Mark Latham a man who smashed the ALP and press cameras has been employed to?
Well what was his job?
Was it to make headlines or hopefully to damage the ALP.
Mark at best was one of Labors biggest mistakes, maybe once he was a true believer, in him self, but he never made it past the front door as a leader.
Driven by bitterness he seems intent on revenge.
What was nine thinking?
Is our media out of control Latham and a few left overs from his train wreck/sabotage of the ALP should fade away.
Fitzgibbons and Crean for starters.

Channel nine are getting flogged by channel seven and are desperate. Anything for a headline.

Many a true word spoken in spite.

To be fair they should also employ Fraser.

Dear Belly,

News programs tend to feature the visually
exciting or emotionally moving stories,
as well as controversial ones that draw
large viewing audiences - even if this means
ommitting issues that are more sober but
perhaps significant also. Latham, without
doubt is controversial, and as Channel nine
competes with Channel 7 in a big way,
Latham is Nine's guaranteed "draw card,"
during this election "newsfest."

Perhaps Channel 7 should bring in Malcolm
Fraser to report on Tony Abbott?

Regardless the whole thing is a disgrace, a new low in Australian TV election coverage.

And whilst that might be a explanation for the behaviour of Channel 9 benk.
I don't know if it's an excuse.

More concerning would be, if there were some "method in this madness"
on the part of Channel 9 ?.

If so, could this be interpreted, as an attempt to influence
the outcome of an election ?. I worry about the motives here.

Anybody else uncomfortable with this?.

Do you really think labors ability to pick leaders has improved?

It appears they have got worse, not better since then.

They should be very pleased with the punters, who refused to be silly enough to elect Latham. It saved them the hassle of dumping hid during his first term. Pity they didn't do the same for them with Rudd.

I wonder if they will be so kind with little Julie. It will be a greater pity if they elect her, & show that in leader selection, labor is getting worse.

Dear Hasbeen,

Do you really think that the Libs are
any better at picking leaders?

By the way - Andrew Peacock's back in
town - wonder why?

Hasbeen,
Worse than Latham, not a chance. One could really be a disaster and be better than Latham just look at Whitlam he got elected.

The media have been on a down hill spiral for many years, this is just a new low in the fight for ratings over truth. One of the benefits of a market system that demands profits over all else. These are the same people who's credibility is only as low as those they report on, they would complain bitterly if strict laws about content honesty and truth were introduced to stop their behaviour. Freedom is never free, it costs and one of the biggest costs is responsibility over cheap gutter journalism and greedy profit.

Worse than Latham?

Im willing to lay odds a certain mad monk would give him a run for his money if he were true to his deeply held beliefs and not the flip flopping, windvane he pretends to be at the moment.

Forget the real Julia but dont forget the real Tony.

Either he is a lying, dishonest fundy christian or he is a power hungry mongrel with no beliefs except win at all costs.

Hasbeen are you related to Latham?
Foxy it is much deeper than that.
Now Sky is involved,well in truth it has been developing Liberal spin in its print media for a while.
Shameful and deceptive if we change government now because of media spin and ignorance of the outcomes to our unity as a country we will look back in pain.
We, all of us, stand on the edge of a very great change in the way we get our news.
Is it to be honest reporting?
Or will it continue to be manufactured and twisted in the way the worst tabloid press has always done it?
Watch on the dawn of the election, see some media having dealt with truth poorly then put last minute support behind Gillard.
Even the best of our media is more like a comic book than any thing else in the fight for readers .

Mark Latham on his way to what he and even me thought was the top had his own web page.
He had the great man who once lead us as his mentor and he seemed to be the new fresh face Labor had searched for.
I read his page his speeches and thought the change had come.
I followed for only a short time his bus trip after Simon Crean and Joel Fitzgibbons along with one more put him in the seat too early after the party was betrayed by some who should have stood firmly behind Kim. [ too early? no time would have been right]
Soon we all found out a simple truth Latham was, is, and always will be, smoke and mirrors, a fraud.
He may be unwell, he certainly is not the man he once looked to be.
Even his closest mentors suffered his bile.
Media had the bad side of him even smashed cameras, why did they use this man?
Both sides of politics must do better I question my party's recent past but fear.
Yes fear the media not unmasking Tony Abbott.
A media that used this grubby failure but will not talk of Australia as it would be two years into an Abbott government.

Foxy, in a word, NO!

Using Latham is simply a journalistic stunt - no more no less. This must be the biggest circus of an election.

However, I liked Latham - he actually stood for something. If you read his book From The Suburbs it is clear he had some good ideas for poorer suburbs and was quite innovative and forward thinking. He was one of the first Labor leaders (other than Hawke/Franklin Dam) to side with conservation over forestry interests in some instances.

His downfall was his temper and his ego and later his anger and desire for revenge which to his detriment only goes to diminish and make a mockery of his very real experiences within the ALP.

Well I thought it was great!

Latham was always a boofhead, taken in by the Clinton-Blair 'thirdway' nonsense and spruiking his wares through some fairly light-on book 'Civilising Global Capitalism', and various articles, even in Quadrant as I recall.

That people are upset with 9 makes me really laugh.

