It only took a week for JG to mis use the air force jet for personal and party purposes.

If this is how she starts, it looks very much like Kevin 747 lite.

MEH.

I'm no fan, but successive gubbermints have been doing it. She ain't the first, and neither was Rudd, and she won't be the last. Where were you when Howard did it?.

Oh Noes. The Prime Minister used the government jet on government business.

Off with her head!

Yes people, The female that I thought would have the..........now has made the number one of three which all should have...........when it comes to being a leader.

Fly like the rest of us do. Business class at least. The days of the upper mighty royalty has slid off the plate, that's if your real in becoming a leader of substance in the world of balance and equal in the finite squabbles within the ranks of the people and finite places which you have the luxury of holding right now.

That's one mistake, I suggest you don't use your other 2 chances.
While it's tempting in a position of power, one must ponder your own motives in the mistake you have just made in your first fortnight of rule. If you don't feel the people and their pain( the poor snow men ), your a shot duck in anyone's book. In this day and age the luxury of the advancement and concur of ruling is no longer a stay in anyone's economics and understandings in a world of no more kings and queens.

Then again, What do I know. get out your code book.

When ten rats are in a box, the overcrowding can only spell a humble ruling within the codes and stages which the cheques and balances must be made, and if I'm not mistaken, this is the 21st century is it not.

TT

Ummmm TT, could you please repeat that in English?

Benny.. ru CJ morgans little bro or Mini him ?

It's not Gillard using a RAAF jet that's a problem..hey..I've been flown FREEE in a VIP Dakota :) well fitted out toooo..for a relic.

THE REAL problem is the likes of Anna Blight_on_Qld..appointing her husband to a top 'Climate' related job. Go anna..the forces of nepotism, cronyism and *screw you, I've got da power now* are not dead yet...

CJ

A labor party fund raiser is government business?

That's a little rich.

Shadow Minister you know do you not? you are pathetic.
You just have to be a SM no one else could throw so much mud based on so little.
It could start the longest thread in OLO history trying to unmask those who in fact are.
My guess Julie Bishop.
This you can be sure of an election will not be won in this country b y mud , lies, or silliness.
Now just try this, sit quietly for a second, look at your leaders polling, no keep your eyes of his back plenty of others are doing that.
Those who dislike him out numbered Kevin even at the end.
Maybe its the negative rubbish like this that made it so.
A policy of using such as this is an insult to Australian voters soon too soon for your mob you will see it hurt more than helped you.

AGiR - screw you, I've got da power now

Yes reminds me of that little ditti, sung to the tune of “le international” (aka the lefties anthem)
Which starts
‘The working class can kiss my a$$
I’ve got the foreman’s job at last”

It seems to me the capacity for Ms Gizzard to simultaneously deal with the plight of working families and squander money on BER whilst swanning around in a RAAF aeroplane must be one of those multi-tasking female things.

Mr Belly regarding - This you can be sure of an election will not be won in this country b y mud , lies, or silliness.

But that is how Mr Rudd managed to sneak into power, certainly the lies and the silliness

SM,

Now you're being Absolutely ridiculous.
Where were you when Howard refused to live in Canberra and cost the Australian tax payer $millions per year extra.

You are simply politically campaigning! Hypercritical bottom of the barrel stuff

It was probably a case of ignorance rather than intentional misuse - no new PM whether ALP or Coalition is going to take liberties like that so new into the job.

Do we know what the regulations are in relation to the use of the PM's jet?

You would be surprised at how much pollies are not aware of in regard to the guidelines to entitlements - often having to be told ever so politiely.

Most of the time it is a misunderstanding and monies repaid. It happens on both sides of politics and inbetween.

I suspect if JG was found to have inadvertently done the wrong thing she apologise and know better in future.

