Right now we are bogged down in politics, but we talk about a great deal more.
Do not however relax we are bound to be hooked on this subject for at least three years.
We live in interesting times.
Thought I would rattle the tin,it is a job you do often in my job.
Always for a good reason, now GY do not stop the thread it needs to be said.
I also want to ask that we not ignore politics but we rattle our brains too, for subjects that do not divide us.
At least do not set us against one another.
Pre election I said we are the lucky country,we may not be at one another's throats after, well got that wrong.
Remember even if your team gets the opposition bench's half of us voted that way.
Lets contribute to the thread and OLO, if you can make a donation why not?
part of the cost of one daily paper would help or half of that.
Those who can not should not be excluded in time ,just over 12 months I will not be able but give if you can.
Tell us why you post here and how OLO may look in ten years,rechtub, mate, how about doing a bar b q for OLO?
I will not come don't want to ruin our friendship sorry about your team, went off too early?

Verbal tennis, not just a sport but a mind expanding pass time.
One of the joys of OLO.
I hit the tin myself before asking it of others.
No fortune but every bit helps.
If we can surely we should help?
GY has big plans, I am happy to have heard them, but just to be able to continue to learn to think and say what we think is worth something.
Tuesday, By mid afternoon not much more we will know who governs us.
If you think I am about to predict that one you are very wrong.
But seconds after the insults will start.
That out come I Hope will be the start of getting my party back to the place it was just 6 months ago
In fact it will either way.
Refugees from conservative ranks will either return with real power or continue to have that power on my side of the house.
No rubbish please give them air, in the end if they are the men I think they are they act for their electorates and Australia.
It may not work, but the dream every one can be happy is fantasy.
Give a few bob to OLO if you can, unlike the share market you will get benefits every time you log on.
Belly

Dear Belly,

Thanks for this thread and for being
so open and honest.

Today, lawyers, accountants, and other middle-class
professionals make up the vast majority of members
in parliament. This doesn't mean that they're not
wise of knowledgeable, far from it. However, their
life experiences and lifestyles are uniformly
middle-class, and therefore it is the interest of this
class that they tend to promote. Some of us would take
this outcome to represent a loss of the diversity of
knowledge and interests that parliaments need. Yet there
doesn't appear to be an answer yet as to what we should
do to improve parliamentary democracy.
The solution has to be to improve the
knowledge across the board.

The democratic experiment should be pushed to deliver much
more than it does at present. It shouldn't be curtailed
as some conservative thinkers want.

Dear Belly

Thank you for starting this thread - the spirit and intention are both generous and pertinent.

Please read the following link to a post I made earlier, I think it is important for you to know (not the first part as it relates to the topic, but the second part):

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3939&page=0#97279

Thanks Severin, we each and every one of us, have to let our selves learn.
While my early posts can be seen to be disjointed and very badly spelled this is not my first forum.
I about 4 times, thought of leaving this one as I did all the rest, except Australian politics, it folded under me.
I hope examinator will re consider.
I was wrong to seek confrontation, it never resolves anything.
Few of us think about it, can not out smart those we have conflict with.
And how many of us would ask that freedom to express them selves be taken away from those we do not see eye to eye with.
GY has plans, hopes, dreams, that one day soon may let us send internal e mails in private.
What ever funds are given are for the daily running of this site, not to install a swimming pool at GYs home.
In my work roll almost every month tragic things happen and we beg for funds sell raffle tickets, yes beg in lunch rooms.
One day with luck and help my dream of individual workplaces getting the best act of mate ship I know of, a Aluminum plants donation of ten dollars from every worker, for how many weeks it takes, over 900 workers, in every workplace.
Examinator come back we want you to, and lets every one of us consider if we can give something to our online home so it grows as we too will.
I can not, ever give out my e mail no not fear but just respect for my job. but no one wants the trouble that can bring.

I too was sorry to read about Examinator. He was always a great leveler in the long debates.

I have also thought about stopping my involvement in this forum recently because I find myself getting too annoyed with one or two posters that I normally just deal with ok.
I have been sent to the naughty corner for the first time :(

Then I thought of all those posters who often bring me back down to earth- such as Foxy, CJ, Severin, Pynchme, Belly, Pericles and Johnny Rotten, to name a few. You guys make it all worth it.