When has any commercial TV station bothered to dish up serious journalism in the news or current affairs areas?

Laurie Oakes is lauded as a 'great man' of TV, and maybe he is? To be honest, because he works for 9 (I think) I never bother to watch him, knowing that his reporting will be of the 'cupcake' variety.

Mel and Koshie provide the same, with all her 'Wow's' and his grovelling adoration of all things Pentacostal they make a perfect commercial TV team.

And so it is with Latham. What was he expected to do? Appear as a 'serious journalist' like Hawke did when he was dumped?

No, Latham's role is to be a boofhead. He did it for the ALP, and they loved him for it.

And, hang on!

Wasn't Gillard his best mate, defender and promoter, King maker even?

Like Mel and Koshie, Latham and Gillard deserve each other.

Game on.... let's move forward with a bit more, I say.

Houlle “Many a true word spoken in spite.

To be fair they should also employ Fraser.”

Ah yes,, the embarrassing face of past leaders....

(I am always surprised we do not hear more from Gough, I am sure someone must be heavily sedating him in the foray before general elections)

However as things go, you will find Latham will stand as an eternal reminder, a beacon, no less, to the extremes labor will go for power and the risks that sort of desperation implies

Fraser, on the other hand, is just too old and too irrelevant to matter

Belly "he (Latham) certainly is not the man he once looked to be."

and nor was Kevin

of course, Julia still has currency, until 21st at least....

but that is always the problem with labor

they are never the people they "look to be"...

they look like one thing and end up just a bunch of power crazed narcissists (Latham was at least honest, he displayed his "thuggery" on the hustings, rather than hide it until in power - like Rudd)

Australian Elections always come down to


Liberal "Leadership" versus Labor "Rule"

Hasbeen,

the topic was "why use Latham?" not 'what do you think (sic) of Labor's leaders'.
Is there any one on OLO who doesn't know
a. How you are going to vote in any election?
b. That regardless of who is head of the Labor party to you they are a sub species?
c. That when the media kick Labor you believe them implicitly but when they disagree with you they are pro socialism.

In truth the media are all about sensation/ conflict because it sells papers to surface (superficial) feeders and like fish their reactions are influenced (panicked) in mass by large splashes and predators.
Latham, was employed to be controversial*make* copy.

Personally I think it will back fire because he's a bully by nature and it's only a matter of time before he goes over the top...he is expendable but it is calculated by 9 he'll get attention.

Stern... '"Liberal "Leadership" versus Labor "Rule"'... or is it Liberal born-to-rule leadership vs. ALP 'not quite sure what it's there for'?

I think we agree Stern, that there is something very amiss with the contemporary ALP, quite what that is might not be so easy to agree on though.

But really.... Menzies was just as keen to 'rule' as Gillard is today.

You seem to imply a certain Liberal finesse in these things, denied to the ALP but quite where that might be spotted I am not sure.

The Menzian noblesse-oblige, the clear headed 'Thinker' channelled via Tony Abbott vs. the harsh toned shop steward (with a full-on Baptist life experience stashed away under the lunch Vegemite sarnies in the Gladstone bag, packed adoringly by 'Mother Tim'... with a banana).

It just doesn't wash here I'm afraid.

There is a shortage of 'leadership' all round, I'd say, along with a surplus of 'rules' desires all round too.

I don't know about other posters here, but I cannot see much to brag about anywhere from either side of the near-identical political camps, and I certainly see no hint of leadership whatsoever, from anyone

<< …I cannot see much to brag about anywhere from either side of the near-identical political camps, and I certainly see no hint of leadership whatsoever, from anyone. >>

Blue Cross, likewise!

So, we should all….. vote for NO ONE!!

Neither of the near-identical Liblabs deserve the vote of any person with a considered opinion….and of course they don’t deserve the vote of anyone who is apathetic!!

Don’t vote for the slightly lesser of two fundamentally flawed evils!

Don’t vote for any other candidate, except perhaps in seats where they have a realistic chance of winning or of being one of the top two contestants. Otherwise your preferences will very likely filter down and count for one of the two big bad bogie-man parties, even if you are specifically voting against both of them!!

A blank ballot paper, with notes scribbled on it to the effect of – ‘compulsory preferential voting is an antidemocratic RORT’ and ‘reduce immigration to net zero’, ‘a sustainable Australia is URGENT’ or ‘end oil dependence ASAP!’ would be good!

NONE of these things are being discussed, or realisitically discussed at least, in this election lead-up.

Now, if Mark Latham was serious in stirring the pot, these are some of the things that he should be evoking! (:>)

Yes, yes Ludwig, I know all that.

But I have to vote Green to displace Jan McLucas and whoever the other ALP goon is with a Green and whatever...too much to hope for a Sex Party 'member'.

And in the lower house, although I live in a horrible LIberal seat and the ALP goon has no chance of winning, I need to vote Green, and formally, in order that the Greens can pick up their $1.20, or whatever it is, for formal votes won, to help pay their Senate election costs.

So, I will, sadly and pathetically, be filtering my vote to the ALP, but only to benefit the Greens, and at least attempt to influence the final Senate outcome.

Sad... but true, and needed.

