I've just watched a debate between Christopher Pyne and Tony Bourke on Late Line.

Oh my, oh my!

Christopher Pyne, the manager of Opposition Business in the House, could ONLY whine, whine and whine (using all the expected whinging slogans). He was an embarrassment.

Has anyone seen his "performances" in the House of Reps? He comes across as a whining, immature complainer with his CONSTANT phony points of order in order to disrupt answers; constantly talking over the Speaker of the House.

He acts like a stereotypical drama queen on the floor of the House, imho.

I think he'll be a terrible liability for the Liberal Party during the upcoming election campaign.

The Liberal Party is is deep trouble. Three renowned "drama queens", Abbott, Pyne and Hockey, will take leading roles for the Liberals in the campaign ....... with all the mud slinging, whinging and drama queen antics they can muster.

And guess what?

By the end of the campaign it'll be shown to backfire badly against them. Aussies HATE politicians who are drama queens and whiners.

It's a shame we have 3 such immature and aggressive men at the forefront of the Liberal Party. We need a STRONG and MATURE opposition, but what have we currently got? A bunch of drama queens. Drama queens who during the campaign will revel in personal attacks, constant whining and rhetoric, rhetoric and more rhetoric. It'll backfire badly. It's NOT what Australia needs! It will cost the Liberal Party much needed votes.

“ Aussies HATE politicians who are drama queens and whiners”

Then, how on earth did the Greens get ANY candidates get elected?

Drama-queenship seems to be a prerequisite for Green candidates.

I think I would agree, Christopher Pyne does not come across as a particularly strong character but it seems to that whilst you might view him as a "weak link"

the mob he opposes are a bunch of factiona run ringo's, who only form a chain for the benefit of public appearance and election

on display, they present as the perfect set of sychophants,

behind closed doors they are a bunch of back-stabbing egos and devils-deal makers.

I know which group has performed better in government and I suppose the strength of the Liberal team means they can carry the odd weak link or two...

Conversely, the socialists cannot hang together long enough to make a daisy chain

And guess what?
benq,
ALP pollies have been doing the same for decades. Why this Lib is more prominent is because he's is one the few who are doing this.

Maybe Mr Pyne is a weak link however the whole Labour chain is broken. Its makes you wonder who will return the knife in the back favour to Ms Gillard.

Benq, I can't see that Pyney is any weaker than lots of others.

I actually thought he did quite well on Q&A last week.

Benny's opening post was just a re-hash of his own bad dream the night b4... it was not a discussion piece :) he was not quite awake when his fingers drifted to they keyboard of his drug of choice.

Dear Benq,

I have to agree with you I started to
watch Lateline that evening but after
a while, I simply changed channels.
I couldn't stand the evasiveness and
the usual finger-pointing, while simply
brushing over their own Party's blunders.

As election time draws nearer, I'm getting
more and more disheartened at the available
choices. Politics is very limited in choices
at present!

That's correct Foxy. When points were made about Liberal policy in the interview/debate, Christopher Pyne retaliated with his well rehearsed rhetoric, slogans and generalised whining. He was an absolute embarrassment. At least Tony Bourke argued the topics in a mature manner.

The Liberal party needs politicians on TV who are capable of arguing the "issues" ....... merely mouthing slogans and rhetoric (a skill that Christopher Pyne has mastered) will be the Liberals undoing.

Ludwig, come on mate, you can't see "Pyney" as a weak link? Tell me, have you seen his woeful "performances" as Manager for Opposition Business? He's soooooo incredibly immature in that role, a "true" drama queen who chucks his verbal tantrums (the methodology being to consistently talk over and ignore the Speaker of the House as much as possible while making spurious points of order to disrupt answers ......... yes most politicians disrespect the Speaker to a certain degree, by Mr Pyne is a true "master drama queen" of the art). He's simply immature. And that's a damn shame. We need a STRONG Liberal opposition, NOT the current bunch of whingers who's main talent is mouthing rhetoric, slogans and personal attack. Labor will win the election because we have a very WEAK opposition who will focus on personal attack, slogans and rehtoric.

Australia needs better than that!

