Since there is a new broom in Labor, there is the chance to rid themselves of other high profile incompetents.

My first candidate for the rope is Stephen "big brother" Conroy,
Next is Peter "shocking insulation" Garrett,
Wayne "Miners pay 17% tax" Swan,

I would suggest Julia "BER cash binge" Gillard, but apparently she is less incompetent than the others, and unlikely to cut her own throat.

I welcome any further suggestions for Julia's hatchet men.

Good on you Shadow Minister, I was going to start a thread but you have done it for me.
Along with confirmation Labor will be returned with an in ceased majority yesterday asked this question.
How long before Abbott is dumped?
He fits the bill to answer your question who is next.
Less popular than Rudd and our lady Prime Minister surely he will not lead into this election?
Will it be this weekend or the next.
The headline is written and waiting.
Who will replace him? iron bar Tucky has the form but not the followers.
Watch this space be watchful Tony rumbling will commence once it is clear you are no match for Julia.

Hey folks have ya heard the latest news?

Tony Abbott has just been dumped as Liberal leader and replaced by someone more competent............ Wilson Tuckey!

The whole party . The honeymoon will be over soon. To pull the team apart NOW is to have lost sight of the big game. Play it if you must, but it's a losers game.

There is apparently a perception in the Labor camp and the Media, that lack of action on "Climate Change" contributed to Dudds fall and Gillards ascencion.

Benq and Hanrahan.. do you believe this to be true?

also.. do you see any echo's of "Cheney/Haliburton" type corruption in the "Strong/CCX" and Gore/ccx type corruption/conflict of interest ?

You could add to that list Bob Carr who is 'curiously' now the CEO of a large Carbon Trading company ENVEX..

Do you think the Labor party has a financial interest in a TRADING scheme ?

According to Boaz (Algoreisrich) Labor's interest in climate, exists only because they'll get rich as a result.

Umm Boaz, it's lucky you and Jesus vote Liberal in order to keep Australia on track. Thanks.

Boazy just a thought, you have never had a head ache have you?
benq original idea that,I thought iron bar would get it, hang on same bloke.
And the other poster falling? tell you what the ALP increased majority will answer you.
Rudd a great leader lost his way, convinced only he and his staff, not elected knew he went as he governed, in the interests of his party.
Abbott will not last much longer, remember he is/was and will continue to be more unpopular than both past and present ALP PMs.

Yester day at the Liberals love in stood Tony Abbott.
Arms waving like a grounded Albatross trying to fly he delivered yet another speech.
It, did you see his eyes?,did him more harm than good, you got the feeling even Tony knew it was not true.
His eyes? our Tony's eyes said it all, he knows without doubt who may, who will be next.
As we let media, showmanship and self interest drive the polls we will see more days like last week.
Abbott the Rabbott is siting in front of the medias Ute, spotlight on his every move.
Behind him but only just, sits a team concerned about 3 more years in opposition, within an already split and unhappy team more than one plot is boiling away.
Better for us? my post history is full of demands conservatives get back on track, stop the slip to the right.
It is not yet time, the next leader, maybe within month will try to unite water and fire within the party but the one after, in maybe another year?
Who will lead after Abbott?

I love the way ALGIR continues to throw out the old communist conspiracy with the ETS when it was the Lib/Nationals that first raised it as policy under Howard. Not only does ALGIR continue to throw out baited one-liners but has not yet followed it up with a direct opinion or detailed explanation.

There is no doubt there is danger of an ETS becoming a different way to shuffle money around but it has nothing to do with left conspiracies.

Yes indeed Belly. Abbott is running scared if the plethora of extreme vocabulary is anything to go by eg. continual references to 'execution' and 'betrayals'.

It is a bit rich given the Libs knocked over Turnbull for similar reasons - an arrogant and autocratic leadership style as well as divisions about ETS policy.

Not sure who would replace Abbott if there was a spill, there is not much to recommend many of the contenders.

