Right, the News Media seems to have a bizarre idea of what makes the 'actual' left-wing of the Labor Party.

The left-wing of the Labor Party is the one that represents the Unions, the AWU, ETU, CFMEU, AMIEU, AMU, to name just a few. They come under a council called the Australian Council of Trade Unions, or the ACTU. The so-called "loony left" includes actual Communists (who are the only ones who are actually left-ish), the pro-boat people idiots, the wackos etc.

The right is essentially the inner-city suburban electorates, full of yuppies and single-ethnic community stacking.

The media is going mad, suggesting it is amusing that the "Right" is supporting Gillard against Rudd, they aren't. The "actual Right" (the stacked inner-city branches) are pro-Rudd, the "actual Left", the Unions, especially the harder ones, are supporting Gillard.

If Gillard loses this, my suggestion would be that she go to the back bench and allow Messrs Swann and Rudd to go and lose the next election (which they would, the left destroyed Latham by not voting) then take over again.

If She wins, then the actual union members have ZERO interest in refugees, continued out of control migration and letting jobs go offshore. That is not a "race to the right" (Rudd, tonight), but a race back to the left, to embrace the "ACTUAL" Labor voters who have been left behind by the constant move to the right of the Labor Party (the people who voted for Hanson are predominantly & historically, staunch Labor supporters).

Gillard is from the left, hopefully she stays there.

CUSTARD :) I'll try to make it to Werribee Station during peak hour to display some 'interesting' information *Hi5*

Werribee is Guillard Central.

They are already going nuts in the Pilbara. A dozen crane drivers
on a major site are holding up everything, as 3500$ a week is
just not enough, they want 7% more, so are sticking in the knife.

Union thuggery, just like we used to have it! That will make
Custard so happy.

Perhaps Boazy should learn to spell the new PM's name correctly, or he'll make an even greater idiot of himself. Boazy - get someone to video you and post it on YouTube!

Yabby, are you suggesting that the crane drivers are on strike because Gillard is now PM? Surely just about anybody's better than Rudd.

Gillard is no more 'left' than Macklin or Tanner, or the Ferguson twits are... the entire ALP is a right-middle rightwing party, which is where the vast majority of Australians sit.

The ALP has never ever been 'left' at all but it has tried to cater to 'the workers' who, in the main, are the most dismally rightwing here as they are everywhere else, like the USA and the UK.

The ease with which Gillard, Macklin and Tanner adopted Rudd-speak-and-action is distressing, since Macklin in particular has become a supporter of the most drastic of Howard's policies that she could now easily slip under the wing of Abbott.

Tanner has adapted very easily to the standard view of economics, the dominant neo-liberal rubbish that promotes constant growth and 'free markets', while never being responsible enough to stand free of state props when the 'free enterprise' fails and needs the long suffering tax bail-outs that keep our economic system healthy.

As within the ALP, with its factions, people are only attached to a left right paradigm in order to distinguish one from another.

The titles are totally meaningless when all the economics used is rightwing economics, and there is very little difference at heart between Abbotts economics and Tanners, although I'd wager that Tanner has a better grasp of it than Abbott could ever manage.

All said, it's great to see the back of the ACL controlled Rudd anyway... even if JUlia is no more than Rudd-in-a-frock in reality.

Custard, you DO realize the Labor Party only puts on a front to whichever various sub-groups and lobbyists it thinks will support it.
Otherwise they just ride the gravy train and couldn't care less either which way about "left" or "right".
In fact, the only reason Labor are "Left" at all is because the Liberals beat them to winning over the "right", so Labor are trying different approaches to pander to others who might be gullible enough to support them- and now they've alienated themselves from the "right", they have no choice to pander solely to the "left" or lose everybody.
Just like Liberal would if the tables were reversed- and still do anyway.

I always thought that the "Left" were
battlers, trade unionists, marxists,
failed communists, intellectuals,
teachers, do-gooders and apparatchiks.
That they believed in the socialisation
of industry. Their spiritual home
was at one another's throats, their preferred
sin was - envy, and their motto was, "Jobs For
The Boys!"

Whereas the "Right" were lawyers, small business
people, big business people, stockbrokers,
money marketers, working class Tories,
young people on the make, old ladies, and anybody
else who hadn't witnessed the divide and fall of
Thatcher's Britain. They believed
in keeping the Americans, Corporations, and the
Country Party happy.Their spiritual home was going
round in ever decreasing concentric circles. Their
preferred sin was - greed, and their motto was,
"omnia deducenda" (Latin for "everything should be
deductible").