Has anyone here seen Christopher Pyne's "drama queen" antics in the House of Reps? It's agonising to watch.

Pyne is very much as our author says, but far from the only weak link.
I face 5 weeks of boredom and hard work.
Then a long day, polling, followed by a night and few days of counting that bring me great joy.
By the end of August conservatives will have 3 more years of crying wolf and that too is fun.
Abbott by years end must watch his back he is in the exit lane.

Benq
Pyne is certainly one of the Opposition's weakest links and a robust democracy requires a robust Opposition, not a parrotting slogan mannequin as you aptly describe. Not an original thought to be seen in the Libs or Labs at the moment.

Pyne is in a marginal electorate - we will know after August 21 whether he will retain his seat. I would not be at all surprised if he lost it given Julia's links with Adelaide and the changing demographic.

Question Time is like watching a bunch of rabbits trying to work their way out of a wet paper bag. Or a group of kids in a sandpit fighting over who gets to use the shiniest spade.

Foxy - Politics is very limited in choices at present!

I agree Foxy

The Liberals are a bit right of centre

And the socialists play this mee-too game where they pretend to have the same policies.

I can understand how this would be disheartening for anyone

If it comforts you, I am similarly disheartened

Disheartened that we do not have a party with strong policies and chainsaws prepared to deal with cutting back on the burgeoning ranks of pointless regulations, waste-of-space bureaucrats and profligate money wasters who are intent on paying their way into the history books with the tax payers scarce funds

And also disheartened at the way government squanders money on funding the usual losers who cannot run a business on free-market principles, where cashflow is recognized as the product of prudent business practices and not as alms from some arm of the state

Disheartened that the indolent see themselves entitled to handouts

Disheartened that the governments primary reward of personal innovation and excellence remains the right to be more heavily taxed.

I saw Lateline last night. Christopher Pyne resembled an annoying yapping dog. It's a bit of a toss-up as to who's less inspiring, between him and the Mad Monk.

Hopefully, both of them will feature prominently in the media over the next 5 weeks.

>> Has anyone here seen Christopher Pyne's
>> "drama queen" antics in the House of Reps?
>> It's agonising to watch.

Precisely what are ""drama queen" antics", and precisely why are they "agonising to watch"?

<< Ludwig, come on mate, you can't see "Pyney" as a weak link? >>

No benq. In fact the very concept of a weak link within the woefully weak LNP is something that I just can’t get my head around at all! ( :>|

He’s certainly no more of a weak link than Mad Monky!!

Stern,

"The Liberals are a bit right of centre".

I think they're way, way right of centre and even Malcolm Fraser agrees. Labor are closer to the centre than they should be.

"And the socialists play this mee-too game where they pretend to have the same policies."

I think you'll find that it's Abbott that's playing this game at the moment. All oppositions do.

You're also not the only one that's disheartened.

We need a Leader.

All we get these days is Administrators and Public Relations representatives in charge of political corporations that are fighting over market share.

Christopher Whine, like Barnaby Joyce, is "the gift that keeps on giving" to the ALP.

Love the fact Stern thinks we are socialists, bloke you are blind.
Got it wrong up this thread yes Pyne is every thing we said here but in reality he is a Liberal show piece.
He is no different than many in his lost tribe both Bishops, surely only their mums could love them?
The senator for the tobacco lobby or Iron bar whats his name.
Rabbott,watch enjoy as he desperately reads his every public word from pre written speech's like an unhappy puppet.
I too want to see very much more of these failures in the coming weeks.

Wobbles… disagree, and Malcolm Fraser is a spent force who loves the limelight, when he has his trousers on

Belly - “He is no different than many in his lost tribe

I too want to see very much more of these failures in the coming weeks.”

What concerns me and most other electors is the failures of the past 3 years

Garretts deaths and fires in the name of faulty insulation

Julia’s oversight of BER will be a burr in Gizzards side

Fiscal chaos and monetary incompetence

Ignored most of the recommendations of the hugely expensive Henry commission

only to Cherry pick and rape private superfunds (key investors in the mining industry) by excessive mining tax

Vacillation over not having a Pacific solution, call it Nauru or East Timor or anywhere else she tries to steamroller her inept bunging on.

