These are round numbers.

At present our population is 22 million.

Of these, 11.5 million work.

Of these, 4.8 million pay less in taxes than they draw in benefits.

So effectively, our nation is being 'propped up' by less than 26% of the population, and that's why our government is grasping at straws in order to find a solution, and fast.

And remember, a fair percentage of today's workforce is (was) due to retire within five years.

So, the options appear to be.

The mining tax.
Now it has been suggested that 19 out of every 20 mining ventures fail. Now I doubt this would be how it is now, but can we cripple this industry who takes such large risks and employs so many, while leaving other big business, with much less risk and huge profits alone. Like the banks. After all, they outsource at every oportunity.

Increasing the workers age.
Many workers these day prefer to retire at age 55, collect their super and hit the road, while they are still young enough. Why shouldn't they! Changing the rules will stop them and is that fair?

Make super harder to get to.
There is talk about raising the age from 55 to 67 before one can access their super.

Now if these were contracts you had, Retire at 65, or, retire and collect your super at 55 and the other party broke those contracts, you could sue them.

So, where do the answers lie.

Now, before any of you labor puppets get on your high horse, I do not blame labor as it has been a steady decline for decades, however, we do have a very serious problem looming and something must be done, and fast.

We have already passed the point of no return, rehctub.

>>So, where do the answers lie... something must be done, and fast<<

What will happen is that we will eventually run out of steam, and have to revisit all our assumptions about "the workforce".

This is exactly what has happened in Greece, where the gradually increasing burden carried by the earners, compared with the takers, has culminated in all-round pain. The fact that is not a sustainable situation only became clear when the GFC acted as a circuit-breaker.

Ireland faces the same problem, only from a slightly different perspective. They enjoyed the boom for a while, ignoring the fact that it was largely artificial, in that it had been made possibly through massive EU subsidies, plus a raft of government tax incentives. Property prices went through the roof as the new money chased a shortage of supply, the supply side responded by speculative building on a massive scale, and once the plug was pulled... whammo.

We are building a similar scenario for ourselves here. We will keep digging stuff out of the ground, flog it at the highest price we can get, and live high on the hog for a while.

The chances of government - any government, that is - being asked by the people of Australia to think ahead more than one parliamentary cycle, is, regrettably, nil.

Let me demonstrate that last point.

Make a list of all the actions a government would need to take to store, or invest, sufficient of the wealth presently being created, to ensure the country's continued prosperity for, say, two more generations.

Then mark each one in terms of its ability to attract votes at an election.

QED.

Didn't the mime tax only apply to those who show a proffit of 50 million.
There is no forced retirement age. You can keep going till you drop on the job.
I enjoy my retirement thanks, and do around 20 hours a week work when i feel like it.
It's great when you own your home and owe no debt.
I drew my super 10 years ago and have not used a single dollar of it, then again i have not gained a dollar of it either. When it gets to big i spend some, like a new car every 5 years.
Retirement is easy for the people that have had to save for everything before you bye.
That will be the biggest downfall of those that live on credit, they will have to settle for poverty.

rehctub
All your suggestions turn on more government.

But there's lots we could do with lesser government. For example, if the income tax were abolished, the government's purse would be the same size it was under Keating. Can anyone really put their hand on their heart and declare that life has got so much better as result of more bureaucracy since then, that it's worth the income tax.

Here are some suggestions:
stop funding military action in Afghanistan, Iraq, and wherever else we've got troops;
stop giving handouts to corporations, and farmers
stop making employment illegal at the market rate; let people work if they want to;
stop licensing every occupation so it is now at the stage where you can't pull a beer in a pub, or work as a builder's labourer, or shoot roos, or engage in virtually any kind of productive activity, without asking the gracious permission, and paying tributes to goverment departments with their hand out
stop penalising employers for employing people. Income tax is a tax on the employees' income. Let the employee adminster it. Superannuation is the worker's retirement fund. Let the employee administer it.
stop funding ads on the television telling people how to live their lives.
stop running programs trying to engineer family life.
stop creating zillions of hectares of anti-farming, anti-mining preserves of noxious pests to satisfy people in St Ives
stop funding companies who profit from overseas trade commissions funded by government
stop handing out billions to corrupt tin-pot dictatorships
stop paying people to look after their own children
stop spending money on trying (without success) to prevent people taking drugs
stop regulating child care services out of existence, thus creating an artificial shortage of services, which they then subsidise...

