http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/states-schools-blowout-exposed/story-fn59niix-1225901860057

Victoria confirms the sorry BER tale

But the government's refrain that the Building the Education Revolution is a success was erased yesterday by the release of the price paid by the Victorian government to build a school hall.

Like NSW, Victoria is paying twice as much as the Catholic school system and well above standard industry costs.

Of necessity, The Australian's series of reports documenting concerns about the BER has focused on NSW; until yesterday, it was the only state to have made public its building costs.

The federal government has dismissed reports of inflated costs as being confined to NSW but the story is similar in Victoria and, presumably, around the nation. The onus is now on the other states and territories to reveal the figures.

At which point does Julia Gillard stop pretending to be able to manage the economy.

This incompetent could not manage a Booze in a Brewery.

SM

Damn Conservative Capitalists strike again? Thieving, God bothering hypocrites one and all.
It's all in the way you look at it.
Your reasoning is usury, exploitive leaving all the blame on one party. common sense dictates that no crimes were committed and the intent to defraud was that of the builders (commercial capitalists).
Reasonably one side can't shoulder all the blame.
And of course your lot's record is absolutely unimpeachable...I don't think.
Mind you the RSPCA will be after you ...flogging a dead horse.

Couldn't have said that any better myself Examinator

I doubt very much whether the rorts are at all political.

The departments that implement these policies don't change when their political masters change.

They are exactly the same witheringly incompetent bunch of time-serving wallies, who couldn't clean the teaspoons without having twelve meetings..

In NSW, I heard, they (the department, not the pollie) awarded the head contract to a single firm of architects, who were i) snowed under as a result, and couldn't keep a proper eye on what was going on and ii) made a massive killing with their percentage of the contracts that were let.

I'd be interested if anyone knows the full story and can put me right, or alternatively can corroborate its detail.

It is a source of constant pain, when you calculate how many hours we work to keep them in their sheltered-workshop unsackability, their mountain of tax-free perks, and minuscule working hours.

Public service reform is long, long overdue, as is ministerial accountability.

Examinator,

These articles are from today. The horse is still alive and kicking.

Perhaps you could nominate who else should shoulder the blame for the wasted BER billions?

I never claimed criminal action on behalf of JG only stupendous incompetence.

The only time value for money was achieved, is when the money was given directly to the independent schools to manage.

S,M. you really are repetitive on this as are a few others that have pre determined that no matter what, you will sink the ship. Yes the BER program has proved expensive and in NSW somewhat problematic due to a State government that you only have to live in NSW to know why.
The BER program due to it's scale has shown the real government waste that has always existed. The rates of failure and ripoff are either normal or marginally higher which really should be ringing much bigger alarm bells than the bias one eyed ones you are pushing.
In the end the BER is a success. it has built school infrastructure that was ignored for 12 years because a surplus was more important than school standards, hospitals, law and order, telecommunications and on and on the list goes. The BER was a success because it forced large amounts of cash into the economy within a defined time period saving lot's of jobs. Remember stimulas, everyone voted for it in the house and senate, it was our saviour now we blame everyone else for the debt we were left with. Thats the reality of a greed based system, good on the "ME" generation

The same report said that only about 254 of the 24,000-odd projects drew complaints.

That means it was about 97% successful.

It's a bit rich to take a handful of extreme cases and apply it across the whole scheme, especially when it did what it was supposed to do for the economy.

It's a bit different from wasting many billions on noisy submarines or helicopters that aren't suitable for their intended purpose or dud government IT contracts because at the end of the day, there is a tangible result for the community.

The construction of the Sydney Opera House was also deemed a fiasco in it's day and of sub-standard construction but nobody wants to tear it down now.

Wobbles and Nairba,

If you actually read the article, the complaints were by the principals, who primarily weren't concerned the expenditure. These complaints were that what was built was shoddy, and did not meet their needs.

The other 97% got a very expensive free gift which for public schools cost on average more than twice what they should have, and in some notable cases nearly 5 times what they should have.