I do not feel happy about it at all.

Ludwig, TBC

The PROBLEM with many of the views on OLO and the way the election is being viewed is that parties should be different and that the choices should be black or white. This view flies in the face of logic and reality. We votes on election day for our local member....as OUR representative. We don't *directly* vote to change policy at that time.

Think of it like this;
The election campaign is similar to selling two cans of beans visceral competition between two self interested entities staffed by self interested individuals.

If we wanted artichokes we should have been involved earlier. Then we would have gotten a choice of artichokes.

if we wanted a choice between artichokes or beans then we need to change the system . What we're experiencing the Examinator's Election Effect (EEE)(ok! the middle ground effect) an extreme variant form of the Prado effect....80% of the people vote for 20% of the available policies. Parties would argue why focus on the the other 80% (minority interest) policies? To do so would potentially alienate the middle voters. i.e. Gay marriages .

The only way to avoid this is to change the system, break up, dilute power groupings (vis a vie church influence in politics in this example). Sadly without change no party is going to take on entrenched power groups unions, corps all flavours etc

The Blue Cross, no contest, Julia is the other person I refers to in my other post.
I still condemn everyone who betrayed my party and Kim.
BUT Julia will govern very much better than Abbott, workchoices have no doubt,, will come back under him.
I want one day to understand why Rudd went, but waiting in the wings is a real man of promise Bill Shorten is what Latham and Rudd promised us, no failure if he gets clean air.
Latham, the one who wrote that book no longer exists, a poison spiteful hurt and wanting to hurt person lives in his skin.
Find me just one ALP figure in the history of my party less liked.

This will make you laugh Belly.I wrote this just before Mark was deposed as leader of the Labor Party.The member for Werriwa was hiding in Terrigal at this time.You will also remember at the time we had the tsunami in Indonesia and Mark had a pancreas problem.

Conversation between Julia Gillard and Mark Latham.

Julia; Werriwere you mark?

Mark; In terror gal.

Julia; You'll have to give up the grog Mark,your pancreas is getting livered.

Mark; Pancreas my arze.I tried to crush the hand of that rodent and he rewards my bravo with and electoral flogging.

Julia; Why didn't you say something about Acehi?

Mark; Didn't John abandon Acehi?

Julia;It's Banda Acehi,the Capital.

Mark; Banda Acehi Aid.Is Bob going too?

Julia; Bob Geldorf?

Mark; No Bob Carr.He's my only threat.Get Bob to fix their infrastructure and I'll be in like Flynn.

Julia; We have to ride the great wave of public generosity.

Mark; Soon army will come and wipe out all those who voted Liberal.

Julia; But it's already been.Sri Lanka,Acehi, Thailand,India!

Mark; No, the army.

Julia; The salvos are already there.

Mark; No, my army of Howard haters.We will rise up and smite them down as predicted by Gough the profit.

Well Mark didn't rise up and smite them down.He joined the very harlots whom he hated, ie 60 minutes and is fast becoming something he once despised.People will do strange things in their lust for power and John Howard,Julia Gillard,Tony Abbott are no exceptions.They have all sold us out to large corporate interests.

arjay that was funny.
But you make me laugh in every one of your posts.
I am very much aware of the hiding under the bed at that time.
And the bloke blew away in the wind after his dream of a life crafted to lead proved wrong.
Remember after setting up my booth that election day I shook hands at 8am with the national booth captain said congrats your landslide and came home to cry.
Latham is a symptom of media that has made up its mind lets hope Australia has not.

Belly, the fact that you set up a booth to try to elect Latham, as our PM is what is wrong with your party.

Do you now dislike Latham for what he is, or for the fact that he lost?

Were you still promoting Latham before that election, in the same way that you were so recently promoting, [& believing in] Rudd, & are now promoting Julie?

Were you ever ashamed he was your leader, while he was, or did you only become ashamed of him, after he lost?

I am horrified that many people on here have stated they will still vote labor in this election, even though they expect them to be a lousy government. This tribalism shows such an immature society it is rather frightening.

Hasbeen... "I am horrified that many people on here have stated they will still vote labor in this election,".

But this is our system Hasbeen.

Of course, people could vote Liberal, or National, or any of the other far right political groupings, but they wouldn't do that just because they don't like Gillard or Rudd or an ALP policy would they?

If they vote Green, as I intend to, then the vote still has to be parked somewhere, doesn't it?

Ludwig is advocating a wasted vote.... well, that is just a wasted vote in the end.

My vote, even when used, is a wasted vote too, as far as I am concerned, since the Green candidate will get up to about 9%, the ALP about 30$ and the Liberals will romp home here as they always do.

In the end, I am only voting formally in the lower house to send the Greens some funding from my vote, assuming the candidate will get more than the required... is it 4%?

Swingers of course, are different.

They swing because they have no idea what they are doing...