This is very different to Howard using taxpayers money to communte from Sydney to Canberra to do his job while at the same time telling the long term unemployed early in his PMship that they may have to move for work. I was always amazed that the Australian population let him get away with that, probably due to a misplaced hatred of all things 'Canberra'. Imagine if Bush or Obama declared they were not going to reside in the White House.

pelican,

Oh don't worry, I hated having the Rodent at Kirribilli. I was foaming at the mouth over that one.

I do believe though that the Howard Haters were onto the rodent over stuff like this all the time, but there is always some excuse when one of their own is involved.

Belly thinks Julie Bishop is Shadow Minister, but we all know this cannot be correct because Julie is unable to write her own stuff.

But maybe 'think than move' is really Senator Barnaby Rubble?

I couldn't follow the train of thought in that last post at all, even with my Rubble Code Book it was hard.

As I recall, the govvie jet flies hither and thither during election campaigns, carting whoever is the PM to all sorts of fundraising events and pure political campaigning.

Or does it sit on the tarmac for the four-six weeks of most campaigns?

As for her 'being Left', the rest of Sterns ditty covers that quite well:

"not out of work or on the dole, you can shove the red flag up yer 'ole".

Ah yes, the majesty of (Altona) working class poetry.

I would assume that a government owned jet
would be at the disposal of any PM to use
whenever they needed to do so. I'm sure
that previous PMs used government owned jets
whenever they needed to travel anywhere.
For security reasons, if nothing else.
What would we prefer they do instead - ride a
bicycle?

As for the opposition attacking the PM over this
matter... well what else have they got to do?
After all she is meeting with mining executives to
solve the mining tax issues, she is getting on with
the business of running the country ,,, and we're
nearing an election when opposition parties will grab
at straws when they have nothing better to offer.

Ah Foxy... "What would we prefer they do instead - ride a
bicycle?"... is getting too close to Tony Abbott for my liking.

But what an example if they did.... no more ComCar.... unless they had tandems, and what savings!

Ultralights for the longhauls home to Perth from Canberra even, after all it's quite a distance, and we should not be too mean.

The arguments I hear is that it is a small issue (only a $100k or so) of misuse of government property, thus only a little corrupt,

or:

Every one does it, therefore it is OK.

No one has tried to convince me that the jet is there for JG's private and party purposes. The rules are very clear on this. Julia broke them and got caught.

Considering she used billions of BER money to pork barrel "consultant" and "manager" mates, this is not unexpected. It is, however, the first time she has stupid enough not to have fabricated even the flimsiest excuse.

Belly ache, I was shadow minister before the last election if you bothered to check. It has not escaped me how you leap to the defense of your precious party irrespective of how indefensible the position.

The minister for Penrith was expelled and faces charges for comparatively pennies. Being a little corrupt is like being a little pregnant.

Quite so SM.

Now, what about all those NSCP applications from school principals that Howard and Bishop turned a blind eye to even when DEETYA was told they were total fabrications, yet still $165m of ATO funds went out to buy off the ACL and its proselytising chums.... do you support Crean and Gillard inspecting them?

Of course, Gillard also knew they were fabrications when she ran DEEWR, the follow-on organisation, and still allowed the fraud to continue totally unchecked.

Will Crean do what he should, and open an investigation into the false declarations sworn by school principals all around Australia?

Probably not, that would require honesty, integrity and a sense of justice, never mind a sense of concern for wasting ATO funds.

Blue cross, if you reckon Julie is bad, what do you think of Swan?

It's taken him two years to learn to read what his department has given him to regurgitate to the media, without sounding like a half wit. Yes, I know, there's a good reason for that.

It would be nice to think he had at last gained some understanding of the subject, but it is hard to believe that, isn't it.

I suppose it's nice for Julia to know that no body would ever think of replacing her, with her deputy.

Hasbeen... I had the misfortune to do some ALP FDE work with Swan years ago. A very good manager of the Qld ALP, building on the Murphy reforms and very effective in taking it from a band of clapped out no-hopers, suffering from years of Joh and the Nats in power, but I think he has exceeded his abilities as treasurer.

