http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10181725.stm
Strewth that's quick 1,759,000,000,000 calculations per second
Check out how long 1 seconds worth would take a PC
But where are we? tip bottom right hand corner!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10187248.stm

Now the serious bit.
Without proper access and training for real computing power Australian brains are going to migrate to where they can do proper research. How can we do high end research with the computer equivalent of steam powered technology bar one?

We need as a nation at least 2 more high end computer centres for basic research. This doing commercially salable research science for today and tomorrow WE need science for 20 year on and beyond.

Without them we as an academic powerhouse is going to become and also ran, we need to lift our game. We clearly are slipping, I see these super computer rankings as an example of multiple (Australian) government's failures financially starving our universities and long term/reaching research. IMO one more example of 'get elected, short term mentality of a flawed self interested party system.
We priorities/policy that look further out, pollies with the guts to back them, and a population that can accept a need to ensure the FUTURE.

What do you think?

Examinator, before you worry about trying to do advanced research requiring super computers, may I suggest you need to get more experience of the real world?

You blame the government for not providing the computers you want. Well, the fact is that governments are to blame for that, as well as a great many other things that are going wrong. Don't tempt me to provide a list! Until you fix the rotten system that governs us, all the wonderful research you want to do will be pretty much worthless. And fixing governments does not need super computers. It just needs you, and a few millions like you,to use your commonsense.

Examinator....you ask:

Now the serious bit.
Without proper access and training for real computing power Australian brains are going to migrate to where they can do proper research.

Of course the answer is ELSEWHERE.

Which leaves the poor old masses of Jack and Jillaroos wandering around playing with our 3rd world situation while more and more Jacks and Jills are left socially marginalized and economically disenfranchised.

They don't have the brains to be 'super computer high end whizz kids' but they can work a lathe or milling machine.. or push a pen.... but hey..that was in 2010.. now it's 2020 and all those jobs are now being done by Chinese or Indians via high speed internet connections..or by very efficient transport arrangements.

I can pack a product today.. send it by 2.00pm and it will be in Singapore at the door of my customer by 10.00am the next morning.
That's better than jolly Couriers Please to the very next suburb.

I can receive an email from a previously unknown "supplier" in China hawking their ability to do Printed CircuitBoards at the highest quality and fastest turnaround possible.. you think "This is TOOOo good 2b true" Then..you follow up, do due dilligence.. even ask for CREDIT sight unseen, and then..GET exactly what they promised.. done and sent up front.. no money.. 30days.. it's all real, and true.

OH BUT WAIT.. our 'SERVICE' sector will save us.. absolute rubbish!

hmm ok.. maybe out MINING sector will save us? sure.. except that China has discovered massive deposits of various Ores in Tibet...Oh.. nowwwww we know why that long rail link was done ...right?

Ok..our EDUCATION export sector will save us? Yep.. we will educate foreign students who go back with their Computer science degrees and reasonable Aussie Accents to Bangalore and take more call centre or R&D jobs which operate via email and skype connections.

Then....when we kick up a fuss.. we get smacked around by "Human Rights" bodies who tell us our complaints are 'racist and xenophobic'.

Welcome....to the future.

That's a highly likely scenario, Boaz, in my view.

"The world is changing" is one of those massive clichés that we use without thinking, but - like most clichés - it has a hard core of truth.

I don't actually see the reduction in our horizons as too much of a problem though. We have a great climate, a massive land-mass with open spaces that our northern neighbours can only dream about. If our future is to be a holiday destination for the next few generations, then so be it. There's no shame in that.

We have after all brought it upon ourselves. You only need to compare the work ethic of our fellow citizens with those who are our business competitors, to see that we have become - in general - fat and lazy on the prosperity we have enjoyed for the last sixty years.

Others have in the meantime been slowly pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. It's their turn.

Access to computers is irrelevant. Even if we had them available, the people flocking to spend twelve hours a day, doing head-down bum-up research are unlikely to be Aussies.

They're all out surfing.