Great to see you back too Severin.
I feel like we are in sync with most topics here!

Keep up the good work Graham.

Dear Severin,

Welcome back! You've been sorely missed
and I second Suze's feelings. There have been times
when things have gotten out of hand - and the feelings
get bruised and you begin to think, "Who needs this?"
But then it only takes a few posters like the ones
Suze mentioned - that bring you back to reality and you
begin to realize that this Forum is better than most,
and its the people that make it special.

I am sorry that Examinator has opted out.
I hope he knows how we all feel about him,
and will re-consider, because we do need voices
of reason, like his, on this Forum.

Dear Belly,

As for you - well you know how I feel about you
dear friend, and I'll always be grateful for
your friendship, understanding, and support.

Well said Foxy- and ditto re what you said about Belly.

I have just had an awful experience when I looked at another forum- it shall remain nameless.

They were talking about an Iranian woman already condemned to death for adultery who may be facing another sentence of 99 lashes because she was photographed without a head scarf.

Some of the comments about this woman and her photo were truly disgusting. It made me glad that such comments would not be tolerated on this forum, and that I am lucky I found it.

Dear Suze,

I'm sorry that you had that awful experience.
Things like that bring you back to earth
with a thud, and as you said - make you
realize how lucky we really are.

Life can be ugly at times, but like you,
I'd prefer not to be exposed to it.
I prefer to see the world through
rose-coloured glasses, and believe that
people are basically decent.

On a hill outside Camden NSW or was it closer to Picton?
A tree grew shaped by the cows eating it it looked like a mushroom.
A Sydney based firm, very big one, used it to say its business slogan.
While live I grow, maybe learn too.
I stole that slogan, I did not live far from it, within a hundred miles most of my childhood.
I have learned conflicts , not wars personal conflicts, can not be won by stubbornness.
I have seen much of the male tough guy rubbish we Aussies think is funny as I think the remarks about that poor unfortunate woman, but words flow faster for fools.
The idea any female in the world should be treated badly is a measure of the lack of humanity of the fools involved.
We have better standards here.
I simply ask we support the forum.
GY must at times shudder at my frankness and truly held thoughts about conservative Australia but we have quality here let us support it.
PS almost certain some one poisoned the while I live I grow tree.

Belly

I guess that few of us have got any idea about how well OLO is doing via profits from advertising and how much difference it would make if more of us contributed on a regular basis.

My feeling is that if a poster spends a few hours a week by way of writing posts and just being involved with OLO, then that’s a pretty big contribution.

I would hope that my input over the last five years has spurred debate and attracted more posters and advertisers to this site. Who knows if it has or not, but I’m sure that on average, this sort of input from contributors does do these things.

I’ve tried to help in another way too – by offering my suggestions and feedback quite copiously on technical threads.

So while there’s nothing wrong with you or Graham asking or even pleading for financial assistance for OLO, I don’t feel inclined to…. unless it can be asserted that the site is in danger of folding if posters don’t offer financial assistance.

continued

While I obviously think that OLO is great, I’ve got to say that my recent suspension, my first, when I didn’t think I was infringing any rules and didn’t even consider the possibility of being warned over what I had written let alone suspended without warning, didn’t help.

Perhaps a sort of gold membership should be offered for those to contribute financially, with a little gold icon placed next to their moniker at the base of every post that they write or something like that…if they want it. Maybe this would attract a lot more financial contributors.

But a strong set of clearly elucidated rules and a good regulatory regime is as least as important, so that posters know where the boundaries are and cannot inadvertently cross them and find themselves suspended… and offended.

With this in place, posters, article writers and advertisers should be abundant and OLO should thrive. …. even more that it currently is, and as far as I can tell, it is doing pretty well.

On Graham’s recent thread about the moderation of OLO I suggested that if posters were just willing to hit the little red cross that is present at the bottom of every post whenever they thought a post infringed the rules, then regulation of the site would be excellent…. and we’d never again encounter a great deletion and mass suspension event! To my dismay, people just didn’t want to support this sort of ‘community policing’!

