv, AIR and Wobbles, thank you most kindly. I have read every one's posts and learned a great deal thanks again.

Thank you OUG your concepts are fantastic and will also assist many Australians regarding energy water and costs!

I agree with you, wobbles, that we need more competition. In the time I have spent overseas, I have been pleasantly surprised by the value for money offered in the little supermarkets. Interestingly, they are typically a fraction of the size of our versions - more Foodworks than Woolworths. But they seem to have the buying power to drive good deals. Maybe it's because there are so many of them, and they serve such large markets? I don't know.

My question is: where does the competition come from? I have serious doubts about the integrity of new, overseas-based chains (Costco, Aldi, etc). Why would their interests differ from the existing chains? The smaller, independent groups (IGA, Foodworks, etc) don't seem to have the market power to drive good bargains with their suppliers. It's a rare day that I can pick anything up at the local IGA for less than - or even the same price as - the Woolies a bit further up the road. When Woolworths builds its new supermarket next door to my local IGA, I suspect it will put considerable strain on the IGA as competition. Those loyal to the old store (it's been around for eons) may stay loyal but, over time, I suspect the competition may remain untenable. How does one establish a competitive alternative to the big chains? I'm not sure. But that's probably why I'm not in business.

In my area of Sydney W & C stores are often in Westfields shopping centres where the rents are extremely high. While businesses like Aldi tend to be in low rent shopping complexes. Many years ago, more than 10, I recall an employee of Franklins saying they were paying $17,000 a week rent for a small store, compared to a Woolies or Coles store, in Westfields at Eastgardens. I could not believe it when I was told that the F&V market (now gone) in the same centre added $1 to nearly every kg sold for rent. Simply what they done was say, oranges work out a price based on wholesale price plus o/h wages, profit (except rent and other charges imposed by Westfield such as 2% of your t/o, cleaning and promo etc etc) say it came to $1 he would then add $1 for rent giving a selling price of $1.99/kg, that seems to be why at the market oranges $0.99c/kg.
Has anyone a view on predatory pricing, used by the big stores to force a smaller operator in the same local out of business. Its quite simple, example F&V BIG opens new store in LITTLES centre price of bananas in LITTLES $1.99/kg they cost him $1/kg BIG puts bananas in at $1.49, mean while at the other 7 BIG stores within 10Km bananas are $2.49/Kg and will remain so for a time, they cost BIG $0.80c/kg LITTLE matches the price $1.49, BIG now drops the price to $0.99c/kg LITTLE has to follow, now $0.79C at BIG's. Within no time LITTLE is out of business. The new banana price at BIG's all over town $2.99. That's just bananas.

UOG most of your posts are way out, but this is a new standard !

[i use a 15 amp small fan]...
not the 280 amp ceiling fan

Your small fan is a very good radiator at 3.6 Kw
and the ceiling fan at 280 amps is 67KW and will require your own sub station.
You must be reading by the white heat glow of the fan.

I wish writers who quote these sort of figures would make sure they
understand what they are writing about.
However you are not on your own, journalists are notorious for writing
nonsense exceeded only by the TV stations.

I agree Paul and Otokonoko. I try and purchase most of my F&V in either Vans or markets on the sides of highways or F&V Markets within suburbs, limiting the IGA items, however will endeavour yet again, to see if my older ones [my 20 yr old daughter as my 16yr old son does not eat vegemite or any spreads I have just recalled]will consume some of these products from "A" this time around!

I tried the "A" products a year ago to no avail. Spoiled and all too late. Made a rod for my own back am told!

I forgot to mention the veggie man who sells on the side of the road not far from my place. Fresh, cheap and pleasant service - I don't mind buying from him one bit! He's a bit of an institution, too. He might do what IGA probably won't: survive the Woolworths invasion of my neck of the woods.

Some very interesting comments, but most mention the 'big two', and critisise them. Try living in outback NSW where the 'big two' don't exist and see how much you pay for all of your groceries, and fruit and vegetables aren't always the freshest, but still at premium prices. People in the cities shouldn't complain, just try to live outside the cities for some time.
Then we read about the anniversary of the Olympic Games celebrations, including the lighting of the flame once again. What a total waste of money, who cares? Maybe some of this money could be spent on our ailing health system or feeding and sheltering the unfortunate homeless.

till..through repeated experiences..and developments..it attains to such..a degree..of intellectual..and moral-consciousness..that it stands..upon..the same level..as its spiritual-guardians,

and..*then it..in turn becomes..the spiritual-guardian of..some new-born/soul

I have also..been taught..that the soul-germ..in its first_stage..is only..like a seed,..like,..in fact,..any other seed..in the minuteness..of its size..and powers.

It is,..in fact,..a spark..*of the Divine_Essence/containing in itself..all..that will constitute..the perfected human-soul...

Of its very essence..it is immortal..and..indestructible,..because..it is seed*from that which is..*Immortal..and..*Indestructible.

