Ludwig says:

"... I was of the impression that any poster
who infringed the rules, even really blatantly,
would get a warning first before the big stick
was whacked across their backside.

I’ve always had a very good relationship with
Graham, up until this point. It has certainly
been damaged."



Welcome back to the Forum, Ludwig.



I am pleased your suspension was only for 24 hours. I am wondering whether the suspension of others is anyway proportionate to the number of posts they had deleted. I guess we will soon find out, maybe in two more days, no?

I'd cut Graham a bit of slack on this one, Ludwig. It is my suspicion that he may be a little taxed at the moment over technical issues that appear to be intermittently affecting the Forum's functionality. I tried to implicitly suggest that there might be attempts at interference with the Forum from outside to other posters, some of whom were protagonists in the brawl, with this post to the 'Refugees will be an election issue' thread: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10680#176808 (which, strangely, I can access through my user history, which is up in a different tab, even though I can't get the index right now). It seems, however, there is no overcoming of offended online dignity when it is in full flight: straight over everybody's heads it went, leaving me having perhaps sailed close to the wind for nothing. You ponder its possible implications, Ludwig. I don't really want to flaunt what I did, and it is just possible I made a mistake as to having in fact posted.

I suppose Wyatt, if he is watching, might be wondering what this is all about. It might be a good test of his perceptiveness. I do so, so, want to post to George Williams' article about the electoral rolls.

Now, FWIW, the words I was not going to put in your mouth:

Here are the 2007 Federal election results for the Division of Longman: http://results.aec.gov.au/13745/website/HouseDivisionFirstPrefs-13745-302.htm

And here are the 2004 Federal election results: http://results.aec.gov.au/12246/results/HouseDivisionFirstPrefs-12246-302.htm

Ludwig, "It is not Wyatt's age or inexperience that matters, it is his and his party's principles and policies."

Well said, of course voters should be using their brains and not their prejudices to choose their representatives. It is the emotional outburst that so often lifts the veil to show the prejudice and hubris beneath:

C J Morgan, "I for one wouldn't vote for someone as young and inexperienced as Wyatt Roy to represent me in parliament, whatever party they belonged to."

That attitude conflicts with Australian law which thankfully is non-discriminatory, allowing all adults the right to stand for office and represent their electorates.

The same poster's unnecessary and repeated abuse of the youthful but legally adult candidate "he appears to be quite loathsome young twerp" reminds one of the derivation of 'hubris':

"In ancient Greece, hubris referred to actions that shamed and humiliated the victim for the pleasure or gratification of the abuser." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

It is sobering thought that psychologists believe that behaviour generalises.

There is one sense in which there is a direct comparison, at the age of 20, between Wyatt Roy and Johnny Frazer.

It is one to do with their being required, on the basis of the decisions of their respective elders in Parliament assembled, to quite literally put their lives on the line in serving their country.

Whilst it is all too obviously clear how this was required in Johnny's case, it may not be at first sight obvious how it might be required of Wyatt. To see this one needs to recognise both the nature of modern-day terrorism, especially as it might come to be exercised in Australia following the events of recent years, and the technical legal consequences of the amendment of the Commonwealth Electoral Act that changed the number of writs issued from one for every electoral Division, to just eight, one for each State and Territory.

The technical legal consequence of this change is that if just one candidate for any reason dies between the close of nominations and polling day, the whole election in the relevant State or Territory fails. Previously such consequence was quarantined to just that of the election in the specific Division in which the death of a candidate during this interval may have occurred. In what I understand to be the words of one of the foremost constitutional lawyers in the British Commonwealth, a barrister licenced to appear in Australian courts, Leolin Price CBE QC, "sloppy and incompetent legislative drafting".

Terrorist action could hamstring the assembly of a new Parliament!

The change was all done for what, at its most polite, might be described as bureaucratic empire building in the AEC, an after-the-event legitimising of the centralising of the keeping of the then newly computerized electoral rolls, a function that had already been unlawfully usurped from the Divisional Returning Officers who had previously threatened to refuse to certify the accuracy of such rolls for elections.