I’d think that this sort of regulatory input from contributors, as well as just being contributors by writing posts, is far more important than a few small financial contributions.

Welcome back Sev.

So… what’s the story with Examinator?

Foxy, Belly, Suzeonline, Ludwig

Thank you for your welcome back. I do not know how long I will be contributing to OLO either.

Of the many people here, the above mentioned along with people like Oliver, CJ Morgan, Bugsy, Yabby, TurnRightTurnLeft (thought of renting out your moniker to the 3 Independents?), DavidF, George, .... the list goes on. I am sure I am speaking for many when I say much thought, research and consideration is provided here - gratis.

I am also thinking of the time involved in running a discussion of one's own choosing - I have not had the time or energy to monitor any topics lately - I do know that they require a great deal of input from the author. Although there are those who just 'set and forget'. I am sure that people are aware that OLO is a mere shell without the regular contributors.

Sure, all of us has written the quick aside, the facetious comment, but we know how much time we invest when searching for the truth - checking on claims made by others and trying to create a cogent opinion within the constraints of 350 word segments.

There is much I would like to say, but am no longer free to do so. Ludwig, Examinator has made his decision - his reasons are his to provide - I am only the messenger. If you wish to contact him, you can.

I am sure that a honorific such as a gold icon placed next to a person's moniker, as Ludwig suggested, would attract such luminaries as Col Rouge (couldn't resist).

Anyone who wishes to contact anyone else may send a request to the OLO editors - I am sure they will, at least, pass on any emails. Then it is up to the recipient if they wish to reply.

I have occasionally considered making a donation to OLO, but I haven't and won't due to two main reasons:

1. The increasingly right wing bias of the site
2. The heavyhanded and unfair actions of the Editor in chief and moderator.

While I'll continue to participate for the time being, the chances of me supporting OLO financially are very remote indeed.

I think some people have already contributed. They know who they are, and Graham knows who they are. That is all that is necessary.

Maimonides the Jewish sage outlined eight degrees of charity. The seventh degree was:

http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker/rmbmzdkh.html

8) Below this is the one who gives tzedaka to the poor, but does not know to whom he gives, nor does the recipient know his benefactor. For this is performing a mitzva for the sake of Heaven. This is like the Secret [Anonymous] Office in the Temple. There the righteous gave secretly, and the good poor drew sustenance anonymously. This is much like giving tzedaka through a tzedaka box. One should not put into the box unless he knows that the one responsible for the box is faithful and wise and a proper leader like Rabbi Hananya ben Teradyon.

I regard GY as a proper leader. If you can contribute do so. Nobody else need know who you are. Your reward is knowing you have helped give people a voice.

I have occasionally considered making a donation to OLO, but I haven't and won't due to two main reasons:

1. The increasingly right wing bias of the site
2. The heavyhanded and unfair actions of the Editor in chief and moderator.

While I'll continue to participate for the time being, the chances of me supporting OLO financially are very remote indeed.

Thanks CJ. saved me typing it out.

I will give my views, as every poster has.
GY is conservative as is his right, heard him on radio national seen him on TV.
He put this site together,he did it not us.
I value OLO, it is what it is, the best forum this country has.
GY has found me in need of a talking to, I have not clicked the box to put my name on the sponsors lists.
See I gave for OLO, too late Ludwig to give after the bottom falls out of the bucket.
C J Morgan I am not of your left, but ask this, do you think we should ask that a left wing bias replace the right wing one.
More joy comes from peeing in your neighbors pool than your own.
I will forever say fair balanced control is better than opting to be offended by a faction.
IF I once told GY you bar me I will still contribute to OLO.
Free speech is worth it.
I left a forum mid battle, called your rights at work.
Believe me CJM I am telling it like it is, a few very few fools insulted us all, by offering a reward for some one to kill a visiting American politician.
A few communists blacked the union movement and I saw more damage from the very left than good so I left, trouble came and that site while proudly winning the war has never got back to its glory days.
As I walk the streets of my red neck area proudly in my union colors I will continue to highlight the silliness of SOME conservatives here.
And Last post in this thread never not ever complain about OLO if you can afford to donate but will not.
proposed upgrade was not just e mails.
Take your message to the enemy bloke its more fun,you have an advantage left of center people have higher IQ

Hi there Belly...