stop regulating apprenticeships out of existence, thus creating an artificial shortage of apprenticeships, which they then subsidise
stop paying for R&D for farmers; they can pay for itself with the money saved from taxation
stop paying for government bureaucracies to collect reams of statistics, all of which are used to justify expansion fo bureaucracies
stop paying for radio and television stations to broadcast non-stop government propaganda - people can pay for the radio and televeision content they want with the money saved by taxation
stop requiring everyone to register their dogs, cattle and sheep with the government - what next? ferrets? rabbits?
stop regulating what bloody light-bulbs I can have in my own home
stop giving handouts to businesses - if people want their products, they can pay for them; and if they don't, the business has no right to a handout from the taxpayer.
Stop giving government employees flex time and salaries 30% above the private sector.
abolish politicians inflated superannuation, and life-time perks.

That's just for starters. Just go through the phone book and get rid of any governmental activity that stops people from doing what they want, subject to a general ban on force or fraud.

There is no easy answer to this, which is why the government will only
play around at the edges.
I think I heard the other day that the retirement age is to be lifted to 67.
Well that is what I call playing at the edges.
I believe that it will be necessary to cut out the pension to anyone
under about 75. Those between 67 and 75 that have already retired will
have to go back to work.

However finding work for these workers in a time of economic
contraction will be next to impossible. We probably have no more than
five years to work out what to do about it.
As food production will be under strain, it might well be possible
for the state government to set aside land on the outskirts of our
cities for horticultural farms that could employ the older workers.
They could have an entitlement to as much of the food as they can
carry away and their pension could be restored and paid for out of
the sale of produce.

All very draconian but that is where we are headed, so get used to it.

All very well old boy , but that would be political suiside.
Now give us some practical solutions.

I agree with Pericles and to a certain extent with Peter H. However, I would add that I get sick and tired of people who feel that they have an entitlement to all these government hand-outs......"I have paid all my taxes therefore the government should provide" attitude.

We have been conned into living on credit by listening to all those commercials extolling the virtues of "buy now pay later" and thus mortgaging our future and those of our children, all for the sake of that shiny new car or plasma TV. People and countries should learn to live within their means rather than make short term decisions, such as politicians do to buy the vote of the non-thinking public who usually think that someone else will pick up the tab.

Stimulus provided by the government is only piling more debt onto existing debt with borrowed money. How does that provide a long term solution when it all has to be paid back plus the interest with our taxes ? All it will eventually do is debase the currency as is being experienced in many other countries.

""" All very well old boy , but that would be political suicide. """

That's the problem isn't it?

The very ones that created this problem will never sacrifice their good fortune to improve the situation for the majority. They'll just keeping doing what they do best and that is take, take, take!

Now, who is John Galt?

Well said Peter Hume, love your work dude, strait to the point, but it will just wash off all the parasites in this world, and they're the majority now unfortunately.

some-interesting points
but the big...point..that could easilly reverse/things

is dumping all taxes
and putting in a one percent transaction tax..
on every transaction....

thats..[got-to be].. better than 30/50 percent of wages
or 10 percent on goods services

trouble is the big money movers/
dont like paying their fair share of tax

if you can afford to spend-it
you can afford one percent..to pay your fair share of tax

the other...easy/cure
is govt to take back the mint/federal reserve/monetry system
currently owned./run by bankers

THE REASON govt needs your taxes..is because..it neds TO BORROW
its own money..from the fed reserve bank...AT INTREST[with ursury]

thus needs ever new taxes..to simply pay of intrest
and sell off...public resources[telstra/comm-wealth/bank...rail..etc..to pay-BACK..principle

govt..in the good old days..simply issued money..as needed

[the extra/value..of the new asset
more than off-sets...the extra monetory supply/spike...

