Would you let your neighbour steal from you,then loan this money back to you at interest and be greatful for being shafted?

This is what the fractional reserve system of banking does to all people on this planet.This systems allows banks to create 9 times the amount of money they have in desposits they have in their accounts and loan it at interest to us,in the form of debt.Some of this debt money ends up in bank accounts thus adding to the debt spiral.

Prior 2008 the yearly average inflation since 1913 was 3.5%.Inflation compounds like interest,so every 10 yrs we lose 41% of the value of our currency.Who creates all this new money? If we as individuals do it,we get arrested for counterfeiting.Today the banking system steals from us by devaluing our currencies via inflation.

Since 1913 at the inception of the US Federal Reserve our currency has lost 96% of its value.This means that banks have created 25 times the amount of currency above pop increases and GDP needed to accommodate a balanced economy.Just think about how powerful it has made a few individuals who are able to pervert our economies and political processes.

Money has no intrinsic worth.It represents the productivity of the people.By letting international reserve banks create our money,by default,we are letting them own our productivity,which they then loan back to us at interest.This is why we are in so much debt.

Paul Keating should never have sold off the Commonwealth Bank.It was creating new money to equal our productivity and pop increases.Now off shore interests are creating money in their computers which represents our daily toil.

The creation of the credit card was another blow to our sovereignity.Our Govt used to create a lot of cash as the medium of exchange.Foreign Corps like VISA,American Express,Master card etc now create our currency through debt.

What is your solution to this current crisis?

Our personal debt is now $1.2 trillion up 71% in 5yrs and so for the first time is greater than our GDP.In US $ per capita our debt is $56,000,while in the US it is $44,000.Sources RBA

In 2009 debit card cash withdrawls dropped by 6.3% more than twice the rate of the previous two years.The average credit card balance is - $3,140.Total card balances outstanding is $45 billion.We have some of the most expensive real estate on the planet which in reality it over valued.Many people seem to be using the equity in their houses to maintain their living standards.

Next year we will probably see a fall in house prices and if unemployment increases due to interest rate pressures ,people could be left homeless and still in debt.

Well put Arjay and it is ironic that the first to jump up and down about printing money for infrastructure projects accept this state of affairs as the norm. And that is what it is happening - a banking license to print money.

Commonsense tells us we have to rethink traditional approaches to economics otherwise we remain subject to the whims of puppetmasters.

Professor Stephen Marglin talks much about the limits of economics and why we need to re-think many of the assumptions we take for granted.

http://www.globalissues.org/video/769/stephen-marglin-rethinking-economics

"His current research focuses on the foundational assumptions of economics, asking to what extent these assumptions are a reflection of the culture and history of the Modern West rather than a set of facts about a universal human nature."

Arjay “This is what the fractional reserve system of banking does to all people on this planet.This systems allows banks to create 9 times the amount of money they have in desposits they have in their accounts and loan it at interest to us”

Only just discovered the interest rate multiplier or whatever you chose to call it Arjay?

I was taught all about that back in 1970, when doing economics as part of my professional training

It is one reason why central banks use interest as a monetary regulator is because the exact formula is based on the reciprocal if the interest rate is the multiplier it means higher interest rate lower the multiplier and reduced bank lending aka a "Credit Squeeze".

As for homeless and still in debt

Yes, that might happen to a few who overextended but banks apply the 3C rule

Collateral (valuable property)
Capacity (income)
Credit worthiness (prime = No Defaults)

And of course they also calculate “capacity” based on applying an additional 2 % above the current lending rate
And only lend with a default insurance policy in place

That all tends to minimize the wider impacts of downturns

Now, what happened in US with sub-prime debt, where bankers were forced, by loss of licence to lend to undesirable applicants to meet an ethnic affirmative action quota, along with instead of the borrower allowed off the hook with the jingle-mail laws, thus having no incentive from an ongoing liability beyond default of mortgage -