Hasbeen walk with me mate.
As you know we do not like one another.
But being Aussies we do not wish harm to one another ok so far?
Now you infer I do great harm to my country for? voting Labor!
Outstanding, lets see so you on balance think only a conservative government will do.
And harass me for believing that would greatly harm my country.
I submit my party has much to make up, not for the big spend but for not having that DD election 5 ,months ago.
For the murdering of the ETS.
For the mining tax thing not the new one it is ok the idiotic idea Rudd had he was God could do as he wished.
I find Julia interesting but am unsure if she will be what I want.
I see no insightful looks from you into your side, it just never happens.
But has been I have zero self doubt your side if elected will damage the very fabric of my country.
Hidden under the nice guy blanket you are trying to put over voters heads is the real Abbott.
The man who tells us he lies some times who has gone through life with one foot in his mouth.
Hasbeen how can you? come tell me how, be so sure it is me who betrays AUSTRALIA and not you?
I grew up around rich country people who called England home and children Angus and Brangus, who thought people like me should hold hat over heart before addressing them, education is wasted on such.
Who ever is elected it will be the wish of voters you and I must continue to inhabit different worlds this makes me happy.
TBC wast your vote but once you would not have.

Belly, when will you get it? I am not a liberal voter. My upbringing was probably similar to yours. My father was as one eyed labor as you, if not more so. I have nothing against you personally, or labor.

I was lucky, had good teachers, was an honors graduate, & had a choice of scholarships, but otherwise was no different.

I have felt as disgusted with the conservatives in the past, as I now do with labor. Perhaps I am more disgusted with labor as it would be my natural choice.

I did not consider voting conservative, & I would never have considered helping them in most of the years after Menzies, when they were totally lost.

I felt sorry for Whitlam, when he took over an Australia which I knew was in a much worse state than most realised. I figured he had no chance of doing a good job. That he lost his way was probably caused by desperation after what he found.

Richardson lost me, & the continued use of his tactics has kept me lost. Until they trust voters enough to tell us something like it really is, I'll probably stay lost.

I am as poor as you. I chose to spend my life playing games, & deserve nothing else. However I would like to have a government that gives my kids, who are more serious than me, a chance to build the security they desire. Your lot do not offer that chance with their present policies, dictated by their vote buying.

Belly I reckon we want the same thing, but believe the opposite as to who will give it to us.

Sorry mate

you will see why Latham got a run if you look.
This mornings Sydney Tele is running its usual poll.
Like it stable mate Australia's national newspaper the poll seems unlikely to shed light on the publics view.
Today the question is who won last nights public debate or what ever it was.
Inviting you get the chance to say yes or no?
Not who won.
Now almost every poll has such problems, but these two papers actually stopped me voting Labor on some e issues?
74% we are told thought Abbott won another question? no an answer power is at work here.

But being Aussies we do not wish harm to one another ok so far?
Now you infer I do great harm to my country for? voting Labor!
Belly,
Precisely !

Indy please for give if I offend,it is my view nothing you post is worth considering.
Now if I thought as you do this great country would not be as great on Saturday one week and a day away I will stand giving out my party's form with your side there too.
No war of words, oh yes such as you will confront me and your team too, but no guns no hate just pity for blind such as you.
being a red neck Indy is not an honor being closed to all but your own thoughts is not.
right now it is unsure who will win, if I am on the wrong side I will have much humble pie to eat here but unlike you I will except voters wants and not be so bitter and ? well best not say but you should have more respect ,,,for your self putting that in print is extremely childlike.
Only Latham has made as big a dill out of himself this week.

Belly,
I am only responding to you to gauge the mentality of the likes of you.
So, a redneck eh ? I always thought a redneck was someone who disregarded others. It's a real eye-opener to learn that caring about the goings-on in our society is actually redneck stuff. One could be forgiven to think that you're one of those lucky people who have gone through life without much input yet enjoying a comfortable life. You have obviously never been subjected to the hate, the conniving & cowardice of ALP crony Public Service managers towards people who care. I hope you're proud of them.

Indy thanks, for adding evidence to my claims about you.
truth is if most of us though as you do, my way or no way we would not have the great country we have.
I vote ALWAYS for what I see as the party that best meets my needs.
No party can fill them all.
Indy here and now I say no way I will work for or vote for the NSW ALP.
we deserve better and only total destruction can level level ground to re build on.
I doubt you could ever think enough of your side to say that.

that best meets my needs.
Belly,
therein lies the difference. I favour the party that best suits us all. The Coalition has proven to be better in that than Labor. I know that Labor is good for Public Servants & academics but what about the rest of us.

Right on Indy,

Anything Labor can the Libs can do better. Take Julie Bishop (please)

Julie Bishop, deputy opposition leader, is childless.

Divorced from property developer Neil Gillion after 5 years marriage.

Currently unmarried and living with her current partner Peter Nattrass, Lord Mayor of Perth.

And she wants us all to work until we die

" We've got to get away from the paradigm of working years being between 17 and 65. There will be no upper limit."

Slavechoices all over again.

And yet the media conveniently ignores this truth about the other Jules.

Johnny Rotten,
Thanks for enlightening us on this. I for one didn't know that. As true as this may be please don't divert attention from the important & more relevant facts. Are you inferring that these two sheilahs are on par ? Well, that'll certainly make our choice easier to vote for a bloke with his head screwed on rather than two sheilahs who shy away from one of the most basic responsibilities i.e. a marriage & children :-)

He heh, Indy

I imagine the reason a bloke has his head screwed on and able to govern is because of the sheila he has at home taking care of the kiddies.