At least, he does not sound the least bit credible to me, even repeating his lines from Treasury.

I agree that Gillard would not be threatened by him, but might have been by Tanner.

I'm not sure that JG is 'bad', just driven by ambition but lacking on any ideological purpose, beyond mere power.

Maybe keeping her head down and obeying Rudd without apparently questioning anything has allowed her to be the PM now, but I suspect what we see, what we saw, is what we will continue to get into the future.

I doubt she will reverse Macklin's total absorption of Howard policies,or end the NSCP, or design a 'sustainable' population policy that differs much from the current projections, or deliver 'the workers' any relief in the building industry, or create an 'education revolution, or get hospitals working better, or, or, or.

Life will amble on, very much as Rudd set it, apart from an end to the media appearances outside a church.

Dear TBC,

Bicycles are popular in Europe.

But, as you point out - the distances
here in Oz may just be too great for
most pollies to handle on peddle power.

How about hot air balloons for all pollies
instead?

Pollies provide enough hot air in
Question Time. And, if they want to speed
up the transport - they can always consume
large plates of lentils (baked beans),
and off they go!

Benq.

Basically it means governments tend to pay more attention to their life-stiles while in power than addressing the countries problems, "hence the snouts in trough" Even thou my vote goes to the greens, all are in the line of fire when it comes to tax payers money, and when it comes to prime-minster Gillard, in my book that's one point of three I give as far as being one of the people persons Labor used to represent in the past.

I just think they would get more popularity ( just like BOB HAWK did with having a drink at the local) in getting closer to the ordinary fellow person in the work-place.

You know the media! the rattle-snakes in the news rooms have ready begun to hiss and sharpen their fangs.

Again! The people are getting sick of the pigs rolling around smiling while bathing in our money.

TTM

Ah yes ...

Here's another ditty that may
put things into perspective, it's by Dennis Pryor,
"Political Pryorities." :

Dedicated to Canberra

" Where bureaucrats parasytical
And parties political
And Ministers hypocritical
Steal the money of the nation
Through what they call taxation."

And of course let's not forget "Party Funds."
As Pryor tells us, "A form of bribery whereby
business enterprises are encouraged to make
contributions in the hope of ensuring that the
next government will turn a sympathetic and, if
necessary, blind eye to their activities."

Mining, anyone?

Thanks TTM.

Shadow Minister, you're saying that Gillard is corrupt because she used the plane in the way she did.

SOOOOOOOOOOO, launch a legal action against her!

But you won't, of course. Why? Because everyone here knows your claims are politically motivated, and that the morality/legality of Gillard's plane use doesn't interest you in the least. What interests you is the chance to claim political points. A chance to show you're **IMPORTANT**! You are utterly disingenuous with this topic, you know it, I know it and just about everyone reading this topic knows it.

But it's good for a laugh!

Shadow you will be a shadow after this election too.
The last Penrith seat holder was not a minister,,,you use terms children use in school yards.
Read my thread NSW ALP give me the location of your in depth look at the wrongs of your mob in your opinion.
Your bleating about my bias is laughable.
Still think its Julie or maybe Minchin? some thing about the feeble avoidance of reality looks much the same.

JG has her travel allowance to fly commercial even for party purposes at the cost of a few 000 including her chauffeur service.

But the private jet with its own pilot, co pilot etc costs in the region of $100k.

As in the words of George Orwell "All people are equal, but some are more equal than others"

Benq and Belly,

By the level of your hissy fit I guess I struck a nerve. The corruption at the heart of labor is something to be ashamed of.

benq: << You are utterly disingenuous with this topic, you know it, I know it and just about everyone reading this topic knows it. >>

I know it too :)

It's as plain as BOAZy thread about Muslims.

BUT, you lot of rusted on Green and Labor supporters would have been outraged if the Lying Rodent did the same.

Come on, you know it's true!