Was the sub-primes just defaulted and sent back their house keys and left the banks with the unsupported and unsecured debt and the houses… hence the GFC

So if a few folk end-up broke and homeless, lets just say that is par for the course, just as some idiots end up with bankrupt businesses

But lots of others manage their debt, manage their lives and balance their budget quite adequately

Stern obioviously has not a clue what is unfolding right now.It won't be just a few who will lose their house.In the USA the real unemployment rate is 18%.Some places have 50% unemployment.35 million below the poverty line.Many are now forced off unemployment and are on food stamps.California is officially broke.We have higher per capita debt than the USA.You have not addressed the theft of our money through inflation ie the dilution of our currency.

Pelican,we must once again have as national bank owned by our Govt.If we use more cash this forces the mint to create more currency.Our Govts must be forced to release more lans for housing and take off their taxes/charges that make up 38% of a house/land package.

We should also consider a tax on the fraction reserve system when it creates too much money.This is system is a failure.It feeds a dervivate share market that steals from the general populace and destroys real productivity.

The best way to educate the population is through the children.They are open to new ideas and have the time to research topics on the web.So handing out pamphlets that explain simply with good web references is a cheap and effective form of communication.

*And that is what it is happening - a banking license to print money.*

Not so Pelican. We've been through all this before with Arjay, but
he just doesen't get it. What banks in fact do, is lend out money
that depositers place with them. Yup, that increases the money
supply, quite different to printing money however.

Now if Arjay and you think that banks should not be allowed to lend
out money deposited, they would simply charge you a fee for guarding
your assets and there would be no credit available.

So if you wanted to buy a house, or a car, or a business, or increase
your business etc, bad luck, pay cash or do without.

The first consequence would be mass unemployment. The second
consequence would be that the rich would become even richer.
For only those with cash could use that cash to create more cash,
by owning houses, businesses, which the rest of us could not afford.

Reserve banks have been created as they are, for good reasons.
Having politicians with their hands on the printing presses, would
be a recipee for disaster. So reserve banks are structured in a
way where they are apolitical and their job is to do what is best
for the economy as a whole, not what is best for the present party
in Govt.

What matters is this: Profits from both the Fed or the RBA and similar, are paid back to the treasuries of their respective
countries.

So Arjay really has his knickers in a twist for no good reason.

Stern,
"So if a few folk end-up broke and homeless, let's just say it is par for the course..."

Arjay mentioned the situation in California where they owe nineteen billion and have just begun to enforce compulsory three day furlows a month for most government workers who are being paid a very low wage.... that no doubt is par for the course., as well.
California, if it was a country, would have the eighth largest economy in the world...but they are writing IOU's to pay their debts...par for the course, no doubt.
Slashing programs left, right and centre, ordering government workers off the job...the state is broke...nothing wrong - par for the course.

Yabby "We've been there before." "Govt should not have control of money creation" We are are still in the greatest economic melt down in over 70 yrs and it could become a lot worse than the Great Depression.

I know people who have over $30,000 on credit card and trapped in debt.We have $ 45 billion owing on credit card,total debt of $ 1.2 trillion( over $200,000 for very working person),there are $ trillions of derivatives inter-wovern in our share market and thus super funds.If this unravels,it will be a disaster.You then have the audacity to say we can trust all powerful private globlal reserve banks.Even Pericles conceeded defeat a few months ago when I said if we let the IMF or private banks create inflationaary money in their computers and get charged interest on it,why not create our own money and have far less debt?

Why would you pay interest on money that should be rightfully yours.ie it represents your own productivty? I think you have a disconnect with logic here Yabby? The synapses are not connecting.When we owned the Commonwealth Bank,debt levels were far lower than now.If proper regulation is there,we will have far less debt,more productivity and savings if taxes are taken off savings.

Poirot,I think it is time to educate the population.It can been done effectively through the children at school who will in turn educate their parents.The trick is simple explanations that relate to their experiences.