The wasted tax payers money!

The lost opportunities!

More rubbish in the mold of past failures

Who are now biting one another in public

Hawkes and his apparent “lost years” and Keating, "the grim reaper" between them those two promised

1 billion trees planted
No child will live in poverty….
Tax cuts are law

Tohree famous lies frm the same factional-infighting "team" who brought us

Kevin ‘07

and are now bringing us

“Bungling Brutus ‘10”.

The problem with socialism is they spend our resources chasing quixotic windmills while in the real world the electorate goes to hell in a hand-cart

The point with liberal politics is – Liberals ignore the fanciful windmills of climate change and other bull-tish. Instead they focus on making the local environment an easier place for people who wish to achieve something with their lives

OK Stern, so far we've had 2 long posts from you and you've ignored the topic. The topic is "Christopher Pyne". So let's get back on topic. Tell us stern, what's you analysis of Christopher Pyne's performance over the past several years?

Quite a few people believe in an
unbridled commitment to individualism.
Which leaves no room for social equity,
compassion or the idea of an egalitarian
society. People in their view either sink
or swim. And if they sink, well that's too
bad. Because according to them welfare is
not good for business. These people are
usually pro big business, pro development,
pro nuclear weapons, pro the monarchy.

They are anti conservation, anti union, anti
multiculturalism, and anti government.
Christopher Pyne agrees with these views.
John Howard agrees with these views, Tony
Abbott does as well. These people are
usually leading business executives,
employer organisations, some farmers
organisations, a few conservative academics,
and anybody else who hasn't witnessed the
divide and fall of Thatcher's Britain.

Foxy I agree. Individualism is just another "ism" ........... no different from all the other "isms", marxism, capitalism, fascism, communism, etc etc etc.

"Individualism" is just another strict and rigid ideology that some would love to force upon society, just like all the other isms.

Just like religions, there's plenty of people who believe their "ism" is the one and only true ism, and that if everybody just agreed to it then the world would be just fine and dandy.

Which all goes to show............we haven't really progressed much at all "intellectually" since the stone age.

5 weeks what fun!every day we will see posts that could come from near any member of the opposition.
Trouble is only a conservative would like it.
It is not the strong conservative who are needed to elect them.
John Howard knew how to get swingers Abbott clearly does not.
Abbott, make no mistake had Labors head on a plate, he did not put it there Rudd did.
Do not look to Abbott to bring Julia down the same way it will not happen.
He will not have that much luck again, his has no skills to do it no plan that would do it.
And is in truth as much a weak link as Pyne in fact a carbon copy of him.
Labor with an in ceased majority is the result.

Benq - Tell us stern, what's you analysis of Christopher Pyne's performance over the past several years?

Oh thank you for asking me that question Benq, not that I am under any obligatin to answer it but thankyou anyway

Since Christopher Pyne is a liberal, he has obviously got more sense than anyone in the incumbent government.

As a liberal he will be supported by his parliamentary colleagues, rather than being stabbed in a factional inspired public execution.

He may seem a less than perfect character for parliamentary position but indeed, so was Margaret Thatcher considered in similar manner and she managed to pull through, unlike say the erudite Rudd who was so self assured he became arrogant and obnoxious.... in fact a similarly obnoxious personality to

Latham habitual bully – who lead labor to defeat
Keating egocentric fopp– who stabbed Hawke
Hawke - an alcoholic held together by his wife, who he abandoned and Hawke who stabbed Hayden in another eleventh hour faction coup
And of course the ever odious

Whitlam who took the country to the edge of disaster and was appropriately kicked out by the Governor General

It is good to reflect on the personality characteristics who people elected, be they liberal or socialist...

maybe a personality like Christopher Pyne needs nurturing,
but the disfigured personalities of labor, with their psychopathic egos, prepared to muscle or stab anyone who stands in front of them or even supports them, no nurturing will ever help.

Always good to remember that before we caste our votes

Hope that answers your question Benq.... doubtless you are not enamoured by my answer to your loaded question

but I always say it as I see it...

the democratic process is like that.... you do not necessarily get the answer you demand

and when you ask loaded questions... expect them to sometimes backfire.