The government was told of this legislative bungle, Wyatt. http://forums.pmc.gov.au/Electoral_Reform_Green_Paper?page=1

Now any of the likely 1,500 or so candidates have become targets!

Listen to Wyatt Roy on PM this evening: http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2961478.htm

Not just your average 20 year old. A very switched-on fellow with a very real chance of winning in his seat, despite it currently being a Labor seat and despite the general tide of favour for Gillard and Labor.

Wyatt Roy, on the 2007 figures, has to change 2935 voters minds as to how they vote in order to just win by one vote in Longman. See: http://results.aec.gov.au/13745/website/HouseDivisionFirstPrefs-13745-302.htm



It could very well be a case of Roy being the Boy for the Hoi Poloi in Longman.



At 20 years of age Wyatt is at least a clean slate, politically speaking, which is more than can be said for the nongs that can now be seen to have effectively hung a target around his neck. For heaven's sake, it should have been a matter of bi-partisan agreement to have amended Section 154 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act to minimise this exposure of the Australian body politic to terrorists, wingnuts*, or sheer misfortune on the part of just one candidate.

Wyatt should note, however, that the Virtual Tally Room page is no longer the VTR page as it displayed at the finality of the count in 2007. The page layouts have been completely re-jigged. He can learn my take on this here: http://twitpic.com/27ovfm , and here: http://twitpic.com/27ow0g

Here is a link to the dpmc forum on the Electoral Reform Green Paper, for those who wish to navigate their way around for themselves: http://forums.pmc.gov.au/Electoral_Reform_Green_Paper . Note that there are three web pages of comments. A viewer can move forward or backward by clicking the page numbers at the bottom of any page. Just to confuse viewers, the second page of comments shows as 'page 1' in its URL, thus: http://forums.pmc.gov.au/Electoral_Reform_Green_Paper?page=1 , and similarly the third as 'page 2'. Take care if you wish to avoid missing anything. The Green Paper itself can be accessed from a clickable text link at the top of the page.

What were they thinking in Canberra?

*You will note, Ludwig, that I am being fair to our absent Lord Dymo (aka CJMorgan) in using one of his favourite descriptors. I feel its the least I can do for him after the Great Deletion.

Yesterday afternoon I made Google my friend.

Here is how it illuminated me with respect to Wyatt Roy, especially in the light of Ludwig's four opening post questions:
http://www.freedomtodiffer.com/freedom_to_differ/2010/07/q-weekend-article-on-wyatt-roy-the-coalition-kid.html

From that article:

"At Matthew Flinders Anglican college
in Buderim [Wyatt Roy] became best friends
with Patrick Hall, now 19, who suffers
spinal muscular atrophy type II and is
wheelchair-bound. Roy fetched books from
Hall's locker, got him his lunch, wheeled
him into classes. "Wyatt and I became
best mates at school from when we were
about 13", recalls Hall. "He showed great
maturity and leadership looking after me
there and later at Uni. He'd straighten
my head if it tilted over, stuff like that ...
... He has strong beliefs. He is a very
wise soul."

and, at the article's very end:

"As Roy sees us to the door, he offers
an obvious but astonishing fact. "I have
never voted in a federal election. The
first person I will ever vote for is myself."
He grins with the novelty of it. "I had to
wait for the best candidate."

Too right!

Also interesting to learn from the article that the Roy family farm specializes in growing strawberries. Johnny Frazer was frequently referred to by his mates as 'Fraze'. Fraise. Fraises. French for strawberries. Curious, that. Wonder if it means anything?

Come to think of it, Wyatt has an old-looking face for his age, just like Fraze did.

I think Jon Sullivan, the sitting member, may be in trouble.




Yup, Seajaye, no doubt about it. Definitely a quite loathsome young twerp, but under his future leadership his party looks like becoming anything but a joke.

BTW Seajaye, you can sort of get around your suspension from OLO if you want to. The linked-to article has a comments pane. You could give Wyatt the benefit of your considered opinion there. It looks, from the article, as if any feedback would be likely monitored by his campaign staff. Why not tell him what you really think!