The Forum > General Discussion > The wild colonial boy
The wild colonial boy
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Posted by Daeron, Monday, 13 September 2010 1:13:36 PM
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I think colonial rule is bad no matter who does the ruling. Look what we did to the aboriginal people up to the mid 20th century. The people in Papua deserve autonomy and self rule, nothing less. Indonesia has shown it can be a brutal ruler.
Posted by petej, Monday, 13 September 2010 4:20:52 PM
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"Look what we did to the aboriginal people up to the mid 20th century."
What makes you think it's any better now? Posted by Jefferson, Monday, 13 September 2010 4:28:07 PM
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Because now they have equal rights
just a thought Posted by Nicnoto, Monday, 13 September 2010 4:34:08 PM
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Jefferson said: What makes you think it's any better now?
It's true both East Timor and PNG are being dicked about by politicians doing deals with the mining companies for a quick buck, instead of restoring or building their own economy. But, at least it's their own bastards doing it - the people in Timor Leste and PNG can if they wish lift themselves out of the mining quagmire. It's not our job to make life perfect in West Papua, but as a free people it is our responsibility to speak up when somebody else is being denied that basic freedom to life & liberty. A lesson learnt in WW-II which was the basis of the United Nations de-colonization program; and in my view a lesson our Australian politicians have been too eager to ignore. Posted by Daeron, Monday, 13 September 2010 4:48:15 PM
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The following website may be of interest
for those that aren't aware of the history of the place: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2295 We definitely should speak out on behalf of human rights and the destruction of the environment and indigenous people. Realistically though, money seems to have more clout than any morals or ethics. When governments get dollars in the billions from mining and other resources who's really going to be concerned with the lives of the indigenous people in the area? Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 2:47:52 PM
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Because now they have equal rights
just a thought.. nicnoto, I have actually accompanied Indonesians collecting food & clothing for Papuans. I have seen the Indonesian Air Force C35 carrying Highlanders to the coastal towns with their trading goods & take them back to the Highlands. All for free every Thursday. Believe me. australian NGO's are pontificating on the injustices. I'm not by all means saying that all is perfect but a lot of compassion is being dished out up there. Posted by individual, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:30:53 PM
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2295
Foxy, Don't let yourself get hoodwinked by articles like that. The pages don't even open when you click on the link. I'm not saying saying it is all wrong but please consider what William Blake said, "a truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent" Posted by individual, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 10:42:42 PM
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Dear Individual,
I admit that I don't know all that much about what's going on in West Papua and you probably know more about it however, this was one of the first articles I came across when I did a search on the web. The references to East Timor made sense to me, as did the facts about how mining corporations treat the locals. We know that multinationals have an impressive record of interference in the affairs of the host countries, with activities ranging from bribery of local officials to attempts to overthrow foreign governments. The multinationals do offer many useful resources to the less developed countries. They can encourage economic growth by importing the necessary capital and technology, and they create new industries and markets all over the world. But their motives are purely selfish - to exploit cheap labour and resources on an international scale for the benefit of a handful of stockholders in wealthy countries. Anyway, I will take your advice and do far more research - and see what other websites have to say on the subject. Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 10:21:00 AM
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Dear Foxy,
If you're looking for a pertinent example of the damage multi-nationals can do to the environment and livleihoods of indigenous people, look no further than the Ok Tedi mine disaster in Papua. Note at the bottom of the list of horrors that the mine's owners point to improved social and economic outcomes for the locals...laughable, really....let us destroy your local environment, but we'll build you a school and a hospital as recompense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ok_Tedi_environmental_disaster Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 10:40:53 AM
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A colonialist will always claim the victims are too simple to do things for themselves and are being helped by the colonial power; the more outrageous a lie the less likely it will be challenged. And it's outrageous to deny the Indonesian Air Force is in Papua to support the military enforcement of involuntary 'unity'.