Forkes and other

Of course it's the government system, that has progressively defunded universities and prime research resources. That was my point!
The poor old CSIRO doesn't rate a mention for computing power. Why not? As our primary National research organization it should have a slew of High*er* end number crunching boxes. Strewth! Even Poland has *more* higher end boxes than us!
Some years back the CSIRO was changed from doing pure research to doing commercially based research. Universities were made so corporately sensitive that pure research to benefit Aussies has been neglected.

Even when unis come up with bright ideas they are 'partnership' funded, in effect cheap R&D for corps.
As I said, at some point the question has to be raised what happens to the NEW discoveries, they tend to be maximised off shore.
Like raw materials we get the cheap end of the market, The BIG profits finish up in the hands of others.

Commercialism of research only works if we have the cash to control it afterwards.

We as a nation put in the least amount of money into research...why? It doesn't win votes amongst the myopic self interested great unwashed or Corporations that unjustly influence our Govt. Both would rather cheap consumer nick nack toys that make profit and blame someone else for not having a country with a great independent future.

Well Pericles...for a welcome change I agree pretty much entirely with you on this bit at least:

//We have after all brought it upon ourselves. yada yada//

This is exactly why I was trying (in vain) to draw you (who has more first hand knowledge than some here) to the discussion of the UK economy.

The point you raised about Tourism is one, and sadly one of the few, bright spots on the economic horizon but I doubt it will mean much as European economies self destruct and the 'travel euro' becomes scarcer by the day.

Any country MUST have 'originating' income or value generation to offset the cost of it's imports.

-Dig stuff up and sell it. (Mining..Coal..Oil..Gas)
-High Tech manufacturing (where only a few boffins make the $$$ and the product is manufactured in China
-TOURISM..
-Education.

There isn't much else.. because all that we might be good at service wise will become increasingly off shore centred. We cannot rely in education export because there will be a voter backlash eventually.

'IT' is a dead loser.. Malaysia's Cyber Jaya India's Bangalore, and other emerging countries will eat us on that stuff.

I saw all this coming a decade ago Pericles which is why I have enough land to live off.

I am currently doing contract work with a company where it is transitioning as much as can be, to China..and I am watching the glazed eyed furrowed brows of those remaining workers.. specially after 3 were let go last week, who are wondering about the/their futures. (there are only 5 in the section) and the other sections.... electronic circuit board assembly..are in the process of being replaced by Chinese outsourcing..I don't know if they even know it yet.

Let's hope you are not driving through the Western Industrial suburbs of Melbourne when the poo hits the social fan.

We are like the Greeks.. fertility rate of 1.3..they are dying.. they just don't realize it yet.

Polycarp,
You spoiled it, you were almost reasonable untill you started
Please stick to the topic or go away.
You are intellect Black hole, lots goes in but only volatile crap comes out.

Interesting piece in Crikey by Noel Turnbull at RMIT, on the topic of "how others see us", gathered from various surveys.

"In summary, the findings are that we are pretty well-regarded around the world (except -- surprise, surprise -- in India, Indonesia, other parts of Asia and the Middle East) and that we are seen as a friendly, welcoming lot with a good lifestyle in a beautiful country but not very dynamic, innovative or clever. Australia is considered a great place to visit, in other words, but not too flash when it comes to the key components of modern, successful societies."

And...

"... we've launched an international tourism campaign that focuses on the fact that we are friendly, welcoming lot with a good lifestyle in a beautiful country, conveniently omitting any references to dynamism, innovation or being clever. The Opera House does get pictured, but the images are carefully focused on the exterior, and a group of amateur singers, to ensure that the campaign doesn’t inadvertently inform people that professional cultural events are held inside."

I guess, if we are a country that aspires to mediocrity, there's every chance we will achieve it.

However, the article does also throw a bit of cold water over the likelihood of a "tourist destination" future, which might be a bit of a problem.

"Australia’s fundamental tourist problem is that it is a long way from anywhere else and it takes time to get around when you get here. It’s also the sort of place you tend to see once..."