[see once..it goes back to the fed..its paid back..[no intrest]

but babkers love govt begging thenm for money
govt actually gives them a bond,,,that they onsell[getting back the money]
but then still get intrest,,from our taxes
its little known...all tax goes to the fed reserve/govt account

cause govt dont do banking/no more

cause bankers stole..the whole systyem
they/banbkers..say print more/less..and the mint does it

worse..our money...legally was pure gold/pure/silver
and the bankers/runnung the fed reserve..stole that too...!

leased-it perpetually..to the other bankers
who sold-it into the market..for cash..they banked into the fed

see CURRENTLY..every penny of money
needs* to be...loaned*..into egsistance
ie neds to repay..more...than can be created/by lending

thus annually many lender need top default
simply so others have their cash to pay the intrest
henmce/the boom/bust../inflation cycle..and bankers running things

regardless of who we vote-in/to govt
they all are bound/by debt..to bankers

whitlam and/jfk...were the last..to try to stop it
and we saw..what hapend to them

579 said:
""" All very well old boy , but that would be political suicide. """

Yes and it is the point. If you think something like business as usual
will be viable over the next ten years then you are in for a shock,

You will be considering whether the amount of fuel in your ration
justifies the insurance and maintenance of your car.
Even if you have an electric car you will be looking at the size of
your bill and wondering.

It is the impact of energy depletion and all that it implies that has
caused politicians world wide to treat it as a non subject.
Only two countries are acting on the prospect, Sweden and China.
China has been rushing around the world tying up long term contracts
for oil supply if they cannot buy the oil fields.
They are not doing that for fun !

Rehctub you wrote that of the people who work, 4.8 million pay less in taxes than they draw in benefits.

I have some questions for you.

1) From where did you get that figure?

2) Will you please provide a link, for verification?

3) Does your claim that 4.8 million people pay less in taxes than they draw in benefits include GST paid? If so, please provide a link for GST verification.

PH, I agree with most of what you say.

OUG, this transaction tax has to be worth a go, or at least have it fully costed by someone credible.

I remeber pauleen hansen suggested that a 2% CT would allow us the abolish every other tax we have and collect more than we currently do.

Rudy, I read it somewhere about 12 months ago. I doubt much has changed, however, I will have to get back to you.

579 You mentioned the mining tax cutting in at 50million$. So, what is company tax if it's not a tax on profits?

And, nobody is talking about 'forced retirerment'. It's just that if they get their way, retiring at 65, or 50 and collecting your super will no longer be an option.

Now, is this fair to suddenly shift the goal posts?

You knowm just maybe the tides are turning. Take China. Until the past ten or so years, most of them worked for next to nothing, in many cases, just for food, however, they wanted for nothing as well.

Nowdays they all want to be like us. They want the car, they want to be westernised.

Perhaps China will be the next Australia and Australia will take the place of past china.

In any case, we simply are burning tha candle at both ends and, if something drastic is not done, we will most certainly fail.

After all, we once rode on the sheeps back, that died. Then tourisum became huge, that's all but dead. Manufacturing was strong, that's now mostly found in history books now.

Mining is the next 'sheeps back', but, if and when that goes, what's left!

We will all be ruined said Hanrahan/rechtub.
Let them eat cake said others.
Yes some bludge on us all, not in retirement but life long.
Those who are paid to protect us from them do so too.
But we will muddle our way to a future we can not yet see.
I want to see our butchers sources too.
But am amused by the fact some who say our country is over flowing with Leach's need to look at what they takeout and what they put in.

Ok belly, so you suggest we will be fine.

So, where do you propose the jobs will come from?

30 odd years ago, when I entered the workforce, you could simply leave one job today, have a week or so off, if you pleased, then start a new job if and when you were ready. Those days are gone, don't you agree.

Today, inflation is at record lows, unemployment is supposedly very low, taxes are low, rents are cheaper than they were (in relative terms), yet, we all struggle to have one red cent left when the next pay arrives. How can this be?

The NBN will be the next challenge. Supposing the government gets it right and it doesn't blow out, is this not going to place a huge strain on our IT industry, one of the few we have left.

Our local footy club, which I sponsor, is having caps made and their chinese designer/manufacturer is requesting some changes to my logo.

So, not only are the being made there, but also designed there.

You can have graphic design work done overnight and at a fraction of the cost. NBN will most likely make this an even smoother transition.

I say again belly, if some serious changes are not done, where are the jobs of the future coming from?

I see two major reform requirements.

1. Stop the handouts.

2. Stop the waste.

BTW, did you here recently that the government is looking to wards cutting pensions in order to help balance the books. Remember, these folk have paid their taxes to help support us.