I just wanted to make the point that there's not much between Labor and the Libs. Besides, there have been other PM's unmarried and childless such as Ben Chifley, James Scullin, Andrew Fisher and Stanley Bruce. No one has made an issue about them "shying away from their responsibilities" only when it is women does all this crap become an issue.

I want someone who's mind is focused on the job - in this case that of leading our country, apart from the fact that the mad monk is as mad as he ever was (his faceless men have held him in check) Julie Bishop is PM in waiting, seems to me to be hypocritical to condemn Gillard for being the same as many other pollies, unmarried no kids.

So my vote will be going to another pollie who's unmarried, no kids, called Bob Brown. Unlike you I am concerned about this country and not big business. Speaking of BB, did ya see John Elliot on Q & A - not exactly a fine upstanding example of corporate Australia is he? I understand he is married with kids, just goes to show that makes no improvement to anyone.

Unlike you I'm concerned about this country..
Johnny Rotten,
you obviously haven't read any of my posts. As for John Elliott I can only agree, he didn't cut a good figure at all. Bob Brown can afford to sound idealistically logical because he's never had to prove himself in the past. I do agree that neither major party cuts it at this stage but Labor ? Gimme a break ! By the way, have the Greens brought out any economic models yet ?

Bob Brown? ok if you must but he is not green just about as radical as you will find in this country.
And his complaining about preferences may cost him more than you think this time.
Indy you make me laugh do you understand Labor is about to be re elected? by over half the country's two party preferred voters?
And you actually say, you did, we do not care as much for this country as you do!
Ever had a head ache?

we do not care as much for this country as you do!
Belly,
You said it & you didn't even use a question mark ! If Labor does get back than all I can say it'll be a sad indictment indeed. My conscience is clear, is yours ?

Each of us is going to make our choices
come Election Day at the Ballot Box -
according to who we think can govern this
country best and do the best for us and
our families. We don't have to agree on
each others choices - that's one of great things
about the freedoms we share in this country.
At best, we can only
hope that we've got it right, and if we haven't,
we can try again in three years time.

I also watched - "Q and A," last Monday evening,
and I was impressed with the way in which
the PM answered the tough questions fairly
and squarely. As for Elliott, he's a funny guy,
used to be quite impressive, but I think he
should retire from speaking on public forums.
I am looking forward to seeing
Tony Abbott respond this coming Monday.
"Q and A," at least made things a bit more
interesting this week, to what is currently being
presented in the media. I also watched Dick Smith
and others talk on population and sustainability
on "Q and A" mid week. It too was an interesting
program.

Anyway, with the election on the horizon,
things should heat up in the next few weeks.

Foxy you as usual are being nice, and in your post is a truth Indy and his like can not see.
One week after the election we will not be killing one another.
Some will be unhappy some even angry but most can live with the result.
I again and again see inference that I Do not care for my country, maybe do not understand, or am blind.
And in truth it is those who resort to such childlike statements who cannot see clearly.
This has been a close election, it is not over it will be tight.
But be assured, remember just before Rudd won? giggles came as I said do not be concerned we will win.
Well once more be watchful but know Australia will NEVER put Tony Abbott in power.
This given the recent developments should be a Conservative victory.
But spite spin lies hidden agendas aren't policy's.
Indy and such play with words and convince only voters already on their side.
In truth the true swinging voter is far more likely to be turned away by such.
Indy you must try to stop devaluing other peoples thoughts while over valuing your own.
And know mate I believe with my heart your mob must return to Liberalism before being trusted to run our country.

Belly,
I'd almost feel sorry for you if it weren't for the conniving gist in your remarks. I only hope for this country that the average citizen doesn't share your stuff you Jack I'm alright attitude.

individual,
You an average citizen? I'm not sure if you are underrating you uniqueness or painting a bleak picture of the average person's ability to reason. Either way your reasoning of late is a worry.

Dear Belly,

I wasn't purposely trying to be nice - but
Thanks anyway, for your kind words.

What actually prompted my earlier post
was an old issue of "Time" magazine
that I came across amongst some books.
It was a "Golden Anniversary Issue,"
covering 50 years of Australian
history from 1959 to 2009. In this issue
they looked
back at the politicians, pop idols,
activists, and athletes who shaped the
country over the past decades. Reading
the article made me realize what an
incredible era it was.

Little things were driven home, things
like the beach, for example, which is
so much a part of our national psyche.
It's a wonderful leveler. Australian
beaches are open to all comers,
rich, poor, locals, blow-ins.
Beaches are the place where we came
closest to the egalitarian ideal.

A snapshot of bathers at Bondi circa 1959
would show a society both modest and
homogeneous. Visit Australia's most famous
beach today and you will see a complex nation,
and a more confident one. It's a place that's
changing fast but one in which the simple
things - a swim, a picnic, a run along the wet
sand are still celebrated and held dear.
That was true yesterday, it's just as true
today; it will be true again tomorrow.

I'd like to see us concentrate on what unites us
and not on what divides us. And I'd like to see
our leaders showing us the way in this direction.
I guess I'm just tired of all the negativity.