Uniformed and unintelligent rubbish.
I got it wrong! I said she would never lead us.
AND I said Rudd would be returned, wrong again.
It will be our new PM who leads us into a second term.
Union thuggery?
My faction lead by a man of the future who followed on from a man of today, Paul Howe's and Bill Shorten, are not thugs or mugs, I very much doubt either is involved in the crane story yabby.
Can blindness be a reason for thinking for a second any union or its leader up to and including the ACTU has that much power in the ALP? Stupidity!
I can not find the level of support for Julia I once had for Rudd or Beasley.
I never fell at Bob Hawks feet either, but admire him still.
Julia will gain another term, she will consult her cabinet and in time be much loved
My problem?
Julia ONCE firmly a lefty has swapped sides and is less interested in her once job,, workers rights than any of the above.
She will say its not true but fact is she never again will be left of her own self interest.
The Left stood by Rudd the right stood by the ALP and its new leader.
But this action puts Rabbott back in his box, a great thing for this country.

Now Belly you should find this article interseting.

But as we all know as soon as Gillard said she was not going for the PM's position it was in fact she was.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-faceless-men-who-conspired-to-bring-down-the-prime-minister-20100623-yz8u.html

Julia is clearly a great wordsmith, who knows how to push the punters
emotional buttons and sound genuine, both matter in winning elections.
So I think that she will do ok, certainly better then Kevie, who
lost touch towards the end.

Belly, glad to see that you admitted you got it wrong, I was about
to remind you :)

As to union thuggery, its your lot who are calling out for union
rights and are now running the show. You therefore also carry
the responsibility for union thuggery, for you are making the
rules.

What is happening in the Pilbara, is that we are going back to
where we were in the 70s, when they'd call a strike because they
disliked the colour of the jelly in the canteen.

They don't all think like you, there are plenty of union thugs,
out there to highlight themselves and throw their power around,
because they can.

When blokes go on strike because 3500$ a week is not enough and
they want 7% more, so huge projects are held up, quite frankly
it comes down to little then union thuggery, all happening under
your beloved Govt. These are hardly workers hard done by.

Look, let's get real... we are not in the race to be 'power-brokers'..we do not bother to pretend to be guardians of 'the national interest, we know that we have views, each of us, that are not shared by everyone else on this blog.... we all have lives to lead that require work... but we are commenting on people who live a totally useless life, but for the fact that they run us... and control us... and decide what we do next... apart from that... they serve no useful function.

That said.... ummm... why do we tolerate this crap? Why do we all agree to allow complete tossers to control what we read, see, do, believe?

Bugger Gillard, and the rest of 'em, including Abbott's halfwit arse-heads who seek to steal the prize from the ALP... where are our own warriors?

I know... can't be bothered, doesn't really matter, not interested, oh, I don't do politics... and so on.

We are all fools to think that 'others' could do it better.

But... what do they really achieve, in a globalised world, where profits rule anyway, and everywhere?

Just wondering?

Well Blue Cross
one off those warriors is here.
I ran as an independent for charlton at the last federal election and will do again at this one.

Could i do better

well for starters i dont have to bow to any party,
i dont have to be a head nodder and agree for the sake off a party
If its a load of bull then its bull.

Thats the problem too much party me, me going on and not enough of the people.

Yes you are right about the people, but then the media and media have a lot to answer and the people read it then believe it, instead of checking the facts.

So even if i dont win the seat of charlton i would have won anyway.
I would have stood for accountability and my own respect.

At least all these labor people must be happy that it will probably cost a billion dollars to fix the insulation mess, thats right all taxpayers are paying for that.
All those that are sick,disabled,ederly, whether they are labor or not,whether they are in a union or not.

What does it take for these idiots to stand up for the people in government and say this is wrong.

Well not labor or any others its all about the party and their position.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent

yabby take a breath.
I time and again, refer to that union as thugs and mugs.
I get further in it, for saying what most unionists think.
My Union is the future, not left , not an enemy of business, more often in some industry the life boat for both bosses and workers from fat braces wearing loud mouth types.
you put all unions in one basket, reality is it is an uncomfortable bed.
Labor yesterday was returned to office yabby it is proof my view rabbott could never win has NOW come true.
tapp, not to sure what your point is so here is some information for you.
I have seen the refereed to piece.
Labor yesterday won the next election.
Billion dollars? ROFL.
Left? todays ALP is yesterdays Liberal do you understand that?
Gloat my Friend I do, for a short time I thought we had a real fight on our hands.