Foxy “Quite a few people believe in an
unbridled commitment to individualism.
Which leaves no room for social equity,
compassion or the idea of an egalitarian
society.”

Let us consider those few words

Individualism – thats the thing we acquire because we all have different genes..... seems reasonable to me that such characteristics are inherent in our make up, we are, after all, not Ants living in a colony, with an exclusive responsibility to die to defend or feed the queen
Social Equality – sounds a bit like am ethereal concept, something and nothing

Lets see who ware the folk who are supposed to benefit form “social equity” – well its all those individuals, which collect to describe the “individualism” you spoke of before.

So “social Equality” is like this.. you achieve it by limiting the rights of the individuals who comprise the society on which “Social Equity” is applied....
A bit like –
we will all be equally free in prison,
so the socialists who support the fraud of “Social Equity” will imprison us to make us all equal...

Its a bit like levelling the hills to make an even playing field,

In economic terms we would spend a lot of energy simply carting the dirt which makes the hills and putting it into the valleys and end up with the same land mass at the end.

Better we forget that plan to create the bland and level plains and
leave the prettier undulating hills and varying topography as it is

instead use our energy to do something which advances humanity, rather than just rearranging it into neat and even rows.

The rest of your diatribe is just rant and a load of spleen venting generalisation about people you have, in the main never met. Just jingoistic nonsense and the sort of vomit inducing mantra of the faux-philosophy of collectivism, by any name.

That Benq agrees with you is no recommendation. Such acceptance is more an endorsement of it being complete twaddle, bereft of reasoning and facts.

Stern,

I'm sure Christopher Pyne will be gratified to know that his colleagues will support him...rather than stab him in the back. Afterall, that sort of thing doesn't happen in the Liberal Party, does it...just ask Malcolm Turnbull.

Poirot

Malcolm Turnbull was not stabbed in the back.

Malcolm Turnbull was challenged head on.

The factional infighting of Labor is not replicated in Liberal circles simply because the Liberals, unlike Labor, are not a bunch of competing factions with disperate policies, values and goals.

I Have to agree, Pyne is a pain in the arse, he really is.
He was too, when in Govt, pushing the religious barrow.

One thing that is seldom mentioned but is true, Tony Burke
has in fact been a pretty good Minister for Agriculture.
In many ways he's the opposite of Pyne, no drama queen
but a rational fellow, prepared to listen and IMHO underrated.

Dear Stern,

There's an interesting editorial in
"The Age," Saturday, July 17, 2010.

And I quote:

"The obligation to develop and proclaim a
positive program falls more strongly on
the Coalition, which under Mr Abbott has
tended to oppose reflexively whatever the
government proposes without feeling constrained
to offer better alternatives.

Australians know very little about what an
Abbott government would do, apart from providing
a ratbag of financial incentives to reduce
carbon emissions, and imposing an industrial-relations
regime eerily reminiscent of the Howard government's
deeply unpopular WorkChoices, though unsurprisingly
it won't have the name...

...the Coalition will do a grave disservice to
Australian democracy if they are content to spend
this election campaign concentrating on issues that
contain more fantasy than substance. Depressingly,
however, they have so far shown every sign that
this is what they are likely to do. Far more energy
has gone into reassuring voters that fleets of asylum
seekers will be turned around if they try to reach
these shores..." (rather than explaining that the
few thousand who arrive by boat each year are only
a tiny proportion of the total number of immigrants,
and an even smaller proportion of the global number
of displaced persons).

The article also tells us that, "Australia's net
government debt, which is expected to peak at 6 percent
of gross domestic product in the next financial year,
is less than a tenth of the average debt of the major
advanced economies. Australia does not have crushing
public debt, and in the next six weeks Australia's
politicians should concentrate on telling voters what
they can do, not what they won't do!"

Perhaps as far as you're concerned you prefer
fantasy to substance, as the latter comes under
the heading of "ranting."

You're certainly entitled to your
opinions (but not your facts).