Keep digging that potato patch, Boaz.

I have read the posts on here with interest.
I was in a past life involved with what were then cutting edge machines.
So I read the BBC article with great interest.

However all the comments are "Business as Usual" era remarks.
In the future, it will probably be difficult to keep such m/cs
operating. We will be more interested, as AlGore is Rich said;
>whizz kids' but they can work a lathe or milling machine..
will be far more to the point.

We will be needing more people with agriculture knowledge and plant
genetics. Also many more farmers will be needed than we currently
have on the land.

We need to focus on what our needs will be in a time of depleting
energy and bringing back home all those jobs that mainly went to Asia.
We need starting now to refurbish the Tafe Colleges as one that I
know about has no electrical or electronic training course at all.

Forget all this high end futuristic science and get on with survival skills.

How many of these shock and awe reports are thinly disguised sales brochures for hardware and services?

All of the big consultancy firms for instance are continually producing surveys and profiles to prove that anything business or government might have is old hat and definitely not new wave.

A cold glass of water and learn to breathe, IBM and others will always have something to sell and it is always crucially urgent for 'change' to hardware and software.

I suspect that what we should be doing more of is blurring the differences between the sciences and engineering. We are held back more by the differences and problems in communication between disciplines than the lack of computers with brains as big as a planet.

Bazz..one thing I'm always thinking about is AquaCulture.

If a bloke has a bit of land...it's quite feasable. Using Singapore as an example.. even a back yard would work for that.

Examinator..is English your first language ?

Polycarp.

No, But logic, proportion and reasoning are clearly foreign to you.

Dear Examinator,

From my understanding, the current government
is attempting to upgrade Australia's computer
service with their current Broadband initiative.
As well as computers in every school.

Of course it will take time for the young to
develop their skills and hopefully be the
future creative computer generation. With
our current antiquated computer technology
it is no surprise that we don't have the
current capability to compete.

Unfortunately, the Opposition, under Tony Abbott,
seems determined to squash this, and other programmes
that benefit the Nation.

The Liberal Party wants to
channel the wealth of the country to the few, at
every one else's expense.

Foxy,
Most people will be disappointed with what they will get from the NBN.
There is a rude word I am trying to avoid to describe it.
The proponents are away with the fairies for almost all users.
I have a 1.5 Megabit service but generally it runs slower than that.
The speed from the ISP to me is very close to 1.5 megabits but the
otherside of the ISP and mostly at the remote computer is where the
delays occur.
Have you noticed the pauses in your reception of data ?
Thats what I am on about.

However in the last month there has been an announcement by Alcatel Lucent
that they have designed a system that will run over a 1KM twisted pair,
ie a standard land line at 100 Megbits.

The significance of this is that Telstras copper underground that
they were going to use fibre to the node will now be directly
competitive with NBNs fibre to the home.
In addition they will not have to install a power point in your home
to power the fibre terminal equipment.
Presumimg of course that Telstra decides use it

Dear Bazz,

We in Australia have always been backward
not willing to accept any new ideas, losing
many of our creative people to overseas
interests.

At least an attempt is being made in the right
direction and let us hope that the outcome will
be beneficial in some way no matter how long it
takes.

From past experience we can't expect miracles
overnight when there is a huge mental block
to overcome. But not to start anything will
never achieve anything either.

"Every journey of a thousand miles
begins with one step."
(Chinese Proverb).

Dear Examinator,

Are we still having a discussion,
or have you gone for a break?

How about some more input, after all
it is your thread!

Sorry Foxy, I cannot see the point you are making.
What I was saying is that the NBN after all the money has been spent
will have no greater capability over anything Telstra can provide if
Telstra uses the Alcatel-Lucent system over their copper.
Also for 99% of users the NBN will not provide an improved service.
In any case I am certain that Telstra will change to an all fibre
system over time anyway.
Most of the backbone around Australia is fibre anyway.
Frankly I think the government has been conned, yet again !