I think things really started to get out of hand when that 9:1 or 10:1 ratio used for the Fractional Reserve system was artifically boosted through deregulation in the US.

I've read that if you signed-up for a credit card with say, a $5,000 limit, the bank would treat that as if you opened a "virtual account" and loan money on that basis alone - even if the card was never used.

The true Fractional Reserve ratio is believed to have climbed to 25:1 and it only took a minor jolt to bring the whole house of cards down.

Now they're fixing it by creating yet more debt.

As the saying goes - "stupidity got us into this mess, maybe stupidity will get us out of it".

*Slashing programs left, right and centre, ordering government workers off the job...the state is broke...nothing wrong - par for the course.*

Poirot, it sounds to me that you are trying to blame the financial
system, for what is wrong with the electoral system. The way I
understand the Californian situation, citizens have the right to
pass various referendums, which they did. Problem is that they
voted for more and more from Govt, but denied Govt the right to
raise taxes, to pay for all those things. The net result is clear
for all to see. If you spend more then you earn, there will be
disaster, be that private or be that a Govt.

*Even Pericles conceeded defeat a few months ago*

When it comes to economic matters Arjay, I have yet to see Pericles
concede defeat to any of your claims. But keep dreaming if you will.

*When we owned the Commonwealth Bank,debt levels were far lower than now.*

I know Arjay, credit was simply not available. I remember going
crawling to the Commonwealth Development Bank for a loan, in the
70s. They knocked me back, clearly in their eyes I had no hope
of being a farmer. Luckily the Commercial Bank, later to become
Westpac, had some faith in me. I still bank with them to this
day.

Now if you are a young plumber or electrician or whatever and want
to set up your own business, then you need credit to do so. Young
people can do these things today. They were stuck on wages before
that credit was available. Only the rich with cash were calling the
shots. That sounds fair to you?

Wobbles if the 25:1 fractional reserve creation of money is true,then we are in for hyper-inflation and disaster.This means that interest rates will rise dramatically because the banks won't lose out,property prices will fall dramatically and those cashed up will buying property very cheaply.It could mean a sub-prime mortage debacle for us since our properties are way over priced.

It many have got beyond the stage of stopping a really big collapse.I recently met a Professor who has credible contacts in Swiss Banking,they also hyper-inflation or even stag-flation with prices increasing with high interest rates and high unemployment.We are really in a worse situation than the Great Depression because we a service /consumer based economy that services wants rather needs.We virtually have no manufacturing.

Yabby,If you are in the counterfeiting criminal business,why would you pay a foreign company to run your presses here in Australia?

Poirot When I lived in USA (not just vacationing) the view of California, from the rest of the States was that California was over-governed, over-taxed and over-itself.

You see all those poor-paid government sector workers would not have had jobs in other states in the first place.

Then the State of California would not have needed to levy the “state income tax” which does not exist in say Texas or New Hampshire.

Then the poor paid state workers would not be taking furlows or having their pay reduced.

It is like this Poirot, when you institutionalise bad, inefficient socialism it costs and you create vulnerable class.

It happened in UK in 1970s millions of useless nationalised industry workers who did not have productive jobs which could be justified on the basis of added-value but socialist jobs which added no value except to employ an individual in the comfort of pointless existence, instead of creating wealth by having a real job.

So “Slashing programs left, right and centre, ordering government workers off the job...the state is broke...nothing wrong - par for the course.”

I would note the 8th largest economy is based on the private sector, the ones who create the wealth from which the state extorts taxes to pay these pointless government workers

Especially when the programs were based on socialist mantra and pointless in the first place.

Just like Greece, California has to bite the bullet, so to speak and get its profligacy back under control.

You might complain but in truth, It is all just the price of previous, stupid socialist excess.

Arjay, I guess you still have not worked it our yet,

The primary cause for hyper-inflation is when governments run a sustained deficit budget, spending money in excess of the taxes they levy, like Greece

And like the morons of socialism which we are suffering from in the Rudd/Gissards government.....