Belly, I can now see why you live the global warming crowd so much..

They are the only people on earth, with a worse record with their predictions.

Why is it that those who have got so many predictions wrong, are so dogmatic in their next lot?

Must be something in the water coolers the unions & unis use?

Be frank hasbeen but would honesty be ok too?
Yes said Julia would never lead,got it wrong.
Thought it would be Rudd who returned us to office with an increased majority got that wrong too.
It will be Julia.
Apart from, if you are telling the truth, my view you walk and talk like a former Liberal or God forbid National, I can think of nothing I got wrong.
Are you hasbeen Wilson Tucky? have you ever served with shadow minister.
I am not being funny, I truly see the lost nature of todays opposition in your posts.
And am impressed that you based on your posts think I get it wrong .
On election night I look forward to talking to you here.

Very simplistic interpretation Custard.

The unions and the Left did not depose Rudd. The unions were the last to know about it. By all accounts it was a Right Faction coup, which gathered momentum after consultation with the Left Faction and with Gillard herself, given she was not going to challenge the leadership. Rudd's office may have unwittingly set the ball rolling by last minute internal polling of support, creating a springboard for the disgruntled to launch from. Probably the only time Rudd actually listened to or communicated with backbenchers.

No matter all that. In regards to Left and Right, there is no Left in Australia and the remnants of the Left have no influence. Both major parties are spinning the same old economic twaddle to which we are all accustomed.

There are plenty of Right Wing unions in Australia in the form of Business Councils and associations lobbying on behalf of specific business interests.

*Both major parties are spinning the same old economic twaddle to which we are all accustomed.*

Actually Pelican, its not just twaddle. It works in the real world
to satsify the needs and hopes of most of the punters, that is
why we use it.

Nobody has come up with a better option which can be shown
to actually work in the real world out there, including you.

Not even your favoured Greens have come up with a viable option.
They trip up right at the start, when we start to question
their population policy.

So just lots of feelgood, starry eyed idealism, is not going to
be enough, I'm afraid.

But I accept, its easy for you to be little but a smartarsed
backseat driver:)

We all every one of us, get it wrong.
Make crimson fools of our selves in talking rubbish.
Few after doing so say well I got that wrong, maybe I need to watch what I say.
Some comment after a quick glance at a news paper headline, not bothering to read it in full, to see the story re butts the headline.
But no, I just can not pretend I did not see the first post here.
AWU a left wing union? no,, no one can think that?
Australian Workers Union? our best union?
The fastest growing union?
The leftists call it Australia's Weakest Union, because? it grows it serves it gets the refuges from them.
Any one who thinks all unions are left should refrain from commenting.
And AWU never ever was or will be leftist.

Yabby
We are all smart-arsed backseat drivers, and that is the right of the electorate in a democracy. What are you? Just another smart-arsed backseat driver or is that tag only reserved for whom you disagree.

My position is simple as you already know - I am not a socialist and believe in the capitalist system but not in it's unfettered form. For it to work in the best interests of the collective (that word again) it has to be tempered with some regulation so that it does not serve a small section of the community at the expense of the others. To that end a social democracy seems to work best despite the constant tweaking favouring the unfettered end of the spectrum in recent years. Unfortunately neither the ALP or the Coalition show much gumption in reversing the trend.

I would love to believe in socialism in its purest form - it sounds great but it doesn't work. The fact is human nature gets in the way and corruption and vested interests will always compete with what we would like things to be - the ideology.

You are just miffed because I don't agree with your unfettered free trade and economic globalisation perspective. :P

*or is that tag only reserved for whom you disagree.*

Yup :)

*I would love to believe in socialism in its purest form - it sounds great but it doesn't work*

Ah that greatest of human conflicts, between emotion and reason,
between what we feel and what we think. It shows in your writing
and I can actually relate to it.

So that was my point really, that our present system is not twaddle,
but the best that we have and its realistic.

They say that life experiences build character. Its perhaps because
I've been really stony broke before, that I always focus on how
the bills will eventually be paid, when people come along with
new "you beaut" schemes.

