I enjoy a discussion just as much as anyone and the topic of the year so far is Islam and whether or not Muslims are out to end [western] civilisation as we (non muslim) know it. Seeing it written like that kind of makes that statement look ridiculous, and to me it is, but going by all the rhetoric on the internet you'd be forgiven if you believe that a billion Muslims are on the southern shores of Malaysia getting ready invade north Australia with the intent of hacking off your head and THEN converting you.

Nearly every forum I visit is dominated by people preaching distrust and sometimes just plain old hate towards Muslims and their way of being. Thank GOD there is a minority (IMO) of people who fight the fight of sanity and argue with facts and not what one person called "inductive reasoning" by making sweeping generalisations about a billion Muslims being extremist. Those same people get their backs up when someone writes an article on how there is a racist, predjudiced, bigoted undertone to Australia.

Is this all a media driven scare tactic based loosely on fact and carried on a wave of opportunistic predjudism or do I really have to worry about the Muslim guy I share my lunch hour with everyday?

I always worry about the Muslim guy I share my lunch hour with every day, but only because he smokes.

StG

Yes...I'm hearing you, but have to politely disagree.

Muslims are attacking non Muslims on 2 fronts.

1/ Cultural Educational via the courts.
2/ Violence where they can get away with it. (Somalia, Sudan etc)

The only real question which should concern you is this.

Which manifestation of Islam is the most accurate ?

If I may, I will quote from a Hadith, which I have included on this web site http://www.truetruth.wikispaces.com (please view and read that carefully, but ignore any death threats in the discussion section)

QUESTION:
HOW...did Mohammed and his chief companions interpret the Quran in regard to Infidels/Polytheists ?

ANSWER:
"Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya" (Al Mughara, sent by Omar to fight infidels)

You will see the full context and how those words relate back to the Quran, on the web site. Of particular importance is the fact that Kaysar Trad would give 'SPIN' on the Quran and say "Muslims can only fight DEFENSIVELY" well..I've proven that to be an outright lie at worst, or massive misrepresentation at best. Note..I say 'proven'.

Fellow Human from OLO has often given this 'spin'.

I reject totally the idea that what I'm saying is based on 'hate for Muslims' how can I hate people who have been misled and lied to by their own leaders ? They are sheep, and their shepherd is not a man, but a wolf and the 'fenced paddock' is not to protect them but to keep them for the slaughter as a pantry for living food.

Their leaders will answer to Almighty God over this, or.. to the Federal Police in the mean time if they take the clear interpetation into the real contemporary world with a few missing rocket launchers.

The Muslim guy you share your lunch with ?

Probably not a worry, just like the warm hearted Muslim friend at gym I often spend time with. But in his case, his brother in law was murdered by the Muslim Iranian Mullahs, so I don't think he will be signing up for Al Qaeda anytime soon.

But in general, Muslims who don't fit that kind of category could be friend one day, enemy the next.

Examples.

-Bosnia/Serbia. (that is exactly what happened)
-I used to buy meat and walk past the Muslim head man in a town in Malaysia, who had been delegated the job of murdering every single missionary at the place I spent 8 yrs. (He was part of the Brunei Rebellion) But to the onlooker he was just another Malay bloke going about his daily business.
-Malay Muslims in the village just near us: Many of the older generation owed their very lives to our medical work a decade or so earlier. But when a water shortage came, the young ones who had not directly benefited from this only saw 'Christians' downstream from the water pipe going through their village and they cut water off to us so they could have it all.

So, in short, yes of course you don't need to worry about your lunch mate. But who knows... it could change.

POLICY is the answer at government level ..and PROCLAMATION (of the Gospel) at the spiritual.

"Nearly every forum I visit is dominated by people preaching distrust and sometimes just plain old hate towards Muslims and their way of being."

Witness exhibit A: Boaz.

Loose facts, media driven frenzy I think not.
The facts are as plain as day have a look at http://www.jihadwatch.org
newspapers, television, the Quran, sudan somalia Bosnia Iran Iraq Afghanistan Palestine 9/11 etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc, the facts are we are dealing with dangerous believers of an unforgiving religion and what can be a moderate can turn fundamentalist at the drop of a hat.
If anything the media does not report half of what is going on, they instead focus on the biggies terrorists, mad muftis and the like. You dont here them reporting anymore that a person of middle eastern appearance is wanted in conjunction with some crime.
If some nutbag tries to insinuate that Aussies are racists at heart and we get a bit shirty over her insinuation well so be it.
Spendocrat ol' mate,
At 24 years old your still a kid so Ill forgive your ignorance of the world partly because Id say youve had the treatment from the institutions already. You Rainier and Cj seem to enjoy dumping on BOAZ, mate hes that far in front of you blokes on the intellect stakes its not funny. Still I enjoy you guys trying to insert words that most have never heard of just to mke yourselves seem smart.