Stern,scratch the surface and you'll see who are really behind these Govt escesses.Who pannickewd Rudd and Gillard into unnecessary bailouts?It was advice form the RBA.Who is on the board of the RBA? Basically corporate interests.We got the debt from borrowing from China and big business got the micky mouse contracts and much of it went off shore.many now admit that the stimulus did nothing.They should have lowered taxes and kept interest rates low.

We live in an oligarchy.It is Ruppert Murdoch and Fairfax press who decide which party will be in power.Both Labor and Liberal ar just fronts for big business interests.

Big business love socialists Govts because they feed of our taxes eg so called free medicine.We over use drugs and medical services because we perceive them to be free.Big business cleans up again.

*Yabby,If you are in the counterfeiting criminal business,why would you pay a foreign company to run your presses here in Australia?*

You go on and on about this stuff Arjay, the penny simply refuses
to drop. Australia could well simply print more dollar notes.
The market would take note and as our currency is valued by the
market, react accordingly. The Australian $ would simply be
devalued, depending on how much is printed. It happened to
Zimbabwe too.

This is the amusing thing about your logic. One moment you scream
about inflation, next moment you suggest methods to increase it.
I can only conclude that you are well out of your depth here.

*We virtually have no manufacturing.*

That is a nonsense too. As it happens we still make cars, you
can still go and buy your Australian made dishwasher, fridge or
washing machine tomorrow if you wish. We simply make less
Australian toasters and other consumer goods, as people have a choice
these days and local manufacturers have to compete with US, European
and Asian products.

But if you are doing engineering for mining companies, you would
be run off your feet. They can't even find enough welders to keep
up. Heavy engineering is thriving, but those products don't appear
at your local Harvey Norman store. There is also more to Australia
then just Sydney, where you live.

*It can been done effectively through the children at school who will in turn educate their parents.*

Now you want to indoctrinate you kiddies with your nonsense. You
sound as fanatical as the Catholic Church!

Tut,tut Yabby,you are getting all emotional.How about confronting some of the facts I've presented and back them up with stats as I've done.Not one of my arguments have you refuted.

Big business does like socialist Govts and their big taxes with a counterfeiting banking system to prop them up.In both world wars the banksters teamed up with the arms dealers to make profit from misery.The same is happening today.

When you see their devious minds at work,they really aren't that smart.In the end they bring themselves and us all undone.

The GFC has just begun,all orchestrated by our global elites but they now are losing control.My prediction like in the past that war will be their way out.

Well here's proof that the RBA does not create the currency to equal our GDP + Inflation rate + population increases.In 80/09 the RBA had an accounting profit of $8.8 billion,but the previous yr was only $1.4 billion.Dividend paid to the Govt was $5.9 billion.

We now have a GDP of Aust is $ 1.2 trillion.GDP is 3% pa and inflation rate is 3.5%.So we have an increase of 6.5% in the money supply which is $78 billion.Now the RBA in that exceptional yr paid the Govt only $ 5.9 billion in dividends.Who got the other $72 billion? It did not include pop increases.

In other words Yabby,the money for the creation of inflation and GDP was created by other sources and not the RBA.Most of our private banks borrow from OS Global Reserve banks who create this money in their computers.

"Now you want to indoctrinate you kiddies with your nonsense. You
sound as fanatical as the Catholic Church!"

Your aforementioned conspectus to Arjay was going well Yabby until I realised you are a product of the generalised media and OLO catholic haters ie "knock the catholic churches and all of its people down/they have condoned and caused paedophilia within the catholic churches and system".

What are you Yabby? Christian? An Anglican/Church of England or a victim of the catholic church and upbringing. Or raised as Church of England? Perhaps some of the Anglican Church volunteers who used to attend childrens camps [one of which I was sent on during primary school holidays with a friend] should be investigated too? A woman tried hitting on me by exposing herself when I was ten years old; the below region not top region.