The $16.2bn BER could easily have been built for $10bn with the same benefits to schools and the economy. The rest is just poured down the drain, and has to be funded from future taxes

I ask OLO contributors to consider my words.
Shadow Minister in thread after thread gets boots and all into the ALP
he lets rip with the headline rip off, yes contractors ripped us of Labor may have miss managed some of it.
But the cash did its job, make no mistake it was spent to keep us in work and keep the country going.
I understand it is likely, very likely Abbott will win, the shadow of the man , his real self not the controlled person we are seeing.
The fact is Labor is in trouble, internal trouble it made its self, but the country will suffer very much for a very long time if the blindness that is people such as shadow minister prevail.
This country stands to elect [who ever wins] a government that must unite us not break us apart nothing shadow minister posts is balanced.

fully support you Belly, I am not exclusively a lib /lab voter, i'm that horrid swinger. I see the problems labor is having and shake my head in amazement. All i have to do to give them another go is look at Abbott. No way. Surely Julia will get on top of what Kevin couldn't.

Shadow minister, yes that news paper article with it's need to be a sensation for circulation said what it said, just most of it is contradicted by yesterdays interim report and by the P&C association. Our own principle was recently taken out of context and quoted as disapproving of our new library under the BER scheme, he was Furious but got no apology or withdrawal from the news paper. Yes it cost to much and i have agreed many times to this but no it was not a waist and in most cases the cost is very easy to explain. The small amount of ripp offs will be found and dealt with and are only so obvious because of the scale and exposure of the operation. The constant attacks on these programs using news paper articles carries no credibility. Principles who have no idea about building and project management would do well to concentrate on the education of their students that they are so heavily criticised over and leave administration to the department.

I have explained this before but for NSW get the department of education building standards, then read the tendering requirements. Add to this the need to have a supervising contractor and the extra demand on resources you will find most of your cost. These standards and contractual conditions don't apply to catholic schools. So nothing stops them laying unsprung floors in their halls or putting budget carpet in their class room. when problems are discovered with the buildings during renovation, such as the discovery of asbestos. This is costly to deal with and common in older government schools.

Any CEO who "allows himself to be ripped off" ends up bankrupting the company and finds himself not only unemployed but unemployable. (if not actually in jail.)

JG is trying to say that because they meant well its all OK.

The sooner Wayne Swan joins the unemployment queue the better. (I look forward to his swan song :-)

shadow minister like his party shows little regard for truth.
Often he and others say I am biased, yet no mirrors must exist in their homes.
AFTER the election I intend to start threads that question my party.
One that will call for the total defeat of the NSW government, as a favor to those who want to rebuild it to the party it once was.
Self interest lies and made up headlines dominate us, are we heading for a world that no longer wants honesty?
We stand weeks away from an Abbott win, our country's loss, but put shadow and his like in power and we all pay.

Nairbe, you may want to believe little Julie wont be just as bad, but you know you can't.

It has been an other spendthrift labor government, & you know, just as well as I do, another attempt will be no better.

I hoped for years that they could become competent, but I have finally realised it is a structural problem. To get elected they have to promise [publicly, or privately], so much to so many special interest groups, that there is no way they can live within a budget.

This of course forces them to spin, & that becomes yet another bad habit. You know damn well, they can't tell the simple facts about anything, the spin has become automatic.

Why is it that so many otherwise intelligent people can't face facts? Put this lot back in, & in less than 9 months, when it is far too late, you will see that all those promises of getting back to balanced budget, are as hollow as a double brick wall.

Hasbeen,

I can not agree that the financial management has been poor. Economically the government did well over the GFC. Especially when you remember that they were always under attack for spending and would have to go against everything they said to get elected to do the right thing. The failure was to spend too much over to smaller spectrum of projects and then manage them poorly. In the end to much faith in the state labor governments that let them doen on regulation and efficient tendering.

My real problem with Tony is i don't trust him one little bit. This is not calling him a liar when after all they are all telling porky pies to get elected. This is a problem with the person. I honestly believe he do not intend to do half of what he says and will take us backwards on many levels. When Howard got in we needed the move to conservative politics to rite the ship, but we are starting from a far to conservative social position and it will all end in more interventions and wars for us as he tries to tell every one how to live. This is often the issue conservatives have about socialists but the conservatives are the leaders in this game. Just consider the direction of law in this country and the erosion of our freedoms over the last 12 years and look at what lead to each change. FEAR! More fear so soon can not be healthy for a nation already confused about the difference between patriotism and nationalism.

