or.. plain political opportunism and greeeeed.. "Democracy gone horribly wrong"

This is connected to the American political context, but the principles apply to us in Aus.

ILLONOIS.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/article_5a2754dd-a45d-5556-8cf0-c58115871381.html

--1989: Lawmakers approve a 40-year payment plan to have the pensions fully funded, with a seven-year phase-in period. But state law doesn't require set payments each year and the funding guidelines are never met.

-- 2003: A downturn in pension systems investments puts the funds at just 48 percent funded, with a $43 billion debt. New Gov. Rod Blagojevich and lawmakers agree to borrow $10 billion in pension bonds, using most of that to pay down pension debt and get the systems to 61 percent funded. Some of the cash is used to pay other state bills.

Notice that last sentence?.... "other".

Notice the name of the Governor.."Blagojevich"......

Current Unfunded Liablities:

--2008: The pension debt stands at $42 billion,
plus 2 x 3.6 Billion in interest for 2010.

UK... read this..and weep.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/foi_publicservicepensions260406.pdf

READ THIS and turn to drink.....(Illonois)

Ex teacher (still working after retirement)
Gary Catalani..59 Former school superintendant @ salary $380,000/yr
now is on a pension of $237,195/yr PLUS he is still working at $205,000/yr

When Pensions funds fail... over spending..underfunding.. what happens next ?

TAXING the PEOPLE MORE or CUTTING PENSIONS ?

Make all the people pay for unsustainable promises of 'utopia'.
Of course....this works until it all runs out :) which is....*now*

I know what I'd do... "take no prisoners.. show no mercy"

The age of big government is over. Sheer demographics will see to that.
Baby boomers will eke what pension they can out of the government,I guess the government of the day will squander what it can in mining-related receipts until most of that is gone, and then gen-x or gen-y will face up to a reduced, or at least more focussed, scope for government activity.
There will be no other choice.
If we wish to keep an innovative economy, we must grow the pie, and that means getting out of productivity's way.
The sheer waste of poorly-considered government schemes makes me feel ill.
My husband, previously a super-healthy sports-nut, now has health problems related to the stress of making a small business work.
I have to say honestly that almost all of that pressure comes from providing the incredible amounts of tax transfers.
Even when we cannot pay ourselves a living wage, we pay incredible amounts of tax, as debt repayment is classified as 'profit'. Such a government-centred environment is not condusive to a healthy economy long term.
A globally connected world will offer opportunities to societies and governments that embrace a lower-key, more productive way of governing

Yep Floati... it's a battle. Check THIS out as to the level of utter madness of the 'Big' Government

http://www.championnews.net/admin/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/files/Administrators_Salaries_and_Pensions_top100.JPG

see the 4th entry down the list. This is for a "High School Principle"/superintendant.

*the mind boggles*

TWENTY SIX MILLION DOLLARS..... pension. Time for a revolution I think.. not the marxist kind but the common sense re-evaluation of what is affordable type.

This morning I had the true priviledge of meeting and pressing the flesh with the Hon John Anderson, former Deputy PM.. it was a very challenging and stimulating meeting (Outer Eastern Prayer Breakfast) Melb He was the guest speaker..

He dropped a hilarious anecdote...

"One I was speaking to a crowded room in my own consitutuency and I noticed a man who I knew and regarded as a friend, suddenly get up and walk out... Later I joined his wife to ask her if I'd said something that had offended him. "Don't worry.. its all ok" she replied.. Anderson pressed the issue, worried that he had hurt the mans feelings.. finally the wife relented "It was nothing you said.. it's just that recently he has become prone to sleep walking" :)

John said that just as a group of Donvale Christian school youths were all walking out (they were the choir) obviously as they needed to be at class. Good timing for that anecdote I thought.

James Merlino, also present, our 'local labour member' narrowly escaped my 'Equal Opportunity reform Act" wrath due to me having to get back for my son.

But sitting next to me was the councilor for Mullum ward (Ringwood) and myyyyy goodness.. I learned more from her about local politics in 30 minutes than a previous lifetime of googling.

Cheers

So tell us Boaz (Algoreisrich), how would you and Jesus fund pensions if you guys were in charge?

I don't think anyone could argue that government is not important to the enjoyment and good running of a country... but the bloody-minded waste and self-serving nature of it looks extremely out of date.

I was shocked to read in my local paper that amongst all the pork sloshing around local schools, our local little school for intellectually disabled children was unable to find funds for a wheel chair hoist! This, when more than two thirds of their pupils are in wheel chairs!
Our government's treatment of carers and the permanently disabled is arrogant in the extreme.
And I have no capacity to donate any significant funds to them... because I pay so much tax!

Australians love to denigrate the USA as being 'uncaring' because of their more business-embracing political culture, however there is a strong charitable culture there as well.
I would like to see Aussies return to their famous, 'can-do' former selves. Indeed, it seems likely that in future we may have no real choice.
The featherbedding and buckpassing will probably be a thing of the past for my own children. Perhaps it might mean a genuinely more efficient government?
Just hope the come down is not too painful...

