@ Pelican, thanks for your kind words.

“I agree about the need for some new dogma or at least revisit some old dogma and modify it a bit (or something like that). “

Yes, but unless the general public start to get a better understanding of that bigger picture, and in real terms, not conspiratorial ones, then they will remain ill-equipped to make informed decisions, and so be just as easily lead. And I hazard a guess that Global Warming is part of that new dogma, with carbon trading and a host of other issues. All I will say about Global Warming is this…the planet has been much hotter and much colder on numerous occasions prior to the existence of Man, as well has having many variances during our time. We don’t know how to reclaim desert, preserve our natural environments, but we know what the planet is doing within its own cycle and our impact upon that?!? I don’t think so.

However, that does NOT mean we shouldn’t clean-up our act and live in a more environmentally friendly way. But it requires pragmatism. We also make 30,000 odd by-products from oil, including the plastics of our computers. So oil is not just for our fuel/energy and lubrication, but a plethora of other common items. It means literally a re-fashioning of the things that we use that are oil-based. So, in understanding that (hopefully), it means that we must look towards that re-fashioning, the new technologies, and re-modelling of old, with the focus upon longevity, not consumption, of those 30,000 odd by-products and plastics, and everything else we use, particularly with so many developing countries coming on-board the Industrialized Capitalist Express.

Try selling THAT to big business! I can easily sell it to the socialist-minded, the poverty stricken and the reasonably minded that have no pecuniary interests. But most of those have no influence. So it requires the masses to understand to be able to create the political momentum. (Where’s my soap-box and loud-haler?)

TBC...

And so it’s lead us back to what it’s all about...pecuniary interests. Like they always say…if you want to know who has what to gain, then just follow the money, remembering that everyone has their price. It’s just that in national and international scales, it’s often in amounts that are mind-bogglingly big.

We also forget that the price of petrol at the pump is about 60% government taxes and excises. That’s’ huge revenue for a government to forgo, and so other taxes have to be made-up to replace them, which of course the average Schmoe is not going to understand or appreciate. So governments are in a Catch-22 situation too, of being damned if they do, and damned if they don’t, just on an economic level, which translates into a political dilemma. Economically, it’s not in any government’s interest to lose oil as a cash-cow due its significant contributions to revenues, and the political awkwardness of attempting to introduce new taxes, or dramatically increase existing ones, to replace those revenues.

This of course, is but a miniscule part of the picture.

“The reason why governments harp on about economic management is to detract from any other possible reforms and it is about perception of economic management rather than the reality. “

True. There’s hardly anyone in any government that actually is qualified to understand anything at all about economics. The last person that comes to mind is John Hewson, so they were quick to rid themselves of someone that understood what he was talking about.

TBC...

“And I agree with Al on this, the economic management rhetoric is pushed out to win elections and we all sit back and nod like sock puppets at how Howard was a good economic manager but never ask why nothing was spent on actually improving infrastructure, hospitals or on other reforms so taxpayers actually got value for money. Not arguing Labor did much better on this front just highlighting the mantra about Howard economic managing mania.”

As long as the “we” doesn’t include me, I totally agree with you both. I appreciate getting out of debt, what I don’t appreciate are the extreme methods. Howard got us out of debt in their early days of office, by dumping our gold reserve onto the global market. The credit we had was created by the raping and pillaging of infrastructure…public health, education and many public works, while feeding private education, health and industry…the loss of free university!! And then he raped more to feed an unjust war so he could feel important on the world stage with GWB. He saw himself having a place in history, while I saw him as an ankle…three feet lower than a….(you work it out). Plus he sold us out to the US in those “Free-Trade Agreements”.

Fraser sold us out with the Lima Declaration, Keating with the deregulation of banking and business, and Howard with the Free Trade Agreements. Bob just partied from the America’s Cup, onwards (or was that me?)

You are welcome M C , it is just good to hear some good Ideas for a change ; Be it I do not know what methodology can be used other than that of time , and keeping in mind an optimistic long view for the future , and as M Rothbard had said in his papers ; The old guard is Moribund and doomed to collapse eventually ;
That part is the most frustrating and the most embarrassing part for Australia as a Whole.

So until then , Chinn up , maintain the course and keep the fires of Logical deductively and Ethical standards well alive. Armed with the knowledge that Reason will win ; When is the complex conundrum , I cannot predict that unfortunately . hahahah :-) I am not Annuitant as is The Ideologies of Utopian war lords creed.

A long hard battle ahead , and I suppose there is time for more Good Ideas that with stands the judgement of truth.

Mindless cruelty fantastic thread and fantastic points!

I might reinforce the concept that people don't seem to get is that big business has zero power in a country compared to a government. It's that the governments personally, would rather work with them than with us purely out of their own free will.

We are probably among the less politically and corporately regulated countries on the planet- as a result we get governments who are free to not lift a finger, and high profile people can do whatever they like (including at our expense) so long as they have the money.

I would, ad nauseum point the problem at not enough Democracy- for both restricting business practices and influence (it's harder to bribe a whole COUNTRY out of something to its better good than the minister in charge) and for political conduct (they can't dance around a few key issues and pretend they MIGHT do something to get elected- not to mention Conroy would never get anywhere).

@ King Hazza, thanks for your kind words.

“I might reinforce the concept that people don't seem to get is that big business has zero power in a country compared to a government. It's that the governments personally, would rather work with them than with us purely out of their own free will.”

I would actually word it the other way…that government has zero power. And my example of how the mining industry deposed Rudd is the perfect example. But if you would like more, here are a few others;

*Rupert Murdoch…it is inconceivable what power this man wields across the globe through his media interests. He has the power to put governments in and out of office at a whim through nothing more than editorial comment through those media interests. He owns Sky in the UK and Western Europe, and Fox in America and Australia, plus his newspaper and magazine interests in those places.

*The banks…the Reserve Bank of Australia is the representative of ALL banks, and is the advisor to government on economic policy. Let’s look at that…that means that the banking industry is the law, not the government. Government merely informs us of what the “reason” is for their increased incomes from our mortgages. And please note, when has a bank shown a “loss”, compared to any other industry or business? They have the perfect “inside” run.

*And in this country, resource companies. Again, if you were to review what I commented on about the BHP/Billiton deal, and how our currency was manipulated down until the very day that this deal was done…the deal was sealed the very day Australia hit its historic all-time low of 48.7 cents US, and did nothing but steadily rise from the following day, for the next 18 or so months after that deal, other than some other external market variations. Many would call it “coincidence”. In big business deals performed amongst companies whose assets exceed that of an entire country’s, there is NO coincidence.

TBC...