Abbott's failure is in his lack of transparency on Liberal policies although more information is trickling through. He will lose ground if he continues to be OTT about the leadership change at the expense of informing the public about Coalition policies and what they stand for on the big issues like 'big' Australia, infrastructure, asylum seekers, the environment, tax reform and health reform.

Politicians of all colours often underestimate their electorate but eventually it does cost.

Gillard needs to set an election date sooner rather than later so the leadership issue is settled once and for all.

A good larf all-round if Wilson Tuckey took over as leader, with Nick Minchin as deputy, but sadly that comedy duo will not make the grade.

There is little talent on display in Parliament, whichever side we look at, but should Turnbull get another run, once Abbott has lost the election, and the Libs undertake a Spring clean, moving all the ex Howardites to the backbench, or out into the real world to earn a living for a change?

Turnbull could manage to lead a more 'liberal' Liberal Party.

I'd have thought the surge for Gillard might show Abbott and Goons that the voters are not actually searching for another Genghis Howard character, and they were fed up with the ever-evangelising Rudd.

I find Gillard to be quite a shallow politician, with no clear ambition for ideas beyond 'being PM'. She may yet prove to be a better bet than Rudd though, who was a terrible choice for pre-selection, never mind as PM.

What we really need, in the West as well as here in Australia, is a total review of what we believe government and democracy really is for.

A 'political revolution', with more content than Gillar'd 'education' one. A move to 'sustainable politics' that engages individuals in understanding their community responsibilities to each other.

No, not a 'communist' revolution at all... but a 'thinking' revolution that seeks solutions to our never-ending problems, rather than a path to a 'fixed solution' that ushers in a non-existent 'paradise'.

Just constant hard work to overcome the evolving problems we all help to create, either actively by engaging for our own ends or passively by withdrawing for our own ends... as we all do in various areas of life.

Pondering who is to be next for the knife is a rather silly past time, as the man said, 'in the long run, we're all dead', and in the short run, we and our children may be sniggered if our politics does not change for the better... that is the real issue, will Gillard bring any change for the better?

Adam Morton in "The Age," Saturday, June 26, 2010,
tells us that, "Politicians must pick their
battles wisely, but even more can rest on those
they ditch..."

Morton sums up the effects of Copenhagen:

"The failure of the summit was not Rudd's fault...
Rudd worked trelessly at getting a deal, first
with the Danes and then as part of a negotiating
group of 26 countries that worked through the
night in the meeting's dying hours...
When Rudd fronted the media, he put a positive spin
on what had been achieved..."

"This was really hard, really, really hard, and will
remain that way for the period ahead. But can I say
this - any action at home or abroad on climate
change is a battle because you're dealing with a
whole series of interest groups, some of whom don't
want to act. And as a result you've got to push
your way through."

However, as Morton confirms, "ultimately Rudd didn't
listen to his own advice. Instead he fell into line
with a political interest group at that stage yet
to significantly rear its head in the climate change
debate - the powerful NSW Labor Right led by Senator
Mark Arbib, backed by Wayne Swan and Julia Gillard."

"Despite a personal belief that action on climate
change was necessary. Rudd agreed to delay the
emissions trading scheme until 2013 to help balance
the budget and avoid a stoush with Tony Abbott, who
was claiming the scheme was "a great big tax on
everything (sic)."

What is interesting is that as Morton confirms,
"had Malcolm Turnbull secured one more vote, perhaps
from absent moderate MP Fran Bailey, it is likely
the scheme would have passed and the government and
opposition would have emerged from Copenhagen united
on climate change."

Politicians have
become synonymous in many people's minds with
manipulation, scheming, and grasping ambition.
The public's trust in politicians has been sorely
tested and eroded. What kind of cloth is Julia
Gillard cut from? Her image appears to have
become more polished over the years, but is
she genuine?

We'll find out soon enough.

Is she "genuine".

Personally I think not.

Politics is about compromises and alliances. It's not about truth and being genuine. If it was then we'd have a parliament 100% full of independents, with each of them telling us their "genuine" version of the truth ...... that's unworkable of course as our system is based on majority rule.