Regardless, it is no excuse to degrade Australians who belong or attend catholic masses and confessions across Australia and/or participate in the catholic system preferring to send their children through catholic schools.

Do I generalise about Australians who belong to the Anglican Churches or other denominations? No!

Such a narrow minded tunnel visioned outlook singling out one and all within catholic churches Yabby. How sad that all of you 'catholic haters' wishing to dish and eke your revenge or display insecurities have not bothered to look beyond one denomination. It is one thing addressing issues involving paedophilia; another issue falsifying and condemning innocent Australians who happen to attend mass on Saturday or Sundays for a bit of peace brought into their lives.

Commence a thread on other religions and its members: I could tell you a few stories expressing factual fair and non-generalised accounts of other denominational participants; given that as a Christian of various children and youth programs and organisations, have mixed with hundreds of people from diverse denominations

*Tut,tut Yabby,you are getting all emotional*

That is very sweet of you Arjay, but I'm not quite sure,
what I'm seemingly getting emotional about.

*How about confronting some of the facts I've presented*

So let me look at some of your facts, like this one:

*I know people who have over $30,000 on credit card and trapped in debt.*

I guess they will have to learn Arjay, that when people borrow money,
they have to repay it or declare themselves bankrupt. Anything
at all can be misused. If you don't teach a kid how to use matches,
they can burn the house down. That does not mean that we should
ban matches.

Yes I know that you predict war and that you think that the evil
banksters are in cahoots with the evil arms dealers.

Now do you have anything of any kind of signficance to say, apart
from more consipiracy theories?

If your comment was a 'one off' Yabby I would not be annoyed; however you appear to deliberately pop this line into your comments regularly in threads whereby it is irrelevant to the Catholic Church. Why? Is it to bait Catholics or air your hurts via generalisations? I am hurt for my parents friends and other Australians who just happen to attend Mass on a Sunday, and have voluntarily participated in high profile charitable causes and programs, to benefit thousands of Australians across the nation.

Sit back and receive; yet generalise and condemn appears to be the situation of 'catholic haters'. Australians of all denominations give give give of their time and money to assist every day Australians; many of these Christian people have never been acknowledged for their work over 20 or 30 years.

I give up with people who generalise. You are yet another Yabby and its disappointing when you are quite clearly a lateral thinker and intelligent.

Arjay “Who pannickewd Rudd and Gillard into unnecessary bailouts?”

Well I can guarantee the same folk who would not have panicked a Liberal government, had they been in power.

After a decade of liberal conservancy and sensible stewardship, Rudd and Gillard and their union cronies were behaving like vampires in a blood bank, consuming scarce taxpayers funds in an orgy of pointless profligacy and spend – like there is no tomorrow or reckoning.

As for the RBA – they are a mere central bank, not the arbiters of the whole economy.

Where, under a capitalist / pluralist system is no one in absolute control... especially not a government of supposed law makers.

“Big business love socialists Govts because they feed of our taxes eg so called free medicine.We over use drugs and medical services because we perceive them to be free.Big business cleans up again.”

Well vote Liberal, the way I have always voted, Arjay and do your “individual thing” for democracy and against big business,

And see if you can find some Prozac among those free drugs you are twittering on about

I don't really think that "facts" are at issue here, Arjay.

>>How about confronting some of the facts I've presented...<<

In order to be able to use facts, you need to understand, just a little, of the subject itself. Instead, you have consistently demonstrated that you understand nothing at all about finance, not even the very basics.

>>the yearly average inflation since 1913 was 3.5%.Inflation compounds like interest,so every 10 yrs we lose 41% of the value of our currency<<

The "value of our currency" is reflected in the goods and services we can buy with it. If, for example, you were to take today's average weekly wage and spend it in 1913, you would be able to buy a substantial house in one of Sydney's leafier suburbs.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6302.0/

In fact, today's weekly average of around $1,200 is equivalent to five and a half years' wages, back then.