You an average citizen?
Examinator,
I hope not. Anyhow, when did I ever claim to be one,in which post ? If I were I wouldn't be worrying so much about the country's future. Because I am an advocate for decency & stamping out corruption & incompetence I have become a target by the local ALP supporters. You'd be ashamed to call yourself an ALP supporter if you only knew how disgustingly vindictive these people become. Ardent supporters of the ALP like Belly who couldn't care less how others are treated as long as they can continue in their cosy little taxpayer funded world. Deep down I fully support the original Labor doctrine but todays ALP ? You can't be serious ! ALp is merely a taxpayer funded self interest society & that's why I hope the populace still has sufficient integrity to see that.

I am a bit unsettled this morning.
The real life Belly is the one you see here.
Never any different this is me.
My thoughts are the same no matter who I talk to.
I embrace and recommend to you all the editorial in this mornings Sydney daily Tele, goggle it read it see it is balanced.
It does not hold back I would not ask it to.
My party gets a firm honest kicking, not much less than what I Would hand out, will after the election.
Yet that paper from the stable we know as conservative says Labor should be re elected.
Goggle Sydney's herald todays too.
See the story about attack adds how voters are turned off by them, yes my teams too.
Now read posts from known ALP voters here in OLO
MINE are blind unpatriotic loyalty?
Know it may well be the man who sweeps the factory floor that has the idea that saves the firm.
That ranting and raving, hating your opponent is not debate.
If Indy Shadow minister and a few others are balanced, if my views betray my country our future is bleak, the peaceful way we vote and live with one another is under threat.
I said I am as I am no way not ever will I stop saying it like it is.
And never will I stop confronting those who throw such silly insults.
I do not want them not to post I do not want to leave but if my right to return serve is challenged I will stop posting.
We each of us, is biased but some have no idea it may be the fella with the broom who knows more than us.

Indy

Wot's this "care about your country" B/S you keep spouting?

Far as I can see from the likes of Belly, Examinator, Foxy and others they care very much. As for me, I never said whether I care about this country or not - keep your words out of my mouth.

I care very about this country - I chose to come and live here, wasn't an accident of birth.

Vote for your bleedin' Libs, mate, I don't give a toss. Not here to convert you, I'm here cos I'm back in my home town after being away for a few years and this is a public forum, mate, where people get to express what they think.

I think voting in Abbott is like back to the future - no plans for sustainability, no understanding of computer technology, zip if you are fleeing a war zone and Labor only marginally better, we need to keep those bastards honest, the Democrats were bought off, no one left except for the Greens.

Now, none of us here would be bothered ranting on about all this if we didn't give a rat's for our country. Either put together a logical argument or p1ss off.

Johnny Rotten,
I'm repeating myself again but "those with no retort resort to ridicule". You must feel so desperate to resort to abuse as well.

Dear Individual,

We all at some time of other get personal
insults thrown at us. I've had my share
many times. Even when I tried to point
out that personal attacks smack of intellectual
bankruptcy and have no place in discussion
forums, attack the message not the messenger,
I was occused of being the Forum "police,"
for several threads. As JR said - this is
the norm for discussion forums. It's to be
expected. Of course it's upsetting, but you've
got to admit, we've all reacted when the right
buttons are pushed, especially with highly
emotive topics like religion, and politics.

As for this coming election - well, it's only
a week to go, and we'll see what Australia decides.
As Peter Costello said, "The voters usually get it
right in the end!" And, as I wrote, if they don't,
they can try again in three years time.

Foxy,
Believe me it pains me greatly to have to resort to the level of harshness I often feel myself forced to go to. Unfortunately, by pointing out unpleasant facts some people react adversely as it is not what they want to hear. I'm no different, I too get worked up but I get even more worked up when people point blank either refuse to accept my point of view which is mainly based on personal experience. By all means if anyone believes I am wrong then so be it but I draw the line when my experiences are dismissed outright. How can I possibly make positive statements when the experience is on the contrary ? Is it really ALL my fault that my experiences with ALP supporters are not good ? I don't enjoy making negative statement after negative statement. I am for fairness & a better society but all I cop is thoughtless arguments for the sake of argument not for the sake of making things better.
cheers

Indy I read that post, then re read it, it baffles me.
Can you base your thoughts that I am unpatriotic on your personal problems with some from within my party?
I get angry try not to but do, I feel sorry every time I do.
Your experiences? what about mine? do they matter?
See I know this only the ALP shares enough of my views to make me vote for them.
Not all not even most but much more than conservatives ever have or will.
I want nuclear power think the ALP will change its mind.
I want BOTH SIDES to support bills in the senate so 2 useless beggars can not have more say.
I believe only the ALP is the party of change and that it is the one looking at this country's future.

Dear Individual,

Thanks for being so open and honest.
We all get frustrated when people
are rude and or dismissive. We all tend
to react when the right buttons are pushed.
It takes a large amount of self-discipline
and control not to react. I admire posters
that no matter what, they don't seem to
get provoked. Most of us just tend to do the
best we can, given the circumstances.
And I guess it's only natural to want our
opinions validated instead of dismissed.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions.
And after reading your explanation, I shall
try to be more aware of the feelings of
others (not only my own) in the future.