The most honest of honest politicians STILL lie, compromise their ideals, slant the "real" truth, are often utterly disingenuous. Why? Because that's how majority rule works......... you MUST conform to, or create, a majority.

Politics by it's very nature is disingenuous.

Dear benq,

I can see why you would think that
"she's" not genuine. She's never been
"one of the boys." (sorry couldn't resist).

Of course she's going to have to deal with
battling "idiotic" questions about
her appearance and womb, and carefully
calibrating how she projects power and
aggression.

The concept of being a "backstabbing
bitch" doesn't affect men in the same
manner. As a journalist said,
"For a man to backstab, it's a game men
are meant to play in politics because politics
was always seen as a man's game. For a woman
to do that it's seen as sly and underhanded..."

However, I personally suspect that Julia
Gillard may just be more focused on what the
job requires of her, and far more aware of
the Australian public and its needs.

Tony Abbott and Co - are now in serious trouble.

Foxy said;
>the government and
opposition would have emerged from Copenhagen united
on climate change."

To what point ?
So the Australian Govt & opposition agreed.
So what no one else would take notice of that, China will still keep
building their two coal fired power stations a month, carbon credit
costs will still be loaded onto our exports and the local consumer of
electricity and local products including food.
Remember, food production is about 80% + fossil fuel energy cost.

What effect will all that have on CO2 ?
1% of nothing !
There is absolutely no point in us going out on a limb, just to give
the financial manipulators a leg up at our expense.
The fraud in the European ETS is an example of what is in store for us.
Let the Europeans prove up their system first.
It has been a fraud risk so far.

Psst, want to buy some Euro ETS derivative credits ?
Good price only Euro 2 !

Be sure of three things.
Abbott's is the next head to roll
Julia will govern very well and be much loved.
and in time she will fall to the same sword that got Rudd
The coming second term of ALP government will bring true reform but after the NSW Landslide within a volcanic eruption after a flood that will wipe out the NSW ALP for a time the party will need its foot soldiers more than never Julia gives little value, believe me, to trade unions in her current life, she changes often.

I think Belly has it at last, "Julia gives little value, believe me, to trade unions in her current life, she changes often".. Queen Julia is a shallow political person, with no ideals she believes in beyond herself.

I think Comrade Belly has more going for him in that department, at least he genuinely believes in the AWU and all it's bad works.

Queen Julia believes in nothing.

Fancy putting a Roman Catholic in charge of 'sustainable population'!

Doomed to failure.

Still, it's good to be rid-of-Rudd.

Peter Coleman wrote in the Preface
to, "The Costello Memoirs,"

"Whatever they may say, most of them
(politicians) do not go into Parliament
to bring about particular reforms;
they go in because they find the life
is irresistible. They want to be in it
all their lives. They enjoy its exhilarating
highs and take its miserable (and tedious)
lows in their stride. They face long
years in the wilderness with equanimity. They
take for granted the slander of fools. They also
believe that the voters will get it right in the
end. Their day will come. They are politicians in
the way others are poets. They can't help themselves..."

I don't believe that Kevin Rudd was like that.
I believe that he wanted to make a difference.
I also believe that the voters will get it right
in the end.

Foxy
I think many politicians begin well but power and career aspirations can be a corrupting influence as well as a strong motivator to do good. Include the pressure of Party politics and you have a volatile mix and goes to support the call for a stronger regime of checks and balances.

Working in parliament is addictive and often participants - staffers and politicians alike - become too far removed from the goal and the real world. The pull becomes feeding the addiction of career aspiration, power and ensuring participation in the 'game'. It is a strong character that can resist the 'self' and keep their eye on the ball.

Some politicians like Bob Brown do this better than others and have managed to retain their decency and passion for a fairness (as tired that phrase is).

The Blue Cross,

I genuinely want to know - what do you believe in? What pleases you?

I don't ask this in any attempt to trap you or to launch an attack. I'm genuinely interested.

In an earlier thread, I accused you of having a dim view of humanity and our world because you always seem to be very negative about everything. It certainly seems that your threads are consistently tinged with negativity and loathing, but I'd like to apologise for that cruel accusation and re-frame it positively.