I was just browsing through the many posts herein, when I saw that you'd mentioned (in part) the famous Anthony Hordens tree, situated near the NSW town of Picton.

Now I reside in Melbourne and I'm retired. However, in another life, I was with, Liverpool Detectives. One day, I attended a job, to conduct (further) enquires into several episodes of alleged vandalism to this very substantial and famous, Anthony Hordens tree.

Cutting a long story short, it appeared that it was initally 'ring barked', together with other physical damage occasioned to its substantial trunk. This was after several earlier attempts to destroy it over a period of some weeks.

This certainly was the opinion of an Arborist, who had been finally consulted by Anthony Hordens, in order to try and save it. After all, it was the official Trade Mark of Anthony Hordens - 'While I live, I'll grow', as you had said, Belly !

If my memory serves me correctly, I don't recall they ever actually determined those responsible unfortunately. We did have a few 'possibles' in the frame for it at the time, but couldn't prove it ? It was truly a stunning, massive and beautiful old tree, and personally I was indeed saddened that ultimately it could not be saved. Perhaps today, it may have been possible ?

Even back then, nothing seemed sacred ? I hope this helps answer your enquiry Belly, and I also agree with the sentiments expressed by those other contributors herein - that your ideals are fine. Keep it up.

Cheers...Sung Wu.

<< More joy comes from peeing in your neighbors pool than your own. >>

Aaaaa haaaaa hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

Ha

Haha

Hahahahaha

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

…..uuuuuh ….

Hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa!!

Hwaaw

Huh

Oow

Love it Belly!! { : > )

Hi Belly,

<< C J Morgan I am not of your left, but ask this, do you think we should ask that a left wing bias replace the right wing one. >>

No, but I'm not alone in noticing a distinct shift to the Right from OLO's formerly avowedly Centrist position.

<< More joy comes from peeing in your neighbors pool than your own. >>

Perhaps, but I wouldn't pay for the privilege!

*1. The increasingly right wing bias of the site*

CJ, I think that is a little unfair. I am hardly left wing,
but I have been barred a couple of times now.

I see it more as a case like squabbling kids, when the
parents send all of them to their rooms, no matter who
dunnit.

So I try to see the big picture here. At the end of the
day, I accept that OLO is Graham's baby, without his effort
I could not post here and I do enjoy it. So I thank him
for that.

I might well agree to disagree with Graham about his decisions,
but that is more about questions to do with morality, sense
of humour etc, not about politics.

At the end of the day, I accept that his role is not an easy
one, there are more things to consider, then I do from
my perspective. Fair enough.

In the past I did contribute to OLO financially, but that is
some time ago now. Graham has never expressed the urgent need of $
to keep things running, as the place is broke. So I assumed that
advertising Dollars were in fact enough to keep the wheels
turning. I stand to be corrected.

If the crunch came and I needed to contribute to keep the forum
going, sure I would. But as the wheel is not squeaking, it gets
only minimal oil so to speak.

An interesting thread.

I have not been banned, just deleted a couple of times, & advised I was close.

I find the comments of some of you lefties, that the forum has moved to the right almost a revelation. You see, I find the balance is well to the left.

I guess the way you see something leaning depends on where you stand. I have seen that some people on here genuinely believe that our ABC is somewhere near centre. From where I stand it is leaning so far left, that it's damn near horizontal.

I have also done a double take when some here have described our lefty print media as right wing, & realised that this was a heart felt complaint.

OLO has opened my eyes. I have lead a sheltered life, at least since I finished Uni, & did not even realise how venomously left some Ozzies are, until I felt the hate in some posts.