So your mathematical formulae demonstrate exactly the opposite to that which you are suggesting.

>>Since 1913 at the inception of the US Federal Reserve our currency has lost 96% of its value<<

Except, of course, that your weekly wage buys 285 times more.

Until you understand the mechanics behind that simple statistic, everything you say about the financial systems will be nonsense

Stop writing slogans, and start understanding a little about your subject matter.

In the meantime, have a great day.

Pericles,while wages have increased with inflation,over the last 30 yrs they have progressively lagged behind.This,you cannot deny.It now takes 2 incomes to survive.When we went off the gold standard in the 70's and the money supply increased expodentially. My father in the 60's raised 5 children on a single wage, earned as a factory floor worker.

We have all sorts of efficiencies such as robotics which have made cars cheaper,computers which do the work of many office workers,yet we work harder and longer for a lower living standard.The big issue is housing.Since we sent our manufacturing off shore,jobs have been concentrated in the large cities where the bubble of international finanace happens.So Govts beseiged by debt have progressively sold off their income earning assets.They then tax land and housing to make up the short falls.38% of a house /land package is made up of Govt taxes and charges. How can a large country such as ours,with so much resources and energy,and small population,have the most expensive realestate on the planet?

The answer is lack of sovereignity whereby our policical elites have sold us out to the global corporates.The corporate elites love socialist govts since they are collect lots of tax which can be siphoned off to their service scams.The classic example is the schools debacle.$ billions wasted on non productive buildings.This money was borrowed from China.Leightons is a pommy based co.Very little of this money stayed in the local economies.The really big scam is socialised health.

So Pericles,log onto Ron Paul and learn about freedom.

We may be getting somewhere. Slowly.

>>Pericles,while wages have increased with inflation...<<

That's a start, at least. The next step is to relate this to purchasing power, and we're half way there.

But...

>>...over the last 30 yrs they have progressively lagged behind.This,you cannot deny<<

Well, yes I can, Arjay. So, show me.

Provide the figures that show that wages have lagged behind inflation.

I presume you have them at your fingertips?

Or did it just seem a clever thing to say?

*while wages have increased with inflation,over the last 30 yrs they have progressively lagged behind*

Not so Arjay. The ABS has published enough stats to show that real
wages run well ahead of inflation.

What has changed in 40 years, is expectations.

40 years ago, the standard was a 3 by 1 fibro home of 12-13 squares.
Today it is double that.

40 years ago your average man drove a 186 Holden. Air conditioning
could only be dreamed of. Today it is standard. The list goes on.

40 years ago, if you had a colour tv, you were thriving. Now kids
who don't have a mobile phone, claim to to be suffering.

Yes, more women work today then ever before. They have aspirations,
like an even larger house, in an even better suburb, with all mod
cons. Their extra wage can make it happen and they might even enjoy
having a career, as distinct from 40 years ago, when careers for
women were frowned upon.

What has changed is that the doting wife might not be ready and
waiting with the proveribal slippers, as she was 40 years ago.

That does not mean that standard of living has dropped, it means
that womens expectations have changed. You remain confused Arjay.

Just another lie Pericles is the average weekly wage/salary of $1200.In true statistics you look at the median wage.The avergae weekly has been distorted by million $ salaries of our elite.

The median salary would be much lower.Also in statistics you knock out the most extreme scores,ie the highest and lowest.

Spell 'proverbial' correctly Yabby and its 'than' not 'then' God bless the Good Chauvanist Shepherd of either fine merinos or cross breds; please dont tell me you run alpacas or goats.

Ok, Arjay.

>>Just another lie Pericles is the average weekly wage/salary of $1200.In true statistics you look at the median wage.The avergae weekly has been distorted by million $ salaries of our elite.<<

I don't mind which you use, average or mean.