You are clearly disenchanted with both sides of our political system, and with both leaders. What would you consider to be a positive outcome at the next election? Pie-in-the-sky stuff is more than welcome as a response. I find you to be a very complex character and suspect that your apparent negativity is actually a symptom of some passionate thoughts and ideals. I'd like to get some idea of what those ideals are, if you are happy to share.

I have locked verbal horns with The Blue Cross a few times.
Let me give you my views of who he is.
Like myself a unionist.
Much as I was in my youth from the left, both in poltics and far left of reality.
These folk are unable to understand time waits for no man, we have moved on a great deal from the lights on the hill,not forgotten,for me not forgiven, those dark hungry days.
My Dad a man who turned his shirt white with salt, hard enough to stand partly up its self at work, went hungry so his kids could eat.
He was union/Labor forever.
But the dream of communism once followed was is and always will be a nigh mare,it made slaves of workers and look at the leader of that slave nation north Korea he is just one who miss used workers.
Socialism, what a great concept, communism and even Nazi,ism blackened its name.
But we do too, right now TBC we practice it, we let people who never want to help them selves have a free ride,on our backs,then walk in to election booths and vote conservative.
The Blue Cross is best at throwing stones at a world he is out of step with.
Me? two hours already sending e mail news letters to members in 3 different industry's the union I serve is growing its member not my comrades but my mates, I have no comrades that makes me feel good.

I however can not hide from TBC coments I agree with.
Please understand Julia will win the election, will govern well, will be much loved, and I will never trust her.
Simon Crean with Mark Latham and Julia took a great Prime Minister we never had away from me.
Kim.
Crean from within the union movement betrayed it,enough said, he was promoted yesterday.
Will she be silly enough to give Latham job?
My party now will be sharing power new faces and ideas will be heard, a better way to govern Rudd should be rewarded not shunned.
And believe me Julia in about 4 years no more than 5 will fall on the same sword as Kevin,, for the same reasons.
A danger exists for my party, Simon Crean, he must never again have the ear of our leader he is not the man his father was I would run a mile on broken glass to avoid the bloke.

Well, such interest in TBC.

Frankly, there are not many 'positive' posts on OLO, in my 'umble opinion.

We are all complaining about, or proselytising for, one ideal or another and I detect very little shared values across the board, other than, say, the value of OLO as a sounding board for all of us.

I would not like us all to behave in the same way as each other, so Utopian dreams are out.

I see a role for some social and economic friction, to help spur humankind on to better things, which, although hard to see when immersed in the day to day roll-out of 'events', I believe we are achieving, incrementally.

But if life is to be a perpetual learning curve, then it would be good to see more of the population engaged. Not all going to university, nor even TAFE, but seeing some evidence that our community was made up of thinking individuals, rather than reacting, compliant, fearful and scared people.

Graeme's latest OLO survey tells a story, with blue collar voters liking Tory policies,their class enemy, while middle class voters tend more easily towards the ALP and Greens.

Money, as I am sure Belly will agree, helps to make that difference possible, with less time required for worrying about where the food-shelter-health-money is coming from.

But education does too.... a broad education, not just that offered in our sausage-factory coercive schools.

Which is why Tories always prefer not to provide a good education system, and the ALP seem to think they do, sometimes.

Which is also why Gillard was such a total dud as education minister, about a razor blade width above Kemp's low standards and not much better than Bishop.

Belly is correct to be worried about Crean too, who will do absolutely nothing with his new portfolio, including not undoing the anti-worker sections in the IR end of his job that building workers suffer from.

I see no point in being a cheer leader for any politicians here. If they do a good job, that's what we pay them for.

The role of the public critic is to highlight the failings, without siding with any politician at all. It's a good idea to have invested some thought in a solution too, or at least path towards a solution.

These days I vote Green, partly out of having to vote, partly because I like Bob Brown and admire his honesty and community work, partly out of desperation, particularly when I see Senator Hanson-Young, who is a poorly presented dunce much of the time.