""" But am amused by the fact some who say our country is over flowing with Leach's need to look at what they takeout and what they put in."""

I personally have put a truckload in, built a company that employed 100 people and exported to over 6 countries, so brought money into the country. I've taken nothing out!

What has a labour union rep done? Apart from sponsor the bureaucrats that have made it not worth my while to continue, hence now my company has been moved to another country and is now an expense. You can sit there and blow wind up your own arse all day but at the end of it all, it's the ones that produce that give you the comfort you've become accustomed too and all you've done is turned them into a whole lot of John Galts!

Thats unfortunate that your company now resides over seas.
People are entitled to fair and proper wages.
I say there is more to it than blaming a union.
If you were any good you would have found a solution to your short commings, instead of going overseas for cheap labour.
These are the companies that need large excise imposed on them so more don't follow your solution.

Rehctub, you wrote about easily getting work when you were younger in the 80s compared to how hard it is for people now. I'm afraid you're looking at the past through totally rose coloured glasses.

Here are the facts.

1) 1983 unemployment rate 9.961%

2) 1993 unemployment rate 10.608%

3) current unemployment rate 5.1%

On a percentage basis, and a numerical basis, many more people are finding jobs right now, compared to those 'good old days'.

Have you got the answers ready yet for the three questions I asked you earlier? Thank you.

""" People are entitled to fair and proper wages. """

First you're assuming we didn't pay our employees fair and proper wages, which is so far from the truth I can only laugh!

""" I say there is more to it than blaming a union. """

If you re read what I said, I wasn't only blaming unions!

""" If you were any good you would have found a solution to your short commings, instead of going overseas for cheap labour. """

Our products were number one in their class in Australia and also in some countries around the world, so the quality of our product had nothing to do with this and our production techniques were as advanced as was humanly possible, the whole plant was 90% automated.

When you finish deluding yourself into thinking that companies move off shore just for cheap labour then we can begin to move forward. Until then, I don't have the time or inclination to discuss it with you; sorry, but it's like arguing with a greeny whether we should shut down all the power stations, it's just a waist of breath.

""" These are the companies that need large excise imposed on them so more don't follow your solution. """

Fine, throw more bureaucracy at a problem created through over bureaucracy, way to go there Einstein! Those companies that have moved don't really give two hoots about the Australian market anymore. They're quiet happy servicing the rest of the developed world. Tax them all you like, it won't fix a thing, it's why they've left you for dust in the first place!

cont...

Right now I could start another company in Australia, but you know what? It's not worth it, I'm better off putting my money into overseas ventures where I'm not penalised for trying to help people. And I have no desire to help the current administrators of this country while they sponge off my hard labour at no reward to me or any of my fellow Aussies!

People are doing the math everyday and the numbers are not adding up in their favour, it's just not worth it anymore!

Maybe you think I've got a bad attitude and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm only one in the tens of thousands of dying middle class small business people in this country thinking this way and it's growing! It's in the millions and growing if you want to think globally!

At least there was a time where I put my money and my labour where my mouth is. I sacrificed heaps and it worked and was good for a while, but then they just made it too hard to be bothered, they wanted more and more and now a 100 people are out of work from my company alone! Remember we made up the bulk of employers in this country, we're nearly all gone!

Here's a great read as to how a lot of us feel!

It's American based but the same applies here.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=195493

""" many more people are finding jobs right now """

But they're service based jobs which count for nothing in adding to the wealth of the country!

It's like you're living on a farm with your family, each of you have a task to perform to keep the farm running. One feeds the chooks but you only sell 10 chooks a week which brings in money to cover your rates. Throwing in another 1000 chook feeders to feed your current chook population without selling more chooks to another group does not make you more wealthy, but sure you've now given a 1000 people something to do!

*These are the companies that need large excise imposed on them so more don't follow your solution.*

579, your big stick tactics won't work too well in the real world,
I am afraid.

There is a great big world out there, other then Australia. People
smart enough to create and grow companies, will soon run rings
around you and move their resources and ideas elsewhere.

A carrot approach works far better, but learn the hard way.

Rechtub...and answer the question :) (I've just put my 'Oracle/prophet' hat on)

Where to from now ? "down...down...down" that's where.