My other point is that capitalism does not have to be about forever
more, as many claim. I know plenty of people who have done ok, but
see money as nothing but a means to an end, not an end in itself.
I personally actually have very modest spending habits, because I
enjoy the simple life. That does not mean that I don't understand
it to be the one system which lets human innovation flourish and which
lets us live our lives with freedoms that no other system could
match. That is why I support it.

I have lost mates, well online mates, here and in an ACTU thread about workers rights.
Because as a unionist some think I should be socialist.
Well as a child yes,even communist, but it was a dream.
I am capitalist, best we have, one day as yabby says we may find something better not yet.
Unions, trade business are not evil self interest drives them.
yabby this thread is about a lie or knowing bugger all about the subject.
Nothing could give an informed man or woman the idea Rudd fell to a leftist plot.
Your concerns at WA sharing it wealth with us as well as overseas investors bought Rudd down.
Back seat drivers? this thread exposed some who crawl into the boot close their eyes then drive, on your side of the fence too

Pelican & Belly,

You are both members of the Unions - leave your prejudged ideals of what the loony-left is and is not (I mean the Reds, the Green-Left etc.)... For the future of the collective, the left has to be remade - not the province merely of loons and students, the left from here on encompasses what the Unions want.

We don't care about the false-boundaries protected by the factions.
WE ARE THE ALP, not the stacked to the eyeballs 'inner-City' seats, the Cambodian/Lebanese branches, or anybody else, WE (the WORKERS) are the ALP, the ones who stand on the picket lines, the ones who fight the scabs (always have been) we've simply been ignored too often. That is why so many Union Members (ie. ALP BASE TYPE WORKERS) backed Hanson & One Nation (you didn't even want our preferences, mugs).

Yeah, we are bogans, thugs, rednecks boofheads, xenophobic pr1cks, etc. We like our Country like it used to be, not full of entire suburbs like Cabrammatta, La Kemba, etc. We don't want that, we really don't care whether the Navy sinks every boat it encounters (and let the survivors provide a benefit the sharks who are being decimated by the shark-fin fishing boats). You and the rest might not like it, we really don't care, we vote and are entitled to our opinions. What we want is to be "REPRESENTED" by OUR PARTY, not sold out by it.

We don't like latte sipping "intellectuals" (particularly when we are smarter than them), but don't feel bad, collectively speaking, we really don't like many people at all. We aren't in the center however, or we wouldn't pay Union dues would we? We wouldn't support fellow unionists and pay the price, both physically and legally. Without us, the ALP CANNOT EXIST, that is why the Caucus is set up the way it is, those who bore the ALP out of the AWU ensured from the outset that we could no longer be ignored. Guess what? Time to pay the piper.

Oh dear, there must be prunes in that custard for the bad tummy effect to have shot that lot out.

I didn't realise there were any 'ordinary' members left in the ALP, so I am shocked to read of a 'true believer' on OLO.

I always thought there were only union officials and political 'advisors' keen for a job that made up the less than 10,000 members of the national ALP.

There you go, an endangered species has just been found and identified on OLO!

Amazing. Maybe Tim Winton can write a book on it?

Jack Thompson can shoot a film about it... and we can apply to the UN for a grant to keep it alive.

But if this is a genuine outburst of adoration for Queen Julia, for I am sure anyone subscribing to Custard's worldview would only be a monarchist, then what does it mean to those of us who are not 'bogans' as described so 'eloquently' above?

Perhaps a small nuclear strike here might not be so bad after all?

But who should it hit?

Without the excessive salaries of the 'latte' set there will be no one to buy the workers wares, and without the workers there will by no one to cream the excessive salaries from... we are united as never before.... seems prunes and custard will have to keep getting on together for a long time yet.

Can I feel a Bellyache coming on too?

Tell us what you really think Custard. As opposed to your pre-judged ideas. For someone despising intellectuals you share a similar superiority complex.

Don't know why you think I am a unionist, I merely pointed out that the unions had nothing to do with the leadership spill, they were the last in the pecking order to be canvassed. I see unions as an interest group the same as any other, there are some good honest people in unions as well as the politicised careerist who has lost their way.

Howes stated on one news report his support for Gillard came about because of a fear of the re-introduction of Work Choices, believing she has a better chance than Rudd of winning and an Abbott win would be to the detriment of workers.

Well Julia must be listening she is re-thinking the Big Australia policy although I suspect for different reasons than what you have put forward. These are the sorts of issues that could be put to referendum.