Just show me where you found the numbers that say "while wages have increased with inflation,over the last 30 yrs they have progressively lagged behind."

Either way, you will find that - according to your own reasoning - we are still around 285 times "better off" than we were in 1913.

Which is, of course, as fallacious an argument as saying "our currency has lost 96% of its value". But at least it uses the same fallacy.

I know that it is your obsession, Arjay, but you really should not allow it to corrupt your thought processes in the way that it has.

>>Would you let your neighbour steal from you,then loan this money back to you at interest and be greatful for being shafted? This is what the fractional reserve system of banking does to all people on this planet.<<

You have never been able to support this idea of yours with anything more than empty slogans.

If I borrow money - if governments borrow money - we are all obliged to repay it. The salient feature of the fractional reserve system is that the money I have borrowed only really "exists" in the sense that I can pay it back. This we have all learned the hard way, with the discovery of a mass of toxic loans in the US economy.

But nobody has stolen from their neighbour.

As your own example shows very clearly, that neighbour has become steadily better off over the years. And much of that new prosperity has arisen from the ability of the financial system to lend to businesses, that grow and expand the economy, using only the promise of repayment (with a reserve of 10% of deposits) as security.

You are tilting at entirely the wrong windmill, Arjay. Luckily, you have your very own Sancho Panza to guide you.

*The median salary would be much lower.*

So what evidence do you have for your claims Arjay? Are you
forgetting all those mining salaries well over 100k$? There
is a great deal happening, outside of Sydney's suburbia.

Unique, perhaps you should go and play on the Womens Weekly
website, where you can chitchat away to your heart's content.
Or at least stick to the topic, as per forum rules.

LOL...have not flicked through a Womens Weekly in well over 15 years Yabby; go and drench crutch or do your meuling or jetting; some for you too perhaps!

typo: an 's' for snake omitted in 'mulesing'

For the record Arjay; all your points are factual and up to date in relation to the current housing market and wage scales. Yabby perhaps reads a little too many Fin Reviews, The Land and Australian newspapers, views far too many international documentaries, returns to his paddocks, and is out of touch with suburban city living and costs.

In most capital cities as you and I both know as a reality Arjay, the lowest value is $370/400,000K soaring upwards. Unless a person [not a couple] has been left a property/properties or has had a guarantor starting out in life 20 years ago or is earning over $45,000K [on a sole wage]; chances are that a Bank or financial institution will not grant them a home loan. Within capital cities where the work and better paid employment exists, there are not smaller fibro or weatherboard homes or homes under $370,000.

There may be one or two decrepit homes falling down within a suburb if one is fortunate, to purchase under $350,000 [within capital cities].

For goodness sake get in touch with reality and real every day people.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/27/2910780.htm

Sheesh, the median house price is 400k in Adelaide and the poor girl can't
find a suitable house within 10% of that. The same girl who
claims that not having an overseas holiday is "doing it tough"

Never mind buying a unit or renting, or buying an old place and
doing it up. She clearly never lived through the 18% interest rate
saga of the early 90s!

High expectations is the real problem, some people have never done
it tough.

Unique, best you go and annoy the bloke who married you, for you
arn't making much sense on this thread and he, for better or for
worse, agreed to put up with you.

I have only EVER been overseas once Yabby in my lifetime [my honeymoon]; marrying a Grazier for 20 years dashed my hopes of ever travelling; you know, doing all the accountancy and admin work, the physical work running fine merinos in addition to working part-time and full-time when it was not crutching, lamb tailing or shearing times and of course just about single handedly raising my children with different health problems [the most important], battling and paying probate, crooks, et all; in the name of bleating sheep.

Overcoming all the financial obstacles; oh yes I had time to sit and flick through a womens weekly and think "isnt it tough; this month or year 'I cant enjoy an overseas holiday'". I did not ever have the luxury of the thought to dream about it.