Dear Benq

Boaz/Polycarp/AGIR does not give straight forward answers, he preaches - doesn't practise much of what he preaches mind (which given his constant vilification of Islam is good), but expecting an exchange of intelligent and intelligible ideas from the multi-named one is not unlike waiting for Godot.

Cheers

PS

floatinglili

While accept that the conditions of schools in general and specialist in particular are in a parlous state - due to all governments - irrespective of so-called 'right' or 'left' leaning, may I politely suggest if you are paying an excess of tax, do what the wealthy do, get a creative accountant, Gina Rinehart can refer you to a good one.

Benq... I suppose I'm a bit radical for politics.. I must confess, that if it was within my power..I'd slash and burn many of them, and make laws preventing litigation over it. At least until the fiscal "Hurricane Obama" was dealt with.

Unfortunately, democracies are good at promising lots and delivering little. The promise cool pensions to get 'quality' (code for GREEDY) people.. then..when they 'can' just sidestep the liability because they need funding for a more pressing electoral need (like some sectarian sociopolicial move like 'funding Acorn' or.. Union Education funds)
So....the debt just grows because they don't actually have to SPEND that money until people start to retire.. aaaah relief... so..each year.. as Blagojevish and his predecessors going back to 1950 did just that.. until now..they owe over 70 BILLION.

They've been borrowing more just to pay the annual liability, but it's just debt on top of debt.

http://www.championnews.net/admin/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/files/Administrators_Salaries_and_Pensions_top100.JPG

Have a peek youself ! Look at our dear "Neil C Codell" (4th down)

He will get a paultry $26 MILLION.. he was a school principle for crying out loud.

He happens to be STILL working, making over $200k per year.. and his $600,000 "pension" is on top of that..

I would not care who promised what to who... if the choice is "we are broke" because of pensions...or.. "slash pensions" ..I'd do the latter.

Now.. just curious here..WHAT would YOU do ? :)

SEV/FRACCY.. at least you used the correct term vilify "Islam" rather than Muslims.

But you, being a lady without faith.. might find it hard to comprehend where belief in such things could lead... but I'll bet you CAN understand this:

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/004.asp

scroll down to v 34 and read the passage withOUT the "Bracketed" bits as they are not in the Arabic.

Ummm...you would defend wife beating ? ..Would you NOT 'vilify' such behavior ?

Now Boaz/polycarp/agir, why have you made the choice to not address my question?

My question was "how would you fund pensions if you were in charge?".

Give us "your" detailed mathematical estimates and "your" detailed fiscal figures, showing how they'd work in order to produce "your" researched and balanced income stream to fund all government funded pensions.......... take particular notice of the word "your".

I can't make it clearer than that.

So, Boaz/polycarp/agir, do you now understand the question?

Boaz/polycarp/agir

And I raise you a biblical cherry-pick:

"O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
Psalm 137:8-9

Now its your turn to locate something vile from the Qur'an.

But WTF has any of this to do with the topic?

Oh, that's right I am trying to argue with a crazy man. More fool me.

Here's a good biblical quote where people are instructed to kill false prophets "If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him 'you shall not live because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord'. When he prophesies his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through".

Well let's see now........ basically I think Boaz/polycarp/agir does not "really" preach the word of God. Therefore he's a false prophet. Therefore, according to the bible, I must take a sword and "thrust him through".

Hey wait a minute.........

I forgot.......

The quote didn't come from the Koran, therefore it all doesn't matter. We should just ignore it and concentrate on all those horrible "Koran" quotes instead. Boaz/polycarp/agir would be happy with that.

Benq

Just so you know, a couple of Boaz/polycarp/agir's techniques are as follows:

1. 'you are not a christian, therefore you don't understand what you have just cherry-picked because you don't understand the bible in its entirety'

or

2. 'you quoted from the OT, I'm a christian and only follow the NT'.

So when one quotes from the NT Boaz/polycarp/agir refers to #1.

And so it goes.

Sorry Benny.. missed that important Question.

Simple.. If funds don't perform.. neither to pensions.. plain and simple.

If you have a pension with AMP... don't expect ME to bail you out if AMP goes down the gurgler.

You have to see jusssst how OUTrageous are these pensions which are iniquitous in their levels of greed.

26,000,000 for a high school principle ? ? ? outrageous.

As I said.. if da money ain't dere.. it aint dere.
And if the would be recipients wish to take issue with that..they can sue the scumbag politicians to frittered away the money for short term political gain to their hearts content.. it still will not make money appear out of nothing. (and I don't care which side of politics those pollies were on)

If the Lord Jesus was in charge of Pensions ? :) "seek first the kingdom of God..and all these things will be added to you"

"Give us this day out daily bread"

He would take a minimalist 'sufficient for the day' approach Benny
"sufficient" does not include luxuries, but in my case I'd hope there was enough for some coconut gel and lychees for my fruit salad.

Fraccy.. you have me wrong. We better take a couple of hours or remedial therapy - See you at the next Outer Eastern Prayer brekky..next year.

You still haven't answered my question Boaz/polycarp/agir.