Nairbe,

For someone that claims to be a swing voter, you are parroting Labor's lines. You say their financial management was good, and then give the exact reasons why it was bad?

The coalition have never claimed that they would not have included some stimulus, only that it would have achieved the same result with substantially lower cost.

Starting from $20bn surplus we are now $90bn in debt. While this is better than most OECD countries, most OECD countries started with massive debt. We started in a stellar position and ended in a good position.

Shadow Minister links to The Australian newspaper. A Murdoch pap sheet that I wouldn't even bother read in the first place

Besides that the paltry $20bn surplus Howard had, was acquired through the selling of valuable national profit making assets, such as Telstra
and the mining boom, and failing to spend on infrastructure/skills, welfare health education and so on for 12 yrs etc.

The surplus had little to do with the economic performance of the Howard Gov't and was not even a good deal considering the sacrifices made by the many, to serve the needs of the few. Tax cuts favouring wealthier people and pork barreling also reduced it.

If anything they were as Keating described; indolent economically.

Although we can thank their doctrines for G.S.T, or the changes to the trade practices act,
that I was reminded of when I drove to and from work today and watched the petrol price
fluctuate by 16 cents in one day, and lets not forget Workchoices the final plank in their plans for a Serfdom.

No Shadow Minister the forgotten factor is, that our memories aren't that short. We do remember this out here.

I think SM , that despite what you or the Australian Newspaper would have us believe
about where we are now and where we've come from, the truth is a long way from those interpretations.

Tony Abbott is still Tony Abbott and look at his front Bench.
Deputy's Truss and Julie Bishop, Rudduck, Andrews, Bronwyn Bishop and Morrison
( a new generation tub thumper ),Whiney Piney and duck off ( to a safer electorate )
Dutton and lets not forget the loveable and lightweight Joe Hockey for Treasurer.

Wow, I'm looking forward to them running the country again. Not!.

Thinker2,

It never struck me that reading was your strong point.

Now that the mining boom is making far more profit and tax revenue than it ever did under the Howard government, how on earth does Julia Dullard justify increasing the mining tax to the highest in the world?

What's good for the gander is good for the goose.

Reading propaganda is not my strong point.

My literacy I'd think, is above average SM.

I hope my description of "the paper thin nature" of the Abbott front bench,
didn't offend you SM. But I am genuinely concerned about the re-ascension
of these ideologues and their new generation apprentices.

Frankly, we are talking about the future of our country here.

Thinker2

Compared to the present Labor government, the liberals are economic giants.

The present incumbents have not implemented one policy that improves the lot of the average Aussie.

PS. As Telstra is tanking, it was a good call to sell what ever they could. With the NBN, the government is attempting to set up another bureaucratic state owned monopoly.

Of course if we do have a state owned National Broadband Network, then the benefits and the rewards
(in terms of profits) will go back to the taxpayer.

When Howard sold the farm in Telstra it was a monopoly. I think it economic stupidity
to sell a public monopoly owned by the people, to private interests from overseas.
It is tantamount to selling the home you own and renting it back off the person you sold it too.
I am reminded of the nursery rhyme "Little Jack Horner".

There are also national security reasons why you should not allow monopoly private interests to own your tele-communications
as Salvadore Allende found out when murdered and overthrown by Pinochet in a coup.

In addition Howard sweetened the pot for the purchaser of Telstra and the purchasers of other privatised utilities
by weakening the trade practices act, virtually allowing them to charge what they like for these essential services,
resulting in price rises we see today, way beyond the inflation figure.

I was appalled by Joe Hockey attempting to make a link, (7.30 Report 12 aug), between the current Gov't
and the dis-proportionately rising prices of things like electricity power and gas. When it is the privatisation mantra, (that his party continues to espouse), and a weakened trade practices act that is the root cause of these obscene price rises.

Strangely he also mentioned the trade practices act (something I've never heard his side of politics mention)
since they meddled with it in favour of business interests.

Are you Joe Hockey SM?