> The problem i found .. have become religious.
Your one of the few people I've come across who can make that distinction.

> I just can't swallow .. once organised .. control
One of the hardest concepts I had to learn to accept in my middle years was that, at this stage of our evolution, ALL traditions will fail and we'll be forced back on our own inner strengths. I couldn't see why, especially as, like yourself, I had a great veneration for the old teachings and traditions, and I owe them a great debt of gratitude for what I've learned from them. It was like losing a family member. I now understand the why and the wherefore, and although it saddens me, I realize the necessity of sweeping away the old before the new can arrive.

> the western world has become hell bent that their way of life
I was also deeply enamoured of science, so you can imagine the conflicts I had to work through. As with the spiritual traditions, I learned a great deal and retain my own inner understanding, but since I hold Western science largely responsible for imposing positivist materialist philosophy on the West (the Devil's own invention, IMO) I find myself bitterly opposed to what is taught as 'science' today.

> we may be able to rebuild
I'd like to be more optimistic, but I don't believe that the time for rebuilding has yet arrived. I've no doubt that it will, but in the interim I think it unwise and a waste of energy to try rebuilding anything. We're going through a destructive phase; the spiritual children have to burn themselves by playing with matches and watch their houses burn down around them - it's the only way they'll learn, unfortunately.

> I can only hope for some kind of social revolution
Of the information that's come my way, the most useful suggests that's not too far distant; but since it depends on a crucial nexus in collective consciousness rather than in time or planetary events, no date can be given.

Thanks everyone for the input. This has been an enjoyable thread that i got a lot from.

Otokonoko that sound like one scary pot hole, we don't have any quite that deep but we have had the same pot hole fields for many years now.

Somehow i wonder if there is any way to get a broader education of life and the world out to the general population. My recent visit to Thailand came because the itchy feet had got so bad after years of raising little children, i just had to go traveling abroad. It has fired me up and am looking for somewhere amazing to take the children next year. Amazingly though many people i know around my area have barely traveled much more than a few of hundred klm from home there hole lives. Certainly it is their choice but i wonder how they can develop informed decisions about a whole range of issues, particularly come voting time.

you are not fooling yourselves. You are allowing everyone else fool you. follow your instincts, not what others want you to believe, not what others think is right. Do what you heart tells you is right. Don't listen to what anyone else tells you is right or wrong. Then you will not be fooled.

I am lucky to be born and bred Asian. I have lived in a few western countries. I know everything you all have posted. I know because I lived it. These people u speak and envy of are my family, my friends. I think I am just unfortunately unlucky meeting the wrong kinda Aussie. I said aussie english should be defined as BS, period.

I have met a few who I do look up to. The older generation. The 2nd-3rd generations Europeans who have not forgotten their heritage, I get along well with their way of lifestyle.

The ugliness I see everyday here, which I always try to reason with. The lady rushing to work, almost knocking down the other lady who helps kids cross the road. So many things I see everyday, till I rather not see. I rather stay at home and wait till I can go back again.

Many of the younger generation(under 40), I reckon do not know the meaning of the words selflessness, consideration, love, understanding. I do not want to see anymore because it is too painful to watch.

Yes, it is a lot better in asia. Because in asia.. people actually care because they know how to. Here they care only when it benefits them.

I rather, spend my time with real friends, who do not take advantage of me, who know me, whom are all over the world. Then spend time in the public here.