JG has been PM for five minutes - she will learn what she can and can't get away with as far as public outrage metre is concerned.

Howard had the same sort of negative publicity about supposed luxury upgrades to the jet, some of it unfairly put down to him.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s1978350.htm

Fact is Oppositions will always scrutinse personal spending by any PM even if it is only about creating a bit of smoke.

And as I said SM, if Gillard is "corrupt", then launch a legal action against her. But you're disingenuous with your claim, and you won't sue her. Why? Because you know she's done NOTHING illegal, just like Mr Howard did nothing illegal with his rorts and perks.

But you're good for a laugh SM.

SM confirmation yet again you slant comments.
Julia is our country's leader security alone says she should not fly in small plans or drive long distances.
Yes Holy we would and did complain but this is a sad call on SM.
JG has been flat out and time is another reason she just used her transport.

However, Benq, SM's Thread gave yourself and others the opportunity to give opinions on the subject and interact with one another. Not a negative, rather a positive, dont you think?

Oh..and my opinion regarding PMs and/or public servants working on the best salaries through most of their adult lives, awaiting their long service leave, superannuation and enjoying the perks in the process, well now, this is just one of the actual reasons Taxpayers whinge and whine about the state of our economy; particularly many of us who earn under the $45,000K mark.

For those higher income earners working in the public service: do not dare moan and groan about paying for people on welfare/C.Link payments, many of whom are lower income employees [ie the -$40,000K wage earners], working in private enterprise where the knocks are hard, many are made redundant, through no fault of their own, many do not have the luxury of Referees, and many are unable to study for various legitimate reasons, whether it be medical, family, caring roles, the list endless.

No, politicians should not be enjoying priviledges paid by hard working taxpayers. Regular audits should be conducted on all politicians and public servants to ensure that rorting in any way, does not exist.

Some SES and Politicians do not fly Business Class, preferring to travel Economy and enforcing their staff to fly Economy also. However, the majority do choose to fly Business or First Class on a regular basis, costing Taxpayers a great deal of money over the years.

As for politicians? You were merely reminding Taxpayers of where our taxes are going Shadow Minister: up in a puff of smoke.

Belly ache,

Confirmation that you are so blinkered that you cannot see that JG stuffed up here. I notice that she quickly cancelled her next scheduled junket.

PS are your spelling and grammar indicative of poor education as a requirement for unwavering, blinkered belief in labor?

Ah Shadow Minister you have me.
Yes my education is dreadful, spelling? horrible!
Grammar? haven't got a idea makes a good pie.
So you pinned me to the ropes no way I can compete with you there.
However it seems I have got under your skin, got you to circle the question and launch into another subject, kill the messenger.
You well know, we all we know every leader has always used the RAAF.
I See bias and wish to throw any mud true false any thing, at my side.
In the University of life I have learned much including that your biases blind you, your education is wasted and your self assurance miss placed.
Consider this.
Is it not true the standard issue conservative fear and loathing tactic you publish here only works with welded on Liberals?
That while such as you giggle at me you are ignoring the fact your mob is about to be defeated again?
You insult Turnbull for being a true Liberal?
How many swinging voters would buy the silliness you use in this thread?
After all Shadow minister you do not your self do you?
Spelling awful but understanding? compared with you out standing.

Had a think about this Shadow Minister while I still TRULY believe every word I wrote I could have done better.
We Will never agree you and I your mind is locked, mine can still produce threads like NSW ALP still condemn Crean Latham, and say I do not trust JG to not build her own Church within my party.
Every day I grow, learn , challenge My views and ideas.
I Meet CEO,s they see no lack of education.
My School was far different than yours.
Yet apart from your highlighted points mine may have been more extensive.
You surely know this thread is rubbish?
Did you squeal at the costs of Howard's travel, even post Parliament?
The election is over like a large truck bogged on an out back sand hill you and your side are intent on? worse than mud slinging, your voters expect much more than admitting defeat so close to an election.