(What is it about the correlation between latte sipping and intellectualism. Those poor latte drinkers really need a union, they are often maligned and tagged as insignificant and ineffectual despite many of them probably being plain hard working and decent people. What about beer drinking intellectuals - I suppose they are okay.)

Yabby much of it is twaddle.

You appear to think any criticism of capitalism (or modern economic thinking) must be by nature pro-socialism/communism. A system is what we make of it, it should work for us and to the greater benefit, not become a life force in itself. ie. some amorphous and politicised economics formula to suit one particular view that may not always serve the common good.

Do you think the system is perfect? Do you think the system is as fair as is possible, particularly in relation to inequitable partnerships in the developing world.

Thinking differently to you does not make the argument emotional. IMO you should just argue your position without personal assumptions. We all know the realities of dealing with other economies but many of the 'realities' you refer are modern conventions once thought radical. Human beings are adaptable and can make better decisions or improve on old ones, just because something is so now does not mean it has to be thus for ever forward.

The system can be tweaked to ensure greater fairness and, dare I say it, serve the national interest (accepting of course that there will be disagreement on how that might be achieved).

Custard- The Blue Cross regards indeed thanks.
I feed on the pain of the loony left, the sight of 4 VW combi vans heading for conference from the north shore thrills me.
Cuddling up to that union Secretary with the Che shirt, funny it shows him dead on the table?
We evil center unity types always win the voting, dreadful stuff, stopped a VW Armada setting of to rebuild the Berlin wall.
Stopped the importation of Stalins statue, it would have looked ugly out side the Sydney town hall.
Unity is strength but holding your meetings in that phone box is a bit different.
Am I about right? are you still fighting to keep numbers above ten in your groups.
Lash out at me, after all its the only joy you will get from politics unless you like being beaten.
True, not stirring, the true left within the ALP is as much my enemy as any conservative that ever lived.
They kept my party in opposition for too long my party did not move to the right.
IT FOLLOWED ITS VOTERS THERE.

Custard, are you actually a member of the ALP? I ask because you don't seem to know how the party actually works.

I was a member for many years, until I left in disgust at the internal corruption at the branch and local level, together with the lurch to the Right.

Belly - the ALP did more than shift to the Right to chase its traditional voters. It abandoned its heart and soul in its quest for power for its own sake, and many long term members like me found somewhere better to go.

Anybody who thinks Julia Gillard is of the Left these days is dreaming.

Pelican, much of OLO is twaddle. But at its core, its still
a good thing. Its much the same with our economic system.

Sure it can be tweaked and changed, but the old leftie-greenie
arguments of business is evil, big business is even more evil,
money is evil, we want a revolution etc, gets rather boring.

Some people do in fact think beyond just wearing their hearts
on their sleeves and they are ones that I'm interested in
listening to. To see if there is anything in there that
is different for a change.

Just this weekend I saw an interesting interview on Bloomberg.
It was with an idealist called Jacqueline Novogratz. She went
to Africa etc, wanted to help the poor and saw exactly what
I saw there. Waste everywhere. All these people with good
intentions, sending all sorts of stuff, equipment etc to Africa,
most of it was wasted. So good intentions are not going to
do it and cries of fairness are not going to do it either.

http://www.acumenfund.org/

So she founded this fund, with a very different approach. Sounds
like its working! This all sounds alot more effective to me,
then all the smashing of shops, burning of cars and other
demonstrators tools, that the anarchists, trotzkyites and other
left wing loonies have been undertaking in Toronto

Ah to stir is to live:D NOICE

I come from a strong Union family, in a strong Union area and my first job(s) were in closed-shop workplaces... Makes my view somewhat 'odd' for someone in my position. I realise that, but when it is bought up, I fall back on my bogan upbringing and really and DILIGAF says it all. As for being a true believer, YES and PROUD of it. I'm the person on the picket line who will start it, the one who knows the point at which violence is indicated (its just good ol' fun, a steelcap to the skull never hurt anyone) how to get away with it:D

Are the Unions making a resurgence, I suspect they are - it doesn't show yet, but yes, given the extent of personal indebtedness and the state of our national finances, I suspect they will be. I strongly suspect we have only dodged 'part' of the economic crisis, and we've beggared ourselves doing so. The current crisis is getting money back into the coffers, because if there is a second wave of the GEC, we are for it. That equals retrenchments, sackings (actually, for the clever clogs on contracts, that means they'll almost certainly regret signing on any line) and a resurgence of Unions.