Foxy “"The obligation to develop and proclaim a
positive program falls more strongly on
the Coalition, which under Mr Abbott has
tended to oppose reflexively whatever the
government proposes without feeling constrained
to offer better alternatives.”

Yes well that is always the challenge for Liberals. When the Liberals have implemented what has been seen to work, successfully, it seems pointless to develop new ways.

Conversely, the socialists screw things up so badly they know they could never afford to go to the electorate with the same bunch of failed policies as they presented last time

Hence, as one politician observed

"Socialists have always spent much of their time seeking new titles for their beliefs, because the old versions so quickly become outdated and discredited."

Trust me, an abbott government will do pretty much what a Howard government did.

Which will prove to be a significantly better government than the Rudd, now Gizzards bunch of shambling problem creators, known for the enormity of disasters following on from their

Death and fire producing insulation program
Waste of taxes on over-prices school halls.
Dud computer handouts
Failed grocery watch
Failed fuel watch
Failed East-Timor solution

In short

Irresponsible Profligacy
Ministerial Incompetence
An absolute Failure to deliver or perform
Doubtless, Ms Gizzards will have a nice new shiny bundle of policies to present to the electorate....

Simply because she could never, ever expect to remain in office with the ones of which she has been a principle accessory of for the past 3 years

Stern, I asked you for your analysis of Christopher Pyne's performance over the past few years.

That was a straightforward, unambiguous question. It was not a "loaded" question, as you falsely imply. The simple, easy question gave you the opportunity to tell us about the achievements, or otherwise, of Christopher Pyne over the past few years.

Your response showed you know nothing about Christopher Pyne. You couldn't even state ONE achievement or ONE failure. Instead you chose to go the way of abuse, party political rhetoric, slogans and generalised political dogma and political belief. That's what often happens when you hit the righties with a basic, clear enquiry ...... what you get back is the usual inflexible dogma and rhetoric. Just look at the way Tony Abbott conducts himself; he's a liability for the Liberal Party. You really need someone better to be in charge of your party Stern...... like Wilson Tuckey maybe? Ha ha!

The latest polling shows Labor to be well ahead. The public got it right at the last election, they've got it right in the current polls, and they'll get it right at the upcoming election with a Labor victory.

They know, that without Labor at the helm, we'd be deep in the middle of a debilitating recession at this very moment.

Dear Stern,

What have the Liberals implemented that has worked
so successfully? They lost the last election,
and their leader got kicked out of his electorate.
The current front bench is full of the same old
Howard clones with the same old
rhetoric that lost them the last election and as the
polls indicate they are lagging behind. They need to
lift their game - and give the voters substance
not the same old rhetoric!

It does the nation no service that we have such a weak and immature opposition.

Democracy works best when we have a strong, effective opposition.

Sorry benq but any answer that involves truth is near impossible for stern to answer.
Ever see the Fonz try to say sorry? bit like that.
Stern comes fourth at such times as this not to debate but to debunk, ALP.
Its is wasteful and achieves zero but if he/she is having fun in the mud box leave them.
Our fun comes as we watch increasing rash statements as fear over comes some conservatives just ahead of reality.
Election night? GGGGreeeat!

BENQ, You are so right he is simply painful. There really must be a cupboard they can hide him in, or maybe their scared he'll come out of it.
As for all the labor faction complainers, take a good look at the NSW liberals if you want a prime example of how factions destroy you. NSW liberals should have won government two elections ago. Every time come mid term they are a sure winner then just as the election comes they shoot themselves in the foot. Let's hope they don't stuff it this time things are beyond desperate in NSW.
As for Turnbull, you can call it head on but it was a solid public humiliation over a couple of weeks with leaks everywhere in the liberal machine. At least Rudd got it quick and clinical, no weeks of white anting. The surprise though was after non stop complaining about the bloke you all cried foul for him, seems you all whinge like your man Pyne.

Wasn't Pyne behind the "Big Swinging Dicks" campaign to toss out Julie Bishop a while back?

To suggest that the Libs aren't also ruled by factions is to ignore the "Wets" and "Drys", the "Small-L" Liberals and those other internal pressure groups that run the show behind the scenes.

I remember when a bunch of "wets" actually left the party to form the Democrats.