Here are some photos http://wpik.org/Src/1961-apx-photos.PDF and reports http://wpik.org/Src/un_report_1961.html http://wpik.org/Src/1960-report.PDF http://wpik.org/Src/1959-report.PDF about what the people of West Papua had fifty years ago before the Indonesian military stripped the infrastructure (even school desks) for cheap sale back in Jakarta. I don't know what happened to the people who were training as nurses and doctors after Indonesia began it's colonial administration. Posted by Daeron, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 10:51:19 AM
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Individal
I don't doubt you in the slightest, but I was referring to Aboriginals in Australia having equal rights. Posted by Nicnoto, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 12:19:22 PM
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Some people in Indonesia seem to support colonialism, and some claim the circumstance of the American Indian and Australian aboriginals justifies colonial rule by the Indonesian military in West Papua.
But, the Indonesian colonial claim to came AFTER global agreement to end colonization (UN charter in 1945), after the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948); and the US deal for the Dutch to sell the people of Papua to Indonesia (in 1962) came AFTER the UN resolutions 1514 and 1541. Under 1514 every colony was entitled to IMMEDIATE self-determination, and 1541 gave definitions for what a colony and self-determination were. Posted by Daeron, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 2:15:04 PM
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Dear Poirot,
Thanks for your website. It confirms what I'm finding. Dear Daeron, Thanks also for the site you've given. Its much appreciated. I don't know where the answers lie on how to improve things, and what we can actually do except place pressure on our government when the opportunities arise. If anyone has any better ideas, I'd like to hear them. Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 6:42:20 PM
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Sadly Foxy, Australia and PNG are the two governments which will not help West Papua because our politicians are scared out of their minds by the size of Indonesia's population.
There are politicians in Ireland, the US, and mostly Green politicians in several other countries who have spoken and tried to help West Papua during the pass ten years; but it's the United Nations which is meant to be dealing with the international issue of colonies. But Indonesia is on the UN Decolonization committee. The easiest solution is if the UN General Assembly supports a motion asking the International Court (ICJ) to give it's advisory opinion about the New York Agreement, and about whether West Papua is a colony. Posted by Daeron, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 11:53:22 PM
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Dear Daeron,
Thanks for clarifying things for me. It appears that small fish don't have that much power in the large political ocean. I know, coming from a Lithuanian background. The veil of silence that shrouded the tragedy of the Baltic Nations in both the East and the West. The policy of Western democracies, although formally was one of non-recognition of the Soviet occupation of the Baltic Nations, the reality as the people found out the hard way was a different story. Western democracies did not want to "offend" the Soviet Union. They closed their eyes and ears to the suffering of the Baltic people. This attitude prevailed up to the 1990s. Lithuanian President, Vytautas Landsbergis was told to "negotiate" that "unruly Lithuanians should respect and follow orderly Soviet constitutional procedures." And this despite the fact that the world recognised that Lithuania was illegally incorporated into the Soviet Union. In other words, that Lithuania was not seeking to establish independence. It was seeking to restore an independent nation that was illegally suppressed by a foreign power and its army. As President V. Landsbergis pointed out, "This was not a legal nicety but the basic and non-negotiable premise of the March 11th 1990 declaration of independence." But, President Landsbergis was still urged by the West, "To find, a fair and objective way out!" And as he continually confirmed, "the offered solutions were neither fair nor objective!" Nothing it seems has changed in the Western powers' attitude towards the smaller nations. Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 16 September 2010 1:17:22 PM
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Foxy, this mouse is on the attack ;-)
Please see what you think of this http://www.petitiononline.com/voice4wp Posted by Daeron, Wednesday, 22 September 2010 4:41:12 AM
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The SMH & The Age have front page stories today about a repressive para-military and intelligence unit called Detachment 88 or Densus 88 being funded with Australian taxes. I recall years ago reading a Harnsard report about $millions in Australian aid to the Indonesian military for things including cyanide! The Indonesian military is NOT mean to be mining gold in West Papua, and the giant Freeport Corporation is able to manufacture or buy it's own. I only know one other use for cynanide; and nobody would have noticed if entire valleys in Papua suddenly went silent.
What the heck has the Australian government been funding. And will the Gillard government STOP aiding and abating colonial rule of our neighbours in West Papua?