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The Forum > General Discussion > Food and Hygiene - is our reaction over the top.

Food and Hygiene - is our reaction over the top.

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rehctub,
AH you are a butcher, explains the line of the post. I am a trained environmental health officer. I get your problem with vermin but it always comes down to the same issue of cost and the preparedness of others to co operate with cleaning.
Ready to eat food outlets are under just as many reg's as you are and in some ways more, Restaurants though tend to slip the tight regulation that takeaways do because food is prepare to order and served immediately.
Your main point though is very correct, personal hygien in the community is appalling. As i said earlier most food poisoning happens at home because people do things like buy mince from you then leave it in the fridge for a day then make dinner from it. Most people don't understand about micro-biology and infected surface area that makes mince so lethal.
Next time you are at your local shopping centre that has renovated it's toilets recently, you will notice that you can now enter go to the toilet and wash and dry your hands without having to touch any surfaces. Appreciate the cost of this to the centre management as well as the increased up keep on electronic taps and dryers.
The cost of public health is enormous and most people don't ever see what it does, it keeps our communities from outbreaks of serious disease and many deaths due to poisoning. Imagine if we had no immunisation program, the polio problem would be hugh with the way no one seems to wash their hands any more.
I feel for you and competition you face from the big grocery stores. I always buy my meat from my local butcher because his quality is better and i have built a trust in him.
Posted by nairbe, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 5:23:29 PM
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Nairbe >>Ready to eat food outlets are under just as many reg's as you are and in some ways more

I am sorry to disgree with you here, but I do.

Take a 'meat pie'. They should by law be stored and sold at 65DegC+, yet, if they were, they would burn you so badly that you would require medical treatment, so, they rarely are.

Take your local market stall. Do you really think they follow correct proceedures at all times and, do you think they are policed enough?

People buy food from them, so do I. So why all the fuss about registered food outlets, when these casual operators don't have to comply.

Most don't even have running water, let alone hot and cold!

In any case, it is wrong for people to expect top class hygiene if they themselves fail to uphold these standards.

How many people buy from market stalls and eat their foods without first washing their hands. Who knows, they may have touched a kitten, bird or puppie just prior.

So, the question begs, are they complaing because of poor hygiene, or, is it simply because they are a business and should do better.

I feel there is often a double standard here.

Also, how many here have been to asia and bragged about the cheap food, often cooked in the gutter.

The saying there is often, 'the dirtiest wok has the best food'.

I must stress though that highly in favor of targeting dodgy operators back here.

But where do we draw the line. Surely inacurate records, they being the most common of non-conformities, does not warrent naming and shaming.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 6:33:57 PM
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Yes take away food should be kept ar 65 Deg. Today i bought something at my local takeaway and noted the lack of heat in the product. Generally though i do usually have to allow the pies i buy at my local bakery to cool for a minute or two before eating as they are to hot. All food boxes or bain maries are meant to have a thermometer visible in the box and a record of what time a product was cooked. Whether these regulations are complied with or not is another issue as is whether all butchers comply with the regulations relating to the use of a certain chemical in mince to keep it looking red. It is hard work if you follow the regulations correctly and i applaud you for doing so. For the others they are running the gauntlet all the time and if caught the penalty can be harsh though rarely is for first offences.
I am currently not in the industry as i prefer to be working more physically, i know things are changing all the time and i am quite out of date. None the less EHA is a good source of information. http://www.aieh.org.au/index.php
The naming and shaming of people for the poor keeping of records seems a trifle harsh, but for the falsification of records it is appropriate.
Posted by nairbe, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 7:51:23 PM
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rehctub,

It is accepted that there are many food handling premises where hygiene is very poor. Having done food deliveries and waiting on tables as a student I can say without hesitation that few people would eat out if they ever paid an impromptu visit to many, make that most, kitchen and food storage areas before the day begins. I am the first to applaud Gordon Ramsay for his service to the trade and to patrons, by being the only chef on TV to reveal the most obvious problem in food preparation.

In the Australian context, some establishments seem to get a lot of warnings, even over serious matters, before any formal action is taken. There are people who should be disqualified from ever being involved in the food industry.

On other hand anyone who has had anything to do with the export requirements for meat would be aghast at the meat handling practices of retail butchers. For instance, just how often are those knives and steels cleaned? Not trying to have a shot at butchers, but our food standards are not as onerous as they might be.

Where rehctub could complain is concerning the lack of inspection at source and poor description of foods brought into Australia. Other countries and in particular the United States use import standards as effective tariff barriers against our exports, but the Australian government (particularly the LNP) on the other hand is quick to take the side of 'business' (who are taking profits out of Australia) over and above our own producers and consumers.
Posted by Cornflower, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 8:13:28 PM
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rechtub take a step back.
read your last two posts.
then the first.
all over the shop like those cockies bloke.
in the end we all agree ,you too we need more not less regulations.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 6:07:32 AM
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Belly,
I get the feeling that rehctub feels that there is an unfair focus on butchers over other types of food handling businesses. I can understand his frustration as the methods of policing the problem are casual and normally a business will know that an inspection is coming and can clean up for it. Mind you butchers are just as bad and are under the HACCP system of auditing not inspection. The more engaged they are in the system the more straight forward it will be.
Otherwise i can not support this assertion, have a look at the regulations involved in food preparation for the elderly and hospitals, Hot cart systems and the auditing requirements for these businesses to remain in operation.
We have very good public health but can always do more but the usual question must be asked, who is to pay for it. The cost of increasing the regularity of audits and inspections would be considerable and would in the case of HACCP be passed on to the business. I don't see that going down to well. Inspection costs would fall on council and that to would not work as council have had their responsibilities increased over the past 20 years but not their budgets.
I see the best outcome is to require all food outlets and restaurants to engage in the auditing system and increase the required standard. This would force pricing up but someone has to pay and as usual in Australia it is always a good idea until we have to pay for it then it's that over regulating over taxing governments fault.
Posted by nairbe, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 7:18:49 AM
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