Philo

>>> I prefer to have demonstrated values in character we can admire and emulate. One who by his actions to bring human unity can demonstrate forgiveness and grace even to enemies and to his detractors and enemies. <<<

Right on. Look at what these values have done for Runner, the Exclusive Brethren, Hillsong, Jerry Falwell and the KKK.

Severin,
Are you ignorant or blind? If you are not blind read the New Testament, especially the examples of Christ life and teachings and see if their lives agrees with his life and teachings. It is all very well to amplify the grose sins of some; but I suppose you have offended no one?

The problem is, Philo, we disagree on your very first premise.

>>The human mind is part of the created universe and reflects the mind behind the created universe.<<

Only if you are already predisposed to believe it.

If there is no "mind" to reflect, it would not be possible to complete the sentence, would it?

However, you and I can agree that the human mind:

>>is the best gauge we have of creative intelligence and design and moral and ethical behaviour<<

But if the mind is indeed the best gauge etc. etc., why would you need to invent a God as an intermediary?

>>That you prefer to have no God is your choice there is no absolute moral standard, no intelligent purpose or design in the universe.<<

Philo, I hate to break it to you, but even among theists there is a wide range of "moral standards" - it has nothing to do with "having no God". Your theist's moral standards depend entirely upon which God, and which subset of godly instructions, is chosen.

And you are being just a little obtuse here:

>>God is not three persons - God is one spirit. That spirit is found in Christ Jesus.<<

Let's look at the "not three persons" part.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the Trinity turns out to be:

"...the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another."

The key here would be, whom did Jesus represent when he was on earth? Was it the same God of the Old Testament, or a different one? Or maybe one who had matured a little, and was no longer quite so absolute?

But whichever way you cut it, it surely cannot be ascribed to personal preference, as you suggest here:

>>That some propose God is violent and vengeful may come from their view of life...<<

It is not that "some" propose this, Philo.

The Bible says so.

What does atheism do for social and economic development?
Dont worry about what atheists may do for sociual and economic development, we all know what God-fearing people of all persuasions have done...which is catastrophic! God save us from God botherers. Now there's an original prayer, surely.

An atheist is a tax-paying citizen with the same rights and tons of more moral and ethical weight to bring on such issues.
No. I am not an atheist. Call me a probablian.

All that a politician, like anyone else, needs is a sound moral character and a dedicated ethical strength. He is a person who has got up off his knees and does not take dictation from his local bishop. He is also quite clear in his mind that the problems humans face are in this world, not in heaven, wherever that is, or if ever that is. The answers we need are to be found here in this world. This alone rules Tony Abbot out. What an apology for a lawmaker he is.

socratease

Philo.
Please. No more of that New Testament stuff.
It gives most of us the yipps. We know all about it, really.
Socratease

<<What does atheism mean for social and economic development?

Absolutely nothing.

Posted by Jockey, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 7:31:33 PM>>

Thanks Jockey for addressing the issue. The evidence i presented ( from leading economists) indicates that a commitment to religious beliefs "sustains individual behavior that enhance productivity".

<<Barro and McCleary suggest that higher rates of religious beliefs stimulate growth because they help to sustain aspects of individual behavior that enhance productivity. They believe that higher church attendance depresses growth because it signifies a greater use of resources by the religion sector. However, that suppression of growth is tempered by the extent to which church attendance leads to greater religious beliefs, which in turn encourages economic growth>>
http://www.nber.org/digest/nov03/w9682.html

So in so far as atheism results in a breaking down of belief it is deterimental to economic development.

Here are the references i provided earlier:
Religion and Economic Development: by Rachel M. McCleary
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/5729#nogo

Religion and Economic Growth, Robert J. Barro and Rachel M. McCleary
(Harvard University,April 8, 2003) http://eco.isu.ac.ir/EDU/dlc/2rd/08/instructor/Religion%20and%20Economic%20Growth.pdf
Robert Barro is short-listed for the Nobel prize for his work in the field of economic growth and development