Being in Qld, there are no idealist politicians to vote for at the state level, all are dunces and extreme conservatives, whether in the ALP or whatever the Coalition calls itself today. In an act of cutting my-nose-to-spite-my-face, I now exhaust my state vote having voted Green, and I refuse to pass on my preference to anyone else at all (foolishly, Goss brought this system in, so we almost have first-past-the-post here). However, living in a Deep Blue seat, my vote never counts anyway, since all the 'poor folk' here vote National and resent 'book learning', and say 'arkst' (like Anna Bligh does), and, like Barnaby Rubble, think 'pacific' is what you say when emphasising a point '...pacifically... I believe', etc..

At the Commonwealth level, outside the Greens Senate candidates, there is nothing intelligent on offer at all...unless you regard Rudd, Swan, Emmerson and our rightwing ALP Senators as being 'intelligent'.

As for the personal side of my life, this is not the place to blurt it, but suffice to say I am engaged in a wide range of 'community works' and have been for many years, along with many other OLO posters, from all sides of politics.

That is not, I believe, the mark of a total curmudgeon.

And yes Belly, I am 'a unionist', although not currently a member of any, since I am not 'in my calling' at the moment, and I would even, at a pinch, join the AWU if I were to work in an area they covered exclusively.

Thanks for your replies, belly and TBC. I didn't mean to pry - I'm just trying to be a more agreeable person by finding out a bit about people and their motivations rather than simply jumping to conclusions and attacking without cause. Thanks for the insights!

Belly, first it was Rud, with 'increased majority', then he did the old 'Kim Hughes', 'it's all to hard' act and fell on his sword.

Now you push the madam PM's wagon with the same old 'increased majority'. Have you seen the latest polls?

A tip for you.

Wash your feet well old mate, as you seem to take one foot out of your mouth, only to replace it with the other.

Another tip.

Tell your blues to come out in game three with a 'game plan', not a 'fighting plan' and they just might salvage some credabillity.

Five in a row and counting!.History in the making.

TBC look honesty is of value.
I do not dislike you, but must defend my views.
In your posts shining like a beacon is your leftist views.
You take OLO to task for? think much as most Australians do.
Believe me we are in fact very different people here, from very different back ground and learning experiences.
But as conservative cry foul at election of ALP governments and the poor often vote conservative we are not a great deal different.
The old days of unionism are gone, the future is for modern unionism that will not look over its shoulder to communism or Socialism for its ideas.
The union you belittle most is getting back to its foundation SERVICE members even if just one,are getting news and a visit .
In the middle of the fight against work choices after an address from a admitted communist union head thirty members stressed if he ever called them comrade again they would leave the movement.
I grow every day,want even after Leave to serve the union movement your idea of a unionist is dead,a million non existant ghosts walking behind no one.
I am proud of the past but have moved on, the similarity's you see in OLO are not ganging up, you see folk looking through eyes that see a new reality you can not see.
Abbott clearly,is the next candidate to fall.

rechtub for those remarks? you pay for the snags but thanks for pointing out you use hot water.
Blues? if they won it would be a fix, we will maybe have seen fixes in the game.
Now bloke,gee I love debating the uninformed, none of us knew how hard Kevin had become to work with.
In a post about a month ago I warned he had backed down so often he would not on the very issues he had to.
See also I do not trust Julia.
Spend 20 minutes every day rearding your newspapers, and the national ones, see the different slants in them.
after a while you will feel nearly taste the public view point, not the media slant.
This nation is about to fall in love,with Julia.
It is about to be governed much better,,,,you are not far from saying that too.
See she knows her own best outcomes, knows the things you want, will get further in stopping boat people.
Re introduce an ETS ,so toothless even Abbott's successor will pass it.
Mining tax? what little she gets after surrender we the pay as you earn tax payer will makeup,,,serves ourselves right for not putting Australia before our share market.
In time after THE INCREASED majority you will forgive your self for being wrong,forget I was right.
Mate my feet never recovered from my early years in QLD the heavy boots come of and I wander around bare foot, think I Would put them in my mouth?
Maybe I best bring the snags your view of food concerns me.