You amuse me little BRO

It is a very complicated situation but not a new situation. Religion has always been a threat to freedom which is at the foundation of this. It is easy to throw Islam under one banner and say it conspires to destroy us but Christians have been doing the same without the degree of criticism that Islam has received. Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma bomber represented much of Christendom when he committed the terrorist attack killing many innocent people. Likewise in the U.S terrorist attacks on people and institutions associated with abortion have been going on for decades. Banning Gay marriage is an attack on freedom and maintains the same values as laws in Nazi Germany. In Nicaragua rape victims can be executed or imprisoned for life for abortion. Through out the horror and terror that is the religious world there are people who are born good and remain good. This would occur in a population of devil worshippers. Religion creates more harm than good and the good is the good of people who would be good regardless.

The crimes religion inflict upon the world all religion including both Christianity and Islam should be judged as an evil and not be trusted by the public. Islam should not be trusted by Moslems and Christianity should not be trusted by Christians for those people are just as much victims of those superstitious cults as those external to the cults. With trust has come manipulation and with manipulation has come persecution and terrorism.

Christianity and Islam have long developed into football team like cults demanding loyalty and obsession with a sense of competition with nature. Salvation becomes integrated with judgment, offence at nature and arbitrary blasphemy. In the end god is exposed as the ego and self worship.

Religion is the problem and it is just as much the Moslems problem as it is everybody else’s problem. The distinction between Islam and other religions is no more the distinction between narcotics. The world can use this opportunity to route out all religion.
Spiritual belief has to be individual, Religious institutions have to go.

Cheers Scotty, not at all patronising. And I was unaware I was using big or rare words, maybe they just seem that way from your perspective.

Lay off, stick to the topic.

Why worry as soon as they run out of oil they will be rooted, so in ten years or so their oil revenues wil be a fraction of what they are now. Then they might realize that their leaders have squandered all their wealth.
They can't feed themselves now, and are breeding about 3 times the rate we are.
Work the rest out for yourselves, I don't know what will happen but it sure won't be pleasant.
Alanpoi

WAR? on the WEB ?

yep.. just look at this and see it all in living color.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDztjPzvSM

Spendo, I've tried to find anything like this for 'white' communities and there is zilch. The only thing I can find is the 'reaction' to this...i.e. Cronulla.

Don't forget to look at http://www.prophetofdoom.net/

if you look at the 'In the Company of Good and Evil' link (its about corporate intrigue, not religion) you should find the bit about "Glenda" and her "Hitler Youth" :) and then compare that..(the inside story) with this. The "Corporate Public Announcement"
http://news.com.com/Value+America+files+for+bankruptcy,+lays+off+185/2100-1017_3-244388.html

but then read the last chapter 'The wicked witch' :)

"WAR? on the WEB ?

yep.. just look at this and see it all in living color.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDztjPzvSM "

To me, that just looks like a bunch of bored kids (did ANY look over 20?) with nothing to believe in but pseudo "gangsta" culture. These are early days of a growing issue that needs to be controlled by rational thinking, thank god most of those kids will mature into valuable members of this society and the department of corrections will sort the rest out.

The multicultural utopia is a myth, human nature being being what it is will always have conflict due to its own structure and what people bring to it....history and ignorance.

StG
quite true mate.. my biggest concern is where those young fella's now who are doing the warring, will mature into racists who perpetuate the same stuff to their own offspring.

I saw a discussion on the youtube vid, where Macedonians and Greeks were using Herodotus like the Bible..chapter and verse.. clinging to any Syllable or phrase which suggested support for their spin on history about whether Alexander was a Greek or Macedonian.

That kind of thing won't just go quietly, it needs to be educated out of them. Only a pro-active inculcation of 'Australian-ness' will combat this kind of thing. With the reservation that we must also avoid a jingoistic approach.

I like to believe in the basic good in people..I kinda have too really, either that or I build a shack in the bush.

Yes, no doubt a few of them will become the future of the problem but I believe that just as many will come out the other side seeing the ignorant rhetoric for what it is and positively affect the future of just as many youths.

StG on the surface your comment is quite sound. Most people's lives are at least subconciously based on the assumption of human goodness.

If one lost faith in that, well... for sure its the shack.

My hope is based on something different though. I actually believe man is fundamentally sinful. Have you ever had to 'tell' a child to be naughty ? :) What are 'laws' ? Are they not the amplification of the 10 Commandments (with the exception of the first few relating directly to God) which are all in the form of DONT..... such and such.

All law is intended to restrain activity which would be harmful.
I'm not aware of any laws which say we must be 'good' or that we should mow an old ladies lawn... nope..they are all in the 'cannot' form.

But this doesn't mean we have no hope. I regret that we cannot sit down and go through the Gospel together, because that is where the answer to the human predicament is. I regret that so many people have been exposed to an abundance of myths about the Bible and the Church, and have not taken the trouble to look more closely, seeing as such myths coincide with existing prejudices.

Once we strip these away, we are left with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification.. in whom we can find life abundant and free.
http://truetruth.wikispaces.com/The+Truth+about+Christianity.

Cheers mate.

