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The Forum > General Discussion > Public schools slugged double the price for BER projects

Public schools slugged double the price for BER projects

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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/public-schools-slugged-double-the-price-for-ber-projects/story-fn59niix-1225903680753

Here we go again. As in Victoria, the parts of the BER that Julia Gillard's team managed twice as much as anyone else's.

If there was any doubt that the Labor party was lost in the economic wilderness, here it is.

They couldn't organise a booze up in a brewery!
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 7:43:48 AM
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And The Australian couldnt lie straight in bed.
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 2:31:49 PM
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Sorry mikk the Australian can lie any place any time.
Shadow minister has an indifference to truth but the tide is swinging back to Labor.
Seems lies and mud throwing are not working and SM is miffed.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 4:16:45 PM
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19/5/13 Expect Us
Posted by Anonymous190513, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 6:59:50 PM
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Come on SM you are so desperate to push this line and it gets no where. Stop quoting news paper articles that seem to have a similar problem.

Refer to the BER interim report.

NSW catholic schools, 725 projects at an average cost of $1 244 137.94.
NSW Independent Schools, 327 projects at $1 480 122.34
NSW Government Schools, 2366 projects at $1 278 951.82

Yes i know there is more to it and there has been some issues but not even vaguely along the lines that you so desperately want to exist.
Down load report at http://www.bertaskforce.gov.au/pages/publications.aspx
Posted by nairbe, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 7:45:11 PM
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Nairbe,

If you read the report, and look at the cost comparisons, it actually confirms the Australian's story.

The NSW public school buildings were roughly 150% to 200% of the cost of similar size buildings in the private sector. This is not even considering the higher requirements of the independent schools' buildings.

Also, only 19% of public BER projects started on time, and apparently 40% is still unspent, much of the "stimulus" occurred when the economy was far from recession.

Looking back at the stimulus spending, the assessment is that:
- Far too much was spent,
- Most of the spending occurred too late,
- What was spent was managed badly and achieved poor value for money.
- Economic infrastructure was ignored (transport etc)

In the words of my son: An Epic Fail.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 12 August 2010 6:07:29 AM
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"More than a third of NSW public school principals say they received a building under the BER program that was not among their preferences.

And 60 per cent of principals claimed they had not received value for money from the Building the Education Revolution scheme.

A survey of 300 members by the Public School Principals Forum has found 36 per cent of respondents claimed their preferences for building types were "largely ignored" by the NSW Education Department. A further 22 per cent of respondents claimed the building they had been delivered was not the school's first priority, but was within its top four preferences."
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 12 August 2010 6:13:09 AM
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No side of government knows what they are doing anymore, just look at this election campaign. Both sides are throwing out sweeteners to marginal seats, focusing on money money money, and forgetting that the function of a good government is to provide the structure for the country to grow and then to get out of its way! Tony Abbot, Julia Gillard - in the words of SM's son "Epic Fail".
Posted by Arthur N, Thursday, 12 August 2010 10:15:26 AM
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Arthur N is right.

It is like watching two divorced parents fighting over who is more popular to their bemused and bewildered children.

It is sometimes not until they are older that they realise the parent who ensured fresh vegetables on the table served their interests far better than the lolly bag wielding parent.

Well you get the picture...

There is no doubt there was waste in the BER program and it could have been better implemented, but how are we to vote for Abbott who wants to drastically cut the public service. How are all his promised going to be fulfilled without people on the ground?

The bureaucracy does not show any signs yet of cutting the SES, there is no doubt that these cuts will take place at the service and delivery end of government.
Posted by pelican, Thursday, 12 August 2010 11:57:20 AM
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Your points are valid enough though lost in your continuing need to proportion blame to a government to fulfill your personal justifications.

The basic objective of the BER has been achieved. The failures of the scheme are not those of the federal government but of the respective state governments and their systems of administration. Some of those problems were due to the process and structure of planning rather than incompetence.

NSW government schools costs were much larger than NSW catholic schools. To keep this in perspective you have to consider the whole project costing and how it is structured. One important point is that the catholic information in the report is based on Sydney Diocese information. It is always cheaper to build in the city than rural and remote areas. This can be seen by the WA situation where catholic schools spent more than WA government schools per project, but the majority of the catholic projects were country based.

Of all the BER projects there has been 233 complaints. That is 2.7% overall and I would have considered this not a big issue. If you read through the complaints just a bit you will notice most of them are trivial and based in ignorance by principles who would serve their schools better by improving educational outcomes and leave building to the department. This is all without touching on building standards and costs. Consider when building a school hall the cost difference between using painted steel sections as apposed to the NSW government standard of hot dipped galvanized steel.

In the end if you need blame send it where it belongs and direct your anger to the State governments that have stuffed up the distribution of the funds. Management fees and project management are two areas that cost much in NSW, but then again when dealing with the largest bureaucracy in the southern hemisphere it’s no surprise. The increased cost to mange these projects may certainly be better than having another batts scheme.
Posted by nairbe, Thursday, 12 August 2010 9:27:11 PM
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If I in one post wanted to highlight why we should return the ALP to power I would let one witness take the stand.
Shadow Minister would be that one.
Read his posts the lot of them.
There you will find the very back bone of Tony Abbott's team.
No substance not much truth little honesty.
But most important of all, you will see a belief that all conservatives need do is throw mud lies and fears to win government.
Much concerns me about Labor, my party Greens frighten me more.
But honestly if we put Abbott in power we will live to suffer and Australia will know great mistake has been made.
Shadow in truth you must know about on the run comments non core promises, statements like the GST is dead children over board lies on top of lies, we need better than that mate.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 13 August 2010 7:22:35 AM
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A little rich coming from Belly.

I generally provide links to the sources from which I quote, and I try never to quote without evidential back up. Belly very seldom provides anything other than his own opinion and hopes framed as predictions.

My fears of Labor is that they will do as they have done in the last 3yrs.

Your hopes is that they won't stuff up as badly.

My hopes are for a competent government, which are unlikely in the event of a Labor re election.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 13 August 2010 7:57:04 AM
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Nairbe,

2.7% of recipients of a free hand out thought so little of it that they complained.

As I quoted above, most of principles surveyed didn't get what the school most needed, and 60% thought that money had been squandered.

As most of the money was spent after the GFC, perhaps you would enlighten me as to actually which of the objectives were met?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 13 August 2010 1:42:21 PM
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A challenge shadow.
read my last ten posts see the NSW ALP one.
read yours ten make it 100 for both of us.
you do your self a disservice in saying that about me, see clearly most know it just is not true, you use links then twist the subject.
now even you know your blind insulting slurs are a fabrication more often than not never not ever have you launched into your side I do so often.
Bit rich? shadow HONESTY has far more value than spin.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 13 August 2010 5:38:53 PM
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