Belly ,
In my area 90 % of Public servants support Labor . Where these same public servants shaft anyone who dares to ask them to do their job & neither the ombudsman, nor CMC, nor public service commission, nor the local ALP member stands up to corruption, mismanagement & misappropriation. The list is too long for here. I now ask you Belly, do you expect me to ignore the wrongdoings just so these facts remain hidden from the wider community which actually forks out the funding for this misuse ? I'm sure you wouldn't keep quiet either. I'd mouth off just the same if conservative elements acted the same way. As a matter of fact I actually did report some incompetence during the Borbidge years & not even the ALP local member said anything. Why didn't he say anything ? Because most of the public servants would have ousted him for rocking the boat. That Belly is why I am so crook about the ALP & it's lack of integrity. Maybe in your area they're better but definitely not in FNQ.

Now Indy I gained much from your post.
Why it took me so long I do not know.
I saw the extremism in your posts but never till now understood you have other issues.
Guess your problems with public servants have been around for a while.
And you most probably understand both sides of politics employ them, the same ones.
Maybe if your concerns are old enough the other side managed when some of your issues came in to being.
I Will not rise to your baits again it is to me at least you do not have an extensive understanding of politics and may well be unable to see how truly simplistic your views are.
Get well mate.

If anyone's interested I believe that
Mark Latham will be interviewed on
"60 Minutes," at 7.30 tonight.

It might be worth watching to see what
he's got to say.

Foxy,
I just watched 60 minutes,green's suddenly looking like a pleasant colour. p.s. Labor was portrayed very accurately, the coalition's closet held some interesting skeletons.

Belly,
Simplistic ? Yes !. As simple as the incompetence & corruption you chose to tolerate. What is the complexity about incompetence & selfishness that I am too simplistic to understand?
are those poor people who lose their jobs & homes simplistic ? Are those who get overrun by an 18wheeler of insipid regulation simplistic ? Oh I see what you mean, if it doesn't affect you personally then it is of no concern due its simplicity. Like the Union rep who told us to f... off back to where we came from because due to union incompetence we didn't get paid enough to afford union fees. Ah, wouldn't it be nice to get those generous public service benefits for which others are paying. Ah and that dreadful work choices thing I was paid fairly by until the QLD Labor govt decided to amalgamate us. But what would I know. Enjoy the upcoming weekend.

Indy

Before you mouth off again, maybe check a person's posting history. You don't have to agree with him to know Belly is one of the better people online here.

And NOW, you're thinking Green AFTER mouthing off at me?

Chip on your shoulder, old son, trying talking WITH people instead of AT them.

Foxy, m'dear

Labor were very lucky (not to mention Australia) to divest themselves of Latham - he makes Abbott look sane and reasonable.

Indy mine is black coffee two sugar replacement.
Now I understand you are locked in to a issue that has blinded you let me thank you.
See I will enjoy this weekend,you will not.
You bring out into the light a truth no one can say is not fact.
Some blindly believe they are always right the world aways wrong.
Every day I learn,my basic wish to find good in every one often makes me slow to pick up on some, your opinions are yours grasp them but understand next weekend is mine.
get well mate.
Latham, this foolish person highlights not his own ruined life.
Not the lost dreams he had ,a life of planning to be a leader.
The highlight has to be what is Australian media doing?
Printed media is not selling enough, radio/TV are fighting for ratings.
Manufacturing news not reporting ,a fight to see what the future of news will be but can any one doubt using this failure is weird?
Latham says vote no one?
Why Use Latham, why use us?

Johnny Rotten,
'ere you go again. Who said now I'm thinking green ? I merely stated that the 60 minutes program showed them in a light that made them look better. You're one of those who only need the slightest inkling of something that makes you feel right & presto a mere remark of observation makes it a full-blown steadfast statement. A bit like that idiotic "now she thinks she is the mother of all Australians" because Pauline Hanson said she feels about Australia like a mother feels about her children.
Belly, why use us (you & JR) ? Because you can be used so easily, that's why !

Belly I know it's too far back & inconvenient to remember the WA Labor govt which gambled & lost the Superannuation of so many pensioners. I bet these people who have to struggle on must be feeling very simplistic. I have said many times & I stand by this that you have to be cruel to be kind but Labor managed to put a new meaning to that.

I watched Mark Latham on 60 minutes last night
and if you didn't know his background you'd
think what he presented was quite reasonable.
He seemed to be trying to appear even-handed.
However, knowing who he is and what he's done
in the past, I couldn't help wonder why he's
doing what he's doing now?

Surely the gracious thing would be once you've
decided to leave politics, to simply stay out
of it, instead of trying to paint the Party
you've supported all those years in such a
negative light, especially just prior to an
election. It does smack of vindictiveness.
Especially when he closed with telling people
they didn't have to vote, that he wasn't going
to vote, that his was going to be a "protest"
vote and that others could follow suit.
A case of sour grapes - it would seem.

I agree Foxy. Latham still looks and behaves like an angry man. I can understand his anger particularly with Rudd but he had so much to offer, but ego got in the way of principles.

