"Show her face to the security guard" would become "in a booth affording privacy", which would then become "however the guard would have to be a woman", which would become "and the woman would have to be Muslim" and on and on it goes.

The Americans call it 'being nickeled and dimed to death'.

HI Cornflower... we have had our disagreements for sure..but on this one, you absolutely summed it up... no one has done a better job of it.

Well done.

You are on a roll there Cornflower.. your other earlier point:

//There is nothing discriminatory in applying the rules for security. If surveillance cannot easily identify, there is always an increased risk.//

Is also very relevant to street level surveillance, specially in the light of the potential for Islamist terrorists to use such disguise to prevent legitimate security records as they might be 'casing' a particular target or.. trial running a journey.

I absolutely believe that people who normally wear Bike helmets must remove them as soon as they get off the bike..and that no such equipment should be allowed on any person walking down the street.

So.. you have strengthened the case against the Burqa in public places forcefully and persuasively.

I find your reasoning irresistable. Let's hope bigotry does not cloud other minds from the same clear thinking.

@ Grateful, you said:

"I understand where you're (@ cornflower) coming from, but then the lady would be exposed to everyone in the bank."

well...duhhhh.. of COURSE she would be so exposed..and rightly so.
We don't bend our rules for the sake of a misplaced idea of 'religious obedience'..sorry but no.

Our wishes ? damn straight YES 'our' wishes as a democratic society and through our elected representatives where we have the rule of law.

Grateful.. why not fess up and clarify one matter.. DO you believe the Quran/Hadith etc require the full covering of the face ?

You do..or you don't. If you do...then we know where you are coming from.. if you DON'T ? then why would you support a Burqa on 'religious' grounds at all?

Well? Do you believe it is a requirement?

Rich 10: <<Could anyone tell me if honor killings have any place in this debate. As they are part of sharia law.>>

The "debate" is really about another opportunity to stoke the flames of hatred with lies, such as the above, and distortions. Look at the people who initiatiated the debate. It is initiated and perpetuated not by those with a concern for the welfare of woman, nor even by those concerned with security, but those who want to make trouble and cause conflict.

If people are really concerned with the welfare of Muslim women then they should follow the advice of Naomi Wolf:

<<These women are exactly the kind of leaders that everyone should be cultivating and supporting, rather than overlooking because of a belief that they cannot exist in the Middle East. We would do better to find out more about them than to waste our time on superficial debates about how they -- and many others who are just as accomplished -- should dress.>>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/what-do-muslim-women-want_b_309979.html

Pericles,

Perhaps you missed my earlier suggestion: that they be required to show themselves to security (male or female) and provide an ID which they would collect on the way out. Shariah law would not require security to be of one particular gender.

Cornflower,
You need to be a bit more accomodating. The women who cover with a niqab are not seeking to operate in cognito. They are simply giving a clear message that they are off limits to men other than their husband and close relatives...a part of their worship of their God. Otherwise they mix with family and friends and are quite social. They can be house-wives or graduates. Other than the security issue (just in case the robber gets an idea of wearing a niqab to work), there is no harm to society that would justify imposing a blanket ban on the niqab.

AGIR

<<.. "Show her face to the security guard"? if she can show her face to some infidel at the door.. it seems a tad inconsistent to then decline to expose her face to others. >>

No, its matter of the public interest taking precedance over the interests of the woman if this form of dress is considered to pose a security risk (has anyone for the police or banks expressed these concerns?).I'm in agreement with Pericles on this point.

I'm simply arguing that it is a fair and just solution which minimises the disruption to the woman's life. Hence, the proposal above.

Finally,

Let's put our cards on the table. Who here can say that they have expressed concern about the sexual harrassment of woman in the workplace or domestic violence at home. Surely there is enough of it about to be concerned.

Why do i ask? Obviously i'm very sceptical about the motives of those who purport to be concerned with the welfare of Muslim women or the threat that they pose to bank and national security by donning the niqab.

AGIR
<<@ Grateful, you said:

"I understand where you're (@ cornflower) coming from, but then the lady would be exposed to everyone in the bank."

well...duhhhh.. of COURSE she would be so exposed..and rightly so.
We don't bend our rules for the sake of a misplaced idea of 'religious obedience'..sorry but no.>>

A verse for one who seeks to dictate what is and what is not appropriate 'religious observence':

<<Many of the people of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. Forgive and be indulgent (toward them) until Allah give command.Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.>> (Qur'aan 2:109)

And the Qur'aan continues

<<Establish worship, and pay the poor-due; and whatever of good ye send before (you) for your souls, ye will find it with Allah.
Lo! Allah is Seer of what ye do. >>(Qur'aan 2:110)

You say the grapes are sour (their 'religious obedience' is misplaced), but the reality is that you are the one who is bitter.

Let the women pratice their religion as they see fit, for they are doing no-one any harm, but rather providing a timely reminder for us all to reflect on our purpose in this life and what is and what is not important.