Pericles says:

What will happen is that we will eventually run out of steam, and have to revisit all our assumptions about "the workforce".

No Pericles.. not quite correct.. it's not steam we will run out of it's coal and iron ore, or.. China will lose a large of of it's market, the USA which will be (is?) broke and given that it contributes 30% of world GDP this suggests it will not be very capable of buying the things the Chinese make, which in turn are made from 'our' coal and iron ore etc....sending us also into a spiral of economic doom.

We are all living on borrowed time Rechtub......look closely at the USA (specially over the next few weeks)...their political direction will determine where we all go.

But (hint) watch out for the 'wolves in sheeps clothing'...they are behind much of what concerns you...who do you think they are ? :)
They do actually have a name.

The very people you are talking about are would be liberal supporters.
The first thing they do is go offshore and give the benefit to a communist country.
The only reason for that is they can pay, poverty wages no OHS and whatever these backward countries are lacking.

It goes from bad to worse !
Now we have a government that favours a "larger" Australia.
Now we have a government that wants to reduce water to farmers.
Now we are have farmers saying less water means less food.

Do you see a contradiction there ?

Why is it that no news media reporter or politician has questioned
the contradiction of those two policies ?
Should we now have a policy of a smaller Australia ?
Should we start removing immigrants from Australia; a last in first
out policy ?
Or do we starve them out ?
The UN is warning of world food shortages, if we import food then we
use our relative wealth to take food out of the mouths of poorer people.

If we do not have the food then we cannot have the people.

A few broad ideas:

Rethink what it is we want from governments. What aspects of life can be better supplied by the private sector or from individuals/communities. More participation from citizens.

Put the environment first. Without that premise in decision making we work only towards our own downfall.

There are too many snouts in the trough - across all sectors- middle class welfare, funding for outdated social engineering programs, sport and corporate welfare, and too much government which exists to prop up itself in a cylce of self-fulfilling programs.

The benefits of public ownership in a number of critical areas - such as energy, water and other utilities better served without the pressure of legal obligations to shareholders or where the citizens are subservient to the greed of others. Make the people the common shareholder in some enterprises.

Get rid of the empire builders and look critically at what are the priorities of citizens including the obvious infrastructure, health, education, law enforcement, emergency services, judicial and other services.

Get rid of double dipping taxation and red tape costs across Commonwealth, State and Local Governments.

Employers should offer fair wages and conditions including safe work environments but we should also stop expecting the private sector to act on behalf of governments (collecting taxes) and provide funding for what are essentially private matters. Ideally any one family should be able to live on one income should they choose.

The biggest problems come from wage disparity which impacts on demand for welfare and for government subsidies. Reduce the gaps and the cost of living issues will follow.

Work for the Dole programs are a good start after an agreed period both to gain experience, training and to improve self worth.

Understand some people, due to disability or caring duties, may not be able to work in the same way as others, but that we all benefit from well targeted safety nets that allow others to live with dignity. We all gain from the benefits of this insurance should we experience a similar change in circumstances.

579, don't ever try investment for a living, you would soon go
broke.

For a a start, you confuse politics and business. If I were
to start some new venture for instance, I would first of all
use contract manufacturers, wherever they are located.
There are already huge manufacturing operations, with all the
machinery, its pointless to reinvent the wheel and the associated
costs.

Much of manufacturing today is highly automated and specialised,
so it really depends on who has suitable equipment. They can
be located in the US, Europe, wherever.

As to Australia, its true that Australian workers have some of the
world's cushiest conditions and employing people here comes with
extra costs, on top of wages, such as super, payroll tax, holiday
leave loading, long service leave, overtime times 2, termination
pay, and all the rest. Every bell and whistle needs to be paid for
by the consumer in the end. Given that consumers want cheaper and
cheaper products, why would anyone risk their hard earned savings
to pay for all these bells and whistles and maybe lose the lot, unless
its in something like a lucrative mine?

That is exactly what is happening

579, have a look at British Leyland, & the rest of the UK car industry, & you will see an industry, & ultimately a country, destroyed by a stupid labour movement. This is a perfect example of what unions, & Labor governments are doing to Oz.

In the early 80s, I was responsible for the localisation of production for a company previously sourcing high quality brass products from the USA, & Europe. After a couple of years development, we had our own improved products, many patented, & were exporting 35% of our production.