Did anyone else here notice how little interest there was in boat people during the "recession we had to have"? Average Aussies had bigger problems and even the boat people didn't want to be here. I'm amazed nobody has wondered "WHY?" we need the Super Profits Tax so badly? I have no comment on the Ruddy-Money, or its effects, but we managed to weather the first wave (one way or t'other)

PS Am I a Monarchist? I wasn't for a long time, but as I see the two Princes actually doing what the Royal family should have been doing for a LONG time, I'm beginning to be swayed back... Their joining the services... The way they can talk TO instead of DOWN TO the wounded troops? Yeah, that is a mark in their favor.

You are an ol' stirrer from wayback Custard. :)

Yabby there is a lot of waste in the Aid business not to mention a bit of corruption as well.

But there is a lot being done where communities are supported in helping themselves - that is the only way real change can occur not through some misplaced sense of Western patriarchial do-good fuzziness.

Good intentions don't necessarily solve anything but they are the potential or the hope for doing things better. Doing nothing will guarantee nothing changes.

You are still bleating on about Trostsky and Anarchists and Left wing paranoia which has nothing to do with any of this - and completely missed my point. But it is what it is - not much more I can add.

So Custard - youre a unionist, but that's certainly not the same thing as an ALP member. Behaving like a bogan thug on a picket line is one thing, but all that makes you is a "useful idiot" as far as the ALP's concerned. You don't actually have any input into ALP policy and processes.

You may call yourself a "true believer", but that is a term normally reserved for actual ALP members, rather than the rank-and-file union members upon whom they depend.

I've been a member, I've spent many, many days dealing with the crap that comes with elections, walking around in the rain handing out how to vote propaganda, filling in for members at sausage sizzles while the 'member' I was supporting turned up 8 hours late (leaving me cooking the whole time).

Let's just say I'm an "ex-member" at present (due to the idiotic factional f-ups in Qld Labor, seeing the idiocy that left the heads of electoral offices in jail kind of aggravated me, these people have no hope in the real world). Thug/Mug/Bogan, it's all good, I have an arrest sheet longer than I am and no convictions, that kinda says something, no?

I also have an IQ that puts me in the top 1% of the population (I keep that one to myself, dunno - kind of seems like I'm a dud person to give that to).

Why has nobody answered my question?

WHY ARE WE DESPERATELY SEEKING TO REFILL THE STOCKING RUDD EMPTIED?

Anyone noticed the EXTREME dip in residential clearances in Brisbane (for example)?

Does noone here know that while the Great Depression started in the USA, it was coming back under control. Then dropped like a stone due to a clusterf**&^K in Europe (actually Austria)? Anyone here see what is happening in Europe at the present time?

I do adore the way the average person fails to look behind the curtain to see why things are happening... Didn't someone once say that history has a habit of repeating itself?

Dunno, don' ask me I'm just a bogan thug mate...;)

PS I prefer the Unions, I think I have more hope of reaching a decent spot through the 'old' route. As Rudd found out last week, the ALP doesn't have a lot of power in its own right does it:D

Sorry Pelican, just noted your post - yeah, stirring is good

But as for the loony/green left, let's just say my mother told me that when I have nothin' good to say to say nothin'... 'Nough said really.

But I am always amused when people regard the unions as being in the center, depends on your point of view of course.

I remember seeing the life-size poster of Chairman Mao in the local AMIEU Office, now those boys weren't playing games when they called everybody 'Comrade'. Yet according to the 'factions' that union, and others, are on the right... Always has had me kind of confused really:P

Who EXACTLY are they to the right of? Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov? If so, it couldn't be by much.

If that means they are to the right of the ratbags that publish news on recycled paper and the other clowns, then I suppose that is a necessary evil. I mean, Stalin was a centrist, and they are probably closer to Marx than him...

But no, I personally resent the slide to the right, led by the stacked branches, with over-educated, under-experienced clowns who wouldn't know a shop floor if they happened to fall over it. People like Rudd (was Latham ever in a union?), who from memory only ever was in a 'student union' (p1ss up tyros) aren't Unionists. Gillard is , it shows in her understanding of what the actual supporters want and/or care about.

I welcome the current situation, the ability to stack branches is one thing, the ability to win a knock-down, drag-out fight is another. The sooner the Unions reclaim the ALP the better I'll like it, then it is only for the 'actual' unionists to reclaim the unions. Big tip, I share your opinion about the VW vans, may they all burst into flames...

Does that mean that they are National Socialists not International Socialists.