Foxy, Pelican, I don’t think that Latham’s past is important. What is important is the message that he is now communicating.

<< Especially when he closed with telling people
they didn't have to vote, that he wasn't going
to vote, that his was going to be a "protest"
vote and that others could follow suit. >>

He’s got a very good point. At last someone else is saying what lone-voiced Ludwig has been prattling on about for yonks – don’t vote for either of the two big buggers if you feel that neither of them deserves your vote. Don’t vote on the basis of the slightly lesser of two evils!

Latham is not stepping out of line with this sort of message. All those who are upholding the message that you’ve got to vote for either Lib or Lab, or at least put them in your preferences where one of them will end up getting your vote, and that a null vote is wasted vote, are the ones speaking out of line.

We have the perfect democratic right to vote for no candidate. If it is deliberate, then it is NOT a wasted vote! It is only a wasted vote if it is an accidental nullification of your ballot paper.

I think that Mark Latham should be congratulated for stepping up and being heard and saying things that need to be said that no one else with the media’s attention has dared to say.

Dear Ludwig,

I understand what you're saying, but as my
father used to tell me:

"Even a bird doesn't poop in its own nest!"

Although he also said,

"You can't expect as much from a sparrow as
an eagle..."

Latham is obviously not an eagle.

Sorry Ludwig Latham has an issue few truly understand.
I remember followed the bloke he convinced himself he was to be PM even on the very morning he faced that landslide against him, his bitterness is against every one.
He is of no value.
now Indy sorry but my interest in politics is two sides under over and around not one sided bile.
I Will let you play in your sand box with this final message.
You are as often quite wrong as you are right.
And I will look elsewhere for ideas on how this country can improve I DO understand Labor has much to make up, will be first to complain if they let us down but I and Australia are not going to trust Abbott.

Well, I think that Latham is right on the money.

Here’s the 60 Minutes segment. Well worth seeing for anyone who cares about the quality of the election campaigns and the quality of our next government –

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/7944020/latham-at-large

or a briefer overview –

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/leave-ballot-blank-latham-tells-voters-20100815-1257h.html#poll

Very interesting thing about that poll (hit the second link in my last post and scroll down) –

33% of respondents (nearly 30 000 of them as of 10.00pm on 16/08/10) have agreed that Mark Latham’s call to lodge a blank vote is fair enough.

This is a very big percentage compared to something like 4% of blank or informal votes being lodged at previous elections, most of which have been put down to voter error causing nullification of their ballot papers.

So it would seem that Latham’s message has penetrated the populace. It will hopefully translate into a very sizeable null vote being lodged next Saturday.

PS – you can still vote in this poll for another two days.

Ludwig truly Latham is a fool, many who do not understand him think he is throwing mud at the other side so I agree with him, that is wrong.
Latham throws mud at every side and himself.
No way we should be seeing the fool being paid to be the trouble maker he is.
Any one who votes informal has zero right to complain about politics.
30% will not vote informal ever in this country.
Latham has said it all, the whole life he built around politics and change fell around his ears, he failed so he wants to tell us to be failures too.
Politics in this country ALWAYS brings out the best and the worst but as Costello said voters usualy get it right.
The hardest nearly impossible thing to grasp is NO PARTY can give any of us all we want.
Gillard is now being pushed to reverse her policy on our future population by big self interested business.
Finally polls are at best questionable, after this election headlines will question great difference in polls and actual out come.

NO PARTY can give any of us all we want.
That's correct Belly & so it should be. It's not what we want it's what we can do to work with a party in a combined effort to have a functional society. THE main problem is that so many think it their god-given right to just demand. This mentality is a trait that is fostered by particularly left wing factions who have no concept what responsibility towards others is all about. Labor was established to counter this attitude & now a hundred years later the ALP is crapping on Labor.

Dear Belly,

There seems to be an overwhelming public cynicism pervading this election campaign. I can't recall an election where there seemed so little scope for choice, all delivered in a nauseating package of media hype. Both parties seem to exude the same level of odium. If I were to vote Labor, it would only be for the reason that I like Abbott less.
I have always considered myself a political animal, yet during this campaign I have contrived to avoid almost all the electioneering (quite a feat).
I'll be voting Green in the senate and maybe even in the house of reps (instead of informal).

Poirot, me too yes I agree colorless uninspiring and boring.
But not Tony Abbott not the GFC deniers not the lies and fear conservatives are not ready to rule.
And they would be worse than the ALP.
Sad but true sheer fear of Abbott is the best reason to vote Labor I ever found.
Indy did not bother reading it all just slipped away if the sand box is not enough let me know I will buy you a puppy to keep you happy nice group of Lab pups up the road.
See you here next week we can talk about the new Parliament while waiting for the senate count to finish.

Belly,
“sheer fear of Abbott”
Belly are we talking about Tony Abbott or Joseph Goebbels!

Poirot,
Re “I'll be voting Green in the senate and maybe even in the house of reps (instead of informal).”

Hercule why is it that whenever I see you on ABC primetime, you are such a cluey guy, but when I see you on OLO you seem so clueless –most peculiar indeed!