In the late 90s, I was asked to come back, to try to save the company, which was probably technically bankrupt. It's market share had been lost to importers, sourcing product from Asia, underselling them by large margins. Some of this product probably infringed their patents, but defending those patents was beyond the companies resources.

In this case it had nothing to do with high Oz labour costs. I found I could source product to our design, & specification, finished, & in packaging to our design, for less than I could buy the raw brass to make the product here in Oz.

That Asia can buy brass, produced from our copper & zinc, much cheaper than we can, is I believe, down to government laws & regulations, that make any refining or heavy industry simply not viable here.

Just how long we can continue, taking in each other's washing is hard to know. It is not too hard to see however, that it can't extend beyond our mining boom

Interestingly, it seems that things are hotting up between the U.S. and China. The U.S. may be shooting itself in the foot by reacting to China's undervalued currency. It seems cheap Chinese goods are helping the American economy in one way and holding it back in another.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1522591720100515

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2010/Oct/07/weak_economy_has_nations_waging_currency_wars.html

Every thing you say can be fixed with one act of parliament. But the world has an agreement about free trade. Trade may be free, but that doesen't make it fair. So even up the score...
America may come to a solution that somewhat leans that way, which will no doubt cause an avalanch around the world.
America loses manufactures the same way we do, so don't blame the labour govt;
Poverty wages and conditions is the draw card, even china won't be able to sustain that for ever.
N Z tried to downgrade wages and all they achieved was an immigration shift.

*Every thing you say can be fixed with one act of parliament.*

Ah, if only life were so simple, 579. You have clearly never
thought this one through. But it would eventually hit you,
when you went to the shops to spend your money. Most things
would cost more, many you could not afford, especially if
you were poor. So you'd want higher wages to compensate.
Prices would go up even more, the inflationary spiral would
be on its way. Your standard of living would go down and
you'd wonder why. All because you don't understand the
claim above, that you are making.

1983 unemployment rate 9.961%

2) 1993 unemployment rate 10.608%

Rudy, I was referring to the late 70's.

These times you refer to were the worst in history for labor. Remember the 21% interest rates!

Just remember who came to the rescue.

As for your questions, I will find the link. I know it came from the Australian about 12 months ago. Give or take and the story was that 42.8% of 'income tax payers' received more in handouts than they paid in tax. I doubt much has changed.

The old, we'll have the children, you pay the bill mentality.

As yabby quite rightly points out, the jobs created today are not labor intensive jobs and, with the introduction of the NBN, many of today's jobs (service, IT) will also be at risk of going off shore.

RM. I here you loud and clear. These people forget they are the recipients of our risk and, if and when we decide the risk is no longer worth while, then what are they going to do.

You see they (labor) link wage rises to living costs, yet they fail to acknowledge that all wage increases must first be made as 'profits' before they can be passed on as 'wage increases'. This is the fundamental flaw in their ways.

After all, if you ask any of them if they would invest a dollar, without making one for themselves, they would say no. Yet they expect us to.

30 years from now, things will be very different, unless of cause we make some changes, like;
Stopping the handouts and waste
Linking wages to profits, not CPI

Now I acnowledge that the cost of living is hard, but is that the fault of small business.

Wage rises are linked to living costs;;
Living costs are linked to the price of sheep on the hoof.
Everybody deserves to get reasonable outcomes to live on.
Cutting CPI would only lead to less to spend, and less to share around.
In free enterprise there will always be winners and losers.
It's a matter of what sort of political system you want to have.
Prices would be controlled under a socialist system, Or a free market system the costs continually rise. So i dont see how you can do away with CPI. Thats my opinion.

Rehctub,
You really are doing a panic. The world won't end anarchy isn't about to over run us and if you want to know why we all get so many freebies out of the gumbyment then look at all the howard bribes. Family tax benefit, family tax bonus, baby bonus, private vehicle conveyance scheme and on and on. The problem is real i give you that, we are ageing and we only have so many workers but the reality is it was only a generation ago that we accepted that we had to work all our lives to pay our way and that retirement at 65 usually ment death at 68.
It is the current and incredibly selfish "ME" generation that want their cake and eat it. You as many others may not have realised but there are alternatives to super. Of course the employer paid portion is locked but if you expect to retire at 55 you will have to put heaps in your self. You could have share portfolios or invest in property just to name two ideas, both with better returns than super.
The reality is that once the greedy baby boomers are gone we will have to clean up the mess they created through there selfish greed and consumption, hopefully we will learn from it and make the required changes so as life returns to a sustainable future we will not be tempted again by the greed we suffer now.