Guess what though Yabby? My 'tough' days are over and I have left the lot in order to work full time and enjoy a camping and fishing holiday between now and the end of this year. Any Farmer or Grazier looking for a wife I'll flaming well run a mile.

Thank goodness the grazing and farming males on my side comprehend [through their children in their twenties and thirties]how people in the cities are struggling to pay their mortgages utilities and groceries; particularly those with children.

Little wonder there are the Aussie programs for Farmers [and Graziers] seeking wives! Do NOT sign up Ladies I am warning you all! Expect to work 3 or 4 jobs minus any acknowledgement or luxuries for the initial 20 or 30 years. It takes these years to build up the wool micron and battle through droughts and other obstacles.

Unless you marry a SNAG who is in touch with his feelings, not a Chauvanist and greatly appreciates the hard extra work you do as a team; love just may conquer all.

we are unique,The big issue is this new money being created by our banking systems. $78 billion pa represents 6.5% of GDP and new inflationary money.It belongs to all the people pf Austarlia.One would think that the RBA would create all this new money,but they only gave a dividend to the Govt 08/09 of just $5.9 billion.It is the private banks who borrow from the international reserve banks that have us in so much debt.We have given away our wealth to have it loaned back to us as debt.

Yabby and Pericles.They love me on the Ron Paul site and one in particlar,is thinking about implementing some of my ideas.

No surprise there, Arjay.

>>Yabby and Pericles.They love me on the Ron Paul site and one in particlar,is thinking about implementing some of my ideas.<<

I'm sure that you fit right in.

There is a difference, though, between exchanging wacko nut-job theories about how wonderful life would be if only we were paid in gold bars, and if only the banks didn't lend us money, etc. etc., and living in the real world.

The really sad part is that it is not that difficult to understand, if only you put your mind to it. Instead of which, you mindlessly repeat slogans, when you could be listening, challenging, thinking and learning.

The areas you should be questioning are:

>>...banks have created 25 times the amount of currency above pop increases and GDP needed to accommodate a balanced economy.<<

What, in your terms, constitutes a "balanced economy"? How would that affect economic growth? How would it impact our international competitiveness?

What would have been the impact on the economy, if the banks had not, in your terms, "created" all that money? Would we still own any businesses at all, here in Australia, or would they all have been taken over by overseas corporations?

When you have been able to answer these relatively straightforward questions, you will understand exactly how wildly impractical - and dangerous - are Ron Paul's theories.

I hold out little hope for answers, of course. That would require logic and clarity, whereas your favoured approach uses emotion and sloganeering.

But I encourage you to try.

Incidentally, any hope of getting answers to the other questions you have left lying around in the course of this thread?

Thought not.

Thanks for the heads-up on this, by the way Arjay.

>>They love me on the Ron Paul site...<<

I hadn't realized that there was such a lively comments track over there...

http://www.ronpaul.com/misc/discuss/

But it does explain a great deal about the flavour of your posts here.

Here's one of Ron Paul's fanboys, advocating... well, you work it out.

"I am very angry and ready to make WAR! This is not a time for the union of the Nations. This is the time for the division of Nations who appreciate true Freedom and Independence. The Union of all the Nations is a global economic fantasy of the foolish, cowardly and ludicrous International Tyrannical Terroristic Dictators known as Central Bankers.

Bring it on Rothschild! Bring it on Rockefellers. Bring it on Warburg. You have had your way with many peoples of the world; NOW the LORD of HOST will let you be consumed by the FIRE of your own Creation. We know you have the ‘lost nukes under your sleeves’. You cannot hide from the LORD! Get on your knees before the ‘Key of David’ and make an effort to save yourself and your families by giving up your ludicrous plans. Embrace ‘The Kingdom of God on Earth’ as it is, was and ever shall be in Heaven..."

Here's the thing, Arjay.

That stuff is bad for you.

It's bad for your brain. It drips away and rots your powers of independent reasoning.

Give it up. It is all baloney anyway.