SM

Instead of appearing like a bully, I suggest that you go back and read Belly's early posts on OLO. You will observe that Belly has made huge improvements in self expression. All of which indicates a sharp and thoughtful mind.

For all of your further education SM, you display a lack of lateral thinking with regard to politics, being unable to see the obvious (to everyone else) flaws of Abbott. Nor can you understand that Gillard is having to clean up the many mistakes of Rudd - in very little time given that she must call an election soon in order to confirm her leadership. Unlike Rudd and Abbott, Gillard can take advice from others, work in a collaborative method and is a very quick study, all of which means she will engage the wealth of talent in her party in a consultative method. The same cannot be said of Abbott (the unexpected announcement of his Parental Leave plan and other promises he has made without consulting his party - not unlike Rudd).

And yes, she will be elected as PM at the forthcoming election. Read it and weep.

Yes, no need to get nasty SM. It's not Belly's fault that you're backing a loser - Gillard will call a Federal election next month which the ALP will win, albeit with a reduced majority. The Greens will pick up another Senator or two and maybe a lower house seat or two, while the Opposition under Abbott may pick up a seat or two but not enough to win government.

No doubt the Opposition and its useful idiots will mount a typically negative slur campaign which will backfire on them, after which they'll dump the odious Abbott in favour of another loser. Enjoy!

Belly,

I apologise for over reacting. However, in your posts you have shown little restraint from having a personal dig.

As for your predictions, your track record is not stellar.

As for my personal preferences, I am a conservative who would not pick Abbott as my first choice. I preferred Turnbull, and support a carbon tax along the lines that Gillard is proposing (not the cumbersome costly ETS) which you could have picked up if you had read my previous posts.

However, MT was trying to show that the voters should vote liberal because the Liberals were better, which in the face of a consistent negative campaign by Rudd and JG was ineffective.

Abbott ousted Turnbull, and set about an effective negative campaign convincing the voters that they should not vote for Labor. The policy failures and Rudd's management style were easy targets.

The mining tax issue is not completely over, as there are definite rumblings coming from the small miners of coal and iron ore that were not party to the negotiations and who are more badly effected. As the small miners cannot get capital at the low rates that the big 3 can, and often pay more than 12%, this significantly reduces their ability to compete. The truce with the big 3 at least has silenced the worst of the criticism.

The next is the asylum seekers issue which Abbott has used very effectively as a wedge. The working class are generally concerned about the boats, but the more liberal (in the true sense of the word) Labor supporters prefer a more open policy.

JG is under pressure to address the issue, but is in a lose lose situation. Keeping things as they are will lose voters to the liberals especially in marginal seats, tightening policy will lose them to the greens, but the back-flip will favour the liberals.

The only true way to win on this issue is to keep it out of the public eye, which exactly what TA is preventing.

No offense taken Shadow Minister, you are quite right I do play verbal tennis, and can not escape my lack of formal education.
I am a warrior type but only counter punching never King Hitting.
Want to challenge the view I got it wrong more than right.
Yes never saw Julia coming, but am on record saying she will govern very well.
Also that I will never trust her fully.
I again say, hold me to it an increased majority for my mob.
And I did hide my head in the last few months of Rudd, still like the bloke, but apparently more than he liked himself.
Labors impending victory is helped by work choices, it still hurts to see those who do not understand its impacts on low income earners.
Of special help to the ALP the fact Abbott too is a warrior but has no coordination between his mouth and brain.
That clearly was the case long before he rolled Turnbull.
I hope I see both sides of issues ,surely my constant harping about MY PARTY in NSW its lost nature its betrayal of its reason to exist, its forgetting its past , gives me some credit.
No lower house CJ Morgan, but that extra senate seat?
Just maybe.
Tomorrow a new policy on boat people, canny and a real surprise will give JG a further lift in polling and take another plank out of the bottom of Abbott's boat.