The reality is that once the greedy baby boomers are gone we will have to clean up the mess they created through there selfish greed and consumption, hopefully we will learn from it and make the required changes so as life returns to a sustainable future we will not be tempted again by the greed we suffer now.

nairbe,you make so good points, however, you assumption on the baby boomers may be off track.

You see, successive generations of workers have funded the retirement of the previous gen and this is where the problem lies.

When the BB commenced work, there was no family assistance, etc, yet, the government of the day still could not provide for the retirees at that point from their own taxes. Instead, they relied on the taxes of the BB.

Remember, when the pension commenced there were 27 payees per retiree, 27-1, now I believe that's about 2-1.

So to think the 'current generation' will provide for the BB is a joke. Unless of cause we stop the waste and handouts.

My problem is not today.My problem is more like in ten years from now, esspecially if we continue to throw billions at this war in another country.

How do we sucure the future for retirees to come with a deminishing tax revenue and resourses and the selling off of assetts?

The Department of Human Services has become a self-perpetutaing monster.

At present, total personal income tax collections are approximately $125 billion per annum.

At present, Centrelink handles approximately $87 billion to redistribute, very often to the same people who paid the personal income tax. 27,000 staff are employed, costing nearly $3 billion a year, to do so.

Then there's Medicare, with $14 billion of tax dollars being handled at a relatively efficient cost of nearly $1 billion. Staff numbers are not easily obtainable from Medicare's reports, which are a triumph of obfuscation.

So the DHS's 2 major Agencies have control of over $100 billion out of the total $125 billion in personal tax revenues, costing a total of nearly $4 billion a year.

In contrast, the ATO had only 22,500 employees to handle the nearly $300 billion in total tax collections from business and personal payers. The ATO's reports are a model of clarity and brevity by comparison with the hodge-podge of self-justification from Centrelink and Medicare.

Can anyone suggest why it should require more staff to handle hand-outs than it does to collect it in the first place?

Why do we need to have 2 Agencies dedicated to giving people back money that they already had before it was taken from them by tax? Is it really worth nearly $4 billion to do that double handling? Could a large part of it be replaced by tax deductions administered by what is clearly a more professionally-run organisation in the ATO?

I say resoundingly YES! Does anyone disagree and if so, on what grounds?

You say there's not enough tax to go around, yet you are suggesting tax cuts. If it were that simple there would be a lot more people out of work;; So the system is round to make things go round..
If we are running short of tax money raise GST that covers the lot. IT"s user pays. The more you get fat the more tax you contribute.
Thats why you ideas have flaws. Thats my opinion;;

I know, I know here he goes again !
The way it used to be over.
Growth is literally running on fumes.
Most of solutions being proposed here, especially those relating to
taxation are redundant. In future the medical system that we now have
will be even more constrained by lack of funding.

The financial squeeze on governments will steadily increase until it
is realised that the lack of growth is permanent.

If you want to see a snapshot of what is in the future for us have a
read of Prof Kjell Aleklett's blog on Houston Texas.

http://aleklett.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/has-texas-pased-the-peak/

True, we will not go exactly the same way as the US but we are in
danger of a similar path. It is inevitable that China will have to
pull in its horns fairly soon as the exponential growth simply cannot
continue, there are not enough resources in the world !

When that happens we will go the same way as Houston.
In the US they are either reducing the size of police forces or
getting rid of their police forces altogether and relying on state police.
They are turning tarred roads back into gravel roads. Their bridges
are literally falling down. Their infrastructure is literally falling apart.
Local and state governments are broke and California is to all
intents and purposes bankrupt.

With our debt increasing at the rate it is we will be hard put to
avoid a similar fate.

I thinkit is time someone had a very serious look at a transaction tax.

It is said that such a tax could rid us of every other tax, including GST, payroll and company/personal taxes.

Why is it not being seriously considered.