I recognise the opposite to Boaz. I see that people are born with dispositions and a good person remains good no matter what and a bad person remains bad no matter what. I believe bad people need to believe in moral codes such as religion to make them behave. I believe this is the nreaon why the large majority of religious people are bad people it is becauswe superstitious cults such as Islam and Christianity attracts bad people who need to straighten out for their own survival. As every sect of every religion has proved every day of that religions existence religion , the belief in god never makes a bad person good.Although religion continues to destroy many good people.
The ten commandments have been used to justify imense evil throughout history and to this very day and as they are dictorial in nature represent bad values and immorality.The ten commandments do nothing for the good person and egg on the bad to commit crimes (punish others) in the name a deity for this reason there is no difference between God and Hitler.
Now where is the difference between Nazis and God beliving terrorists?

I read this the other day,
http://www.nazisociopaths.org/modules/article/

enjoy:-)

West, a friend of mine has a simple take on what you're saying......

"Where's there's God, there's war!"

Religion wrapped up nicely in a nutshell I'd say!

Response to BOAZ_David:

Why are you refloating the Ham Sandwich myth? You know I contacted Hume Council and it was a myth. You know it never happened. And despite all my efforts to find out the truth, you posted it again!

I think that shows no respect for honesty.

As far as I am concerned, anything you now post is suspect.

Sorry Boaz I must join with David, using a home made website to reinforce your argument is just too hilarious. You are right because somebody else shares your opinion? You could have saved us the page load time by refering to your other posts on the Forum. But thankyou for the good laugh.

David Latimer: "As far as I am concerned, anything you now post is suspect."

Yes, I made the exact same point a couple of weeks ago concerning Boaz's repeated mendacity in this forum [ http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=347#6318 ]. However, in this case, there seems to be a kernel of truth in the ham sandwich beat-up, although this in no way excuses Boaz's execrable exaggeration of the story.

I don't believe anything he writes unless he provides reliable corroborating evidence.

David BOAZ says that Hume Council banned Ham Sandwiches. I checked directly with Hume Council about their ban, and they replied they did not know of any such ban.

I was about to repost on that basis, but will triple-check. I want to follow up on a EVOC loose end to this issue, which may confirm your view. This may take several days.

Apology to BOAZ_David:

On Monday, 22 January 2007 4:20:47 PM, I compained about David BOAZ and the Ham Sandwich myth.

After checking again, further detail was given to me and there is a kernel of truth to this story from 2003. At one time, caterers were given instructions not to include pork at council functions, but the policy was very soon changed so that food was labelled and a variety of different foods are made available.

But this does mean I was wrong and I take back what I said about David BOAZ and apologise for posting it.

As WEST wrote:
"Religion is the problem and it is just as much the Moslems problem as it is everybody else’s problem. The distinction between Islam and other religions is no more the distinction between narcotics. The world can use this opportunity to route out all religion.
Spiritual belief has to be individual, Religious institutions have to go."

Great idea,let's forfeit all landholdings and buildings these religions own and disperse the funds (minus demolishion costs)between setting up of people owned laboratories to do some decent honest research on "people killing pharmaceuticals" and a fighting fund to distroy the chemical companies and sack all bludgers in canberra and grab all or most of paid out retirementfunds from ex-governmentees.
How's that for starters?
West what you are suggesting is very much in the "Globalist Agenda's"
view correct. Very dangerous for people!

ftfnc no I am saying a vulnerable mind believes in god. A god believer is superstitious and institutions ,( I include all types of preaching and advertising here and I include scriptures and religious books ) -institutions prey and manipulate superstitious sensibilities. I am saying that a person is who is superstitious can be left to explore their phantom world peacefully without aggressive input. The Bible , Quran , religious sects and texts including churches and mosques should all be banned. Im not suggesting internment camps or anything like that we have to address religion for waht it is like smoking or drink driving, a health campaign. We should start by making every new Bible and every church door show an photo of an oklahoma bombing victim on the cover and a terror victim on mosque doors with a warning of what religion does to a persons health and the health of others. Later we squeeze out religion through legistlation and taxes. If we want to live in a peaceful world where we can concentrate on important issues we have got to phase out religion. As long as there is somebody stirring up people threatening and motivating them with superstition our species wont survive and conflict will exist as long as we do.

West
"As long as there is [SOMEBODY] stirring up people threatening and motivating them with superstition our species wont survive and conflict will exist as long as we do."
But...but that SOMEBODY could be taken as the illuminate's, who are threatening,motivating us with superstition and anti religious wars as per setting the religions against one another for the hidden agenda as we know it. The sheep think to defend themselves against the others, the wolf looks on for the right time,nah?
This clearly needs grassroots action as you say about the posters on those ancient oak doors. It will be torn down in 2 min's because of a bylaw.It needs to be a roots action.mmm let's see, how about taking fluoride out of our drinking water first? It has a mind numbing effect which does not help when someone needs or wants to involve other people to take action as a group.

If posters are torn down then fine the practitioner for operating against the law. At some point we have to grow up and treat religion for what it really is , it is a health problem not unlike drugs and we should deal with it in the same way. Of course we should budget to get people off of god and offer them rehabilitation services and we should be tough with those pushing religion. Churches should be open to litigation from those or those who's family members have been affected by religion wether its terrorist attack or breaking families up. Religion is a real and harmful issue facing our society just as smoking and drugs are.