But..as a seed..has_to/be..sown..into the {material}-darkness..and degradation of the..material-earth..in order that it may germinate,..

so has the soul-seed..*to be sown..in*to..the corruptions..of matter,..first*..in its lower..and then..in its higher_forms.

Each animal..is in itself..A_type of..a soul-seed,..the human_type..mearly..being the highest*..of all,..

and each seed will..in turn..develop to the highest-degree..*possible for it*..through successive spheres..and experiences.

Some/schools..of thought hold that..the soul*..will progress more rapidly..if it is again..and again..returned to material-life..to be born anew,..in a fresh-form*..each time,..

and to live..over..again the experiences..
it has missed,..{victim/last time...oppressor..this*time..;or visa-versa]

we are ALL*..a work..in progress/process
..cast no stones..]

the life-experiences/..missed..or..needing to..expiate..in the mortal-form..the prior-wrongs..done..in a former incarnation.

The spiritual-children..of this school of thought..will indeed be thus...be returned to earth again,..and..for them..each new-lesson will have to be worked-out..in an earthly_life.

"But..it does not follow..that this experience..will be the lot..of all spirits.

There are other schools..who maintain..that the spirit spheres..contain means for..the education of the soul..quite as useful..and expeditious;..

and..with..the spiritual children committed..to their charge..the totally different*course..of sending them..to gather*experience..in the lower-spheres..rather than..*to earth,..will-be..pursued.

[such like..as we see being done here/..now]

They*..will be..made*..to live over*..in memory..their past earth-life
and..to expiate..in the*spirit..the wrongs done..in their earthly existences.

As each soul differs in its character..or individuality,..so each must be trained..by a different method,..

[clearly..us earth-incarnations..
are the hard-cases..{doudting/thomas}...types]

oe else we..would all*..resemble..each other..so exactly
that a monotonous*..sameness..would result..and there would be none of that..variety..and contrast..which give a charm..to earthly life,..as well as revealing..different aspects..of good[god]

and..this..I believe..we will still continue..to do
in the..celestial spheres.

oops sorry/wrong thread
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4092&page=0

things have gone strangly distorted...we have the sovereigns-head..on coin..[i think it was to assure the quality of the coin's content...
in sovereign*..assured weights..and quality...of copper..silver..or gold

[without knowing the real answers...how can be achieve a fair solution..in the ongoing..[upcomming?]..money crisis?

till honest*values..are restored*...to the proper*authority..
how can we get a fair*solution..to this..now global disaster...[maybe]..unfolding as we speak..

lets ask if the constitution..has any answer

chapter 5/115..says...'STATES..shall not coin money
NOR make anything...but gold/silver coin*..a legal tender..in payment of debts'

but..what about..copper[the poor-mans gold]
we lost copper-coins..because they contained..[cost]..4 cents in copper..to make..thus we got rounding-up...and rounding.down...but is it theft...both ways?

see how these things..*creep up ..and..
in doing so..cause huge-problems?

it is no secret..govt..needs..TO*lend..ITS own money..from bankers
[and we know..what bankers did..with this]

but here..is the cure..
.restore..legal_tender's..TRUE_*values

[bank-bills true value..is arround..7 cents
[the true-cost..of printing..and manufacture]

but the true value..of a one cent=5 cents..
so lets*..let one cent=one dollar

then do the math...and return back to..the only constitutionally legal tender..we got..[for paying off personal-debt]

let the banks..still do..as the banks do
but..let the people pay-off..THEIR*debt..in coin..[at true-values]

[at the rate of..one cent...equals one dollar]..two cents.equals 2 dollars...50 cent=50$..and 2dollar coin-200$...

[all wage and govt services..payed-out..get payed..in coin]

and credit..gets repaid in credit
and fiat-bills..in bank bills

what ya think?

nickle..isnt*silver*..
even the gold*coin..isnt gold
but a bank-note..is paper[ok plastic]
...and cyber credit..is not..a solid gold..promise..only ursurous-debt

lets discuss does.. one cent=one $100..[fiat dollars]..?
recall when..ussr went bust..the*people..got shares

well..now the capitalists..are going nuts...
lets get our pay...in coin...ursury free..!

who owns the mint
indeed who tells the mint to print..coin?

even who issues bank-bills?
and who creates credit?

There are a few things that you should get right. Our government has let the top tax go as low as they dare, and this allows high salaries etc which causes high costs of goods and services. Our governments have also engaged in exporting our non renewable non value added resources, coal and iron ore. From what I can find of the value of our coal for example, it was being resold for over 3 times the price in south Korea in 2008. Looking at other examples, the commonwealth minister for mines in 1957, claimed that coal was worth 40 pounds/ton then. Researching the money conversion, this would make it worth about $1024/ton in 2008, about 10 times what they are asking and getting. Our reciprocal trade, implies that the goods we get in return are anything from 10% to 30% of what their cost would be in their own country, Check it.

Merv09,
Are you suggesting if the Peasants have no bread then.
"Let them eat COAL!"

one under god
What can I say, what planet are you feeding on, the poor got a lot of good tips about saving a quid when shopping from your post.