Fortunately most here simply have a different mind set, without the venom, which makes life interesting, but not unpleasant. Long may it last.

o sung wo you bought me back, thanks your news was welcome.
Boy one day I would like to talk to you.
See my childhood, part of it,was spent In Bargo Yannderra Tarmore, Yerinbool, dad was a railway man.
C J Morgan, its more than possible you see me lurching to the right and part of the problem.
So be it, look around if OLO is leaning right how can we describe the printed media?
Gobbles could not do worse.
Extremes right or left are minority views forever.
Sadly more are hermit crab like,come out look around and retreat back into the shell never truly understanding the world of politics.
I do not see a bias, then again I do not inhabit the articles part of the forum.
We pay fees to join a club to do so very much.
I see I will not convince some but underline this
threads/posts continually crop up asking for more from OLO
Those who can but will not contribute should not ask for more.
I feel deep down a very real fear, this mornings Canberra developments will not help but harm this country no matter what side takes the poison chalice.
And here I can say what I think, more power to OLO.

Yabby, I have no intention of discussing particular moderation decisons. To do so would be to contravene one of the unwritten rules of OLO, which nonetheless would be likely to attract a penalty of suspension.

I stated the reasons why I'm unlikely to donate to OLO, in response to Belly's thread. You and Hasbeen see things differently, but you would, given your political positions.

Fair enough. I disagree with you, and stand by my reasons for not supporting OLO financially. That's fair enough too.

Well said Yabby. I agree on all points.

If it came to the crunch, I’d be happy to contribute financially.

I also just wish to goodness that OLO contributors would commit to helping Graham with moderating the site so that no punish-all-contributors-no-matter-whodunit event ever happens again and no one gets suspended without a warning or two first, even if they have blatantly broken the rules.

.
Hasbeen, CJ, I don’t see a shift to the right on this forum. I don’t like this left and right terminology, but I think that it is reasonably left-leaning.

In some ways it is nowhere near left-leaning enough for my liking (re: population and sustainability issues). In other ways it is too left-leaning (defence of onshore asylum seeking instead of channelling our input into refugee issues through our formal offshore aid programs), but overall it is pretty good… and diverse in the range of views.

I had the most amazing experience with another forum recently - Agmates – which proved to be no place for anyone with any sort of leftish tendencies. That experience certainly reinforced the level-headedness of OLO.

I differ on who should judge a post or its author.
A failure in forums is moderators who are part of a click, overlooking mates bad posts.
Should I get a spell in the sin bin I will cop it sweet.
I have doubts OLO is more than Representative of those who post here.
Yes GY sees the world differently than me but he will grow out of that.
Congrats to the rainbow coalition, love it!
In the same sentence as he said GREENLABINDYS are a coalition That man of fun Barnaby said his mob won more seats, more votes, do the maths, not a chance if we are in the same bed.

Can not get my mind away from some posts here I would like more to donate.
I am startled by the thought CJ Morgans references to right wing slant may include me!
I am more like new Labor than old, never going to be able to put my arm around the greens.
Yes conservatives who currently control Liberalism are not far away i from Americas tea party.
But my right wing carbuncle the DLP and its Catholic Church kept my party out and conservatives in for 23 years.
Extremes from the left is no less a threat than the right.
GY, he has said it often agrees with nothing I post,I find his standpoint often weird.
A poster once claimed oh yes he did, I was a child molester, I had to be reminded some in my party in fact had been before the post was removed.
But I see little slant little intrusiveness no way having a separate forum, a home for lost Lefty's to gather and mumble about the majority being unclean is going to change anything.
And the tea party types are,while likely to see Obama is a one termer
More harm in fact will come to America from its lurch to the right than the GFC.
I am not right proudly,, and not too far left.
I live in a real world one that openly sees both betray the ideals they claim.
A few weeks before fair work Australia's changes[with knowing planed to give it an advantage,a left wing group put pen to paper STEALING FROM ITS MEMBERS travel casual loading and much more.
Why?self interest drive them not workers rights.
I know no one glove fits all we Aussies are over extremism and I value an honest look at issues not a one sided my way or no way.
Greens however will both bring improvements and great pain to this Parliament.
Mid next year if they are brave if Australia counts they will craft a DD election and still control the senate after it.
Let us reconsider is OLO worth giving for?